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Homebrew Design Roll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.

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Old 02-25-2012, 02:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #91
Kobold-Bard
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
ah... I already let it fondle a 60ft diameter for blindsight... now its grabing brains? but an interesting spin.

...
Irrelevant to my idea, but Touchsight sets a precedent for "seeing" with Telekinesis. Someone taking this class is just really good at it.

-----

As for my suggestion, it's not that much of a stretch. Rather than just developing psychokinesis they also developed telepathic abilities; I hate to use her as an example but she's the easiest one, so like Jean Grey.

The term Hands is just a way of identifying how much they can do at once, rather than being literal hands, right? So there's no need to say they're fondling people's brains (though you could say they were "reaching into people's minds" if you really needed a hand connection).

The obvious things to trade are the martial skill abilities, but they already have an ACF so I'm not sure if that works. Off the top of my head maybe their HD or BAB drops a level (to show they're not a dedicated warrior like a standard T would be) and they gain Telepathy with a range matching their telekinesis.

Give them a Detect Thoughts ability too somewhere. After that maybe something like Suggestion by maintaining a number of hands on a person, upgrading to Charm Person-Charm Monster-Dominate Person(-Dominate Monster) as they level up, each higher level requiring more Hands to maintain/the top one requiring lots of hands, but needing less as more powerful options (which need lots of Hands) become available.

Maybe it costs them Far Trick and/or Critical Thinking?

Just some ideas, I'm bad at homebrewing so I'm not saying they're necessarily good ones.
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #92
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

fixing broken page...
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #93
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Editor's note!!!
Mind's Eye isn't listed on the table at 5th level, needs amending.
Master of the Far Hand is listed as Master of the Unseen Hand on the table, need to choose one name and stick to it!

Also, Kobold-Bard, you may just possibly be a genius...

New ACF idea, I present to you...
The Mentalist.
Spoiler


What do you think peeps? (Bear in mind I have written this off the cuff at silly o'clock in the morning after a 14 hour shift, it may need some clarification!)
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Last edited by Veklim : 02-25-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:38 PM   Top  -  End  -  #94
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Ill check out that ACF later, as I dont have too much time now.

I will however say that I have new ideas and critiques from outside people who are too lame to get to this thread lol.

The setup as is doesn't lend itself to much replay as the class is always the same. To fix that we make it so at every level you gain on TK ability from the list. The list will include all that we have now plus anything else we can think of. He even had some suggestions for ideas, for example gravity manipulation. Obviously some will be trees that require the earlier ones. This makes it so you can play it however you feel and never havw to be the same guy twice.

He also pointed out that once you hit epic this class goes down fast...changing the lsst part of the capstone to multiply the number of hands you gain, from all sources, would bring to epic a very healthy power boost. I support that idea, as it allows you to do whatever you decide with enough power behind it to actually mater in epic.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #95
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

hmm...a special ability set could make sense. would let the class mix focus a bit...

and then the AFCs could be tied in as specials...
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #96
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

hrm...

Then we need to start identifying the base elements of the class, and deciding how to balance out the various ACFs we have already, plus any other ideas people may have, and create class feature choices.

First order of the day would be to figure out what of the class (except the hands mechanic itself) should be permanent. We also need to decide whether to make it an average BAB chassis with full BAB progression as a first level option or not. That would mean the 1st level choice would dictate if you're primarily combat or support. Other options can come off at tangents thereafter...
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #97
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

I think the basic power of the class should be simple telekinesis, with other options being the stuff you could with it.


and i could see doing a three class set, with low, average, and full BAB.

low would be pure telikenetisist, with lots of hands and mage like abilaties(the psi would be here...)

average would be a skill monkey, with some hands and rouge abilaties(hand o' vision and such...)

high would be combat, with fewer hands, but lots of options to build into combat(current TKF, hand boosted attacks, walls...)


thoughts? this is just an idea, if you guys see a better way...
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:00 AM   Top  -  End  -  #98
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

I say keep it at its current progessions. Just take all the special abilities except for Hands and pu them in a list. Split up the ones that scale into different abilities. Give them prereqs equal to what they have now. Turn the unarmed one into a special ability, and leave pure as an ACF. Replace the current prrqs by saying certain abilitys are unavailable.

