General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

[Story Time]

I suppose I'm expected to reply...

"Okay." There. Is that enough?

It probably won't change my decision either way.

[Yuki Akuma]

It'd be great if you didn't post things that might cause flame wars, though. Like "Looks like I can ban this, then!" without giving any explanation for why you're saying it.

Your Creation May Vary, of course. But everything published by the Ink Monkeys is canon - Zen Mu absolutely exists in the default setting (well, some of it might be left), the Daystar is absolutely a kung fu fighting robot, and so on. Just because it was published for free on the Internet doesn't make it any less official.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Story Time

I suppose I'm expected to reply...

"Okay." There. Is that enough?

It probably won't change my decision either way.

Well, yeah, White Wolf fired the canon ninjas in the last round of layoffs, so there's currently no one who will come to your house and murder you if you don't use or contradict canon material.

I wasn't trying to go "YOU MUST USE AND LOVE THE INK MONKEYS", I was just pointing out that they were in fact canon, not homebrew.

...although I do feel you're missing out on a lot by discounting them. But whatever! To each their own.

Unrelated subject: Ebon Dragon Charm that allows you to bind your opponent's soul to their corpse for eternity, experiencing everything around them but never able to interact with the world, while constantly twisting their memories and perceptions.

Juuuuuuuust right, or not evil enough?

[Qaera]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Well, yeah, White Wolf fired the canon ninjas in the last round of layoffs, so there's currently no one who will come to your house and murder you if you don't use or contradict canon material.

I wasn't trying to go "YOU MUST USE AND LOVE THE INK MONKEYS", I was just pointing out that they were in fact canon, not homebrew.

...although I do feel you're missing out on a lot by discounting them. But whatever! To each their own.

Unrelated subject: Ebon Dragon Charm that allows you to bind your opponent's soul to their corpse for eternity, experiencing everything around them but never able to interact with the world, while constantly twisting their memories and perceptions.

Juuuuuuuust right, or not evil enough?

Bodies decay. Spec Med for true evil. I think there's a Gentle Repose artifact if you don't want that.

~ ♅

[Bitter]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Unrelated subject: Ebon Dragon Charm that allows you to bind your opponent's soul to their corpse for eternity, experiencing everything around them but never able to interact with the world, while constantly twisting their memories and perceptions.

Juuuuuuuust right, or not evil enough?

What are the mechanical benefits?

Could be an Ebon Dragon version of Ghost-Eating Technique, but that would make it too similar to the charm that Malfeas has. Is it Godscorch Invective that kills spirits and then torments them for 10,000 years or something?

Perhaps it should allow you to turn them into walking dead when they die, giving their Po soul control of their body and you control over their Po soul while theiir Hun is forced to watch whatever depravities you command it to do?

[Yuki Akuma]

Ebon Dragon charms don't need to have mechanical benefits, as long as they have mechanical handicaps (or, for that matter, non-mechanical handicaps) for someone else.

Remember, the Ebon Dragon's Limit Break turns him into a puppy-kicking petty villain, and his abysmally low Virtues means that, unless he literally mind controls himself, he has trouble doing much other than making other people's lives miserable. A charm designed solely to be a **** is absolutely in-theme for his charm set.

[Gensh]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Unrelated subject: Ebon Dragon Charm that allows you to bind your opponent's soul to their corpse for eternity, experiencing everything around them but never able to interact with the world, while constantly twisting their memories and perceptions.

Juuuuuuuust right, or not evil enough?

I'm not sure why that isn't already a part of Life-Denying Hate. If he stops to kick every puppy, why doesn't his eternal damnation Charm affect puppies by default?

[Bitter]

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma

Ebon Dragon charms don't need to have mechanical benefits, as long as they have mechanical handicaps (or, for that matter, non-mechanical handicaps) for someone else.

Remember, the Ebon Dragon's Limit Break turns him into a puppy-kicking petty villain, and his abysmally low Virtues means that, unless he literally mind controls himself, he has trouble doing much other than making other people's lives miserable. A charm designed solely to be a **** is absolutely in-theme for his charm set.

