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Old 08-06-2012, 06:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #361
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

@ DerTollUdo

Life has a habit of getting in the way of living, 'tis true!

What was it you wanted changing on the Savant? I'll post up a revision to save you hassle if needs be.

@bobthe6th

Pretty sure the current one in our WIP link is the finished article, give or take a small amount. We've discussed power/balance almost endlessly and the way it reads now is the closest to agreement that we've managed so I think it's fair to say it's done. As long as DerTollUdo doesn't disagree, that is...?
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #362
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Yeah, to my knowledge Burst was finished unless someone things otherwise?
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #363
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Hmm, your post did the vanishing act on me vek lol.

Savant needs to have the part at the very start that says Loses: at the very beginning and then Benefit: for all the things they actually lose all upfront so that noone can misread it. Then state the benefits and the levels they are gotten similar to how it is now :). Also needs to state the change to TKFighting. Then make the change to the capstone part of the savant and ill update mine. Then, it should be finished...I think?

Last edited by DerTollUdo : 08-07-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #364
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

wow... just re read the class... and you people are amazing.

now the last thing this class needs? more feats. many, many more feats.

like a feats to switch the main score of the class to str, or dex, or hell even con.

a way to add elemental damage to force blasts, or even a special for unarmed to add some elemental damage onto the made weapons.

a way to mix in incarnum, say add hands or enhancement bonuses to weapons used with telikentic fighting.

or a way to mix in martial maneuvers... say a feat that lets you use one weapon with a strike.

stuff like that.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #365
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Heh, no worries Der, it's done it to me on more than a few occassions!

Bob! Hello there it's been a while since the creator checked his work eh, hehehe! We've been keeping it warm for you, shall do the Savant edit asap. Few more feats shall happen as I balance ideas and turn them into something coherant!
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #366
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

You should update the first post now/in the near future when we get these last few fixes in place. So are we all in agreement that this class is complete? Feats withstanding of course.


EDIT:
I actually got to it now. Check it over and see if I missed anything?

Last edited by DerTollUdo : 08-08-2012 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #367
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Edits look good to me, was there anything in particular you wanted me to check over?

Savant section is below, edited for ease of understanding

What happened to the feats section with the last edit btw? They're gone!?

TK SAVANT ACF
Spoiler


EDIT:
Maybe put a link to the Shadow Hand at end of main post too...it's a connected PrC after all.
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Last edited by Veklim : 08-17-2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: foolishly forgot something...tsk
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #368
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veklim View Post

What happened to the feats section with the last edit btw? They're gone!?
That got moved to post 147, linked at the start of post 146 in the class part labeled as extras, because that post is HUGE and breaking 50000 characters with those 3 sections in it.

I believe I will be making a section in post 147 for Prc/Epic Prc. Need to check spacing though. Might just do links to it...on that note would you grab me the link for whatever post the Shadow Hand is in? I figure you know where it is faster than me filtering backwards lol.

Also, in the near future I will look over you shadow hand in a greater detail for the sake of finishing that class for you :)
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:22 AM   Top  -  End  -  #369
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

The Shadow Hand, linked for your convenience!
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #370
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Ok, on smart-phone (grrrrrr) so only quick notes, but must write them now or I'll lose them to the mists of late-night professional exploitation for barely legal wage...argh

Idea, the first:
Crystalise Hand.
Functions like a psi-crystal in some respects and a crystaline formed Hand in others. Ruleset/Stats to come (when I have a proper keyboard and a screen which allows me to view the whole text window width, instead of 92% of it ). I swore once I would never make another table on my smart-phone...and I meant it!

Idea, the second:
"Elementary, my dear Watson!"
Choose one of the following, fire, cold, electricity or acid.
Whenever you use a Hand to add damage to an attack or an ability you use, that extra damage may be of the chosen type.
You may take this feat multiple times, choosing a different elemental damage each time.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:54 AM   Top  -  End  -  #371
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Feat idea,
Make lockdown shapeable.

Thoughts?

