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Old 01-06-2012, 06:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
TravelLog
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Default [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

The Dovahkiin


The Dovahkiin, ready to battle for the fate of Skyrim.

“You should have acted. They're already here. The Elder Scrolls told of their return. Their defeat, was merely a delay. From the time after Oblivion opened... When the sons of Skyrim, would spill their own blood... But no one wanted to believe... believe they would exist. And when the truth, finally dawned... it dawned in FIRE! But... there's one they fear... In their tongue he is Dovahkiin... DRAGONBORN!"
--Esbern, Of Death and Dragons


Ages ago, when the world was still young and the dragons held power, their rose among the most powerful of them one of incredible talent and ingenuity. His name was Paarthurnax. Over the centuries, Paarthurnax sought a way to reach new heights with his inherent abilities, and after much experimentation discovered a solution.

Words.

Words, you see, are much more than sounds. Words are pale shadows of forgotten names. Just as names have power, so too do words. Words can light fires in the minds of men and inspire them to new heights of greatest. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts and bring fears to life. Words, you see, are the foundation of reality.

And it was with this realization that Paarthurnax achieved greater power than any dragon before him. By combining his blood-given magics and his draconic essence, his soul, with the words of High Draconic, he found that he could shape the very fabric of the cosmos around him. All was within his power.

Men, beasts of unimaginable strength and guile, the very world itself.

All bent knee to his newfound might.

Words, you see, are the path to power.


GAME RULE INFORMATION
Dovahkiin have the following game statistics.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: Varies, see Path of the Dragonborn for details

TABLE: The Dovahkiin

LevelBase AttackFortRefWillSpecial
1st+1+2+0+1From the Blood of Dragons, Path of the Dragonborn, Dragon Shout (Unrelenting Force)
2nd+2+3+0+1Inspiring Hero, Intuitive Aptitude
3rd+3+3+1+2Dragon’s Bane
4th+4+4+1+2Path Advancement
5th+5+4+1+3Draconic Fortitude, Dragon Shout
6th+6/+1+5+2+3Resist Disease (Mundane)
7th+7/+2+5+2+3Indomitable Spirit, Poison Immunity (Mundane)
8th+8/+3+6+2+4Without Fear, Path Advancement
9th+9/+4+6+3+4On Dragon’s Wings
10th+10/+5+7+3+5Blessing of the Nine Divines, Dragon Shout
11th+11/+6/+1+7+3+5Detect Draconic Presence
12th+12/+7/+2+8+4+6Resist Disease (Magical), Path Advancement
13th+13/+8/+3+8+4+6 
14th+14/+9/+4+9+4+6Shared Resolve, Poison Immunity (Magical)
15th+15/+10/+5+9+5+7Thane, Dragon Shout
16th+16/+11/+6/+1+10+5+7Path Advancement
17th+17/+12/+7/+2+10+5+8Practiced Intonation
18th+18/+13/+8/+3+11+6+8Unstoppable Versatility
19th+19/+14/+9/+4+11+6+9Mastery of the Dragon’s Tongue
20th+20/+15/+10/+5+12+6+9Forbidden Shout, Hero of Legend, Path Advancement


CLASS SKILLS (4 + Int mod per level, x4 at 1st level)
A Dovahkiin class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Speak Language

Designer’s Note:
Spoiler


CLASS FEATURES

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dovahkiin gain proficiency with all simple weapons, and one martial weapon of their choice. They also gain proficiency with light armor, but not shields. Weapon and Armor proficiencies may change based on selection of Paths. However, all Dovahkiin start with this level of proficiency.


From the Blood of Dragons (Sp): All Dovahkiin are born with the blood of dragons (meaning they possess the Dragonblood subtype), and as such inherit talents beyond the ken of normal men. At 1st level, all Dovahkiin gain the use of a small handful of abilities, each relating to one of the three Paths (The Mage, The Warrior, and The Thief). First, Dovahkiin gain the use three cantrips of their choice and one first level spell (chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list), each of which may be used 1/day. Second, Dovahkiin gain the use of two 1st level martial maneuvers of their choosing from among any of the schools of the Nine Swords, each of which may be used 2/day. Finally, Dovahkiin gain Trapfinding, as the Rogue ability.

Special: These benefits are only gained if the character takes Dovahkiin as their first class level. If they do so, they may only take levels in the Dovahkiin class until they have taken at least 5 total levels of the class. At that point, they may multi-class out if they so desire.

In the Merethic Era, when Ysgramor first set foot on Tamriel, his people brought with them a faith that worshipped animal gods. Certain scholars believe these primitive people actually worshipped the divines as we know them, just in the form of these totem animals. They deified the hawk, wolf, snake, moth, owl, whale, bear, fox, and the dragon. Every now and then you can stumble across the broken stone totems in the farther reaches of Skyrim. Foremost among all animals was the dragon. And for good reason. Their power is beyond imagining.

