General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

[Gensh]

Originally Posted by golentan

Nope, any Infernal can have any urge AND any favored yozi. Patron yozi is fixed by caste tho. The Iconics are non-helpful on several levels, but I don't think that should detract from the joys of good infernal character building. I've had fun with a Scourge Caste with Kimbery Favored and an Ebon Dragon Urge. The scourge caste mostly provided base "stealthy character" skills, but also some really good mobility charms. Kimbery provided a vast wealth of poisons, and the ebon dragon provided the motive to use those poisons to spread fear and corruption among his enemies.

Also, Ebon Dragon and Kimbery have some crazy synergy going on. One of my favorite combinations. Heelloooo arbitrarily high hardness.

I'm still sad I've never gotten a chance to do the obvious Kimberian Malefactor - Poor, unfortunate souls~

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Gensh

I'm still sad I've never gotten a chance to do the obvious Kimberian Malefactor - Poor, unfortunate souls~

Totally doable. You take the Kimbery Shaping defense that gives you mutations (sea dissolves herself I think?) and hang out in the wyld a bit. Boom, tentacle legs. Then go to the west and find a pelagothrope looking for love. Verdant Emptiness Endowment + Scoured Perfection of Form. The pelagothrope loses their voice in exchange for becoming indistinguishable from a normal human. Fine Print Bequest gives you the penalty terms. I think you need a custom expansion to actually trap their soul rather than just inflict botches though.

Aaaand done.

[Tavar]

Hmm.. Does Creation have any numbers thought to be unusually unlucky?

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Draken

Gives him a way to create those Dark Links.

Solar Circle Sorcery. Sidereal Martial Arts. Fair Folk artifacts. Lunar Charms. Take your pick.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

however keep in mind that its Link thats the Lunar.

Doesn't have to be, by any means.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

Why? because he travels through and bends time

Unless you count going forward, that's outside the current paradigm of the game.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

...has shapeshifted into a deku, a goron, a zora, and a wolf

Fair Folk artifacts. Sorcery. Sidereal Martial Arts.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

...has shrunk down to a small size...

Fair Folk artifacts. Ordinary artifacts. Sorcery. Sidereal Martial Arts.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

...comes from the woods...

This is something that is not limited to any one character splat; attempting to shoehorn "comes from the woods" into a Lunar-only thing seems extremely problematic.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

...has a fairy companion...

One dot in Allies.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

and if I remember correctly he once divided himself into four Links in one game...

Solar Circle Sorcery. Fair Folk artifacts. Sidereal martial Arts. Adorjan Charms.

Originally Posted by Lord Raziere

He has also done various other things using music, none of which I can see a Solar doing.

Performance Charms.

To clarify, I'm not saying anyone's particular suggestions is wrong, merely that it's not the only option by far.

Originally Posted by Tavar

Hmm.. Does Creation have any numbers thought to be unusually unlucky?

Don't know, but I find it funny that both the fourth volumes in the "Compass of Celestial Directions" and "Manual of Exalted Power" series were about the Underworld and Abyssals respectively, considering the Japanese associate the number four with death.

[horngeek]

I don't know if there are any Creation-wide unlucky numbers. Five might have some significance, but probably as a lucky number rather than an unlucky one (for pretty obvious reasons).

[Turalisj]

I want someone to stat Kaepora Gaebora as a lunar elder.....

[Drascin]

Originally Posted by Tavar

Actually, I'm going to take back the "Link is a Solar thing".

Why? Because of fate. Remember, he's always fated to come into his power. Plus, in many ways, Ganon always dwarfs him, powerwise. But Link manages to win through trickery.

He could very well make a good Sidereal. In fact, I'd say he's a Sidereal of Endings, while Zelda is of Battles.

I dunno. I'd still put him as Solar. What Link does is not so much trickery as finding and using the best tool for each job - be it enchanted hammers, simple bottles, or arrows imbued with the essence of the Goddesses. But he's generally very direct. Doesn't help that I think there's like two Charms total in the Endings section that Link would actually want...

But he clearly does have some sort of Thousand Arms or Many-Pockets analogue, having unbreakable willpower and drive is kind of his "thing" (exhibit A, Fierce Deity Mask. Supposedly, it's an evil god equal to Majora, and has dominated everyone that tried to put the mask on. Link was the first to control it instead of the reverse), he masters everything he touches instantly without any real training...

...you know, that's actually sounding a bit Lunar. Especially the "needs no training" thing.

Besides, having high Destiny can also help you in earning other Exaltations, and not all Links were destined. OoT Link was destined, while Wind Waker Link kind of fell into the role, for example, and LttP link was kinda ambiguous - the bloodline component that supposedly helped (him being descended from the champions of Hyrule that once sealed Ganon and stuff) him might actually point to him as Dragonblooded of all things.

Also, Link's life is not entirely made of suffering. That points him as not Sidereal this is a joke. Meme goes that Sidereal Exaltation is actually just a really elaborate form of punishment. Plus, Wind Waker Link's life IS actually made of suffering. He's both the game's hero and buttmonkey

[horngeek]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

I want someone to stat Kaepora Gaebora as a lunar elder.....

