The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

[RMS Oceanic]

Originally Posted by Skavensrule

So let's follow Denyala's advice and look for a very large pillow. (non-cloning variety please, that is a little creepy, plus Rich already has a beard so what would his evil twin/clone do)

Will Riker had a full beard, Thomas Riker had a goatee. Simple!

[Lotus]

It sure was a lot of fun to watch all the kickstarter stuff. I've been reading OOTS since 2004 (right after Rich did the 8-bit theater guest comic) but I never bothered joining the forum. Just joining up now to say that it was fun to see Rich have such success with kickstarter, and to say thanks for all the great entertainment over the past years.

[Armitage]

Originally Posted by Xapi

Unrelated to that, I don't think the Giant would release something like that because of the quality loss from PDF to JPG.

Why should there be a quality loss? If anything, CBR/CBZ are better as these are just losslessly compressed original pictures.
The pictures in a PDF on the other hand are scaled and possibly compressed using a lossy algorithm.

[Baelzar]

How do Kickstarter funds qualify re: taxes?

Straight income? Because...ow. Add State/Local, and you'll be looking at about half going to the gubmint.

[Flame of Anor]

Originally Posted by Xapi

Creating your own CBZ or CBR file is incredibly easy.

Unrelated to that, I don't think the Giant would release something like that because of the quality loss from PDF to JPG.

They can be PNG.

[RMS Oceanic]

Originally Posted by Baelzar

How do Kickstarter funds qualify re: taxes?

Straight income? Because...ow. Add State/Local, and you'll be looking at about half going to the gubmint.

We have been previously advised by the mods before not to speculate on this as we are not tax lawyers or accountants.

[Skavensrule]

Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic

Will Riker had a full beard, Thomas Riker had a goatee. Simple!

Sneaky, I had forgotten about that one.

And thank you for reminding everyone about what the Mods said: Fellow Forumites, we are not tax-professionals and the Forum Rules do specifically mention things like this.

[Moorbo]

Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic

We have been previously advised by the mods before not to speculate on this as we are not tax lawyers or accountants.

Originally Posted by Skavensrule

And thank you for reminding everyone about what the Mods said: Fellow Forumites, we are not tax-professionals and the Forum Rules do specifically mention things like this.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/annou...t.php?f=22&a=1 Hint: I've done the most I can do as a courtesy.

Anyways I'm surprised how many people have been worried about taxes both here and on kickstarter. Revenue != Profit

Originally Posted by Xapi

Creating your own CBZ or CBR file is incredibly easy.

Unrelated to that, I don't think the Giant would release something like that because of the quality loss from PDF to JPG.

I haven't seen those file types before, but what are the benefits of CBZ or CBR vs making a pdf slideshow especially since you'd need a special viewer to look at them? Also Rich just said he is sending us pdfs; I doubt that he draws directly in them. He probably uses an image format and converts to pdf.

[Xapi]

Originally Posted by Armitage

Why should there be a quality loss? If anything, CBR/CBZ are better as these are just losslessly compressed original pictures.
The pictures in a PDF on the other hand are scaled and possibly compressed using a lossy algorithm.

I disagree, I'm quite certain Adobe exports directly to PDF with little to no loss.

[Armitage]

Originally Posted by Moorbo

I haven't seen those file types before, but what are the benefits of CBZ or CBR vs making a pdf slideshow especially since you'd need a special viewer to look at them?

Putting pictures into a PDF is like sending someone pictures as a Word file.
Why use a file format that's not intended for that kind of information?

PDF is a format for documents - mixed content. If you only have one kind of content (pictures) a dedicated format is the better choice.

Originally Posted by Moorbo

Also Rich just said he is sending us pdfs; I doubt that he draws directly in them. He probably uses an image format and converts to pdf.

Which means information (read: quality) gets lost by converting them into PDF.


But yes, I'm aware that most people prefer the convenient over the sensible.
So I expect the stories to arrive in PDF format, and I just have to overcome my IT sensibilities. (Just as I have to accept my customers sending me screenshots as Word files...)

[Xapi]

Originally Posted by Moorbo

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/annou...t.php?f=22&a=1 Hint: I've done the most I can do as a courtesy.

Anyways I'm surprised how many people have been worried about taxes both here and on kickstarter. Revenue != Profit




I haven't seen those file types before, but what are the benefits of CBZ or CBR vs making a pdf slideshow especially since you'd need a special viewer to look at them? Also Rich just said he is sending us pdfs; I doubt that he draws directly in them. He probably uses an image format and converts to pdf.