--Torhal Bjorik, The Dragon War


Path of the Dragonborn: Because of their innate abilities, Dovahkiin are able to harness their dragon blood to gain unimaginable power. However, their powers are divided into three sections, or Paths, that the Dovahkiin must select between. In total, there are four stages to each Path (Novice, Initiate, Master, and Dragon). At 1st level, he selects a single Path to start his adventuring career with. At 4th level, and each four levels thereafter, he may choose to either advance a Path he has already chosen by one stage (from Novice to Initiate for example), or he may select a new Path, which he begins at the rank of Novice. The Paths are as follows:

The Warrior:
Spoiler


The Mage:
Spoiler


The Thief:
Spoiler



Dragon Shouts (Su): Because of their unique heritage, Dovahkiin can, through effort, gain the ability to speak the language of Dragons, using the tongue’s mystical powers to great effect. All Dovahkiin begin the game with Draconic as a known language. Beginning at 1st level, Dovahkiin are able to make use of Thu’um or Dragon Shouts. Shouts may be used a number of times per day equal to the total number of Dragon Shouts that the Dovahkiin knows. Thus a Dovahkiin who knows both Unrelenting Force and Ice Form may use two Shouts per day (using each once, or making use of a single Shout twice).

All Dovahkiin start with the ability to use the Unrelenting Force Shout, and at 5th, 10th and 15th levels may select new shouts to be learned from among those listed. Each Shout begins at its first stage of power, and increases in power based on the number of others Shouts the Dovahkiin knows, as follows:
  • If one (or zero) other Shout(s) is known, the Shout is at the Whisper stage.
  • If two other Shouts are known, each Shout is advanced to the Intonation stage.
  • If three other Shouts are known, each Shout is finally endowed with its true power, thus earning its name as a True Thu’um.

All Shouts function in areas of silence or where sound would not otherwise be possible. All Dragon Shouts are detailed in below, with the exception of Unrelenting Force, shown here.

Unrelenting Force:
Spoiler


Spread throughout Skyrim, in ancient dungeons, burial grounds, and other secluded places, there are walls. Black, ominous walls on which is written a script so old, so unknown, none who had encountered it could even begin its translation. In my heart, I came to know the truth: this was proof of the ancient dragon language! For what else could it possibly be? It only made sense that these walls were constructed by the ancient Nords, Nords who had lived in the time of the dragons, and out of fear or respect, had somehow learned and used the language of the ancient beasts.
--Hela Thrice-Versed, Dragon Language: Myth No More

Inspiring Hero (Ex): Even those without mystical inclinations can feel the power exuded by one of the Dovahkiin. As such, at 2nd level, all allies within 5 ft/level of the Dovahkiin gain a +1 moral bonus on attack and damage rolls. This bonus increases by 1 at 5th level, and every five levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). The Dovahkiin may not be counted as his own ally for purposes of this effect.


Intuitive Aptitude (Su): Much of the power of a Dovahkiin springs from their ability to excel at nearly any task put to them. By spending 10 minutes contemplating a particular task, the Dovahkiin may gain an insight bonus on their next attempted skill check equal to 1/4 Dovahkiin levels. After the check is made, the bonus ends, regardless of success or failure. This ability is usable 3/day.


Dragon’s Bane (Ex): A Dovahkiin, though possessed of their blood, is an enemy of dragon’s everywhere. Whenever they attack with a creature of draconic origin or blood, Dovahkiin gain a +2 competence bonus to Strength and Constitution for 5 rounds, and may make coup de grace attempts on such creatures as a free action once they are reduced below 0 hit points during that same time period. Attacking again resets the number of rounds remaining for this ability. The Dovahkiin is also immune to the Frightful Presence ability.


Draconic Fortitude (Ex): Because of the dragon’s blood flowing through his veins, a Dovahkiin becomes able to withstand incredible blows without injury. Dovahkiin gain DR equal to ½ their class level, rounded down based on their moral alignment. Thus a Good Dovahkiin gains DR/evil, while an Evil Dovahkiin gains DR/good. A neutral Dovahkiin may choose between either DR/good or DR/evil (once made, the decision may not be altered).


Resist Disease (Ex): Thanks to their incredible recuperative powers, the blood of a Dovahkiin actively resists all microbes introduced to the body. As a result, Dovahkiin of 6th level or higher are immune to mundane disease. At 12th level, this improves to become immunity to magical disease as well.


Indomitable Spirit (Ex): Hardened by battle, all Dovahkiin possess incredible mental resilience. If a Dovahkiin of 7th level or higher is is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails his saving throw, he can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. He gets only this one extra chance to succeed on his saving throw. This ability also works against a mind flayer's mind blast attack.


Poison Immunity (Ex): The resilience of a Dovahkiin’s body also renders them far less susceptible to toxins. As a result, Dovahkiin of 7th level or higher becomes immune to the effects of mundane poisons. At 14th level, this improves to become immunity to magically created or infused poisons as well.


Without Fear (Ex): Having long hardened themselves against the fright of confronting even dragons, a Dovahkiin of 8th level or higher may truly call themselves fearless. They are forevermore immune to all [fear] effects.


On Dragon’s Wings (Ex): Harnessing the power of their draconic blood, upon reaching 9th level, the Dovahkiin grows a pair of leathery wings, granting them a fly speed equal to twice their land speed at Average maneuverability. At 18th level, this becomes Good maneuverability.


Blessing of the Nine Divines (Su): Once per day, as an immediate action, the Dovahkiin may call on the blessing of the Nine Divines to aid or protect them. This ability negates any damage which the Dovahkiin might receive or have received over the course of one round. Alternatively, this ability may be used to negate any one spell used against them that would allow for spell resistance, forcing the caster to expend the slot to no result.


Detect Draconic Presence (Su): After spending years in battle against dragons, the Dovahkiin gains the ability to sense the general direction of draconic creatures within 1 mile by concentrating for thirty seconds. The ability lasts as long as the Dovahkiin spends a swift action each turn to maintain it.


