General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

[Turalisj]

I love that idea Gensh.

[horngeek]

Dammit Gensh, I already wanted to Play RotSE pretty badly, now you throw something as awesome as that out!

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by horngeek

Dammit Gensh, I already wanted to Play RotSE pretty badly, now you throw something as awesome as that out!

So do Iiii.

[Weimann]

2.5 update.

Originally Posted by hatewheel

Update 2/18/12 PM 4:44

We have finished reviewing the 2.5 errata and are putting on the last touches. We are reviewing the Sidereal errata and will be working finishing it over the weekend. I will make another post on Monday to let you know where we are.

A few notes:

Unobstructed Blow, Horrific Wreath, and Crimson Palm Counterstrike are being rewritten as Throne Shadow extensions. Lover's Oath is being adjusted. We are looking at giving it an Overdrive interaction.

Most Essence-restoring Charms have been rewritten to perform a different mechanical function.

Lightspeed Body Dynamics has been removed from the system.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Wow Gensh, just wow.

[Andreaz]

Originally Posted by Weimann

2.5 update.

Hehehe yay! No more LBD ò.ó
I'm a fan of tank-ish builds. Here's hoping 2.5 enables me to make a heavy-duty soak character.

[Turalisj]

Yeah, I really hope my soak-focused Zenith get's some help with the errata.

[Weimann]

TDO did say that "Spirit Strengthens the Skin cleans up really nicely". So hopefully, yeah. Making non-perfect soak viable must be in the vein of what they're trying to do here.

[Turalisj]

The two prereq soak charms to Adamant Skin Technique are wasted charm slots, as it stands.

[Lix Lorn]

I once built a character around a non-perfect soak charm. She did pretty well, as it was easily optimisable and turned out as basically a slightly cheaper not-quite-perfect.

[Andreaz]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I once built a character around a non-perfect soak charm. She did pretty well, as it was easily optimisable and turned out as basically a slightly cheaper not-quite-perfect.

That's because iron skin concentration is overpowered :p

[Lix Lorn]

Lalala Can't Hear Yoooou

[Draken]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Lalala Can't Hear Yoooou

But this is a written medium.

[Lord Raziere]

What? Sorry, I'm suddenly blind, can you repeat that through sound like a voicemail?

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by Draken

But this is a written medium.

Shhhhhhhh!

[The Demented One]

Originally Posted by Weimann

TDO did say that "Spirit Strengthens the Skin cleans up really nicely". So hopefully, yeah. Making non-perfect soak viable must be in the vein of what they're trying to do here.

Spirit Strengthens the Skin and Durability of Oak Meditation are being made into defenses a Solar would actually want to use. Iron Skin Concentration is being made into something other than a 2m perfect soak.

[Rikandur Azebol]

I have a question to the Exalted savants out in the boards.

Do Mountain Folk possess bodies as reinforced as Exalted ? Healing and lethal soak, I mean. Or they are just like mortals ? I can't find anything in the books I have.

[Kyeudo]

Generel rule is "Supernaturals soak lethal with half Stamina".

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by The Demented One

Spirit Strengthens the Skin and Durability of Oak Meditation are being made into defenses a Solar would actually want to use. Iron Skin Concentration is being made into something other than a 2m perfect soak.

Maaan. I wish I could try and argue with this, but I love that charm partly because of how OP it is, so....

[Lord Raziere]

ok, I've done some thinking….

if I want to remove Resonance and Abyssals Heroes of the Dead possible, I need to change the very motivation the Neverborn had for making the Abyssals, and indeed the Deathlords.

but what epic motivation would allow the Neverborn to make such Abyssals while still making them threats to oppose? and how would the Great Contagion come about from this altered motivation?

What if….the Neverborn instead want to replace Creation with the Underworld, but not drag everything down into Oblivion? after all, the Underworld is just Creation, without the fatal flaw that the Neverborn removed: life.
Therefore, the Neverborn reason: kill all life in Creation, replace it with Underworld, and have an eternal perfect Creation 2.0 that will stand against the Wyld forever. But not destroy everything. Instead of Resonance, which is all about destroying everything and being doomed, it is more about the goal of killing all life so that everyone can enjoy an eternal unchanging afterlife- a form of heaven if you will.
The Neverborn want to improve things, they want to make a better Creation, they want to make everyone eternally happy…..by killing them all and enjoying an eternal afterlife paradise with no life to create chaos or screw things up.

