The Post-Kickstarter Discussion Thread: Bask in the Afterglow

[honigmuffin]

Mighty's comment made me check my online balance, and all three pledges went through

[hkhm]

i had a great deal of fun reading through the kickstarter comments each day, even though i rarely posted. i was in on day one and could barely leave my computer as i watched the drive progress, it was surprisingly exciting.

i must say i am greatly looking forward to the drawing i pledged for. every single person in my life (who knows about oots) guessed my chosen character at once. i even have a spot on my wall picked out where it will go once it is framed.

[Oink]

Originally Posted by Porthos

re: The whole PDF-CBZ/CBR debate:
...
So what's the point of Rich devoting time and resources that is only going to appeal to a sliver of the readership base when he could use that time on other things?

You see, standards are a standard for a reason: Ease of use and simplicity.
...

I think the whole discussion misses one of the core use cases: CBx files may contain single images instead of a whole page. This case makes it possible to view the comic on devices that have a screen which is too small to display the whole page.
So if Illustrator supports exporting to CBx, that might mean exporting not as a page but as single images - or not. And even if Illustrator supports this, there is still the question whether The Giant creates single images and combines them later or not.
Personally I'd love to be able to read OOTS on my Kindle (even if it is grayscale only) or eventually on a smartphone (once I get one - I just spent a bit of money on a certain Kickstarter project )

[Elder Tsofu]

Btw, I think it's quite cute to see ones idol/respected person get all giddy over his own idol/respected person.

[Flame of Anor]

Originally Posted by Xapi

2 - The Giant works in Adobe Photoshop. From my admitedly short experience, Photoshop files are quite heavy and require special software to see (IE, not necesarily Photoshop itself, but a Photo editor of some sort at least, like GIMP). He will ALWAYS have to export that into a more reader friendly format. The quality loss from Photoshop to PDFs is minimal, I believe in the same ballpark as the loss to PNG (Which is what we see in the comic).

No, the Giant works in Adobe Illustrator. It's entirely different--a vector graphics program. Vector graphics images are quite compact.

Originally Posted by The Giant

I haven't forgotten about the last comic in the consecutive run, it's just taking a very long time and I couldn't finish it yesterday. Lots of complicated art. It will be up in few hours.

[fergo]

Originally Posted by The Giant

I haven't forgotten about the last comic in the consecutive run, it's just taking a very long time and I couldn't finish it yesterday. Lots of complicated art. It will be up in few hours.

Lots of complicated art? This sounds awesome.

(For a moment I was thinking 'crayons!' but it wouldn't really fit in here ).

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I know the plan is to release four sets of 100 monster fold ups per quarter, for 400 monsters total. But is it possible to also release the Giantitp.com Stock Avatars as well? The work has already been done, and they make great minis for PCs as well. Or various NPC, townsfolks, pirate crews, etc...

Also, what is a Solith Knight? My Google-fu must be weak, because all I could find were some names for WoW Arena players...

[dakameleon]

Originally Posted by Oink

I think the whole discussion misses one of the core use cases: CBx files may contain single images instead of a whole page. This case makes it possible to view the comic on devices that have a screen which is too small to display the whole page.

All mobile devices (I assume that's what you're talking about) support PDF viewing, most natively. Almost all have a zoom mechanic that'll let you read it panel by panel. It might not be as convenient as through a CBx reader, but it is more compatible.

So if Illustrator supports exporting to CBx, that might mean exporting not as a page but as single images - or not. And even if Illustrator supports this, there is still the question whether The Giant creates single images and combines them later or not.

You can almost certainly bet that Illustrator doesn't support CBx natively - no doubt someone will trounce me and prove me wrong, but I would certainly suggest that the effort to produce a CBx file with proper panel-by-panel breakdowns would be disproportionate to the number of people who actually use and/or appreciate these files.

Personally I'd love to be able to read OOTS on my Kindle (even if it is grayscale only) or eventually on a smartphone (once I get one - I just spent a bit of money on a certain Kickstarter project )

You can already read PDFs on your Kindle, and as mentioned above certainly PDFs on whatever smartphone you get.

[Gwynfrid]

Originally Posted by The Giant

I haven't forgotten about the last comic in the consecutive run, it's just taking a very long time and I couldn't finish it yesterday. Lots of complicated art. It will be up in few hours.

Please take at least as much time as you need. Quality trumps speed every time.

The only mystery prize which personally I found not so appealing was the pledge to deliver 1 comic per day for seven days. It sure is exciting, but is it worth it ? I have gotten used to have every single comic come to me as a welcome surprise gift in my In-box. If they come faster then that's great but on a fixed schedule ? Not such a big deal.

At some point during the Kickstarter drive, reading some comments (a small minority of the total, to be fair) gave me a bit of a feeling that we are all a bunch of hungry bloodsucking bats, coming after Rich's lifeblood - ie. his creativity - yelling "more, more !" at the top of our collective lungs.

