Also, Belkar with Animal Ken? Is this because he knows cats are lactose-intolerant? And Haley should totally have five dots each in Manipulation and Subterfuge, she's supposed to be an amazing liar.
Elan has no Constitution, and Sabine has no Strength. The thread's default stance appears to be not listing any scores that we know nothing about.
~R.I.P. Thog (possibly) and Durkon Thundershield (eventually)~
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmister
Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.
Elan has no Constitution, and Sabine has no Strength. The thread's default stance appears to be not listing any scores that we know nothing about.
That's not precisely true. Kurald seems to have implemented that policy for the OOTS, but RMS seems to cleave to the older policy of listing racial averages for the NPCs.
Also, barring racial and age bonuses and penalties, the minimum score anyone listed should have in any stat should be 3. Obviously if a higher minimum can be derived, or is called out in the comic, that information supercedes the above assumption.
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Milk Chocolate Justiciar of the Haley fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion
And remember, whoever captures the fox and brings it under their control first gains ownership and accompanying property rights over the wild beast.
The thread's default stance appears to be not listing any scores that we know nothing about.
That is correct. Note that a racial bonus or penalty is something we know. I don't see much of a point in adding a lot of lines that say "probably around ten" or "certainly 3 or more"; we might as well list everybody with a strength of less than 100.
That is correct. Note that a racial bonus or penalty is something we know. I don't see much of a point in adding a lot of lines that say "probably around ten" or "certainly 3 or more"; we might as well list everybody with a strength of less than 100.
This is correct, with one exception: I think we should have Elan and Nale's constitution listed, even if it is just ~10, because while we don't know what the actual score is, we do know they have an identical score, so I think that's worth noting.
__________________ "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
Pixar Fanboy of the Hinjo Fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallavast
Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...
Regarding Xykon, he's capable of casting 12th level spells (maximized energy drain). His minimum level is 26 for him to be able to cast Epic Spells plus taking Improved Spell Capacity three times.
Also the drow wizard in the linear guild has Improved Familiar to account for his imp.
Regarding Xykon, he's capable of casting 12th level spells (maximized energy drain). His minimum level is 26 for him to be able to cast Epic Spells plus taking Improved Spell Capacity three times.
The problem is Xykon later used a Still Meteor Swarm in a situation where he shouldn't be able to, so it doesn't fit neatly into the epic rules, and since we don't know what Rich was thinking at this point, we can't note it right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordofBones
Also the drow wizard in the linear guild has Improved Familiar to account for his imp.
This was disputed because of the idea that Qarr is not actually a Familiar, but only pretending to be on the IFCC's orders, Qarr's statements about his plans overrulling Z's assertion about having a familiar.
__________________ "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
Pixar Fanboy of the Hinjo Fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallavast
Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...
Well, it at least shows that Xykon is capable of casting 12th level spells. While the Meteor Swarm thing is a bit wonky, his energy drain casting seems to obey the rules of the spell.
Well, it at least shows that Xykon is capable of casting 12th level spells. While the Meteor Swarm thing is a bit wonky, his energy drain casting seems to obey the rules of the spell.
It's in the FAQ already.
If you want more background info, pages 5 through 15 of this thread contain an extensive discussion on the matter.
The second point was a response to an April Fools joke which has since been removed from the OP.
__________________
Spoiler
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
Q: How does Xykon cast Maximized Energy Drain in comic 657?
We don't know for sure. The most popular theories involve the feat Improved Spell Capacity, the feat Sudden Maximize, or a Rod of Metamagic. Each theory has its pros and cons.
Just a typo, Xykon casts it in comic 652, not 657.
On what basis? The OOTS levelled together until the party split, and no one else in the party demonstrated being over level 13 (see the OP).
More specifically, V required there to be no more than 13 soldiers holding the breach in the wall, so that he could cast Mass Bull's Strength, Mass Bear's Endurance, and Mass Enlarge Person, all spells that can target "One target per caster level, with no two of them being more than 30ft apart." Since he specifically asked for the commander to not bring in more soldiers, it is almost confirmed that Vaarsuvius was level 13 by this interaction. If the party leveled up relatively equally up until the split, then 13 seems to be the level of each of the members of the Order at this point.
