The absolute worst class of all time (you haven't seen this one before)

[Bogard]

Was browsing through the D&D Wiki and stumbled across this: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Uplift_...e_NPC_Class%29

Worst. Class. Ever. Not even an NPC deserves this.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hey... bonus feat. That's better than Commoner. Besides... that's what you get for trawling dandwiki...

[Acanous]

how is this worse than Truenamer?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Originally Posted by Acanous

how is this worse than Truenamer?

1/2 BAB, all three poor saves, and the only class ability is a bonus feat.

Granted, you need to hit level 20 to get the only really relevant class ability for the Truenamer, but being able to Gate in things without xp cost is pretty boss.

[Eldan]

Looks like its just not done and supposed to get more stuff. That said, I can't think of a way to make up for that.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Looks like its just not done and supposed to get more stuff. That said, I can't think of a way to make up for that.

See previous comment 'that's what you get for trawling dandwiki'...

[Bogard]

Originally Posted by Eldan

Looks like its just not done and supposed to get more stuff. That said, I can't think of a way to make up for that.

It says "Complete" at the top of the page.

Also, check out the stat blot: The Uplift gets a -1 to Will at first level. I've never seen a class get a negative value in their Saving Throws table.

He also gets only 1+Int Skill points/level and has only three class skills.

[gkathellar]

I don't understand. Why would anyone bother to make a class like this? Statting up commoners is already an exercise in vanity, but this is just obscene.

[Varil]

Even the "fluff" reasoning for the class doesn't make sense. If you REALLY wanted a "classless"...class...why not just use racial HD? For class skills use whatever the "uplifted" creature had before becoming human(oid). Bam. Done.

[Grim Reader]

Originally Posted by gkathellar

I don't understand. Why would anyone bother to make a class like this? Statting up commoners is already an exercise in vanity, but this is just obscene.

A long time ago, in the old WoTC forums, I remember us discussing the theoretical possibility of a 20th level commoner, and what kind of life could produce such a thing. And we were surprised to find that one of the more well-known characters of fantasy litterature were in fact best described as a 20th (or epic) level commoner...

[Varil]

Originally Posted by Grim Reader

A long time ago, in the old WoTC forums, I remember us discussing the theoretical possibility of a 20th level commoner, and what kind of life could produce such a thing. And we were surprised to find that one of the more well-known characters of fantasy litterature were in fact best described as a 20th (or epic) level commoner...

What character was this?

[sonofzeal]

Originally Posted by Varil

What character was this?

My guess is either Bilbo or Frodo or both. Either could be Commoners of at least mid level.

[Bogard]

^Not when Gandalf was only a 5th level wizard.

Someone needs to stat an optimized Uplift. I'm not even sure if that's possible.

[Myth]

Incarnum feats, the regional FR feat that adds some spells. Sell his soul for extra feats. Add things like martial study. Pay for Craft Contingent Spells and some armours of continous spells (Continous Divine Power perhaps?).

With some opt-fu I think this class can beat a straight Fighter or Monk 20.

[endoperez]

Originally Posted by Myth

Incarnum feats, the regional FR feat that adds some spells. Sell his soul for extra feats. Add things like martial study. Pay for Craft Contingent Spells and some armours of continous spells (Continous Divine Power perhaps?).

With some opt-fu I think this class can beat a straight Fighter or Monk 20.

It gains one bonus feat, and if you can get that without meeting the requisites, you might be able to get something good from there.


Also note how, under illiteracy, it's mention that the Uplifted can't even speak without spending 2 skill points... It knows languages, but I assume it just understands them, and can't speak. d3 hp per level also sucks.

[gkathellar]

Originally Posted by Grim Reader

A long time ago, in the old WoTC forums, I remember us discussing the theoretical possibility of a 20th level commoner, and what kind of life could produce such a thing. And we were surprised to find that one of the more well-known characters of fantasy litterature were in fact best described as a 20th (or epic) level commoner...

