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Old 01-18-2012, 09:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Circle of Life
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Default [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

The Archer


"Arrow! Black arrow! I have saved you to the last. You have never failed me and always I have recovered you. I had you from my father and he from of old. If ever you came from the forges of the true king under the Mountain, go now and speed well!"

-Bard, The Hobbit

Class Skills
The Archer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis) and Survival (Wis)
Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int

Hit Dice: d8

LevelBABFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSpecialFocus Trick Shots
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Sharpshooter, Ranged Power Attack32
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Ranged Weapon Aptitude63
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Bonus Archer Feat104
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Parting Shot155
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Critical Precision (1)216
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Bonus Archer Feat287
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Evasion368
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Keen Eye459
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Bonus Archer Feat5510
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Camouflage, Critical Precision (2)6611
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Cragtop Archery7812
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Bonus Archer Feat9113
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Favored of the Wind10514
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Improved Evasion12015
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Critical Precision (3), Hide in Plain Sight13616
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Threat of the Master15317
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Perfect Precision17118
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Bonus Archer Feat19019
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Mosquito Swarm Volley21020
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Critical Precision (4)23121

Class Features: The following are all class features of the Archer class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Archers are proficient with all simple weapons and with all ranged martial weapons. Archers are proficient with light and medium armor, but no shields.

Focus: An Archer has a limited pool of extreme mental acuity that he may draw upon to produce potent physical effects. This pool, known simply as Focus, consists of a number of points as shown on the table above. In addition, an Archer gains additional Focus for having a high Constitution score. The Archer adds half his Constitution modifier times his class level to his total Focus pool.

Drawing on this pool is taxing on both the mind and body of the Archer. He must rest uninterrupted for at least eight hours to replenish consumed Focus.

Trick Shots (Ex): All Archers know a variety of physical techniques known as trick shots. Using a trick shot consumes an amount of Focus based on its level: 1 Focus for 1st level trick shots, 3 for 2nd, 5 for 3rd, and so on.

Archers begin play knowing two 1st level trick shots. At each level thereafter, the Archer gains knowledge of an additional trick shot of any level he has access to. At 3rd level, the Archer unlocks knowledge of 2nd level trick shots, at 5th level he unlocks 3rd level trick shots, and so on, ending with 9th level trick shots at 17th level.

Each trick shot has an activation time noted in its entry. If an Archer is damaged while activating a trick shot, he must succeed on a Concentration check, DC 10 + damage dealt, or lose the effect of the trick shot and the Focus consumed to no effect, though he may substitute a basic ranged attack for a failed trick shot if he wishes.

Some trick shots have an activation time of “1 attack action”. Such trick shots can be used as a standard action attack or as an attack of opportunity (should the Archer gain the ability to make attacks of opportunity with ranged weapons) or as many times in a full attack action as the Archer has iterative attacks due to base attack bonus. Bonus attacks, such as from the Rapid Shot feat, the haste spell, or the Splitting weapon enchantment, cannot be trick shots.

If a trick shot mentions a saving throw, the DC for the save is equal to 10 + the level of the trick shot + the Archer's Dexterity modifier. Trick shots that specify a Reflex save to halve or negate their effects after a successful attack cannot be avoided with the Evasion or Improved Evasion class features or similar effects.

At 4th level, and again at every even class level after that (6th, 8th, etc), the Archer may replace a single trick shot that he knows with another of the same level.

Ranged Power Attack (Ex): While wielding a bow or a throwing weapon, an Archer may subtract a number from all ranged attack rolls and add the same number to all ranged damage rolls before making attack rolls for a round. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Sharpshooter (Ex): While wielding a bow or a thrown weapon, an Archer may add his Dexterity bonus to damage, to a maximum of twice his Strength bonus. While wielding a crossbow, an Archer may add half his Dexterity modifier to damage.

Additionally, an Archer does not suffer the usual -4 penalty for firing into melee. This effect qualifies the Archer for feats, prestige classes, and so on that require the Precise Shot feat.