EDIT: Well, looks like some of the members didn't hit 13 until much later on. Oh well, at least there can't be any more confusion about V's level at this point!
Last edited by Hord Sin'orakos : 04-03-2012 at 12:28 PM.
EDIT: Well, looks like some of the members didn't hit 13 until much later on. Oh well, at least there can't be any more confusion about V's level at this point!
The other party members didn't do anything to prove they were 13 until later on, but they might still have been 13 at the battle.
And I agree that we shouldn't read anything into Eugene calling Roy "the highest-level good character on the battlefield". Not only do we know that Eugene is a habitual liar, but we know that he was wrong in this instance, since Soon is definitely higher level than Roy.
And I missed the April Fool's joke-- Was it a White Wolf thing?
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Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
--As You Like It, III:ii:328
More specifically, V required there to be no more than 13 soldiers holding the breach in the wall, so that he could cast Mass Bull's Strength, Mass Bear's Endurance, and Mass Enlarge Person, all spells that can target "One target per caster level, with no two of them being more than 30ft apart." Since he specifically asked for the commander to not bring in more soldiers, it is almost confirmed that Vaarsuvius was level 13 by this interaction. If the party leveled up relatively equally up until the split, then 13 seems to be the level of each of the members of the Order at this point.
V demonstrated she had reached level 13 when she cast the seventh-level spell Grasping Hand on Belkar here. That scene with the giant soldiers and the breach establishes 13 as the upper bound for V's level at the time.
__________________
Milk Chocolate Justiciar of the Haley fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion
And remember, whoever captures the fox and brings it under their control first gains ownership and accompanying property rights over the wild beast.
V demonstrated she had reached level 13 when she cast the seventh-level spell Grasping Hand on Belkar here. That scene with the giant soldiers and the breach establishes 13 as the upper bound for V's level at the time.
A twelfth-level Vaarsuvius would have only been able to buff 12 of the soldiers with a single casting of Mass Bull's Strength or Mass Bear's Endurance.
__________________
Spoiler
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
A twelfth-level Vaarsuvius would have only been able to buff 12 of the soldiers with a single casting of Mass Bull's Strength or Mass Bear's Endurance.
...Hence 13 is the upper bound for her level at the time, and not 12. All I'm saying is that V was established as being level either 13 or 14 earlier than the scene at the breach, by virtue of being able to cast a seventh-level spell to restrain Belkar. The scene at the breach then ruled out her being level 14, pegging her level at the time at level 13.
__________________
Milk Chocolate Justiciar of the Haley fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion
And remember, whoever captures the fox and brings it under their control first gains ownership and accompanying property rights over the wild beast.
...So 13 was the lower bound for his/her level then? S/he could have been more than 13, but couldn't have been less?
__________________
Spoiler
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
...So 13 was the lower bound for his/her level then? S/he could have been more than 13, but couldn't have been less?
In between demonstrating that she could cast Grasping Hand and the scene at the breach? Yes. Once the scene at the breach had occured, level 13 was pretty much the only possibility.
__________________
Milk Chocolate Justiciar of the Haley fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion
And remember, whoever captures the fox and brings it under their control first gains ownership and accompanying property rights over the wild beast.
The other party members didn't do anything to prove they were 13 until later on, but they might still have been 13 at the battle.
And I agree that we shouldn't read anything into Eugene calling Roy "the highest-level good character on the battlefield". Not only do we know that Eugene is a habitual liar, but we know that he was wrong in this instance, since Soon is definitely higher level than Roy.
And I missed the April Fool's joke-- Was it a White Wolf thing?
Soon wasn't really "on the battlefield," though... he was holed up in the throne room.
I assume that Roy would have challenged Eugene's statement - which was essentially that none of Roy's party members were as high-leveled as he was - if he knew it to be untrue, and I assume Roy knew what level the other Order members are. It's pretty important to know that sort of thing in tactical planning, y'know, and even if we don't always know when characters level up anymore, I'm sure Roy always did, at least until he died.
Presumably Eugene knew that if his criticism of Roy in that instance was flat-out wrong, Roy could have refuted him and made him look stupid by saying "no, I'm the same level as everybody else," or even by plausibly being able to say "no, I have no reason to think that I'm the highest level character in the party and thus the highest level character on the side of Good." Thus I assume Eugene actually knew what he was talking about.