I don't buy it. Anything you could do with commoner 20 could be just as easily done with Fighter 5-8, and I can't think of a single character in fantasy fiction who I wouldn't prefer to stat up as a fighter, a rogue, or at least an expert.

Originally Posted by Myth

With some opt-fu I think this class can beat a straight Fighter or Monk 20.

It's well established that an Expert can do this, but only because UMD is so crazy broken.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

Hey... bonus feat. That's better than Commoner. Besides... that's what you get for trawling dandwiki...

I don't know that it is...It only gets a single skill point per level, and has a TERRIBLE skill list. Given the bonus feat is limited to what they had pre-uplift, it's not necessarily a win.

Originally Posted by Acanous

how is this worse than Truenamer?

Truenamer gets a lot of unfairly bad criticism. It ain't perfect, but you can ignore the truenaming mechanics entirely and the class crushes this one. It also crushes commoner and expert without even utilizing it's core ability.

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

1/2 BAB, all three poor saves, and the only class ability is a bonus feat.

Granted, you need to hit level 20 to get the only really relevant class ability for the Truenamer, but being able to Gate in things without xp cost is pretty boss.

Normal use of things such as Word of Nurturing and it's reversed cousin are relevant. Gate without xp cost is...a bit broken, but only comes up at 20, as you say. Truenamer should be ranked about tier 3. They can nuke, heal, buff and debuff effectively, but with limited utterance selection.

Also, D&D wiki is horrible.

Originally Posted by Bogard

^Not when Gandalf was only a 5th level wizard.

Someone needs to stat an optimized Uplift. I'm not even sure if that's possible.

Gandalf was not a 5th level wizard. Gandalf was a 20+ leveled Gish/demigod. Things you read at the Alexandrian should not be taken seriously without looking at the sources for yourself.

Originally Posted by Myth

Incarnum feats, the regional FR feat that adds some spells. Sell his soul for extra feats. Add things like martial study. Pay for Craft Contingent Spells and some armours of continous spells (Continous Divine Power perhaps?).

With some opt-fu I think this class can beat a straight Fighter or Monk 20.

Those are not normal animal/plant/whatever feats. So...he's not going to be able to use his bonus feat on them. This is pretty terrible.

[The Glyphstone]

Gandalf was not a 5th level wizard. Gandalf was a 20+ leveled Gish/demigod. Things you read at the Alexandrian should not be taken seriously without looking at the sources for yourself.

I thought Gandalf was a classless Solar with a Ring of Elemental Command (Fire).

[gkathellar]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I thought Gandalf was a classless Solar with a Ring of Elemental Command (Fire).

This, but he has a Geas forcing him to behave as a 5th-level wizard until he encounters an evil outsider.

[Ravens_cry]

Oh!
The Dandi Wiki,
It Will make you feel icky,
And your hands kind if sticky,
Ooh, They think they're so tricky,
Every Tom, Dick, and Ricky,
On the Dandi Wiki!

On the Dandi Wiki the pages are soiled,
Many good ideas have been spoiled,
With ludicrous crunch they are embroiled,
All common sense has been foiled,
But don't tell them or they'll get roiled,
On the Dandi Wiki!

Oh the Dandi Wiki ain't got no sense,
And not a shred of re-pen-tance,
There really is just no defence,
For all the crud that they dispense,
I hope this song don't cause offence,
On the Dandi Wiki!

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by The Glyphstone

I thought Gandalf was a classless Solar with a Ring of Elemental Command (Fire).

Also a reasonable representation. A 5th level wizard is frankly not. For a guy who doesn't use any buff spells and frequently engages in melee with a longsword...if he were 5th level, he'd have been stabbed a lot more.

[Alefiend]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

Truenamer should be ranked about tier 3. They can nuke, heal, buff and debuff effectively, but with limited utterance selection.

The Truenamer concept is tier 1 or 2 IMHO, depending on how broadly we define what can be done with access to the source code for the multiverse. As designed, I agree that the intent was probably tier 3. Oh how I wish the class actually worked.

Originally Posted by Bogard, et al.