1 - CBZ and CBR are in my opinion nothing at all, they're just a zip with a bunch of jpgs or pngs that a given software unzips (or unrars) and shows to you. Personally, I'd prefer the jpgs or pngs over that.

2 - The Giant works in Adobe Photoshop. From my admitedly short experience, Photoshop files are quite heavy and require special software to see (IE, not necesarily Photoshop itself, but a Photo editor of some sort at least, like GIMP). He will ALWAYS have to export that into a more reader friendly format. The quality loss from Photoshop to PDFs is minimal, I believe in the same ballpark as the loss to PNG (Which is what we see in the comic).

The difference is that a single PDF file can carry a full story, while PNGs are one page at a time.

And we go back to CBZ/CBR, wich lets you treat a bunch of PNGs as a single file. But you need a CBZ viewer (not something every computer has, like a PDF reader), and The Giant would have to take an extra step (first exporting everything to PNG, then creating the CBZ/CBR.

[Xapi]

Originally Posted by Armitage

Which means information (read: quality) gets lost by converting them into PDF.


But yes, I'm aware that most people prefer the convenient over the sensible.
So I expect the stories to arrive in PDF format, and I just have to overcome my IT sensibilities. (Just as I have to accept my customers sending me screenshots as Word files...)

Loss of quality will happen regardless of the format, because he will not send us the original Adobe file he worked on.

Given an equal standing between PNG and PDF, PDF is better because it allows a single file to carry all the strips.

Also, I made a mistake before, it should say Ilustrator where I wrote Photoshop.

[tomorrowboy]

Originally Posted by Xapi

And we go back to CBZ/CBR, wich lets you treat a bunch of PNGs as a single file. But you need a CBZ viewer (not something every computer has, like a PDF reader), and The Giant would have to take an extra step (first exporting everything to PNG, then creating the CBZ/CBR.

Not every computer has a PDF reader, and the versions on those mean that not every PDF reader can read all PDFs.

It's not like CBZ/CBR files require you to buy Photoshop or something to view them, the programs that use them are available online for free.

Also, the extra step of creating the CBZ file would be pretty minimal.

Personally, I've read comics on computers both as PDFs and CBZ files, and I prefer using the CBZ programs. I'm not saying that only CBZ files should available, I'm just wondering if they could also be made avaialable.

[Moorbo]

Originally Posted by Xapi

I disagree, I'm quite certain Adobe exports directly to PDF with little to no loss.

Didn't know that. Never used Adobe for generating images so I assumed Rich would need to convert from a image format to pdf.

[Xapi]

Originally Posted by tomorrowboy

Not every computer has a PDF reader, and the versions on those mean that not every PDF reader can read all PDFs.

I've never had a problem with PDF versions that stopped me from reading what I was going to read. Also, we both know the vast mayority of computers have already installed the software to read such a widely used format, whereas this is certainly not true for CBZ/CBR.

It's not like CBZ/CBR files require you to buy Photoshop or something to view them, the programs that use them are available online for free.

I found CBZ software to be clunky, but that's not the issue because as you say:

Personally, I've read comics on computers both as PDFs and CBZ files, and I prefer using the CBZ programs. I'm not saying that only CBZ files should available, I'm just wondering if they could also be made avaialable.

I know, I just think you'll be in the vast minority there, and it would probably make more sense that you make those files for yourself.

It's not just converting to another format, he'd also have to ask each backer in which format he wants his stuff.

[Porthos]

re: The whole PDF-CBZ/CBR debate:

I like to think of myself as at least somewhat computer literate, and I've never heard of these files before today. And if I've never heard of them, I think it's a fairly safe bet that a large chunk of Rich's readership hasn't either.

So what's the point of Rich devoting time and resources that is only going to appeal to a sliver of the readership base when he could use that time on other things?

You see, standards are a standard for a reason: Ease of use and simplicity.

And whether it offends people IT sensibilities or not, I suspect a heck of a lot more people have PDF readers right this very second than CBZ/CBR ones.

[The Derider]

I had a question about the Kickstarter stories. I know that there is a possibility that at a point during/after 2013, they could be released in book format (I hope this happens!), but for the PDF release, will there be any commentary on the stories like there are in the print compilations?