Ill probably work a little on it sometime tonight or tomorrow morning if you just wanna see what I mean lol.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:09 PM   Top  -  End  -  #99
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Spoiler

Ok That edit has the table fixes should the class not change.

This one will have what the class would look like (at present) if it changed. Keep in mind, for this change to really matter, we would need more options.

Also, should we split up the scaling into multiple abilities and then give the class enough ability choices to chose them all or make it so even as is they have to chose? I'll just make the one for as is right now...with splitting up the abilities.
Also, I really feel like epic is going to have a problem as stands...so these edits will have a modified capstone please look over it.

Spoiler


Because this became a choice based class, I reordered the ability section to put them in alphabetical order. I also split up the current skills that progress into sub skills keeping the naming scheme from TK Fighting.

At present the rate that you gain TK Maneuvers makes little sense as all I did was give 1 point for every ability they gained in a given level. Also some of the abilities don't scale at a fixed rate...
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #100
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

OK, first off, the table/class as originally designed is finished, CELEBRATION COMMENCES!

Now that's out of the way, your idea for the ability options is a good one, but much of what is written down needs a serious tweak in one way or another, and I feel there should be some static bonii. Telekinetic Flight, Ghostly Hand and Focused Shield should all be permanent on the class list at certain levels (if we can space them out to perhaps 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc or every 3rd level maybe, that would be good. Then every other level you get a choice of one of the other abilities, the requirements will all have to reshuffle a bit because of this, but that's fine.

I think there's arguement for making Focused Shield a 2 tier ability, and all 2 tier abilities should probably use the [name], Improved [name] format. Keep the Least [name], Lesser [name], Improved [name], Greater [name] format for abilities with 4 tiers.

Doing it this way allows us to open up psi-like abilities from more disciplines as choices, although psychoportation, psychokinesis and telepathy are the only 3 I'd feel should be used (this guy shouldn't step on too many toes imo).

Bobthe6th mentioned using the 3 BAB progressions as a starting point for all options, I think this prototype rework may make sense as being an average progression to begin with, using ACFs for full and poor BAB progressions, then we would have the Pure TK using poor BAB, and the Combat TK as full BAB, the 'standard' class with average BAB is the battlefield control class with the most options. You would have to remove certain options from the list and make them replace options for the ACF, but it's the best/only way I can see of allowing a class to slide between poor, average and full BAB without completely ignoring balance altogether!

Regardless of what else happens though, I think bobthe6th should first take the finally finished class and table and pop them up top of the 1st post, then we can see what he thinks about us undoing everyone's hard work and rebuilding his brainchild with the new concept...
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Old 03-01-2012, 01:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #101
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

I stick with keeping BAB as it is.

The options that are here could also be reworked so that you get 1 ability every other level and they kept their normal progressions.

I say let's add more abilities. Or take what we have and improve it while adding more abilities.

I am not a fan of the telepathy at all. It isn't the feel of a Telekineticist. Psycoportation could be something I could see.

Examples of things that would I would want to see here:

Improve the Focused shield. Add shapeability, more area, add more damage, add some kind of other function perhaps.

Add something that manipulates gravity/air density. For example create singularities or repulsion fields. Or create the ability to increase the air density around you to simulate that of water (lots of fun penalties to through at people lol).

You already have TK, is it that far of a stretch to say you can mess with sound waves for sonic damage and stuff or increase/decrease the molecules movement speed for fire/cold damage. Maybe add that to the wall?

I really feel that we can do so much with the wall...

EDIT: Thoughts on capstone change?