Shared Resolve (Su): A Dovahkiin is one who fights back to back with his allies, never for a moment allowing them to come to harm. As a result, a Dovahkiin of 14th level or higher may, 1/day as an immediate action, allow an ally to use one of the Dovahkiin’s Base Saves in place of their own.


Thane: Upon reaching 15th level, word of the Dovahkiin’s exploits has spread far and wide. As a result, they receive a Cohort of their level -2 to journey with them and share their burden.


Practiced Intonation: Slowly, a Dovahkiin gains greater ability with his Shouts. At 17th level Dovahkiin become able to alter their Shouts using techniques typically reserved for magic. 3/day, a Dovahkiin may alter a Shout with the metamagic feat of his choosing, that he possesses, as long as it could workably apply (i.e. Persistent Spell cannot be applied to Unrelenting Force). As part of this ability, the Dovahkiin also gains a Metamagic feat of his choosing, though he must meet any prerequisites.


Unstoppable Versatility: Because of his incredible inherent abilities, a Dovahkiin of 18th level gains a powerful ability relating to each of the Paths he has chosen that he has taken to the level of Dragon. If he has taken the Path of the Mage to Dragon, the Dovahkiin gains a 9th level spell. If he has taken the Path of the Warrior to Dragon, a 9th level maneuver (whose prerequisites he must meet). And if he has taken the Path of the Thief to Dragon, he gains 3 Inspiration Points which he may use as a Factotum of 11th level might, which refresh each day.


Mastery of the Dragon’s Tongue: A Dovahkiin of 19th level is a being of unimaginable power and skill. Having at last gained a full understanding of the Draconic language, the Dovahkiin is able to change his Shouts known at the beginning of each day by spending 15 minutes in linguistic contemplation.


Forbidden Shout: A Dovahkiin of 20th level has found his way to some of the darkest secrets of Dragonkind. He gains the use of a single Forbidden Shout from the list below. Unlike his other Shouts, however, it may not changed through the use of his Mastery of the Dragon's Tongue ability. Thus, the choice cannot be altered once made. A Forbidden Shout is usable 1/day and does not contribute additional uses to other Shouts.


Hero of Legend: At 20th level, a Dovahkiin has transcended his normal mortal state. He is now more than a man, he is a name, an idea, a legend. Whenever the Dovahkiin would be killed, his body instead vanishes in an enormous gout of flame dealing 10d6 Fire damage to all creatures within 10 feet. One week later, the Dovahkiin is revived at the same location in which he “died” at full health, with his memory intact. This ability takes effect even in areas of anti-magic or Dead Magic and does not cause level loss.

Change Log:
Spoiler
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Last edited by TravelLog : 01-09-2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:55 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
TravelLog
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons!!!

Dragon Shouts


Animal Allegiance:
Spoiler


Aura Whisper:
Spoiler


Become Ethereal:
Spoiler


Call Dragon:
Spoiler


Call of Valor:
Spoiler


Clear Skies:
Spoiler


Disarm:
Spoiler


Dismay:
Spoiler


Dragonrend:
Spoiler


Elemental Fury:
Spoiler


Fire Breath:
Spoiler


Frost Breath:
Spoiler


Ice Form:
Spoiler


Kyne’s Peace:
Spoiler


Marked for Death:
Spoiler


Slow Time:
Spoiler


Storm Call:
Spoiler


Throw Voice:
Spoiler


Unrelenting Force:
Spoiler


Whirlwind Sprint:
Spoiler



Forbidden Shouts

Meteor Swarm:
Spoiler


Return to Nirn:
Spoiler


Resurrect Dead:
Spoiler


Summon Fog:
Spoiler


Summon Spectral Clone:
Spoiler


Designer's Note: These Shouts are based on those not available to the Player Character.
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Last edited by TravelLog : 01-13-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
NeoSeraphi
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons!!!

I'm torn. On the one hand, the premise of this class is awesome, and you executed it perfectly. On the other hand...dead levels.

Worse, 3 dead levels in a row! The wizards are getting 9th level spells, the initiators are getting 9th level maneuvers, the manifesters are getting 9th level powers and you...get nothing.

Also, you have Listen, but not Spot. I know it's on the Mage's skill list, but seriously. That should be a general one, if Listen is. It would be like giving him Hide, but not Move Silently, or Climb, but not Jump or Swim.

From the Blood of Dragons: Needs the (Sp) tag, but more importantly, needs a spell list. You say "cantrips", so I assume you're choosing arcane spells, but from what list? Sor/Wiz? Dread Necro? Hexblade? Bard?

You also didn't state any prerequisites for the martial maneuvers. As written, a first level dragonborn could grab Time Stands Still and White Raven's Charge at 1st level.

Finally, getting Trapfinding is a slap in the face when you don't have Disable Device or Search as a class skill. Seriously. I know the Thief class gets DD and Warrior gets Search, but since this From Blood of Dragons feature seems to be independent of the paths (from what I can tell, you get all three at 1st level, regardless of the path you chose), then it's just bad.

And that's another thing. Why does the warrior get Search, but not the Thief? Are you intending to stretch the Thief thin, and force a dragonborn who wants to play a rogue-like character to take Warrior at least once just so he can use the most basic of basic rogue abilities effectively? That just seems...bad. Sorry man, I'm trying to be nice here, but this doesn't make sense to me.

Paths (Thief): Hide in Plain Sight, in any environment, at level 4? Geez...well, if you think that's balanced. The other abilities look nice, though I would definitely change your wording on Poison Use to say "a weapon" instead of "a blade". As written now, you still poison yourself when attempting to poison an arrow, which shouldn't be happening. Also, Search needs to be a class skill here.