Yes, mechanical handicaps for someone else is fine. The thing is, if the charm is just "When you die you suffer loads" that's not a mechanical effect of any kind, either negative for someone else or positive for yourself, it's a purely fluff effect.

Look at Radiant Fury Dissolution (The charm I was thinking of before). It has a very similar fluff effect about causing 10,000 years of agony to the victim as the one being considered, but it has actual mechanical benefits as well (Let's you kill spirits).

[Caliphbubba]

Hi Playgrounders,

I'm pretty much a Exalted newb.

I'm very interested in the story portions of Exalted and have been picking up different books here and there and reading the fluff parts of them and following your discussions on these threads for awhile now.

That said I feel like there is a lot of stuff I'm missing out on fluff-wise because I'm not reading the crunch of the charms and whatnot.

So my question to you all is this: Is it worth reading the Charms and stuff like that soly for the tid-bits of fluff that seem to be included?

[Turalisj]

Eddy already has Life-Denying Hate, which exiles a spirit into a realm of pure darkness for all eternity.

[Rockphed]

Originally Posted by Friv

Really? I don't recall that - I remember a discussion about a couple of the power players planning to assassinate Balor. However, I have to thank you, because now you've helped me to decide what not just the Sun, but the other Incarnae were doing for the whole Crusade. It is now just a picture in my head of the Sun very slowly staggering towards the door of the Jade Pleasure Dome, with Luna and the Maidens draped all over him desperately trying to hold him back long enough to keep him from dropping into the middle of the invasion and dying, because Saturn knows that if the Sun goes down there, he'll seriously die, and they can slow him down now because he broke his oath by trying to leave. The Empress triggers her attack just as he beats the other Incarnae by reaching the front door.

Spoiler

"Venus! Grab his leg!"
"I am grabbing his leg!"
"That is not his leg, Venus."
"Shut up, Jupiter!"
"Whatever! I've got his upper left arm! Mercury, grab his spear!"
"No thanks. I'm not Venus."
"His actual spear, Mercury."
"Oh. Right. Got it."
"LET GO OF ME! I MUST PROTECT CREATION!"
"You are going to die. Really, honestly, die."
"Luna, hide the spear!"
"Done. Oh, he's grabbed it again. Okay, it's better hidden this time."
"Mercury, give us a push or something!"
"I'm trying!"
"You could help, Saturn!"
"T-touch him? No, no I couldn't. You're doing fine."

I never did thank you for this. It both paints Sol Invictus in a much better light and is hilarious. *Hat off*

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Caliphbubba

Hi Playgrounders,

I'm pretty much a Exalted newb.

I'm very interested in the story portions of Exalted and have been picking up different books here and there and reading the fluff parts of them and following your discussions on these threads for awhile now.

That said I feel like there is a lot of stuff I'm missing out on fluff-wise because I'm not reading the crunch of the charms and whatnot.

So my question to you all is this: Is it worth reading the Charms and stuff like that soly for the tid-bits of fluff that seem to be included?

Depends. It gives you a good feel for the scale and power of some of the folks involved, but a lot of the charms are purely mechanical crunchy goodness. If you want to read some charms, I'd suggest going with Infernal charms first. They, IMO, contain the most fluff out of the charmsets, detailing as they often do the life and times of the yozis. If it's not fluffy enough for you, I don't think other charmsets will be either.

[Caliphbubba]

Originally Posted by golentan

Depends. It gives you a good feel for the scale and power of some of the folks involved, but a lot of the charms are purely mechanical crunchy goodness. If you want to read some charms, I'd suggest going with Infernal charms first. They, IMO, contain the most fluff out of the charmsets, detailing as they often do the life and times of the yozis. If it's not fluffy enough for you, I don't think other charmsets will be either.

Thanks for the recommendation. I find the yozis/primordials pretty interesting to begin with. They're one of the things I like the best about the setting so that will a good place to start.

[Ifni]

Hi all, over on the PbP boards we have an Exalted game that's looking for an ST. The original ST got as far as selecting a group and starting an OOC thread, and then vanished (a couple of weeks ago). I was fairly enthusiastic about the characters and the potential interactions between them, so I'd still like to see if we can get the game going.