Finally, an Archer does not always provoke attacks of opportunity when using ranged weapons. Whenever he would make a ranged attack, the Archer may make a Concentration check as a free action. If the result of this check equals or exceeds an amount equal to 10 + the Base Attack Bonus of a creature threatening him, the Archer does not provoke an attack of opportunity from that creature, otherwise he provokes an attack of opportunity as normal. The Archer makes only one such Concentration check each round, and the result of the check is applied to all creatures that would threaten an attack of opportunity.

Ranged Weapon Aptitude (Ex): With 1 hour of practice with a new weapon an Archer of 2nd level or higher may change the designated weapon for any feat he possesses that applies to a specific weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Boomerang Daze) replacing one weapon for another in both the prerequisites and the feat's description. He must have the newly designated weapon in hand during her practice and he must be proficient with it to make this change. Only ranged weapons can be modified in this way (an Archer could not, for example, alter the Stunning Fist feat to apply it to attacks made with a longbow).

An Archer can adjust any number of feats with a single practice in this way, but he doesn't have to adjust them all in the same way. He cannot change the designated weapons in such a way that he no longer meets the prerequisites for another feat he possesses.

Additionally, an Archer may take feats that require a Fighter level as if he were a Fighter of his class level.

Bonus Archer Feats: At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter (6th, 9th, etc), an Archer gains a bonus feat drawn from the Archer bonus feat list. He must meet the prerequisites for the selected feat as normal.

Parting Shot (Ex): When using the Withdraw action, an Archer of 4th level or higher may make a number of ranged attacks that he would be granted in a full attack action due to base attack bonus at any point during the movement, divided as he wishes. He may not, however, make any additional attacks that he might be granted in a full attack, such as the extra attack granted by haste or the Rapid Shot feat.

Critical Precision (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, an Archer increases the critical threat range of any ranged weaponry he wields by 1. This increase is always applied last, after any other applicable modifiers to a weapon's critical threat range. At 10th level, and again at 15th and 20th level, the Archer increases the critical threat range by an additional point.

Evasion (Ex): At 7th level and higher, an Archer can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Archer is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Archer does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Keen Eye (Ex): At 8th level, an Archer's vision sharpens tenfold. He gains low-light vision, a +4 competence bonus to Spot checks, and does not need to make Spot checks to notice distant creatures unless they are actively hiding. The Archer automatically detects the presence of invisible creatures within 100 feet of himself, as if he had defeated their Hide check with a Spot check, but he does not automatically pinpoint the location of the detected creature – doing so requires a Spot check, as normal.

Camouflage (Ex): Beginning at 10th level, an Archer can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn't grant cover or concealment.

At his discretion, an Archer may instead gain Urban Camouflage at this level, which functions as the ability above except that it works in urban environments.

Cragtop Archery (Ex): At 11th level, an Archer gains the ability to use gravity to his advantage when making distant attacks. If he is standing on or flying at a higher elevation than his target, he adds the difference to the range increment of bows and crossbows, or one-half the difference to attacks made with thrown weapons, to a maximum of ten feet per class level for bows and crossbows, and five feet per class level for thrown weapons. For every ten feet of additional range added to a weapon in this fashion, the Archer deals an additional point of damage with that attack.

Favored of the Wind (Ex): Beginning at 13th level, an Archer may ignore the effects of natural and magical winds (such as the wind wall or stormrage spells) when attacking with ranged weaponry.

Improved Evasion (Ex): Beginning at 14th level, while an Archer still takes no damage on a successful Reflex throw against attacks, henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Archer does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Beginning at 15th level, an Archer can use the Hide skill even while being observed, so long as he is in an environment where his Camouflage ability would function.

Threat of the Master (Ex): Beginning at 16th level, an Archer's mastery of his craft allows him to threaten creatures out to the first range increment of wielded ranged weaponry. He may flank creatures despite not threatening them in melee, and may take attacks of opportunity for any movement made within his threatened area, as normal.