...he'd probably have a Martial Art revolving around delivering annoying speeches.

[Volthawk]

Originally Posted by horngeek

Who's Mardukth and where can this charmset be found?

You might recognise his name if you use his current Neverborn name - He Who Holds In Thrall, master of the First and Forsaken Lion and the Princess Magnificent.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Mardukth's Charmset can be found here. RO does solid work.

Who is missing the joke?

...DO WANT.

[Yuki Akuma]

Originally Posted by horngeek

Who's Mardukth and where can this charmset be found?

Mardukth, the Mountain and the Beast That Sits Upon It, was the first King of the Primordials. Then the Empyreal Chaos (that which would become Malfaes) kicked him off his mountain and took over.

Don't ask the Primordials about this (Yozis, free or dead), though. They don't like to admit it ever happened.

Read this. It's pretty awesome.

[Rikandur Azebol]

What is Zen-Mu and how it is related to Creation ?

[Gensh]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

What is Zen-Mu and how it is related to Creation ?

It's where the Primordials originated from - or what their presence created - or both at the same time in paradoxical fashion. It was where they played with worldbuilding before leaving to seek the Shining Answer. It's important to note, though, that there's barely anything left of it, if pieces still exist at all - it was somewhere between Glamour and Creation, not being thoroughly infused with Gaia's stability as Creation is.

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

What is Zen-Mu and how it is related to Creation ?

When the primordials first came into existence and pushed back the tides of chaos, they created a world called Zen Mu. It required their direct intervention as upkeep, and so after a few million or billion years they got tired of running zen mu. They abandoned their first project and took lessons from it to make creation: creation is in some ways Zen Mu 2.0, still created and stabilized by primordial essence, but self maintaining (due to gods and elementals): designed to act as a semi-autonomous bulwark against the wyld without the Primordials having to go torture fae to death personally (unless they felt like it). And then they discovered the dangers of autonomous creations, and got murderized by the exalted. The end.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by golentan

When the primordials first came into existence and pushed back the tides of chaos, they created a world called Zen Mu. It required their direct intervention as upkeep, and so after a few million or billion years they got tired of running zen mu. They abandoned their first project and took lessons from it to make creation: creation is in some ways Zen Mu 2.0, still created and stabilized by primordial essence, but self maintaining (due to gods and elementals): designed to act as a semi-autonomous bulwark against the wyld without the Primordials having to go torture fae to death personally (unless they felt like it). And then they discovered the dangers of autonomous creations, and got murderized by the exalted. The end.

And now the TRUE heroes of the setting, the Infernal Exalted, seek to return their creators to the glory they possessed before their creations tore them down to steal their Xbox!

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

And now the TRUE heroes of the setting, the Infernal Exalted, seek to return their creators to the glory they possessed before their creations tore them down to steal their Xbox!

Or, you know, just go be awesome Primordials 2.0. I'm okay with the yozis getting their x-box back, but after the temper tantrum they've been throwing since it got taken away in the first place I think that uncle Autochthon should be stern with them and tell them they can't have ice cream and if they try shaving the cat one more time they'll have to sit in the corner for another few millennia.

Spoiler

[Bitter]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

What is Zen-Mu and how it is related to Creation ?

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=501849636653

It was originally an Ink Monkey post, Ink Monkeys being what some of the current crop of Exalted developers called themselves when they got permission to start a White-Wolf blog that gave away free Exalted setting mechanics/fluff. It was taken down in the site revamp, but has been collected in various places.

[Gensh]

Originally Posted by golentan

Or, you know, just go be awesome Primordials 2.0. I'm okay with the yozis getting their x-box back, but after the temper tantrum they've been throwing since it got taken away in the first place I think that uncle Autochthon should be stern with them and tell them they can't have ice cream and if they try shaving the cat one more time they'll have to sit in the corner for another few millennia.

See, the problem I have with Devil-Tigers is that you can easily cut a crazy Solar's base out from under him; it's made of humans, after all. A crazy Devil-Tiger (well, crazier) is even worse than a hostile Primordial. Really, the best plan is to educate the Yozis on why what they were wrong - modern psychology has shown that the carrot is much better than the stick. As a Primordial is a whole world to itself, it's much more resistant to change, and while this would make the education more difficult, it would also mean that they could govern with less corruption than a system of humans. Under this model, the Exalted would be placated by receiving small nations to govern as they please, so long as they follow the mandates laid forth by the Primordial Parliament. And we make that Neverborn border fence!

[Story Time]

Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

What is Zen-Mu and how it is related to Creation ?

Originally Posted by Bitter

It was originally an Ink Monkey post, Ink Monkeys being what some of the current crop of Exalted developers called themselves when they got permission to start a White-Wolf blog that gave away free Exalted setting mechanics/fluff. It was taken down in the site revamp, but has been collected in various places.

Oh good! I'm glad someone finally cleared this up. Now I can ban it from all my games.

On an unrelated note, I've been semi-floating today.

[Tavar]

Any particular reason why?

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Story Time

Oh good! I'm glad someone finally cleared this up. Now I can ban it from all my games.

On an unrelated note, I've been semi-floating today.