The group is mixed Celestial Exalts - two Infernals, two Solars, one Abyssal and one Lunar - but the Infernals and the Abyssal are all renegades (in the well-and-truly-burned-their-bridges sense, not the "wondering if the Reclamation is such a great idea" sense). As initially envisaged, we'd be playing in the forests of the East: 4/6 PCs are barbarian/wilderness types.

(We have a cheerfully bloodthirsty bear-totem Full Moon, a very innocent Zenith jungle-girl, a friendly optimistic Scourge who mostly just wants to stay free and work against the Underworld, a Slayer who's convinced that the Immaculate Order is right and all Celestial Exalts sacrificed their souls to demons for power (since hey, that's what he did!), a snarky Realm-born teenage Eclipse, and a nihilist teenage Midnight.)

Anyway, if you might be interested in STing for us, the recruiting thread is here and the OOC thread is here.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by Ifni

a Slayer who's convinced that the Immaculate Order is right and all Celestial Exalts sacrificed their souls to demons for power (since hey, that's what he did!),

I'm not ready to ST, but... whoever's charrie that is, tell them that's an awesome character concept. xD

[Ifni]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I'm not ready to ST, but... whoever's charrie that is, tell them that's an awesome character concept. xD

It gets better - he's carrying around a stash of Exalted Chick Tracts He posted a sample in the OOC.

(The Zenith jungle-girl has a Gold Faction Sidereal mentor. If he ever meets her new Circle, it's going to be a very special moment.)

[Bitter]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I'm not ready to ST, but... whoever's charrie that is, tell them that's an awesome character concept. xD

Aw shucks.

Also as Ifni brought it up, here's the Chick Tract which I can't take credit for:

Spoiler

[Lix Lorn]

...win. xD

(Although you probably want to spoiler that. It's big.)

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I'm not ready to ST, but... whoever's charrie that is, tell them that's an awesome character concept. xD

Thank you. Not my character, but I did basically the identical thing with a fiend once. He was the most self hating person ever: He counted as reviled (since he had once had a positive intimacy towards himself) and had the Intolerable Burning Truths that made him "refuse to believe anything good about a reviled character," and made helping reviled characters without imminent threat to life and limb or in service to motivation unacceptable orders.

Yeah...

Originally Posted by Bitter

Aw shucks.

Also as Ifni brought it up, here's the Chick Tract which I can't take credit for:

Spoiler

Win. Permission to share that?

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by golentan

Thank you. Not my character, but I did basically the identical thing with a fiend once. He was the most self hating person ever: He counted as reviled (since he had once had a positive intimacy towards himself) and had the Intolerable Burning Truths that made him "refuse to believe anything good about a reviled character," and made helping reviled characters without imminent threat to life and limb or in service to motivation unacceptable orders.

Yeah...

Yiiikes. Can I give him a hug?

[Story Time]

Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma

It'd be great if you didn't post things that might cause flame wars, though. Like "Looks like I can ban this, then!" without giving any explanation for why you're saying it.

...I've already experienced flames through private messages last year. I wasn't impressed. Ponies...Yuki's thoughts on ponies did impress me. I still want to run that game...

In any case the difference between firm and belligerent is fairly clear. I have no intention of tossing hate on people because of their choices, likes, or dislikes. I may disagree, but the second I start using conflict in a conversation and say, "No, you're wrong," then it can become disruptive.

I know where the line is... I just wish more people were on my side of the line than the other.


About canon, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, I've gotten past it. Here in the General Discussion Thread what is, or is not, canon might have some weight. But conflict over it is worse than pointless. Putting together a Fluff Patch for Exalted's setting has shown me that the canon does conflict with itself. Much. If I run a game, it's my job to address those conflicts clearly. The Ink Monkey content having a formal name simply makes that process easier.

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Well, yeah, White Wolf fired the canon ninjas in the last round of layoffs

You know, you're kind of funny... Maybe once Sidereal Errata is exposed we'll get some of our ninja back.

[Tavar]

It's not flaming to call someone out on glaring inconsistencies in a debate, nor to repeatedly ask them to clarify a position after receiving no answer.

[Revlid]

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

Unrelated subject: Ebon Dragon Charm that allows you to bind your opponent's soul to their corpse for eternity, experiencing everything around them but never able to interact with the world, while constantly twisting their memories and perceptions.