Mage: This looks fine, though I would start them off with Scribe Scroll, because why not, right?

Warrior: Noooooo! You cut off at the best part! How does the Warrior get strength beyond any man? TELL ME! Damnit! I hate cliffhangers. Anyway, this looks good, though you need to put some restrictions on the initiator level cap for stances you gain (there isn't one, as written, so RAW you can gain any stance every time you advance, rather than one you would qualify for as a warblade of your level -2)

Shouts: Interesting mechanic. Well made. I like it.

Inspiring Hero: One little quibble, this will probably really make the bard feel useless, but if there is no bard in the party, it's pretty good.

Intuitive Aptitude: It's arguably better than taking 10, but since you can't use it while taking 10 (since there is a relevant modifier that would disappear on your first attempt) I don't see the problem. Decent tradeoff.

Dragon's Bane: This is vague, and vague is not good in D&D. (Vagueness is why Ironheart Surge gets ToB banned at tables). You need to state exactly what qualifies as "engagement" for this class feature.
Draconic Fortitude: Wait wait, so your own alignment is what damages you? You're super immune to evil, but a holy source harms you, if you're a good creature? Based on how alignment spells like unholy blight work, this is very unsupported. I think this should be reversed. The DR being penetrated by the opposite alignment isn't signifying that you're weak to that alignment, it's showing how resistant you are to your own. As written here, you're weak to your own alignment which just doesn't make any sense.

Resist Disease: Sure, why not.

Poison Immunity: Druid gets the 14th level ability at level 9, so yeah, I can see this being balanced.

Without Fear: Er....alright. One big pile of immunities, but okay...

Indomitable Spirit: Okay, this ability is useful.

On Dragon's Wings: This is actually generally based on the Size of a creature (larger creatures get triple their land speed when they have wings, at least, with dragons). I guess that would be kind of unfair to include in a class feature though. This is useful. Extraordinary flight always is.

Blessing of the Nine Divines: Again, this is a little vague. You should instead grant yourself immunity to one spell that must overcome spell resistance, similar to a magic immunity of a golem. After all, you can't ignore a spell "that was cast against you" if that spell were, say, summon monster IX, you know. Or even major image.

Detect Draconic Presence: Is this automatic, like scent, or is it something the dragonborn has to concentrate on?

Hero of Legend: Phoenix ability. Nice. You should add that it doesn't cause level loss. But what happens if, when he was going to be revived, the spot where he died was encased in an antimagic field?
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:11 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
TravelLog
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
I'm torn. On the one hand, the premise of this class is awesome, and you executed it perfectly. On the other hand...dead levels.

Worse, 3 dead levels in a row! The wizards are getting 9th level spells, the initiators are getting 9th level maneuvers, the manifesters are getting 9th level powers and you...get nothing.
I agree with you, but I hit a dead spot and was having trouble thinking of something. I'm working on it. Suggestions always welcome though.

Quote:
Also, you have Listen, but not Spot. I know it's on the Mage's skill list, but seriously. That should be a general one, if Listen is. It would be like giving him Hide, but not Move Silently, or Climb, but not Jump or Swim.
Fixed.

Quote:
From the Blood of Dragons: Needs the (Sp) tag, but more importantly, needs a spell list. You say "cantrips", so I assume you're choosing arcane spells, but from what list? Sor/Wiz? Dread Necro? Hexblade? Bard?

You also didn't state any prerequisites for the martial maneuvers. As written, a first level dragonborn could grab Time Stands Still and White Raven's Charge at 1st level.

Finally, getting Trapfinding is a slap in the face when you don't have Disable Device or Search as a class skill. Seriously. I know the Thief class gets DD and Warrior gets Search, but since this From Blood of Dragons feature seems to be independent of the paths (from what I can tell, you get all three at 1st level, regardless of the path you chose), then it's just bad.

And that's another thing. Why does the warrior get Search, but not the Thief? Are you intending to stretch the Thief thin, and force a dragonborn who wants to play a rogue-like character to take Warrior at least once just so he can use the most basic of basic rogue abilities effectively? That just seems...bad. Sorry man, I'm trying to be nice here, but this doesn't make sense to me.
Spell-like tag and spell-list clarification added and note about maneuvers. As for trap finding, I toyed with giving Sneak Attack dice, but I didn't like that so put in trap finding.

The search skill for Warrior was an oversight. That's what I get for working on this during classes.

Also, you only pick one at first level. You don't get all of them. I added clarification

Quote:
Paths (Thief): Hide in Plain Sight, in any environment, at level 4? Geez...well, if you think that's balanced. The other abilities look nice, though I would definitely change your wording on Poison Use to say "a weapon" instead of "a blade". As written now, you still poison yourself when attempting to poison an arrow, which shouldn't be happening. Also, Search needs to be a class skill here.
That was supposed to be a bonus on Hide checks, which grows, then becomes Hide in Plain Sight at Master. Fixed.

And fixed.

Quote:
Mage: This looks fine, though I would start them off with Scribe Scroll, because why not, right?
Why not.

Quote:
Warrior: Noooooo! You cut off at the best part! How does the Warrior get strength beyond any man? TELL ME! Damnit! I hate cliffhangers. Anyway, this looks good, though you need to put some restrictions on the initiator level cap for stances you gain (there isn't one, as written, so RAW you can gain any stance every time you advance, rather than one you would qualify for as a warblade of your level -2)
Added. And fixed.