Last edited by DerTollUdo : 03-01-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #102
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
I stick with keeping BAB as it is.
Hrmmm, fair enough. The idea of dropping to average or poor for the remaining ACFs is reasonable I guess. My idea was to use a poor BAB for the Pure TK, but give them faaaaar better direct TK damage and more hands. I also thought that just making you count as using twice as many hands as you are, essentially doubling the effective power and/or utility per hand, instead of doubling the actual number (we can make them gain Con SCORE extra hands instead of con bonus at a certain level) so the ACF wouldn't need to double all the numbers and they'd potentially GAIN utility over the current model....
We could also use average BAB for the ACF I made, I do realise you're not a fan...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
I am not a fan of the telepathy at all. It isn't the feel of a Telekineticist. Psycoportation could be something I could see.
...but others will be, and this is meant to be a class with options. I'm thinking I'll re-word it though, and give something akin to a psionic domain for this ACF, listing a granted power/ability augmentation and a list of powers gained for each of the psionic disciplines. That way you can choose to specialise in ANY of them, not just telepathy. I'll put that together for now, and post all discipline domains together in a day or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
The options that are here could also be reworked so that you get 1 ability every other level and they kept their normal progressions...I say let's add more abilities. Or take what we have and improve it while adding more abilities.
Yes, yes and yes. Thinking we should leave the domains seperate for now though. They feel more ACF than class option, and there's lots of other things we can do for class features. I'll see if I can compile a shortlist of the suggestions I've been given by my group, all of whom are kinda useless and refuse to come on here to help directly Bloody players...ruin all my fun...kill my npcs on a whim...fail to help brew stuff for their own benefit...grumble mumble groan...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
Improve the Focused shield. Add shapeability, more area, add more damage, add some kind of other function perhaps...mess with sound waves for sonic damage and stuff or increase/decrease the molecules movement speed for fire/cold damage. Maybe add that to the wall...I really feel that we can do so much with the wall...
This was a thought I had too, adding various elemental descriptors and add-on effects to the Focused Shield ability. I feel the basis of the Focused Shield is a core class ability, but all the upgrades and enhancements should be presented as options. That way everyone can make one, but no two Telekineticist shields are neccessarily entirely alike. Nice flavour to that, I like it at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
Add something that manipulates gravity/air density. For example create singularities or repulsion fields. Or create the ability to increase the air density around you to simulate that of water (lots of fun penalties to through at people lol).
This is all to do with battlefield control abilities, we can brainstorm some ideas on such and figure out progressions, sure. We need to aim for at least 3 options per level though, and of course allow people to take a bunch of early options instead if they should so wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
EDIT: Thoughts on capstone change?
I think the capstone should wait for the re-working. We can have a 'Capstone Enhancement' section for each ability tree, which comes into effect at level 20 as long as you took the whole ability tree (or enough to reach the Capstone Enhancement), that way each ability option lists the capstone, and negates the need to keep rewording/fiddling the capstone as we go. Also avoids marginalising any one option, anything can get better as long as you focused enough.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:51 PM   Top  -  End  -  #103
Emmerlaus
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

I know its not about the subject and that Im being a troll... but what does PEACH mean? I know its a fruit but I belive its not what this is about...

I tried to look on th net but didnt found out...
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:55 PM   Top  -  End  -  #104
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Please Examine And Critique Honestly

No worries dude, if more people asked, more people would know
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My homebrews Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #105
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

So with that being said, any PEACH? :)
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:34 AM   Top  -  End  -  #106
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Before I go further into things I have to ask the following.

1) Is the Endurance on the table just a leftover from an earlier version or is it still somehow relevant?
2) Telekinesis says that: "As a standard action he can perform a number of actions, referred to as 'hands', equal to 1/3 class levels (minimum 1) out to a range of 10ft/class level."
Would that mean that if I have 3 hands (level 9) I could initiate 3 bullrushes as a standard action? Or can you still only do one action, but (if possible) assign more hands to it?
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:41 AM   Top  -  End  -  #107
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

The 1st post hasn't been updated in a while, scroll up a few and you'll find the latest edit of the class in one of the spoilers above. It's right here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
Spoiler
The creator behind the class hasn't updated since his editors (DerTollUdo & myself) finished the last set of tweaks!