Thats the optimistic interpretation. the pessimistic one is that they are wrapped up and lost in nostalgia, and want to be the almighty Primordials once again, so they try to remake Creation to be a dark broken shadow of it once was to try and relive their once great power…..but then again thats sounding too much like Yozis.
perhaps the Yozis in their rage want to destroy the world and make a new Creation in revenge….. eeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrgggghhh the Yozis and the Neverborn are too similar! They are too easily changed into each other!
but then again, they are both Primordial beings who lost so maybe that makes sense?

geh….or maybe I should go the opposite direction and say that since the Abyssal Exalted are intrinsic dark sides of the Solars, that the Abyssals existed before the Neverborn and therefore have an intrinsic Limit thing that the Neverborn can't touch and they are stuck with the weapon they have when they flipped the switch…..

this is difficult…..any thoughts on this?

edit: or maybe not all the Neverborn have the same goals….but sounds like making them Yozis too! darn it….

[Dragnar]

An interesting idea. But as your various annoyed sound effects indicate: One that's extremely difficult to get right without making either Abyssals or Infernals come out flat. Here's a couple alternate suggestions:

1. As you said, it would be possible to make it so that abyssals got a version of solar limit, "flipped" like the rest of their exaltation was. In this case, I'd suggest making it clear that, for most abyssals, the deathlords and their armies are more than enough incentive to not rebel. (Without that, Resonance servesthe important purpose of making sure the abyssals can't just flip their masters off and go rule creation too easily. They made their deal with the devil: The consequences should not be easy to ignore.)

2. Instead of changing how abyssals ARE, change what they CAN be. Write up some charms to go along with an alternate Redemption path, one that doesn't end in "is now a solar". I'd suggest the first charm break their connection to the neverborn, removing all Whispers and Avatar charms in exchange for changing resonance to something more like an extra-violent solar limit break. (Main question is how one goes about LEARNING such a charm... And, to be sure it isn't TOO easy, I'd recommend the process involve MULTIPLE resonance explosions.) Later ones would actually get you something back for sacrificing that stuff.

[Lord Raziere]

ehh…..1 doesn't sound that substantial to me….unless I play it up a lot

so….2. sounds like a good idea….

ok: expansion upon 2: Abyssals can defy the Neverborn through great sacrifice.
question is….what will you sacrifice? what DO you sacrifice? I think I'd be willing to give up a few things for freedom from the Neverborns grasp……

will have to think upon this….

[Revlid]

Raziere, why do you want to play an Abyssal, in particular?

What is it about them that appeals to you, if not their purpose, methods, or fate?

Is it purely the aesthetic? If so, there's a Solar Charm that lets them have that.

The Abyssals are the Exalted ideal, taken to its logical conclusion; for all their glories and achievements, for all their airs and graces, the Exalted Host were created as a murder weapon, a blade that would wield itself. Just as the Solars could only have been made by the Unconquered Sun, and he could only have made the Solars, the Abyssals could only have been brought into existence by the Neverborn, those who recognize the true nature of the Exalted; things that kill worlds.

The Abyssal Exalted aren't the Chosen of the Dead. They're the Chosen of Murder.

[Lord Raziere]

yea, but the aesthetic is not permanent, and I don't get Void Circle Necromancy. it only lasts for one day, and I only get Labyrinth Circle Necromancy.

edit: and as for why….I honestly have no idea why I keep coming back to "I wanna play an Abyssal" yet dislike what Abyssals basically are, yet at the same time, am not interested/dislike in Solars even though they are basically want I want. yet for some reason Infernals aren't quite exactly right either. its confounding. I don't I know what I want…..

[Lix Lorn]

hey guys i just wrote this awesome fanficiton

i call it dragonbloods; reprecussions of evil
here is is i hope you like it

Spoiler

Peleps Deled waited. The stars above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the realm. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Chejpo kejak were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
Deled was an immaculate for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the dragons and he said to dad "I want to be a monk daddy."
Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS"
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the threshold of the realm he knew there were demons.
"This is kejack" the radio crackered. "You must fight the demons!"
So Deled gotted his elementals and blew up the wall.
"HE GOING TO KILL US" said the demons
"I will shoot at him" said the lunar demon and he fired the essence missiles. Deled elemented at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
"No! I must kill the demons" he shouted
The radio said "No, Deled. You are the demons"
And then Deled was a solar.

If you can't tell, this post is a parody and a joke. This is based on the doom fanfic repercussions of evil. I don't actually write like that. xD

[Lord Raziere]

Ok then….I'm just gonna resort to pure ruthless elimination to determine what I like about Exalted by weighing pros and cons. no crunch, judge by pure fluff.

Abyssals
Pros: cool dark aesthetic, Necromancy
Cons: Resonance, themes
Verdict: nope, can't live with the cons over the pros, Abyssals are eliminated.

Solars
Pros: Artifacts, Sorcery
Cons: Stupid shiny sun aesthetic
Verdict: don't know how to feel about them.

Dragon-Blooded
Pros: Elemental Powers, dynastic best fluff
Cons: Teamwork, Weakest Exalted
Verdict: I don't how to feel about them.