Quote:
Shouts: Interesting mechanic. Well made. I like it.
Thank you. I rather like it.

Quote:
Inspiring Hero: One little quibble, this will probably really make the bard feel useless, but if there is no bard in the party, it's pretty good.
Reasonable, but it feels right. If you have an alternate suggestion I'd happily entertain it.

Quote:
Dragon's Bane: This is vague, and vague is not good in D&D. (Vagueness is why Ironheart Surge gets ToB banned at tables). You need to state exactly what qualifies as "engagement" for this class feature.
Fixed. Oh Iron Heart Surge, you have taught us much.

Quote:
Draconic Fortitude: Wait wait, so your own alignment is what damages you? You're super immune to evil, but a holy source harms you, if you're a good creature? Based on how alignment spells like unholy blight work, this is very unsupported. I think this should be reversed. The DR being penetrated by the opposite alignment isn't signifying that you're weak to that alignment, it's showing how resistant you are to your own. As written here, you're weak to your own alignment which just doesn't make any sense.
It was indeed supposed to be reversed.

Quote:
Poison Immunity: Druid gets the 14th level ability at level 9, so yeah, I can see this being balanced.
Can't tell if sarcasm or serious. Please advise.

Quote:
Without Fear: Er....alright. One big pile of immunities, but okay...
In fairness, Fear is neither the most powerful nor the most common type of Mind-Affecting effect player's are faced with.

Quote:
On Dragon's Wings: This is actually generally based on the Size of a creature (larger creatures get triple their land speed when they have wings, at least, with dragons). I guess that would be kind of unfair to include in a class feature though. This is useful. Extraordinary flight always is.
I love (Ex) flight. Yes I do.

Quote:
Blessing of the Nine Divines: Again, this is a little vague. You should instead grant yourself immunity to one spell that must overcome spell resistance, similar to a magic immunity of a golem. After all, you can't ignore a spell "that was cast against you" if that spell were, say, summon monster IX, you know. Or even major image.
Good point. Fixed.

Quote:
Detect Draconic Presence: Is this automatic, like scent, or is it something the dragonborn has to concentrate on?
Concentrated on. I made a note of it.

Quote:
Hero of Legend: Phoenix ability. Nice. You should add that it doesn't cause level loss. But what happens if, when he was going to be revived, the spot where he died was encased in an antimagic field?
Hadn't thought of that bit. I'll add a clause for it.

Thanks for the PEACH!
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Last edited by TravelLog : 01-06-2012 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
NeoSeraphi
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
Can't tell if sarcasm or serious. Please advise.
I'm quite serious. If druids can have complete immunity to poisons at level 9, there's no reason you can't have immunity to mundane at level 7 and full immunity at level 14.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

Excellent. Just need to figure out a feature or two for levels 17-19. Then it's time for Dragon Shouts.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:24 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

Does Practiced Intonation require the dragonborn to have the Metamagic feat he uses?

Unstoppable Versatility- You should probably attach a recharge clarification for the Inspiration Points. Looks really good though.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Does Practiced Intonation require the dragonborn to have the Metamagic feat he uses?

Unstoppable Versatility- You should probably attach a recharge clarification for the Inspiration Points. Looks really good though.
1) Yes. Otherwise wouldn't it be OP?

2) Added.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
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1) Yes. Otherwise wouldn't it be OP?
That's a thin line.

On the one hand, if a dragonborn takes Mage all the way to Dragon, then of course he'll probably pick up a metamagic feat or two. And this feature only serves to give him more ways to use his metamagic feats, in a flavorful and very helpful manner.

On the other hand, if a dragonborn takes Warrior or Thief all the way to Dragon, dipping in the other, and never touching Mage, then you are requiring him to spend a feat slot on an otherwise useless feat simply to enjoy the benefits of his class feature! That is broken, and not the "Incantatrix" broken either. It's "Truenamer DC scales higher than your skill check does" broken.

Edit: My suggestion? Grant him his choice of a metamagic feat as a bonus feat as part of the class feature. It's not too powerful, especially if he's not a Mage, but it saves the feature from just being a slap in the face to the player.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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That's a thin line.

On the one hand, if a dragonborn takes Mage all the way to Dragon, then of course he'll probably pick up a metamagic feat or two. And this feature only serves to give him more ways to use his metamagic feats, in a flavorful and very helpful manner.

On the other hand, if a dragonborn takes Warrior or Thief all the way to Dragon, dipping in the other, and never touching Mage, then you are requiring him to spend a feat slot on an otherwise useless feat simply to enjoy the benefits of his class feature! That is broken, and not the "Incantatrix" broken either. It's "Truenamer DC scales higher than your skill check does" broken.

Edit: My suggestion? Grant him his choice of a metamagic feat as a bonus feat as part of the class feature. It's not too powerful, especially if he's not a Mage, but it saves the feature from just being a slap in the face to the player.
Good idea. It's done. I also added Animal Allegiance and Aura Whisper.

Edit: Also added Become Ethereal and Call Dragon and the Forbidden Shout class feature.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:52 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

Added five more Shouts. 200+ views and only one commenter? Come on people! This is the Dragonborn!
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

"From the blood of the dragons" doesn't grant the dragon-blooded subtype
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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"From the blood of the dragons" doesn't grant the dragon-blooded subtype
You are correct. Fixed. And added three more Dragon Shouts.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

I'm going to be adding more Shouts today. And 400 views but only two people have commented?