Some things may need more clarification, but it's a big idea!
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My homebrews Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
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Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

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Last edited by Veklim : 03-03-2012 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #108
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Okay, lets go:

Basics: A d8 and Full-BaB clash a bit in my opinion, but seem okay. After all, the Telekineticist isn't supposed to be in the thick of things but good at fighting.

Good Will-Save is usual for a class like this and I don't see any problems.

Skills: Since he has potential for stealth and usually works from afar I'd consider adding some of the following (bold is what i consider more important): Hide, Move silently, Open Lock, Spot. Also, there is a "making knots in a rope, example but no 'Use Rope'? For shame.

Proficiencies: seems to be in order

BIG QUESTION:
In a lot of the 'hand'-dependant abilities there are mentionings of "with a stndard action and such. Does this mean that you can only ever use one of those abilities at a time or can you combine them?

Example:
Quote:
Could a high level Telekineticist with say 8 hands, who moved and has a standard action left do the following:
- Throw one rock (Force blast)
- throw one force blast (force blast)
- open a door (Mental Strenght) [Or hold up a grate if that fits better]
- attack with the weapon one of the 'hand's is holding. (telekinetic fighting)
- Initiate a bullrush against an enemy (far trick)
with that one standard action?
(this is just 5 hands but you see where I am going)
Minor Question: Why are all those abilities Su? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be psi-like?

Telekinetic Hands:
The basis of the class. The revised number of hands works pretty well, giving you maybe 3 from the beginning and more later at a reasonable pace.

Mental Strenght:
This seems a bit weird. Why the fixation on 3 hands for different things? Why not make a baseline for 1 hand and then allow increases.
I could see the following:
"Each hand may move a mass of 50lb/lvl at a speed of 30' per round. For every increase of the weight that is to be moved, the maximum speed is reduced accordingly. Any resulting speed of less than 5'/rd means the object cannot be moved.
Example: Thomas, the third level Telekineticist has access to 4 hands and attempts to lift and transport the corpse of a large hill giant that his party has just slain. The hill giant weighs 600lb. One of Thomas' hands has a base capacity of 150lb at 30' at this point. this would allow him to move the hill giant at a speed of 5'/rd as the weight to move is 4 times the hand's base capability and as such he can only move it at quarter speed. In the same way, using 2 hands would allow him to pick up speed to 15'/rd and using all four would allow him to transport the giant at 30'/rd."
While a bit mathy, this is D&d so most players will have a pretty good grasp on basic math anyway.

Same could be done with the indefinite holding, by just making the basic indefinite weight for one hand 10lb/lvl. That would mean a bit less at first, but isn't that bad and is easier to apply to large numbers of hands (thinking of pure telekineticist mostly).

Force Blast:
Yikes, this can be monstrous.
First thing though, you only mention multiple targets... is it possible to attack one target multiple times (with as many hands as you have)?
If so, then the boulder-based form is too strong and the force-based form is okay.
Overall the difference in damage output between those two is a bit wide. I can see the appeal in the force-version's nauseating capability, but with Full BAB and a good Charisma modifier, you can still hit reliably and if you have a form of supply of big things, you can do near disintegrate level damage against multiple targets.
I am also not a fan of the 'one roll for all thing'. I can see where it might be helpful, but it can go terribly wrong on either side. A nat20 and suddenly all of them hit (they may not crit but they will hit), a string of bad rolls and you are virtually useless for severaly rounds.
Personally I'd say to either tone down the damage of the physical one or up the damage of the force based one to 1d4/lvl.
However, if you can attack one enemy multiple times, then I'd just say tone down the physiacl one's damage as its just insane.
One thing though: Can you throw willing creatures? Can you throw unwilling creatures if they fail a certain number of saves (even if its, 'needs to fail: a will save to notice the force gathering, a reflex save to dodge said force, a fort save to resist said force, only then can it be thrown)? It would be hilarious.
It would also be fun if you could apply more than one hand to a single throw allowing you to throw heavier stuff. So 25lb*hands/level.