Perfect Precision (Ex): Beginning at 17th level, an Archer may ignore the effects of cover and concealment less than total when making ranged attacks.

Mosquito Swarm Volley (Ex): Beginning at 19th level, the Archer may opt to delay all damage inflicted by his ranged attacks in a round until the start of his next turn, at which point the damage inflicted to each creature is totaled and then applied; as such, damage reduction, energy resistance, and so on only apply once for each damaged creature. The Archer must choose to use the effects of this ability before making any ranged attacks in a round, and its effects persist until the start of his next turn.

Archer Bonus Feat List:
Spoiler


Trick Shots

1st level:
Spoiler

2nd level:
Spoiler

3rd level:
Spoiler

4th level:
Spoiler

5th level:
Spoiler

6th level:
Spoiler

7th level:
Spoiler

8th level:
Spoiler

9th level:
Spoiler


---

Archer Alternate Class Features

The Blade and the Bow
Level: 4th
Replaces: If you select this alternate class feature, you do not gain the Parting Shot class feature, nor do you later gain the Evasion or Improved Evasion class features.
Benefit: Starting at 4th level, the Archer gains proficiency with all martial melee weapons in addition to his normal proficiencies. If the Archer has the ability to initiate martial maneuvers, he may initiate them with ranged attacks, so long as the maneuver does not require him to perform an action incapable of being done with a bow (such as a grapple or a charge attempt). The Archer may not initiate a martial maneuver with a bow and use a trick shot on the same attack.

Instead of gaining Evasion, an Archer following the path of the Blade and the Bow gains Mettle, as the Hexblade ability of the same name. Instead of gaining Improved Evasion, the Archer instead gains Improved Mettle.
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Last edited by Circle of Life : 01-20-2012 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Elfstone
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Nice. You give archer love and it loves you back.

A few things, first off, the archer is still screwed by a second level spell until 13th level? What!!! No way! Chop ten levels off that and make them immune to AoOs for making Ranged attacks at 13th instead. The Sharpshooting feature is nice, but so many other classes offer immunity, the temptation to dip other classes grows. Better to do away with it entirely at some point in time.

Otherwise, I like it! Skill tricks are interesting.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Circle of Life
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfstone View Post
Nice. You give archer love and it loves you back.
It's been a long time in coming, but archery needed the help.

Quote:
A few things, first off, the archer is still screwed by a second level spell until 13th level? What!!! No way!
Not really. Wind Wall creates a flat wall. Edit: And of course, by flat I mean "potentially square".

As the Archer isn't relegated solely to the role of Full-Attack Monkey, he can either move around/through the wall (Parting Shot), or simply Ricochet his attacks around it from above. Completely invalidating a spell wasn't my intention, as I believe there should be ways to prevent an Archer from constantly dishing out maximum damage round after round.

Quote:
Otherwise, I like it! Skill tricks are interesting.
Thank you, and I'll assume you meant trick shots.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Congratulations for making an ranged-melee-focused attacker viable. This is....a masterpiece, pretty much. Only thing I have to criticize is that there is no(or at least none I've seen) that turns a shot into a line attack. It'd be cool, having an arrow that would be so fast, it'd literally shoot through a row of enemies. That, and that you just made the Ranger cry. But that's nothing unusual, so once again, good job.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Circle of Life
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Quote:
Piercing Shot
Activation Time: 1 attack action

When you use this trick shot, draw a line out to the limit of your weapon's first range increment and make a single attack and damage roll. You apply the attack and damage rolls to all targets within the line, though each foe beyond the first gains a cumulative +2 circumstance bonus to their AC against this attack.