Please PEACH! Even if only to say you like it or hate.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:42 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

I was sure I posted, but let's try this again.

Well, I like it. You did the shouts pretty well, I like the system for choosing your path as a concept, even if the details need a little fleshing out, and overall it's pretty decent. I'm not sure how I feel about the wings, but eh, that's not a huge deal.
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

Added opening Fluff, and more Shouts.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

I gotta warn you, I really like the concept of the class (though I haven't played enough Skyrim to know how accurate your renditions of all the lore and mechanics are), and I see a LOT of potential for it, but I disagree with some of your design decisions. So, this may come across as a bit harsh, but I only want to help you make a better class.

Let's begin!


Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
Hit Die: Varies, see Path of the Dragonborn for details
Having a set HD definitely isn't a sacred cow, but as you'll read later on, I think you'd be better served focusing this class on the fact that it is Dragonborn and that it uses Draconic Shouts, rather than the various Paths set out. As such, I think something like... d8 for HD and probably a Constitution focus on mechanics would work best.

Quote:
CLASS SKILLS (4 + Int mod per level, x4 at 1st level)
A Dovahkiin class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Speak Language

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If you really want to emulate the open-endedness of the Elder Scrolls series, then I'd go with all skills as class skills. Then 4 + Int skill points per level is still fine.

Quote:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dovahkiin gain proficiency with all simple weapons, and one martial weapon of their choice. They also gain proficiency with light armor, but not shields. Weapon and Armor proficiencies may change based on selection of Paths. However, all Dovahkiin start with this level of proficiency.
Again, I disagree with the implementation of Paths. As far as I know all characters in Skyrim, including pure spellcasters, are "proficient" with all equipment, which is to say that they can pick up and wield/wear anything without trouble. So, I can't say that I see a problem with the Dovahkiin being proficient with all simple/martial weapons, all armor, and with shields (probably without Tower, because I don't think those exist in Elder Scrolls).

Quote:
Path of the Dragonborn: Because of their innate abilities, Dovahkiin are able to harness their dragon blood to gain unimaginable power. However, their powers are divided into three sections, or Paths, that the Dovahkiin must select between. In total, there are four stages to each Path (Novice, Initiate, Master, and Dragon). At 1st level, he selects a single Path to start his adventuring career with. At 4th level, and each four levels thereafter, he may choose to either advance a Path he has already chosen by one stage (from Novice to Initiate for example), or he may select a new Path, which he begins at the rank of Novice. The Paths are as follows:
Now, here are my problems with Path of the Dragonborn:

1) It doesn't do a very good job of emulating the open-ended nature of Elder Scrolls.

2) It's very derivative in that it uses the mechanics of existing classes to create the majority of the Dovahkiin's power.
2a) The majority of the Dovahkiin's power, in my opinion, should revolve around his unique power set: Dragon Shouts. In fact, this is actually my major gripe. The choice of Path is the Dovahkiin's most important choice and has a profound impact on the playstyle and power of the resulting character. The raison d'etre of the Dovahkiin, it's Shouts, take a back seat to the Paths, and that doesn't feel right.
3) It also creates inherent imbalances, not only between each Path, but between the Dovahkiin and existing classes. The Dovahkiin warrior is almost certainly more powerful and versatile than a Warblade, despite the stunted maneuvers progression. The Dovahkiin Mage is a full caster without 9th level spells but with lots of awesome stuff. The Dovahkiin Thief is the red-headed stepchild of the Paths, weaker than the other two, and yet probably reasonably well-balanced against existing classes.

If you're more concerned with emulating the Elder Scrolls experience, then you should probably include a pool of Magicka with the class and use Talents (at every level, or every even level) with skill-based prerequisites to round out the Dovahkiin's abilities.

If you're more concerned with creating a dragonslayer that uses Dragon Shouts as his power source, which I personally feel you should be more concerned about, then all of this focus on Warrior/Mage/Thief should be tossed to the wayside. Focus all your efforts of making the Dragon Shouts as awesome as possible, so that the resulting character's playstyle and power level depends more on his choice of Shouts and how he uses them, than anything else. That's my advice.

Quote:
Dragon Shouts (Su): Because of their unique heritage, Dovahkiin can, through effort, gain the ability to speak the language of Dragons, using the tongue’s mystical powers to great effect. All Dovahkiin begin the game with Draconic as a known language. Beginning at 1st level, Dovahkiin are able to make use of Thu’um or Dragon Shouts. Shouts may be used a number of times per day equal to the total number of Dragon Shouts that the Dovahkiin knows. Thus a Dovahkiin who knows both Unrelenting Force and Ice Form may use two Shouts per day (using each once, or making use of a single Shout twice).

All Dovahkiin start with the ability to use the Unrelenting Force Shout, and at 5th, 10th and 15th levels may select new shouts to be learned from among those listed.
In my opinion, the Dovahkiin doesn't know nearly enough Dragon Shouts and he can't use them nearly often enough. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your intention behind the class (but see above for my suggestions for other mechanics if I am). For a class whose claim to fame is slaying dragons and using their language as his primary source of power, he doesn't seem to get enough bang for his buck.

I won't comment on the stages of power mechanics yet, because if you were to change the way they acquired Shouts and how many uses per day they had, then those mechanics probably should no longer apply.

Quote:
Unrelenting Force
However, I have played enough Skyrim to know that Unrelenting Force's ability to deal damage is rather trivial. The point behind this shout, in the game at least, is it's ability to knock foes back and stagger them.