Juuuuuuuust right, or not evil enough?

Might this be something close to your needs?

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Yiiikes. Can I give him a hug?

No, but you can give me a hug and I'll pass it on.

[horngeek]

That link diverts to Wikipedia for some reason.

[Turalisj]

Originally Posted by horngeek

That link diverts to Wikipedia for some reason.

Are you looking at it from your phone? Gotta set the default browser viewing to where it won't auto-switch to mobile adapted sites.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by golentan

No, but you can give me a hug and I'll pass it on.

I am okay with this. (hugs Golly)

[Bitter]

Originally Posted by golentan

Win. Permission to share that?

Sure, go wild.

[Gensh]

A slightly more interesting take on the whole "Queen of Hell" thing (from a Skype convo yesterday):

Spoiler

So back in the day, everyone who attempted to get to the Imperial Manse control room died, except young Scarlet, who at some point made a deal with the Ebon Dragon for power and immortality. But see, there aren't any Charms for this. I mean, he could use adapted Cecy Charms, and the Wedding Band effectively makes her a Yozi in her own right, but that's pretty lame.

Back when the Usurpation hit, the Solars reacted in various ways. That one Solar/Lunar couple who never became corrupt went down trying to protect their mortal kingdom from rape-and-pillage dragonblooded. Desus got tricked and backstabbed like a loser. Reactions varied from person to person, based on character and madness.

Queen Merela, now fully aware that even she had lost the favor of Sol, flew into a Malfean, self-aggrandizing rage. She hated herself for becoming a new King of the Titans but she equally hated all her peers for falling with her, just as Malfeas does. Likewise did she hate the dragonblooded and Sidereals for being such cowards even though she consciously knew they couldn't have rebelled fairly. Enraged, she became a blazing sun of vengeance, killing everything nearby. Incidentally, *this* is how 200-something Solars managed to die all at once - friendly fire. While the Sidereals were able to trap the shards of all those that died around her, she would not submit and literally supernova'd, taking anyone left alive with her, her still blazing shard vanishing into the night, burning through space and finding the place it truly belonged, the place of eternal self-inflicted torment – Hell.

The Dragon, of course, found it first. He whispered calming lies to it and took it into his claws, clumsily copying the motions he'd seen Autochthon make on lesser projects. He forged a prototype that he would later refine to create the Green Sun Princes, but without the power of his fellows, he could only change so much. Yet the shard resisted him and would not be contained. He sent demon after demon into Creation, seeking the orihalcum band that had once been Merela's unofficial "engagement" ring from her godly lover. This he reforged in vitriol and his own spite, attuning it with the corrupted but still strong shard. He merely had to wait to find another headstrong young woman whom the shard could bond with.

The young Scarlet wasn't merely offered support in her venture within the Imperial Manse but rather legitimate rulership of Creation. She would be Queen of the children of Gaia and the Chosen who had ruled before them at once - should she reveal her fully glory, none could gainsay her. Yet something happened that the Dragon did not expect: the Empress-to-be took Merela's memories as her own. She did not resist but she did not bow; she became at once the dragonblooded lieutenant who had made the deal and the still-furious Solar Queen, who banished the Dragon's possessed soul without a second thought and marched into the manse's control room unopposed by the automated defenses.

Throughout her reign, she has supported the Wyld Hunt out of spite for her former peers who had become drunk on power and for their Mates who had been so cowardly as to flee to the Wyld. Yet above all else, she continues to hate herself for falling just as far, if not farther. She has groomed Mnemon to be a rival to her so that she can never rest on her laurels and supports the Roseblack in secret so that Mnemon may not rest either. She knew that the Dragon must one day eventually claim his due and bargained with those among the third circle who still remember nobility, she had made plans to thwart her husband-to-be long before he set his own plans in motion. Now, trapped in Hell yet again, she can only wait and hope that her daughter can rise to be the hero she once was and guide Creation to a peaceful future. Yet in her heart of hearts, she hopes above all else that Sol will find it in his heart to come for her, warped as she has become not just by the Ultimate Darkness but by her own.

[Lix Lorn]

That sounds awesome.