Puncturing Shot
Activation Time: 1 attack action

As part of this trick shot, draw a line up to the limit of your weapon's first range increment and make a single attack and damage roll. All foes in the line of effect are subjected to your attack, though each target beyond the first gains a cumulative +2 circumstance bonus to it's AC against this attack. Each creature struck by this attack must succeed on a Reflex save or begin bleeding out, taking damage at the start of each of your turns equal to your Dexterity modifier. This bleeding continues until a bleeding foe receives healing (a creature's fast healing or regeneration do not count) or until the bleeding has inflicted damage equal to twice the amount that the original attack dealt.
Thanks for the praise though.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Thanks for the praise though.
Sweetness. My apologies for not spotting it before. Guess it's just because I'm a tad tired. Still, again: Sweetness.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:19 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Ooooohhhh....this is good. Very good. I think I'll use this next time I get a chance. Mind if I add this to my world project's homebrew whitelist?
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Originally Posted by Wyntonian View Post
Ooooohhhh....this is good. Very good. I think I'll use this next time I get a chance. Mind if I add this to my world project's homebrew whitelist?
Go right ahead. It would be pretty silly to post something in the public view and then refuse to let people use it, after all.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Circle of Life
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

The Blade and the Bow Archer ACF added to first post.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:32 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

This is awesome. Pure, undiluted awesome.

Most of my critiques are rather minor, but I'll list them anyway, because I know every little bit helps.
  • It would be very nice to include the highest level trick shot you could learn on the main table, and to add a table listing trick shot focus costs.
  • What's the Withdraw option?
  • Most of the +xd6 tricks are not worth taking, especially at higher levels. The damage just doesn't scale well enough-- +6d6 (Savage Shot) or d20+60 damage (Eagle Eye; a +30 modifier shouldn't be very hard to achieve by 11th level if you try)? +9d6 damage (Master's Eye), or a save-or-die (Black Arrow)?
  • Similarly, I'm not so sure about the Techniques of the ____ tricks, as they seem to render your earlier choices completely moot. There's no reason not to take them, since you get such a limited range of tricks, but with them, every archer will have access to almost all the tricks.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
This is awesome. Pure, undiluted awesome.
Thanks.

Quote:
What's the Withdraw option?
Withdrawing is a full-round combat option that allows you to move up to twice your speed, and you do not count your starting square as threatened.

Quote:
Most of the +xd6 tricks are not worth taking, especially at higher levels. The damage just doesn't scale well enough-- +6d6 (Savage Shot) or d20+60 damage (Eagle Eye; a +30 modifier shouldn't be very hard to achieve by 11th level if you try)? +9d6 damage (Master's Eye), or a save-or-die (Black Arrow)?
You're missing the difference between a standard action and an attack action, as outlined in the trick shot description. You could theoretically fire four of those Xd6 attacks in one round, while you only have one standard action to use a Black Arrow or Eagle Eye or what-have-you.

Quote:
Similarly, I'm not so sure about the Techniques of the ____ tricks, as they seem to render your earlier choices completely moot. There's no reason not to take them, since you get such a limited range of tricks, but with them, every archer will have access to almost all the tricks.
You must know the trick shot in question to use it with Technique of the X. Think of it as Heighten Spell for trick shots.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:58 AM   Top  -  End  -  #12
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Withdrawing is a full-round combat option that allows you to move up to twice your speed, and you do not count your starting square as threatened.
Huh. Never saw that before.

Quote:
You're missing the difference between a standard action and an attack action, as outlined in the trick shot description. You could theoretically fire four of those Xd6 attacks in one round, while you only have one standard action to use a Black Arrow or Eagle Eye or what-have-you.
I noticed that, but do you have to keep paying the focus cost every time you use it in a round?

Quote:
You must know the trick shot in question to use it with Technique of the X. Think of it as Heighten Spell for trick shots.
Whoops. In that case, why not just make it a feat, rather than force the player to waste one of his 21 shots on the ability?
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:24 AM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Love it. Always thought that archery needs more love, and this blows away all of the fixes that I've made.

I have two comments/questions, though. Firstly, does critical precision stack with Keen or Improved Critical? If so, a bow could hypothetically have an 11-20 x3 critical.