I should think the basic effect should be a ranged Bull Rush, the second effect should be a ranged Bull Rush in a Line effect with a save or be Staggered rider, and the third effect should be a ranged Bull Rush in a large Cone effect with a save or be Stunned rider.

Quote:
Inspiring Hero (Ex): Even those without mystical inclinations can feel the power exuded by one of the Dovahkiin. As such, at 2nd level, all allies within 5 ft/level of the Dovahkiin gain a +1 moral bonus on attack and damage rolls. This bonus increases by 1 at 5th level, and every five levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). The Dovahkiin may not be counted as his own ally for purposes of this effect.
This does seem appropriate.

Quote:
Intuitive Aptitude (Su): Much of the power of a Dovahkiin springs from their ability to excel at nearly any task put to them. By spending 10 minutes contemplating a particular task, the Dovahkiin may gain an insight bonus on their next attempted skill check equal to 1/4 Dovahkiin levels. After the check is made, the bonus ends, regardless of success or failure. This ability is usable 3/day.
This, however, seems weak and out of left field. I don't see what this has to do with being Dragonborn.

Quote:
Dragon’s Bane (Ex): A Dovahkiin, though possessed of their blood, is an enemy of dragon’s everywhere. Whenever they attack with a creature of draconic origin or blood, Dovahkiin gain a +2 competence bonus to Strength and Constitution for 5 rounds, and may make coup de grace attempts on such creatures as a free action once they are reduced below 0 hit points during that same time period. Attacking again resets the number of rounds remaining for this ability. The Dovahkiin is also immune to the Frightful Presence ability.
Interesting, but it seems fairly lackluster. Perhaps more appropriate would be a +2 (untyped) bonus to attack rolls and 1d6 extra damage per two class levels. The immunity to frightful presence, though, is a given.

Quote:
Draconic Fortitude (Ex): Because of the dragon’s blood flowing through his veins, a Dovahkiin becomes able to withstand incredible blows without injury. Dovahkiin gain DR equal to ½ their class level, rounded down based on their moral alignment. Thus a Good Dovahkiin gains DR/evil, while an Evil Dovahkiin gains DR/good. A neutral Dovahkiin may choose between either DR/good or DR/evil (once made, the decision may not be altered).
I have no problem with this.

Quote:
Resist Disease (Ex): Thanks to their incredible recuperative powers, the blood of a Dovahkiin actively resists all microbes introduced to the body. As a result, Dovahkiin of 6th level or higher are immune to mundane disease. At 12th level, this improves to become immunity to magical disease as well.
Makes sense.

Quote:
Indomitable Spirit (Ex): Hardened by battle, all Dovahkiin possess incredible mental resilience. If a Dovahkiin of 7th level or higher is is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails his saving throw, he can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. He gets only this one extra chance to succeed on his saving throw. This ability also works against a mind flayer's mind blast attack.
Hmm. I have mixed feelings about this ability. If all Dovahkiin have incredible mental resilience, then all Dovahkiin should just have a Good Will save. I also wonder why this ability doesn't just function against all mind-affecting abilities.

Quote:
Poison Immunity (Ex): The resilience of a Dovahkiin’s body also renders them far less susceptible to toxins. As a result, Dovahkiin of 7th level or higher becomes immune to the effects of mundane poisons. At 14th level, this improves to become immunity to magically created or infused poisons as well.
This is fine.

Quote:
Without Fear (Ex): Having long hardened themselves against the fright of confronting even dragons, a Dovahkiin of 8th level or higher may truly call themselves fearless. They are forevermore immune to all [fear] effects.
Also good.

Quote:
On Dragon’s Wings (Ex): Harnessing the power of their draconic blood, upon reaching 9th level, the Dovahkiin grows a pair of leathery wings, granting them a fly speed equal to twice their land speed at Average maneuverability. At 18th level, this becomes Good maneuverability.
I also gotta say, that this makes me uneasy. I don't like this as a default Dovahkiin class feature. If you think that flight becomes necessary, then there are several alternatives to this (the most obvious being "there's a shout for that") we can discuss.

Quote:
Blessing of the Nine Divines (Su): Once per day, as an immediate action, the Dovahkiin may call on the blessing of the Nine Divines to aid or protect them. This ability negates any damage which the Dovahkiin might receive or have received over the course of one round. Alternatively, this ability may be used to negate any one spell used against them that would allow for spell resistance, forcing the caster to expend the slot to no result.
This is quite nice, but I would make it a standard action. More uses per day wouldn't hurt as a standard action, but aren't explicitly necessary either.

Quote:
Detect Draconic Presence (Su): After spending years in battle against dragons, the Dovahkiin gains the ability to sense the general direction of draconic creatures within 1 mile by concentrating for thirty seconds. The ability lasts as long as the Dovahkiin spends a swift action each turn to maintain it.
Not bad, but I wouldn't require a swift action each round, and I'd actually place this at 1st level (with a much smaller radius of effect) and possibly improve it throughout the levels. Detect Dragon 60ft, always active, that sort of thing.

Quote:
Shared Resolve (Su): A Dovahkiin is one who fights back to back with his allies, never for a moment allowing them to come to harm. As a result, a Dovahkiin of 14th level or higher may, 1/day as an immediate action, allow an ally to use one of the Dovahkiin’s Base Saves in place of their own.
I don't know about this. It's only once per day, and it just doesn't do very much. Seems unnecessary to me. A Dragonborn never seemed to be about actively commanding/inspiring his allies.