And unrelated to that, I am so glad the kickstarter succeeded as much as it did. I own all the print books already, and I intend to buy any more that come out. I backed it early, figuring I'd get a fun story out of it before O-Chul comes to prominence in the main book and help reprint one of the books, but holy crap! I'm amazed to see how much attention Mr. Burlew put in to the kickstarter, and what both he and the fans will get out of it. I know tortured artists can put out great work, but I'm looking forward to what a happy artist will put out!

Also, there's a part of me that hopes the newest Mystery Prize is...

Spoiler

A bi-monthly Julio Scoundrel release, all the way from Issue #1.

And I know that won't happen, but I can dream, can't I?

[Moorbo]

Don't know how much quality it keeps but there is an online converter for pdf to cbz: http://pdf-to-cbz.net/

Edit: Although if the pdfs are larger than 10MB that won't work.

[The Giant]

I haven't forgotten about the last comic in the consecutive run, it's just taking a very long time and I couldn't finish it yesterday. Lots of complicated art. It will be up in few hours.

[Crisis21]

Originally Posted by The Giant

I haven't forgotten about the last comic in the consecutive run, it's just taking a very long time and I couldn't finish it yesterday. Lots of complicated art. It will be up in few hours.

Looking forward to it.

[happyturtle]

Hi Rich. I just want to say thank you for being awesome.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Originally Posted by The Giant

I haven't forgotten about the last comic in the consecutive run, it's just taking a very long time and I couldn't finish it yesterday. Lots of complicated art. It will be up in few hours.

This news makes me very happy.

[honigmuffin]

Originally Posted by The Derider

I had a question about the Kickstarter stories. I know that there is a possibility that at a point during/after 2013, they could be released in book format (I hope this happens!), but for the PDF release, will there be any commentary on the stories like there are in the print compilations?

I remember mentioning the Giant somewhere in the first thread (y'know, the one with 100+ pages) that he might consider it. It'd be cool to have some commentary in the PDF stories

Originally Posted by The Giant

Lots of complicated art.

Waiting for complicated art is no problem for me

Edit:

Originally Posted by The Derider

Spoiler

A bi-monthly Julio Scoundrel release, all the way from Issue #1.

That would be AWESOME!!!

[SarahV]

Originally Posted by Xapi

I disagree, I'm quite certain Adobe exports directly to PDF with little to no loss.

This is correct. I'm the production manager at a print magazine and everything we send to the press is in PDF, and all of the ads people send us are PDF. As far as I know most publications and ad agencies use a PDF workflow now. Back in the early days of digital prepress (~10 years ago) I would get people arguing with me because they thought PDF was a lossy web format, but the beauty of it is that it can do everything: lossy low-file-size versions of the document, or press-ready font-embedded high-res lossless perfection. It can pretty much contain anything you want, as long as you know what you're doing.

For something like this comic, PDF is awesome because it can contain vector graphics and fonts without rasterizing them (rasterize = convert to a pixelated image) - meaning you can view it larger on your screen or zoom way in without it getting all jagged and blurry. PNG, JPG and GIF can't do that. (Now, I don't know enough about how The Giant creates his files to say whether it is feasible to do it that way or not, but the file format is certainly capable of it.)

[ThePhantasm]

Originally Posted by The Giant

I haven't forgotten about the last comic in the consecutive run, it's just taking a very long time and I couldn't finish it yesterday. Lots of complicated art. It will be up in few hours.

"Lots of complicated art." Sounds great to me!

[Elder Tsofu]

Originally Posted by Xapi

He will ALWAYS have to export that into a more reader friendly format. The quality loss from Photoshop to PDFs is minimal, I believe in the same ballpark as the loss to PNG (Which is what we see in the comic).

No, we see .gif in the comic.

[Xapi]

Originally Posted by Elder Tsofu

No, we see .gif in the comic.

You are right, it is the Kickstarter Drive banner that was a PNG. Still, the point stands.

[Skavensrule]

Originally Posted by honigmuffin

Waiting for complicated art is no problem for me

Originally Posted by ThePhantasm

"Lots of complicated art." Sounds great to me!

Ditto and ditto!

[Mighty]

Yay, money was taken from my account today Which is a weird thing to cheer about, but meh! Just happy that it didn't mess up. Now there's just the waiting (luckily had lots of practice at that when waiting for Snips, Snails and Dragontales ). I'm sure it'll be worth it as usual though

[darkelf]

as an aside, the files which are sent to the printer to print the super-high-quality glossy books we're shellin' out for? in all probability, PDF.