Secondly, I lament the lack of a capstone beyond critical mastery (4). That's about the only thing I might change about this class.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Othesemo View Post
Love it. Always thought that archery needs more love, and this blows away all of the fixes that I've made.
Thanks.

Quote:
I have two comments/questions, though. Firstly, does critical precision stack with Keen or Improved Critical? If so, a bow could hypothetically have an 11-20 x3 critical.
Yes... but no. It is a static modifier applied after other critical modifiers, so at 20th level, it would be 15-20 with a keen bow, unless there's a 19-20 or 18-20 bow that I don't know about, in which case the number changes accordingly.

Quote:
Secondly, I lament the lack of a capstone beyond critical mastery (4). That's about the only thing I might change about this class.
If it helps, you could consider level 19 the capstone ability.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:23 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

This is fascinating design, to the point that I actually just said "this is fascinating" aloud. It demands a complete read through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Class Skills
The Archer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis) and Survival (Wis)
Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int
No tumble? I get that he's not a close combatant, but it's kind of a gold standard for lightly armored fighters, and he'll need it to get out of close range once he's in there. Otherwise, looks good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
That medium armor proficiency will do a lot for low-level survivability, so good call there. Buckler proficiency might be nice, as it's likewise very nice for low-level survival.

Maybe any one martial weapon? The archer in your picture does have a sword, after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Focus:

Trick Shots (Ex):.
These ... these are rules for mundane psionics. I guess we'll have to see where you go with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Ranged Power Attack (Ex):
Obviously a necessity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Sharpshooter (Ex):
Nicely done. You encourage MAD without demanding it, and the usefulness of concentration likewise makes multiclassing with Martial Adepts and with spellcasters a little more viable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Ranged Weapon Aptitude (Ex):
Making ranged feats weapon-nonspecific is much appreciated. Like the free Precise Shot in Sharpshooter, it'll increase the usefulness of those bonus feats coming down the line. You might want to do something about prereqs, though, like what Ziegander's Action Hero fighter does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Parting Shot (Ex):
Interesting, and nicely limited to prevent overuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Critical Precision (Ex):
Solid. This is a functional scaling capstone, one that nonetheless allows dips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Evasion (Ex):
This gets me a little concerned about the "no-evasion" clause in the archer's trick-shots ability. I don't necessarily like the idea that two archer's couldn't evade each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Keen Eye (Ex):
Limited mindsight? Hm. I'd say that for folks who already have Low-Light Vision, this could afford to double its range.

Quote:
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Camouflage (Ex):
There's absolutely no good reason to divide this into Urban and Regular. Push them together and have it work everywhere, or you're just imposing arbitrary power limits based on campaign type.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Cragtop Archery (Ex):
Necessary.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Favored of the Wind (Ex):
I sort of feel like this should come in much earlier. Wind Wall is a level 2 spell, after all.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Improved Evasion (Ex):

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex):
They are what they are.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Threat of the Master (Ex):
This is a fantastic ability. I love it, and I especially love the clause about flanking. This really does make you into the front-line fighter's best friend.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Perfect Precision (Ex):
A nice pseudo-capstone.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Mosquito Swarm Volley (Ex):
Another nice pseudo-capstone, encouraging you to take Archer 19-20 but never demanding it.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Archer Bonus Feat List:
I know this isn't a complete list, but since you mention Boomerang Daze above, it should probably be on there.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Trick Shots
And now for the lengthy part.

Level 1: Lacerating Shot should probably stack, and it should specify one way or another. Ranged Disarm needs to specify what sort of ability check it uses (strength? dex?)

Level 2: Arcing Shot makes me nervous, particularly at mid-to-high levels when you could be pumping out four arcing shots a round with full Ranged Power Attack for a lot of damage without significant Focus investment. I'd suggest you make it a standard-action ability, since it has no actual vector for failure.

Level 3: I love Intercepting Shot. Needling Shot, on the other hand, is largely a worse Arcing Shot at present. Body Shot is Con damage at 5th level, when it may not be appropriate yet.