Telekinetic Fighting:
Overall I like this version of it, though its still far less useful compared to blasts in earlier levels. Its definitely a good way to provide flanking for your allies.
Least:
Virtually useless at level 2 as you don't even threaten until level 3. If you can combine actions as I described in my BIG Question it becomes a bit better. The conmod duration is very prohibitive and if you are fighting at longer range you eat a lot of penalties, to the point where, at lower levels, you might actually have a negative attack modifier. Considering how attacks are limited between different weapons, I don't really think the -2 on attack is all that necessary. Maybe a -1.
Why not make it: As a standard action you may make a single attack with each weapon, but for every weapon you have more than one all attacks gain a cumulative -2 to their attack roll and a further -1 to their damage roll as you are forced to split your concentration between them. That would mechanically limit the usefulness of many weapons.
Lesser:
Now it becomes better, but considering that you still eat the penalties on the iteratives, it won't do much.
With my example above of cumulative penalties with greater weapon numbers it might be feasible to allow full attacks for all weapons here (or limit it to one iterative if you fear multiclassing)
The con-score limitation will most likely only apply rarely as a conscore of 14+ is nothing hard to aquire at this point and combat rarely lasts that long.
Improved:
The increase in attacks as it is now feels completely out of place as I don't think most Telekineticists would go into the feat intensive two weapon fighting tree.
Larger weapons are always fun and I expect people to start running around with colossal greatsword (or maybe riding on them as mental strenght only says you can't use it on yourself but nothing about using it on something that supports you).
In the vein of my alterante idea, i guess this would be a good point to reduce the muliweapon penalty to attack to a -1 i guess. (Mostly because by now range is so large that even with only a -1/10' you are already eating a lot of penalty at moderate range).
Greater:
I'd keep it as it is only I'd allow one attack per weapon without penalty.
Overall:
I know that my ideas make this ability a lot stronger than the total of some pure fighting classes, but its mostly due to the fact that as it stands now, its inferior to force blast in most ways.

Telekinetic Reach:
Absolutely necessary to make the Least fighting more useful.

Far trick:
I assume all of those go normally but without negative aspects:
Example: Grapple still needs touch attack, can't be tripped back on failure etc.
I am kinda sad that grappling comes so late but all of them are great.
A way to apply more hands (maybe a cumulative bonus of +2/hand or +chamod/2 per hand to checks [not attack rolls needed])
Otherwise this is one of the reasons why I found this class so interesting.

Mind's eye:
This (like the later telefighting abilities) creates another question within the BIG QUESTION. If I don't do anything else, could I use anything that requires a fullround action or less?
Example: I don't move (aside from 5ft step) and now i can get blindsight and force blast in the same round (since the latter only takes a standard). I move and I can still blast and mental strenght something but blindsight is closed to me.
On the actual ability itself. Blindsight is always awesome, especially at the extreme range this grants (especially pure telekineticists). What would stop this as its not hearing or telepathy based? The only thing I can come up with is antimagic, catapsi or similar.

Martial Skill:
Don't know how useful this would be, but its a minor bump, so its nice.

Telekinetic Flight:
Flight is always useful and the necessities for keeping it up are nicely paced.
One question though: If you keep up flying with hands, then land and 'retract' the hands, would you still be fatigued?

Focused Shield:
A pure Telekineticist can make himself immune to projectiles by level 12 (20'x20' area with walls and ceiling), earlier if the DM allows shields that go through the middle of a square (then its level 5).
Overall this is great, especially in dungeons if lost of enemies are coming towards you as you can just make staggered shields down a corridor to act like as a sluice like the big orange energy fields in the final battle of the phantom menace.
Especially useful against flying enemies with limited (average or lower) maneuverability as they might get rebuffed, now can't fly onwards and start falling.
The extra damage option is nice, but I don't think its going to be used often, except maybe in the dungeon example.