Additionally, my DM dislikes that lockdown is not "specific" enough. He thinks I should make it mention Dimensional Anchor, or at least the effects thereof.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:46 AM   Top  -  End  -  #372
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Suggested edit (in bold)

Quote:
At level 16 any area you Lockdown becomes so dense that it blocks Line of Effect (as if it were solid), but not Line of Sight, and behaves as if it were a psionic version of Dimensional Lock except where noted above. It also causes Teleportation and Teleportation-like effects to fail within the Lockdown, both those coming in and those going out.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:03 AM   Top  -  End  -  #373
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

what a beautiful class... im struck speechless.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:50 AM   Top  -  End  -  #374
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
what a beautiful class... im struck speechless.
Thankyou! I'm sure bobthe6th (original creator) and DerTollUdo (co-developer) would be similarly glad of the praise! This has been a mammoth project (check the date of bob's original posting!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
Feat idea,
Make lockdown shapeable.
Hrm, yes indeed... you thinking 1 additional Hand to shape into 5ft blocks? I'd say they all have to be touching though, it should be a single area, even if it's irregular in shape.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:02 AM   Top  -  End  -  #375
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

OK then, here we go, FEATS!

My idea:
Crystallise Hand
Spoiler


bob's idea:
"Elementary My Dear Watson!"
Spoiler


Der's idea:
Sculpted Lockdown
Spoiler


Always good to have a few more feats!
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Last edited by Veklim : 09-06-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:02 AM   Top  -  End  -  #376
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
Thankyou! I'm sure bobthe6th (original creator) and DerTollUdo (co-developer) would be similarly glad of the praise! This has been a mammoth project (check the date of bob's original posting!).
I am as always willing to soke up praise, but at this point 90% of the credit goes to the developers. They did the heavy lifting to make this class truly impressive.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:43 AM   Top  -  End  -  #377
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
what a beautiful class... im struck speechless.
Thank you! It has been a long time in the making but this class is alot of fun (I am currently playtesting one at extremely high power levels, up to 16 btw.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
OK then, here we go, FEATS!

My idea:
Crystallise Hand
Spoiler


bob's idea:
"Elementary My Dear Watson!"
Spoiler


Der's idea:
Sculpted Lockdown
Spoiler


Always good to have a few more feats!
Crystallize Hand: Sounds good, feels awkward. Any reason you limited the abilities it can channel? A psicrystal can become the origin point for all powers that arent personal...I will take a stab at rewording, and include all abilities. Let me know how this fits your idea:

Spoiler


How's that? Also, this ability makes it even harder to catch a TK. Your TK range effectively goes to 1 mile at that point, since that is the functioning range of a psicrystal I think...no book to check right now. Possibly make it limited to certain distance from you?

Elementary My Dear Watson!: Good concept, but feels lack luster. I mean most of the damage dealt is already d6 force, which is fantastic. And on those that dont deal force, well they dont really add die as much as numbers, so by wording they get no bonus. I also am a personal fan of including sonic to the standard list of elements as everything is immune to the others at some point. (In my current game, a bad guy was immune to all energy types, even esoteric ones like hellfire, except for positive. Probably because the DM didnt realize you could hurt people with it...and even most enemies are protected from the 4 basic ones.)

So in other words, this feat really just feels like you take it and change from force to a more common element. Nice idea, but needs something more...

Sculpted Lockdown: Yeah pretty much. Although a part of me doesnt like making people convert radius to individual cubes at the table. Feels like you need to have the volume of a sphere memorized. But I don't know how to simplify the calculation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
I am as always willing to soke up praise, but at this point 90% of the credit goes to the developers. They did the heavy lifting to make this class truly impressive.
Without your original work Bob, I wouldnt have had a chassis to make this class with. It all started with your idea :) I just made it look pretty for you, and added rocket launchers lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
Suggested edit (in bold)
The problem I have with that is that up until possibly now we have gone out of our way to build a class that doesnt need to reference any other material not in the class. All abilities function as standalone from books. Sure this makes some of them seem strong, since they are (as my DM says) "completely unique and nothing else really does them like that or as good." But I hate having to browse multiple sources for one class. It gets tiresome and time-consuming. So, I guess a better way to phrase that question is: should I create a specific list of things that the ability blocks (basically lift it from the spell) and add the line "as well as any similar effects"? Because it is really supposed to be the ability that says you dont get to leave...I infact actually locked down a 600ish swarm of beetles with this, it really is great at its job.

Last edited by DerTollUdo : 09-06-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:57 AM   Top  -  End  -  #378
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Hrm, yes. Lift the text from Dimensional Lock for it then, honestly I only put it like that to try and avoid overloading on the character-count, but we've moved the feats so it's probably alright.

Crystallise Hand was worded as it was because a standard psicrystal is limited to only touch-range powers for the equivalent ability, and I deliberately limited the new one to compensate for the power-hike of doing what it does. Your rewording is fine, but the reason for my wording was one of balance, if you reckon it's ok unchecked then go with your wording instead. I'm easy like that

The range issue is a good point, make it 100ft/level and I think it's ok. Considering you can only have one of these guys at a time, it still takes a fair bit of planning/skill/luck to use effectively all the time.