Level 4: Blinding Shot makes me nervous, if only because the spell necessary to restore it doesn't come into the party's hands for 6 more levels, and it provides Con damage that can't be healed via Restoration. I don't like Dazing Critical. It depends far too much on getting lucky to even function, so while you have to spend Focus to activate it there's a solid chance you'll get nothing in return.

Level 5: Looks good. Unseen Assassin simultaneously discourages and allows Rogue multiclassing.

Level 6: I have the same problem with Stunning Critical as I did with Dazing Critical. Determined Shot, on the other hand, is one of the coolest ideas so far.

Level 7: Arrowrain is incredible. It's the army-stopping trick. Slaying Critical is the only one of the Critical tricks that seems okay, but I can't say I like critical-based abilities in general. They all suffer from the same problem: that your actual abilities have very little affect on their odds.

Level 8: Does Shredding Shot self-stack? It's an attack action ability, but it mentions only applying to a single attack ...

Level 9: Everything here is awesome. Paralyzing Shot in particular has fantastic design — it's a lockdown affect, not a Save-or-Suck.

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The Blade and the Bow
Ooh, nice. Archer 4/(Initiator) 16 just became very attractive, while not invalidating Archer 20 or (Initiator) 20. Swordsages in particular will like this in combination with Zen Archery.

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Secondly, I lament the lack of a capstone beyond critical mastery (4). That's about the only thing I might change about this class.
You're missing the point — part of your level 20 capstone is that you get another 9th-level Trick Shot.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:44 AM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

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Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
This is fascinating design, to the point that I actually just said "this is fascinating" aloud. It demands a complete read through.
That may just be the best compliment I've ever gotten with regards to my homebrew.

Quote:
No tumble? I get that he's not a close combatant, but it's kind of a gold standard for lightly armored fighters, and he'll need it to get out of close range once he's in there. Otherwise, looks good.
The lack of Tumble is a specific design choice. Archers with Tumble proved too hard to engage in any meaningful way in my limited personal playtests.

Quote:
That medium armor proficiency will do a lot for low-level survivability, so good call there. Buckler proficiency might be nice, as it's likewise very nice for low-level survival.
Lack of buckler proficiency is intended. AC could quickly become unreasonably high for a "safe-zone" character like the Archer when given access to shields in my limited playtests.

Quote:
These ... these are rules for mundane psionics. I guess we'll have to see where you go with that.
Technically correct, I suppose, but there are only so many ways to make a combat subsystem.

Quote:
This gets me a little concerned about the "no-evasion" clause in the archer's trick-shots ability. I don't necessarily like the idea that two archer's couldn't evade each other.
Evading the attack is represented with your AC, specifically Dexterity and Dodge. The Reflex saves in the Archer abilities are there to avoid secondary effects that stem from being hit - it makes no sense to allow them to Evasion out of that.

Quote:
Limited mindsight? Hm. I'd say that for folks who already have Low-Light Vision, this could afford to double its range.
It's hardly mindsight. All the auto-detect does is tell you "you sense an invisible creature somewhere in this area". Low-light Vision does not typically have a range limitation.

Quote:
I sort of feel like this should come in much earlier. Wind Wall is a level 2 spell, after all.
Wind wall is oft-toted about like the holy grail of low level combat... but unless you're fighting a Wizard in a hallway that surrounded himself with a square wall and the ceilings are too low for any of your trick shots to make it over, it's honestly not that bad. Inconvenient, yes, but it's also inconvenient to the Wizard player to have a class completely negate his forethought and careful preparation. NPC casters perfectly placed with foreknowledge of your character's abilities are uncommon to the point of being bad DMing if they show up with any regularity.

Quote:
Level 1: Lacerating Shot should probably stack, and it should specify one way or another. Ranged Disarm needs to specify what sort of ability check it uses (strength? dex?)
Yes it should, and I'm not certain what you mean. Disarming is purely opposed attack rolls.