Critical Thinking:
See me throw colossal falchions. But more seriously, this is good, but in most cases the weapon option is dwarved damage wise by the 'Throw trees, boulders or cows' option.

Ghostly Hands:
What are coterminous planes? The only thing I can guess is that while on the material plane you can affect both ethereal and shadow, when on ethereal you can affect material and the same for being on shadow.
Otherwise, good increase in versatility, though I guess the force version of force blast would have affected ethereal beings before as well as its a force effect.

Disrupting Throw:
Useful, but since spellcasters at this point can cast defensively in their sleep it probably won't work more than once against them, still nice for other stuff though as its a nice instant battlefield control ability.

Master of the Far Hand:
Great Capstone.
You now laugh at attempts to restrict your actions.
Disrupting throw now means you better have combat reflexes and an okay dexterity. If so, enemies will absolutely hate you.
You're fast, and can reliably make enemies stumble so often each round its not even funny.
The last bit seems a bit out of place as its pretty much unimportant at this point.

--------------------------------------------
ACFs

Pure Telekineticist:
A bit worse early on as he doesn't get as many hands in the first few levels but great later on. Losing telekinetic fighting is sad, but as its written now, its not that great a loss honestly.

Unarmed Telekineticist:

Very Interesting, though the damage formula is weird. I guess you meant:
0.5*chamod*(hands+1). This would lead to chamod damage for one hand and each subsequent hand increasing that by half chamod.
This is probably the better heavy hitter. He doesn't need to carry around swords, is never truly disarmed and can split his attention at any point. (and there is no movement limit for the weapons as he can just dismiss them as a free action and rebuild them at the new point). And you get cumulative bonuses to attack with more hands.
Honestly, the loss of medium armor proficiency is a small price to pay for this upgrade.

-------------------------------------------

Miniature Boulder:
Interesting, but potentially gamebreaking. Everyone using these will take quickdraw if they can. Then in the first round of combat you suddenly have half a dozen or more heavy projectiles around you and wreak havoc.
If these were to be implemented they'd have to be pretty expensive to balance the ease with which they alleviate the ammo problem of the telekineticist.


Whew, thats it so far. I hope I didn't miss things. Well Wild talent maybe, buts thats just for psionic focus, which is generally unnecessary anyway as nothing you have expends it as far as I can see.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #109
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Thank you for posting your questions, I will get to them later when I get time lol.

Quick note, you cannot do multiple abilities if you don't have the actions. that is game breaking. All the abilities should state that they have an action requirement. If you have the action available you can use it, otherwise no.
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:42 PM   Top  -  End  -  #110
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Ah yes, but thats not what I meant.

Force Blast for example says that you can do as many blasts as you have hands.
Further, lets say you have 7 hands (all of which are currently unoccupied) and there are only 8 enemies.
You throw one force based blast at three of them (you are just trying to nauseate the most imposing ones).
Now you have 4 hands idling.

The ability you just used (force blast) has an action cost of a standard action.
Could you now occupy the idling 4 hands with other abilities that also cost a standard action or less?
Theoretically that shouldn't be that big a problem since its only a difference between blasting something or doing something else, you are still using the same hands.
So with the idling 4 hands you could try to initiate a mental strenght movement. That also costs a standard action to initiat iirc.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #111
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Firstly, NOOO!!!! You can't activate 2 different standard action abilities with the same standard action, that's called a baaaaad idea! You can split up your hands to different targets or focus multiple hands on one target with equal ease, but only with a single ability at once.

TK fighting excels with battlefield control within a group, force blast is for selfish combat more than group play. Depends on your immediate preference and the situation. Idea is, these guys can adapt their tactics to encompass group dynamics AND awkward encounters.