Quote:
Thane: Upon reaching 15th level, word of the Dovahkiin’s exploits has spread far and wide. As a result, they receive a Cohort of their level -2 to journey with them and share their burden.
I share my intense dislike of the Leadership feat with this class feature.

Quote:
Practiced Intonation: Slowly, a Dovahkiin gains greater ability with his Shouts. At 17th level Dovahkiin become able to alter their Shouts using techniques typically reserved for magic. 3/day, a Dovahkiin may alter a Shout with the metamagic feat of his choosing, that he possesses, as long as it could workably apply (i.e. Persistent Spell cannot be applied to Unrelenting Force). As part of this ability, the Dovahkiin also gains a Metamagic feat of his choosing, though he must meet any prerequisites.
Vague and odd. I don't think I like this class feature. Nope, I don't. You would be MUCH better served by creating Metashout feats that can be taken by the Dovahkiin whenever they want.

Quote:
Unstoppable Versatility: Because of his incredible inherent abilities, a Dovahkiin of 18th level gains a powerful ability relating to each of the Paths he has chosen that he has taken to the level of Dragon. If he has taken the Path of the Mage to Dragon, the Dovahkiin gains a 9th level spell. If he has taken the Path of the Warrior to Dragon, a 9th level maneuver (whose prerequisites he must meet). And if he has taken the Path of the Thief to Dragon, he gains 3 Inspiration Points which he may use as a Factotum of 11th level might, which refresh each day.
Power creep of a design that I already don't approve of. You can imagine how I feel about this. Also, how the heck does that "Thief Mastery" ability work at all? "Use these inspiration points as a Factotum of 11th level" doesn't mean anything.

Quote:
Mastery of the Dragon’s Tongue: A Dovahkiin of 19th level is a being of unimaginable power and skill. Having at last gained a full understanding of the Draconic language, the Dovahkiin is able to change his Shouts known at the beginning of each day by spending 15 minutes in linguistic contemplation.
This seems to be a poor attempt to make up for the Dovahkiin's lack of Dragon Shouts. I shouldn't have to wait 19 levels to make good use of my class' only unique ability.

Quote:
Forbidden Shout: A Dovahkiin of 20th level has found his way to some of the darkest secrets of Dragonkind. He gains the use of a single Forbidden Shout from the list below. Unlike his other Shouts, however, it may not changed through the use of his Mastery of the Dragon's Tongue ability. Thus, the choice cannot be altered once made. A Forbidden Shout is usable 1/day and does not contribute additional uses to other Shouts.
Fine.

Quote:
Hero of Legend: At 20th level, a Dovahkiin has transcended his normal mortal state. He is now more than a man, he is a name, an idea, a legend. Whenever the Dovahkiin would be killed, his body instead vanishes in an enormous gout of flame dealing 10d6 Fire damage to all creatures within 10 feet. One week later, the Dovahkiin is revived at the same location in which he “died” at full health, with his memory intact. This ability takes effect even in areas of anti-magic or Dead Magic and does not cause level loss.
I have long approved of features like this, so this I like.

So, wow, there you go, a LONG review. I hope you didn't find it too overbearing. If my vision is simply something way different than your own, then by all means just ignore me.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

At this point I have only read down through Path of the Dragonborn, but I'll offer feedback on what I've read so far.
  1. A 1st-level Dovahkiin is much more powerful than most other 1st-level characters. I'd suggest you be less generous until 2nd level.
  2. From the Blood of Dragons has a bunch of clunky restrictions. I'd suggest you eliminate it and create two new feats, one granting limited spellcasting, and one granting limited maneuver use. At 1st level, grant the Dovahkiin the dragonblood subtype, the trapfinding feature, and both of your new feats as bonus feats. The abilities also need to be fleshed out with
  3. The path of the thief is considerably worse than the other two paths. This extends from the trapfinding feature inherent in Blood of Dragons (mostly useless without Search as a class skill) to the path itself (offering a number of weak features from a Tier 4 class, many levels later than that class would have earned them). It needs considerable buffing to come up to the level of the other paths.
  4. At 1st level, a follower of the Path of the Mage has a caster level of -1.
  5. The easy anti-magic field casting at Path of the Mage - Dragon is an outlier for the class power-wise: it's a feature two tiers stronger than the rest of the class so far.
  6. The fiddling with proficiencies, hit dice, saves, and class skills is well enough as-is, but it needs a more elegant presentation. As written, it's confusing and a little difficult to absorb.
  7. Because of how initiator level interacts with maneuvers are learned, a dovahkiin who dips novice-level Path of the Warrior at level 20 can gain access to a very large number of 9th level maneuvers, potentially more than that gained by a Dragon-level follower of the Path of the Warrior.
More to follow as I read through the class this week.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:52 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With the Blood of Dragons, he is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

You guys have given me a lot to consider in terms of redesign. However, I'm swamped with work at the moment, so a full response to comments will have to wait until sometime this weekend.

That said, thank you very much for both of your thoughtful notes. While not what I hoped to hear, they will be very valuable for turning this into the class I want it to be.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:06 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Default Re: [3.5, Base] With The Blood of Dragons, He Is Dragonborn!!! (PEACH)

I'm sorry... I looked at this thread. I thought it was neat. But, I'm really not qualified to judge or offer a peach about it. Most of what I would say is probably encouragement instead of criticism anyway. So I hope that answers a small piece of the Too-Many-Views-For-Two-Few-Responses issue for you.

Have a good day.
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