Quote:
Level 2: Arcing Shot makes me nervous, particularly at mid-to-high levels when you could be pumping out four arcing shots a round with full Ranged Power Attack for a lot of damage without significant Focus investment. I'd suggest you make it a standard-action ability, since it has no actual vector for failure.
I would think a one-round delay on the attack counts as a vector for failure, but opinions may vary.

Quote:
Level 3: I love Intercepting Shot. Needling Shot, on the other hand, is largely a worse Arcing Shot at present. Body Shot is Con damage at 5th level, when it may not be appropriate yet.
Intercepting Shot was one of the big things I wanted to give the Archer, so I'm glad you approve. Your comment on Needling Shot makes me think you missed the one-round delay on Arcing Shot. Con damage is always appropriate in my opinion, and 5th level is certainly not too early when casters have access to lesser restoration already.

Quote:
Level 4: Blinding Shot makes me nervous, if only because the spell necessary to restore it doesn't come into the party's hands for 6 more levels, and it provides Con damage that can't be healed via Restoration. I don't like Dazing Critical. It depends far too much on getting lucky to even function, so while you have to spend Focus to activate it there's a solid chance you'll get nothing in return.
The Con damage was never meant to be permanent, else I would have said Con drain. The X-ing Critical line is a risk, yes; the tradeoff is that there is no saving throw and the disabling effects last longer.

Quote:
Level 6: I have the same problem with Stunning Critical as I did with Dazing Critical. Determined Shot, on the other hand, is one of the coolest ideas so far.
The crit-based trick shots are unlikely to change, but your objection is duly noted. Determined Shot is one of my favorites too.

Quote:
Level 7: Arrowrain is incredible. It's the army-stopping trick. Slaying Critical is the only one of the Critical tricks that seems okay, but I can't say I like critical-based abilities in general. They all suffer from the same problem: that your actual abilities have very little affect on their odds.
Except, of course, that the class gains a scaling bonus to critical threat just by leveling up. Assuming you hit on an 11 or higher, you have a roughly 50% chance to trigger the effects of any X-ing Critical ability whenever you hit with it. Also, the non-Critical versions of the abilities are standard actions, whereas the Critical versions are attack actions.

Quote:
Level 8: Does Shredding Shot self-stack? It's an attack action ability, but it mentions only applying to a single attack ...
If by stacking you mean that you can penalize the same source of AC multiple times, no.

Quote:
Ooh, nice. Archer 4/(Initiator) 16 just became very attractive, while not invalidating Archer 20 or (Initiator) 20. Swordsages in particular will like this in combination with Zen Archery.
Perfection.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:38 AM   Top  -  End  -  #17
gkathellar
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

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Technically correct, I suppose, but there are only so many ways to make a combat subsystem.
It was not intended as an insult. That's probably why it's so fascinating to me — I had never considered the possibility before. But when you think about it, a mana system does make a certain amount of sense for fighters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Low-light Vision does not typically have a range limitation.
It does, however, increase your visual range in low-light conditions a certain amount. I'm just noting that if you already have low-light vision, you should probably get Superior Low-Light Vision ... which is somewhere, but I'm not remembering. Eh, it's hardly a major point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Wind wall is oft-toted about like the holy grail of low level combat...
When I typed that line I had not yet noticed all the abilities that do allow you to bypass Wind Wall earlier, of which I think Arcing Shot is probably the really big one.

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Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
Yes it should, and I'm not certain what you mean. Disarming is purely opposed attack rolls.
I just meant that it should specify one way or another, which it now does. As for Disarming ... wow it's been a long time since I used the disarm action in play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
I would think a one-round delay on the attack counts as a vector for failure, but opinions may vary. ... Your comment on Needling Shot makes me think you missed the one-round delay on Arcing Shot.
Missing that is is what happened. Arcing shot looks fine considering the delay (and it would be a lot of fun to use alongside a buddy with WRT, I think).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle of Life View Post
The X-ing Critical line is a risk, yes; the tradeoff is that there is no saving throw and the disabling effects last longer.
Eh. I'm personally not fond of critical-based abilities but ... whatever. It's an option, not a core ability.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
Greenish
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

I've been trying to stat out a bowman for a while, but this avoids having to hop through the usual hoops. Some notes:

I'm no great fan of daily abilities, but if you must have them, focus isn't too bad a mechanism.