The multiple attacks at a single target should be clarified. When I originally editted the class, I made a few assumptions, most of which seemed right but a couple of things got lost in translation. The idea is this:
You can make multiple attacks with force blast, for each additional target you take a -2 penalty. If you attack a single target with 3 hands, and another target with 2, then you take a -2 penalty to the single attack roll, and apply that to both targets. The reason it's only 1 attack roll is because the idea is an all or nothing approach. The more you split up the attacks, the more likely you are to miss everything, this is absolutely fine considering you could potentially strike every enemy in a combat with a single standard action. This class isn't a melee build, it's not a blaster build, it's oddly somewhere between the two, and I believe the balance works OK. Clarification is needed though, certainly.

I've considered making feats which would allow a small amount of merging abilities (2 standard action abilities may be used as a full round action, two move actions become a standard, blah, blah, blah!). Not sure about balance, would have to look carefully at the numbers.

With regards to the (Su) thing, it's bang in line with soulknife, which is as close as WotC got to this type of 'specialist psion' class. It's not really imitating any one power, so psi-like isn't really appropriate. If you want some psi-like stuff, then gimme a few days, I'll be creating a series of ACF options for 'psionic discipline domains', the first of which is already done here:
The Mentalist:
Spoiler


Use rope is a silly omission, and perhaps hide, spot and open lock would be amusing, but I dunno....leave that to bobthe6th to decide methinks!

The idea of a +2/additional hand had crossed my mind already, but I'm afraid it may become FAR too much at later levels, for instance a PureTK deciding at level 12 that he'd like to grapple that dragon over there, and pinning it without breaking a sweat....

Thankyou for the PEACH though dude, stick around a while and we'll try and iron out the creases for you!
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #112
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Well, the big reason I asked about multiple abilities per action was that the Telekineticist is otherwise somewhat sad when confronted with few enemies.

Once you have more hands than enemies it becomes just a bit boring in my mind.
Lets say you have 5 hands and 5 enemies and you decide to use Far Trick. Assuming you don't have any hands currently occupied, you need to attack all of them with far trick or you waste ressources. Especially the pure Telekineticist could get that problem later on as usually theres only so many shields that are useful and you have a ton of hands, certainly more than there are usually enemies.
It also hinders Telekinetic Fighting. If you do anything else, the best you now can do with your weapons is move them into new flanking positions and if you fight with them, any idle hands you have in reserve for blasting are useless this round.

I guess the fact that the shields are a move action to create alleviates some of that problem but it still feels weirdly restrictive.

Of course, in the vein of the other abilities, you could impose yet another penalty if you use multiple abilities at once (the customary -2 on all rolls of all abilities for any ability more than one that you use with the same action).
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:40 AM   Top  -  End  -  #113
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Well, the big reason I asked about multiple abilities per action was that the Telekineticist is otherwise somewhat sad when confronted with few enemies.
You actually make a reasonable point with this, I'm so very wary of allowing multiple ability actions, but then again there's the duskblade...we're never gonna be that bad so maybe a change could happen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Of course, in the vein of the other abilities, you could impose yet another penalty if you use multiple abilities at once (the customary -2 on all rolls of all abilities for any ability more than one that you use with the same action).
Hrmmm...so Hands needs an adendum:
Whenever you take an action with your hands, as a full round action you may elect to use any other hand ability with an equal or shorter action time at a cumulative -2 penalty per extra action. For instance, Jimmy is a 12th level Telekineticist with 7 Hands, he chooses to use 3 of those hands to pick up weapons to aid in flanking with his friends (a standard action) and uses another 3 Hands to bullrush a closing pack of enemies (another standard action). He would have to make all attack and opposed rolls for each of these actions at an additional -2, because his attention is split between 2 different abilities. If he also wished to use his last hand to make a focused shield in this time, the penalties for multiple actions would increase to -4 to all rolls.

Something like that yeah? Made it a full round action because otherwise you'll have people using TK fighting, force blast and far trick in one standard action, then putting up focused shields and shifting weapon positions as a move action. That just seems like too much. Thinking about introducing a feat to drop far trick to a move action and focused shield to a swift action maybe con mod/day uses? We need a few feats to give a TK some options, otherwise they have only fighting style feats to chose from if they want any obvious effect on the class.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:58 AM   Top  -  End  -  #114
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Sure, thats okay.