Alchemicals
Pros: Technology! Robots! Techno-Awesome!
Cons: Clarity
Verdict: don't know how to feel about them.

Raksha
Pros: be anything I want, make anything I want
Cons: weaker than Dragon-Blooded
Verdict: don't know how to feel about them.

Lunars
Pros: Shapeshifting, illusions, tricksters
Cons: are barbarians/low technology
Verdict: I can live with them.

Sidereals
Pros: ninjas, martial arts, scheming and such.
Cons: a little limited, convoluted and such.
Verdict: I can live with them.

Infernals
Pros: weirdness, devil-tigers, cool powers in general
Cons: have to wait for Devil Tiger
Verdict: I can live with them.

So yeah, according to my own trial by elimination, I don't actually have a problem with Sidereals, Lunars or Infernals fluffwise. Abyssals are outright eliminated.

But Alchemicals, Solars, Raksha and Dragon-Blooded all occupy this middle zone where there is some detail that is off about them that I can't quite accept. I guess I was just trying to go for Abyssals because they were just like Solars without the stupid sun aesthetic.

but now how to figure out to deal with those middle four….guess I'll just have to find a way to accept those limitations…..and technically I already have for Solars and Dragon-Blooded, and I guess I can find a way for Raksha and Alchemicals to….Alchemicals will probably be easier, since Clarity is not as bad as Resonance……and I guess that if I can accept Dragon-Blooded as they, I can accept Raksha as they are too…..

[golentan]

Wait, clarity by itself is enough for you to not know how to feel about alchemicals? It's absurdly easy to manage clarity at low levels, unless you need it for Protocol Weaving, it should almost never come up unless it's integral to your character concept. Really, the options for having high clarity boil down to "protocol weaving," "I'm actively trying for transhumanism" or "I've chosen a virtue spread opposite my assigned role and must suppress it regularly."

[Lord Raziere]

ok then, if that is the case I can live with Alchemicals.

and since I've found ways to accept Dragon-Blooded and Solars….all thats left is to somehow find a way to accept Raksha are not as powerful as Exalts……but unlike the Dragon-Blooded, they have no "they were designed that way" as an excuse. they come from the Wyld. infinite possibility and all that. Why aren't they more powerful? wheres all the Exalt-powered possibilities of the Wyld?

[Ganurath]

Raziere, an individual Raksha has all the power of an entire nation at their disposal. With the Cup, an Entertainer may entrance entire communities into depending on what is effectively snake oil, and offering up their very minds and souls to the Raksha for just another fix. With the Ring, a Worker may forge entire cities where there was once nothing, are create devices of perfection that would make a Twilight soil himself with sheer envy. With the Staff, entire nations can be raised from a whim, ready to fight and die for their master so that she doesn't need to lift a finger when the Wyld Hunt comes for her. With the Sword, armies are lead to glorious victory, and all of the world trembles before the raw might that Dragon-Bloods would be lucky to achieve with Excellencies.

And that's in Creation, where they are weakest.

[golentan]

So, I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but in line with Lord Raz's list of exalt types and his feelings for them, I thought I'd share what I realized about the exalts I like.

See, the thing is I have a preference for exalts who serve some outside force.

My favorite: Alchemicals, are obvious. They serve their nations and their god loyally.

Terrestrials, my next favorite, historically serve other exalts. Whether it be solars, sidereals, or other terrestrials within their dynasty it is the Terrestrial's place to labor for a greater good.

Infernals, my choice after that, serve the yozis and the reclamation by default.

Sidereals, the least favorite of the exalts I REALLY like, work by an large for the Bureau of destiny, but are so wrapped up in trying to govern the dragonblooded and have such an overall rocky relationship with heaven that it doesn't click in the same way. But I want to make it clear I do still enjoy them.

Lunars, the last of the exalts I find tolerable, work for the silver pact and have a deep connection to their solar mates, but tend to be rampant individualists.

Solars, at least by thematic, I can't stand, because in canon they recognize no higher masters. They are the leaders, all others are supposed to follow.

Abyssals are at the absolute bottom of my list, because while they nominally serve the deathlords and neverborn, in my mind what they serve is their own self interest. They are so wrapped up in themselves they are willing to sell out the rest of existence for a little more life, and no amount of loyalty to their cause can justify that in my mind.

Raksha don't even deserve to be on the list. No convictions, no honor, just passion play and destruction.

Mind, this is just general. And I love stories where they break out of the roles defined for them by the universe. I like playing an Alchemical who decides to lead, an infernal who rejects the yozis, a ronin who defects from heaven for his convictions, or even a solar whose loyalties lead him to give up his direct power. But I enjoy it because in my mind it IS playing against type, and so forms basis for conflict and through conflict story.