Parting Shot is very neat.

Does Sharpshooting allow adding both Dex and Str (assuming appropriate composite bow) to damage?

Why do crossbows only get 1/2*Dex? Sure, it can be pumped to 2*Dex with Crossbow Sniper, but there's already a feat tax for using crossbows.



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No tumble?
That's what Skilled City-dweller is for.

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Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
That medium armor proficiency will do a lot for low-level survivability, so good call there. Buckler proficiency might be nice, as it's likewise very nice for low-level survival.
Proficiency doesn't matter once you can afford a MW buckler.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:59 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

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Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
Does Sharpshooting allow adding both Dex and Str (assuming appropriate composite bow) to damage?
Yes.

Quote:
Why do crossbows only get 1/2*Dex? Sure, it can be pumped to 2*Dex with Crossbow Sniper, but there's already a feat tax for using crossbows.
Because crossbows don't require strength, thus allowing for higher overall Dex/Con. Higher accuracy and more focus, less damage.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:24 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
Re'ozul
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

I already love this class.

class ability-wise there are only two things that seem to ask for clarification.

Threat of the master:
1. With the right feats and enchantments that can be a HUGE area.
2. with combat reflexes this can be an awesome ability, especially due to trick-shots.

Perfect Precision: What happens if the character too improved precise shot earlier? Can he retrain, is there an extra bonus, or does it simply become a dead feat? (well, except for the grappling bit)

Cragtop archer:
I can already see every single archer getting a means of flight and if possible staying level*10' in the air.

I'll write more on trick shots once i slept.

Have I mentioned I love this class? Archers should be allowed to be awesome and you made them.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
Circle of Life
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

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Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Threat of the master:
1. With the right feats and enchantments that can be a HUGE area.
2. with combat reflexes this can be an awesome ability, especially due to trick-shots.
That's the idea, yes. You're giving up martial maneuvers and spellcasting to dive that deep into the class, so you should get something awesome out of it.

Quote:
Perfect Precision: What happens if the character too improved precise shot earlier? Can he retrain, is there an extra bonus, or does it simply become a dead feat? (well, except for the grappling bit)
That, I imagine, would be up to the player's DM. The IPS is still technically providing him with a benefit, but if he wants to retrain, he should be able to.

Quote:
Cragtop archer:
I can already see every single archer getting a means of flight and if possible staying level*10' in the air.
Raptoran Archer go!

Quote:
Have I mentioned I love this class? Archers should be allowed to be awesome and you made them.
Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:59 AM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Doorhandle
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

So, a ranged-based vaguely –manoeuvrelike class?

I can dig it.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

Crippling Shot (level 1) and Buzzing Fly (level 4) added to the list of trick shots. If anyone has ideas for other trick shots they would like to see, feel free to make suggestions.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
Re'ozul
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

My opinions on the different trick shots:

Right ahead I won't be commenting in the pure damage increase shots since they serve a function but don't really have anything special worth talking about.

1st level:
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2nd Level:
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Level 3:
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4th level:
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5th Level:
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6th level:
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7th level:
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8th level:
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9th level:
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:36 AM   Top  -  End  -  #25
NeoSeraphi
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Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Archer - Badass Normal Meets The Bow

I believe this is just under the restriction for necro. Anyway, I think you should 'brew a feat. Call it Close-Range Shooting or something, and have it give a +4 bonus to Concentration checks made to avoid AoOs with a bow. You know, like Combat Casting or Combat Manifesting. Seems appropriate. Hell, you could go ahead and combine it with Defensive Archery. The two abilities combined would be worth a feat, in my opinion.
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