Gandalf statting blah

On the bright side, if the fallacious argument for Gandalf being a 5th-level wizard hadn't been made, we likely would never have had E6, which is a great idea for play.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Alefiend

The Truenamer concept is tier 1 or 2 IMHO, depending on how broadly we define what can be done with access to the source code for the multiverse. As designed, I agree that the intent was probably tier 3. Oh how I wish the class actually worked.

The class works fine as written. I have built chars with this, and they performed admirably.

A medium op(read, not the sort of person who makes wizards with 6 int and no points in spellcraft) Truenamer functions just fine as T3, T4 at the worst. They can perform a lot of roles.

No, the weak point of the Truenamer class is the lack of variety. Very little was printed elsewhere for them(the only specific thing is a single organization), and thus, all truenamers tend to look pretty much alike. Each of them is both useful and flexible, but it's all basically the same build(ie, 20 levels of truenamer) and a lot of overlap on utterances chosen.

[CTrees]

Originally Posted by Alefiend

On the bright side, if the fallacious argument for Gandalf being a 5th-level wizard hadn't been made, we likely would never have had E6, which is a great idea for play.

Admittedly, 5th-ish level or lower (at least at the beginning) works a lot better for everyone else in the Fellowship. Gandalf? No.

[Dr.Epic]

This class is probably just something homebrewed and not meant to be balanced. I'm assuming anyone can just edit the site and add their own class. Shouldn't be too difficult to come up with something worse.

Also, how is that a class and not a race/template?

[Grim Reader]

Originally Posted by Varil

What character was this?

Originally Posted by sonofzeal

My guess is either Bilbo or Frodo or both. Either could be Commoners of at least mid level.

Originally Posted by gkathellar

I don't buy it. Anything you could do with commoner 20 could be just as easily done with Fighter 5-8, and I can't think of a single character in fantasy fiction who I wouldn't prefer to stat up as a fighter, a rogue, or at least an expert.

It was Rincewind.

The only heroic ability he ever shows is once in his career casting a cantrip. His entire life involves running away from things. And this would seem to fullfill all his criteria for dealing with something.

He starts out running away from robbers and footpads, moves up to running away from Trolls and Dragons. Then he runs away from a godlike Sourcerer, and chtuloid creatures from beynd spacetime. After that, he runs from the lord of hell. Towards the end of his career, we see him running from the beginning and end of worlds, and the rise and fall of species. And a lot of stuff in between.

This describes a level 1 to epic career quite well. A commoner who gets experience for running away from things describe him quite well, I think:)

[ORione]

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

Hey... bonus feat. That's better than Commoner.

Aren't commoners literate? They're certainly able to speak without spending skill points.

And speaking of skill points, this is the first class I've seen that gives an odd number.

[Tyndmyr]

Originally Posted by Grim Reader

It was Rincewind.

The only heroic ability he ever shows is once in his career casting a cantrip. His entire life involves running away from things. And this would seem to fullfill all his criteria for dealing with something.

He starts out running away from robbers and footpads, moves up to running away from Trolls and Dragons. Then he runs away from a godlike Sourcerer, and chtuloid creatures from beynd spacetime. After that, he runs from the lord of hell. Towards the end of his career, we see him running from the beginning and end of worlds, and the rise and fall of species. And a lot of stuff in between.

This describes a level 1 to epic career quite well. A commoner who gets experience for running away from things describe him quite well, I think:)

Heh. Well played. I'll point out that he had effectively an epic spell in his head as well, but yeah, I can certainly see him being statted as mostly commoner at least. He's fairly good at running away from things, and has a lack of other abilities of note.

[Madara]

My optimization of this class:
get killed by a vampire.
Become Vampire spawn.
You are the best Uplift(probably the only one) to walk the earth.

As for the fluff, I think we found a way for a cat to be beaten by a commoner...if it takes this class.

[Telonius]

Originally Posted by ORione

Aren't commoners literate? They're certainly able to speak without spending skill points.

They generally are literate. This poor class doesn't even qualify for chicken-infested.