Especially considering that once you have it, theshields are something extra anyway. If you are focusing on one thing with most hands, you still have the shield option in reserve if it doesn't work as long as you left some hands idling.

And considering that the telekinetic once he has shields won't move that much anyway, the fullround action is a good limitation and means a more tactical orientation.
If you want to do lots of different things, you best be somewhere where they can't backfire on you if they fail.

I like it.

While the idea of using feats to allow lesser action access to some abilities for a limited number of times is certainly good and could be a good feats investment, it would most likely be like the metamagic SLA feats a warlock can take. Situational useful, and nice to have on paper, but most often you probably won't need them.
By all means, write them up, especially anything needing a swift action. Or maybe you could make it a feat tree for action reduction. That could actually work even better and make it more interesting for players.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:32 AM   Top  -  End  -  #115
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
By all means, write them up, especially anything needing a swift action. Or maybe you could make it a feat tree for action reduction. That could actually work even better and make it more interesting for players.
That right there is a sweet and simple option, nice idea.

Telekinetic Focus
Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities; Mental Strength, Force Blast, Far Trick
Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.

I will have more later!

You need to keep prodding things at me, my half-brain is working now!
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #116
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

One thing I didn't put in my main post was something about mental strenght.

It seems to be sustainable. That means enemy creatures should probably get a will save each turn to resist the movement, especially considerung that "up" apparently is a viable direction to move them in.

Though I have to admit, most abilities make me think way too much of Elfen Lied. Then again, most here are not as brutal as the vectors in that show.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #117
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

It should read gets a save each turn, that's an accidental oversight on my behalf.

It really is VERY Elfen Lied isn't it? Took me a while to put my finger on what it reminded me of though! I toyed with suggesting the force blast be replaced for the unarmed TK ACF with a slashing damage for hands, but decided against it in the end because it would either be horrifically OP or just not good enough to be faking Elfen Lied, alas!

OK, here are the 3 feats then, nice little tree which can work equally well for Mental Strength, Force Blast or Far Trick, adding to your action economy and improving their use ever so slightly.

TK Focus
Requirements: Telekinetic Hands class feature, must chose one of the following abilities; Mental Strength, Force Blast, Far Trick
Benefit: You may use the chosen ability as a move action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability.

TK Specialisation
Requirements: TK Focus, Telekineticist level 4+
Benefits: The penalty taken when combining your TK Focus ability with another action as part of a full round action is reduced to -1, but only for the chosen ability. You may use extra hands with your TK Focus ability to gain a bonus to any damage and opposed rolls at a rate of +2/additional hand, these extra hands are considered used until the end of the action.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Focus

TK Supremacy
Requirements: TK Focus, TK Specialisation, Telekineticist level 12+
Benefits: The ability for which you have TK Specialisation and Focus is now considered a move action to use. You may use it as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. You may not do so more than once per round.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a new ability for which you have TK Specialisation.

See any particular troubles with that lot?
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #118
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

New ability suggestion:

Singularity(SU):
Spoiler


Thoughts?

Also, class retype with Hands addition for multiple actions, as that increases versatility, also I am just going to include the capstone modification that doubles the hands you gain from the class and feats as it really makes the capstone just shine :)

Spoiler


Also, subtle changes to Unarmed, more added to cap, Critical thinking tweaked, expanded on the Focused Shield, Modified TK Fighting to make it better as it was weak, added a line to strength and flight about resetting duration, changed the levels that you get the Far Tricks since some arrived really late..., amped force blast, put myself in the edit credits, added singularity to level 19 (thoughts on that?).

Also, will begin playtesting this class today. I will start at level 13 though, so I won't be able to speak on early game balance...
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #119
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

revamp added to the OP
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #120
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Sweet! Keep in mind, the one you put up has changes that I made without really asking the others, for example reword abilities and even added one and changed the capstone. I am clearly in favor of these, but do keep it in mind.
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