Quote:
I am as always willing to soke up praise, but at this point 90% of the credit goes to the developers. They did the heavy lifting to make this class truly impressive.
Quote:
Without your original work Bob, I wouldnt have had a chassis to make this class with. It all started with your idea :) I just made it look pretty for you, and added rocket launchers lol
Go team TK!
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My homebrews Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:13 AM   Top  -  End  -  #379
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
Spoiler
Alright, give me a minute, and I'll lift the text...I thought it was perfectly self explanatory before though lol. Stupid DMs and their wanting exactness :P

Perhaps I will add the touch part to TK Savant part then. As I had it confused with the higher level one lol. But at the same time, with my wording you must invest Hands in it before it can use them. And perhaps we should state that it may only use one ability, selected at the time you invest Hands, until it comes back and you change it?
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #380
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Hm, I like the thread, and I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, but do you have any ideas of ACFs to build a Pyrokineticist? I've a NPC for one of my campaigns that I want to give a nice statblock.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:52 AM   Top  -  End  -  #381
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

just give it "elementary, dear Watson" and refluff all the hand based abilities as fire based.

or, just use fire in place of force with a unarmed TK. it will be a mite weaker then a normal TK(no force damage), but an NPC probably won't notice.

thank you for your interest.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:55 AM   Top  -  End  -  #382
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Not as of yet no. Although I would not mind if you had ideas for how to make an ACF for this class. We love ideas! :) Give us a baseline of what you want it to be and we will work with you to make it fit our class.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:55 AM   Top  -  End  -  #383
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

bumping to make my last post appear
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:51 PM   Top  -  End  -  #384
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
Alright, give me a minute, and I'll lift the text...I thought it was perfectly self explanatory before though lol. Stupid DMs and their wanting exactness :P
Aye, a constant source of annoyance ...except half the time I AM that DM ...sudden moments of shock and awe at my own hypocrisy ...oh, they're gone again .

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
Perhaps I will add the touch part to TK Savant part then. As I had it confused with the higher level one lol. But at the same time, with my wording you must invest Hands in it before it can use them. And perhaps we should state that it may only use one ability, selected at the time you invest Hands, until it comes back and you change it?
That's actually covered in my wording, look:
You may deliver a Force Burst, Force Fling, Far Trick or Focused Shield through your Crystallised Hand, treating it as the centre of your TK range for all effects of that ability. To do so, you must have the Crystallised Hand within 5ft of you at the time you invested the Hands in the ability.
If you are a TK Savant, you may deliver any touch ranged Warp Reality ability in this same manner.


If that's not enough then I'd add this line after the first underlined bit:
'Once invested, these Hands are unusable until such time as the Crystallised Hand delivers the ability and returns to you. If the Crystallised Hand is destroyed, the Hands return immediately.'

Restricting it to burst, fling, far tricks and shields is part of the balancing act for the power-offset, since the TK possesses no touch range abilities!
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My homebrews Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
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Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

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Old 09-06-2012, 01:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #385
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

I feel like making it only use the ability once is...wasteful? I was trying to say in my wording that you invest Hands in the crystal then choose an ability. As long as you dont recall those Hands it can use that ability with the Hands you gave it. So you can make a wandering wall generator or blaster. Thoughts?

And yeah, I was basically saying I would revert the limitations to your wording lol.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #386
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

that does kinda shatter the action economy with a hammer though... and that is how the normal familiars touch casting works. But I can see reasons to make it a true investiture of hands.

How about you invest at a rate of 2 invested:1 effective, and if the hand dies you can't use any of those hands for a day?
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #387
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

It doesnt really break the action economy more than a normal psicrystal though. You can build them to be assassins with more melee ability than yourself...
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #388
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
It doesnt really break the action economy more than a normal psicrystal though. You can build them to be assassins with more melee ability than yourself...
that... both scares and intrigues me. do tell.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #389
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

By the rules psicrystals gain feats, a BAB, and stats. Through feats you can get the TWF tree, then get sneak attack, then get boosts in additional damage, then translate it into a diminutive assassin with a lot of attacks that deal a decent chunk of damage each hit. They can also channel your spells. They can be pretty scary if you make them so. So having them be able to basically use one of your abilities whenever they want, while diminishing your own power seems balanced. Sure you get an extra action effectively, but you also hinder your ability to freely use your Hands.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #390
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Hrm, leave it as my initial idea and present a second feat to allow a more permanent investiture for one particular power perhaps...?

It does enough as is, and once you hit the channel TK ability it's all gravy anyhow!
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