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Also a member of all other fanclubs.
Vassal #82 of House Kato.
Presumably Eugene knew that if his criticism of Roy in that instance was flat-out wrong, Roy could have refuted him and made him look stupid by saying "no, I'm the same level as everybody else," or even by plausibly being able to say "no, I have no reason to think that I'm the highest level character in the party and thus the highest level character on the side of Good." Thus I assume Eugene actually knew what he was talking about.
If Roy had said, "Actually, I'm only the same level as Durkon," he would have come across as pedantic and whiny.
And, frankly, "Roy would know if Eugene's statement was false" isn't much better than "Eugene would know if his statement was true." Same question in either case: How?
__________________
Spoiler
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
If Roy had said, "Actually, I'm only the same level as Durkon," he would have come across as pedantic and whiny.
And, frankly, "Roy would know if Eugene's statement was false" isn't much better than "Eugene would know if his statement was true." Same question in either case: How?
He could have said "Now you're just making up random stuff/pulling made-up nonsense out of your rectum just to sound as if you have a leg to stand on." Presumably something much classier than that. But come on. Expecting someone as snarky as Roy to be unable to avoid pedantry when busy refuting someone's arguments - which is exactly what he was doing in that panel and the surrounding panels - is absurd.
Here's an even better question: How does anyone know ANYONE'S level? Knowing your own level is absurd enough. But we have evidence that characters are aware of each others' levels. For instance, Hinjo mutters at the end of the DStP arc that "Lien and O'Chul managed to gain levels and I didn't," and it makes zero sense that Roy would make no effort to learn his teammates' levels if, as it seems, he could, or that they would withhold the fact that they'd gained levels from him. Somebody as interested in tactical planning as he is would obviously want to know such vital information.
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Also a member of all other fanclubs.
Vassal #82 of House Kato.
I think we can add Mass Resist Energy to Durkon's non-Core spells. I know he said Mass Resist Acid, but I think that's just how he chooses the energy type to protect from.
__________________ "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
Pixar Fanboy of the Hinjo Fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallavast
Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...
Speaking of which, shouldn't Z be listed with Protection from Energy?
__________________ group hug! Hold Person.
~R.I.P. Thog (possibly) and Durkon Thundershield (eventually)~
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by martianmister
Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.
A good point, but I'll wait until we get a little more consensus on the matter.
__________________ "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
Pixar Fanboy of the Hinjo Fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallavast
Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...
I think we can add Mass Resist Energy to Durkon's non-Core spells. I know he said Mass Resist Acid, but I think that's just how he chooses the energy type to protect from.
Sure. Also, Durkon has the carpet now.
Based on comic 847, I think that Thog, Yukyuk, and Qarr should be moved to the "former members" section (which is listed alphabetically). I find it likely that Thog will return to the LG at some point, but presently he's not a member.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff
Speaking of which, shouldn't Z be listed with Protection from Energy?
Based on comic 847, I think that Thog, Yukyuk, and Qarr should be moved to the "former members" section (which is listed alphabetically). I find it likely that Thog will return to the LG at some point, but presently he's not a member.
I disagree about Qarr being a "former member".
Quote:
Why, because he resisted V's fireball?
Because he's currently listed with "Protection from Fire" as though Protection from Fire were a spell on its own, and not a use of Protection from Energy.
__________________
Milk Chocolate Justiciar of the Haley fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion
And remember, whoever captures the fox and brings it under their control first gains ownership and accompanying property rights over the wild beast.
Based on comic 847, I think that Thog, Yukyuk, and Qarr should be moved to the "former members" section (which is listed alphabetically). I find it likely that Thog will return to the LG at some point, but presently he's not a member.
Thog and Yukyuk sure, but I don't think Qarr should be stuffed into some spoiler tags just yet. I don't think we've seen him break relationships with the Linear Guild, just pop back to HQ for a status report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurald Galain
Why, because he resisted V's fireball?
Because he said Protection from Fire. No such spell exists, only Protection from Energy, so I think it makes sense if we mark Durkon's spell as Mass Resist Energy, the same convention would apply here.
__________________ "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
Pixar Fanboy of the Hinjo Fanclub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallavast
Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...
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