Seriously? Zen mu is kind of cool. I get some people dislike the ink monkeys, and in some cases rightfully so, but that kind of knee jerk reaction does you little credit as far as your ability to discriminate.

If you're going to hate zen mu, at least read some of it first.

[Turalisj]

Originally Posted by Story Time

Oh good! I'm glad someone finally cleared this up. Now I can ban it from all my games.

On an unrelated note, I've been semi-floating today.

Yes! Hang anyone who has anything to do with the Ink Monkeys! Get the torch 'n pitchforks! Core material only! [/sarcasm]

[Yuki Akuma]

Originally Posted by Story Time

Oh good! I'm glad someone finally cleared this up. Now I can ban it from all my games.

It's... still absolutely official content, you know.

Also: why would you say it like that? It's almost like you're trying to start an argument about the quality and/or validity of Ink Monkeys content.

[KaganMonk]

What? People around here intentionally starting arguments about the Ink Monkeys / Official developers? That hasn't happened in at least..... a week?

[Draken]

I also can't see the point of banning one of the few pieces of backstory pertaining to the primordials.

I mean, it is backstory. Of NPCs. What is the point of banning it? Rewriting it, sure (but it is damn good backstory), but banning it just feels pointless.

[Gensh]

Originally Posted by Draken

I also can't see the point of banning one of the few pieces of backstory pertaining to the primordials.

I mean, it is backstory. Of NPCs. What is the point of banning it? Rewriting it, sure (but it is damn good backstory), but banning it just feels pointless.

This, effectively. Whenever I need to describe the setting, I always start from the very beginning and then continue until someone shuts me up. The bit with Zen-Mu is always fun, though, because I get to be all cryptic and metaphorical. Of course, I usually give a Lighter and Softer version of the entire story so that everything looks like a series of misunderstandings rather than a series of blood feuds.
...
I might do a dramatic reading this weekend if I've got time. No one likes reading those blocks of text anyway, so I might as well pre-record it so I'm not repeating myself with every new game.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Thanks for the explanation. Now ... a theoretical question. Everyone who hadn't their minds eaten/siderealed surely remember the glorious work of Meschlum called "Crumbling Stairs World-Building for Raksha" ... wouldn't the abandoned Zen Mu be a perfect semi-stable ground for this ?

Not to mention that there is possibility that there are still intact relics from the vanquished Primordials left. Possibilities ... chmm.

Creation will end anyway, hopefully without dragging the Wyld along into Oblivion. Possibilities !

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Yes! Hang anyone who has anything to do with the Ink Monkeys! Get the torch 'n pitchforks! Core material only! [/sarcasm]

They aren't Raksha to be chased that way, aren't they ? Why limit it to torches and pitchforks, let's send at them hordes of WoD fans !

[Story Time]

Originally Posted by Turalisj

Yes! Hang anyone who has anything to do with the Ink Monkeys! Get the torch 'n pitchforks! Core material only! [/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma

It's... still absolutely official content, you know.

Also: why would you say it like that? It's almost like you're trying to start an argument about the quality and/or validity of Ink Monkeys content.

No-no! Conflict is not my schtick. I like co-operation. If people feel differently about Ink Monkey material then that's fine.

Contrary to supposition, I'm glad that new material is added. I'm also glad that there are contributors who are willing to push their minds and creativity in such a way to make a more dynamic setting. I don't hold anything against the contributors personally. That'd just be really mean.

When I was first exposed to Ink Monkeys material I gathered an implicit statement there that, This material is not official. We have to get permission from John Chambers who signs off on it, indicating that nothing that we produce will ever be officially published. That was the gist of it. And that's the way that I've looked at it ever since. Ink Monkey material was home-brew when I first started investigating it. I like home-brew.

But just because I'm idealistic about home-brew doesn't mean I'd want to use it for every game.

Like Kyeudo ( or at least, I think it's like Kyeudo. Sorry if I'm wrong, Kyeudo! ), I like to tell my own tales. I don't like having to tell the same plot over and over with the same places and the same setting. That's not any fun. See where this is going yet...? Being confined to other peoples' stuff strips the fun out of a game for me.

More generically, it's not fun if I try to stifle other peoples' creativity. That's just not right. So feel free to think what you want, but that's my explanation.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Story Time

When I was first exposed to Ink Monkeys material I gathered an implicit statement there that, This material is not official. We have to get permission from John Chambers who signs off on it, indicating that nothing that we produce will ever be officially published. That was the gist of it. And that's the way that I've looked at it ever since. Ink Monkey material was home-brew when I first started investigating it. I like home-brew.

Nope!

At the time, John Chambers was the line developer for Exalted. Every single piece of official content had to go to him for approval so it could get published. His signing off on the Ink Monkeys content indicates that it's canon, not the other way around. This has been confirmed several times by everyone involved with Exalted (I also think it actually got mentioned on the blog itself) and several pieces of published Exalted content built off the things found in the Ink Monkeys blog.

So, no, the Ink Monkeys are just as official as anything you would find in Masters of Jade.

[Weimann]

Which, of course, doesn't mean you can't completely ignore it anyway. But saying it's not canon is false.