[Grey Watcher]

Originally Posted by Gwynfrid

Please take at least as much time as you need. Quality trumps speed every time.

The only mystery prize which personally I found not so appealing was the pledge to deliver 1 comic per day for seven days. It sure is exciting, but is it worth it ? I have gotten used to have every single comic come to me as a welcome surprise gift in my In-box. If they come faster then that's great but on a fixed schedule ? Not such a big deal.

At some point during the Kickstarter drive, reading some comments (a small minority of the total, to be fair) gave me a bit of a feeling that we are all a bunch of hungry bloodsucking bats, coming after Rich's lifeblood - ie. his creativity - yelling "more, more !" at the top of our collective lungs.

I should hope that, unlike his lifeblood, Rich does not have a finite amount of creativity. If anything, my own meagre experience working in an artistic fields says that creativity is enhanced, not diminished, by meeting greater demands. It's a skill, and it improves with practice. So really, by clamoring for more, more, and even more, we're just helping him grow into a better and better writer and artist.

[Porthos]

Reposted by request (sort of).

Originally Posted by Porthos

Achievement Unlocked - A Head Goes Kersplooie (Be the subject of a tweet from Neil Gaiman)

[Xapi]

Originally Posted by Flame of Anor

No, the Giant works in Adobe Illustrator. It's entirely different--a vector graphics program. Vector graphics images are quite compact.

I corrected myself on my next post.

[Smolder]

Originally Posted by Elder Tsofu

Btw, I think it's quite cute to see ones idol/respected person get all giddy over his own idol/respected person.

I have a huge amount of respect for both of them.

Hmmm... can you imagine a Rich Burlew / Neil Gaiman collaboration?

It would be a comic noire graphic novel about a distopian fantasy world full of brooding fallen deities, genre-savvy villains and murderous midgets.

And best of all, if they had a Kickstarter to raise the funds, I'd have a chance to get something with both of their autographs on it!

[honigmuffin]

Originally Posted by Porthos

Achievement Unlocked - A Head Goes Kersplooie (Be the subject of a tweet from Neil Gaiman)

Ahem. Excuse me for a moment while I do another happy-dance through the house. (And prance into the cellar so as not to wake anyone with my enormous SQUEEEEEEE. There should be more E's, but my poor keyboard suffered enough already with the constant refreshing of the Kickstarter site.)

Neil Gaiman, one of my favourite authors, tweets about OotS, my favourite webcomic. That's so incredibly AWESOME!!!

You keep using that word. I do think it means what you think it means.

[Porthos]

The slightly scary thing is that people were still trying to pour in when the clock struck zero. What would the total have been if it were a 45 day drive or a 60 day one?

Sure a lot toward the end was being driven by the "patience" rewards, which Rich could NOT have kept up with, and it would have eventually slowed back down again. And another large part was being driven by the "remind me" function.

Heck, I fully believe that if the drive went much longer, Rich would have collapsed in exhaustion, which probably would have put a damper on things.

Still, I look at those last two days, and see the people that were trying to still get in and I can't help but wonder where it would have ended had there been more time. Maybe this drive was always destined for a feeding frenzy at the end. Maybe no amount of leadup would have stopped that.

But I still look at the total and wonder.

[Carla]

Originally Posted by Porthos

The slightly scary thing is that people were still trying to pour in when the clock struck zero. What would the total have been if it were a 45 day drive or a 60 day one?

Sure a lot toward the end was being driven by the "patience" rewards, which Rich could NOT have kept up with, and it would have eventually slowed back down again. And another large part was being driven by the "remind me" function.

Heck, I fully believe that if the drive went much longer, Rich would have collapsed in exhaustion, which probably would have put a damper on things.

Still, I look at those last two days, and see the people that were trying to still get in and I can't help but wonder where it would have ended had there been more time. Maybe this drive was always destined for a feeding frenzy at the end. Maybe no amount of leadup would have stopped that.

But I still look at the total and wonder.

I totally agree...those last few hours, the totals were flying up faster than you could keep track of them. Trying to put up the limited rewards was almost futile as the numbers changed before I had a chance to enter the comment! And I supposed it didn't help when we broke Kickstarter...I know it frustrated me no end to not be there to see the seconds count down to zero!

On an entirely separate note...love your proverb!!

[eusticepious]

Originally Posted by The Giant

This. I have the shipping well in hand thanks to Ookoodook, I don't need volunteers.

Giant-

I think the advice you gave in an interview that if there is something you are really good at, do that is spot on. My hope, post-drive, is you keep on keeping on, and delegate a lot of the other stuff that your great success led to. You manage the administrative stuff quite well, but all the same, the thing you're best at is creating great content and building a community around it.

Congratulations!

Best,
E.P.

[Hushdawg]

I haven't posted on the forum since sometime in 2007 or early 2008. I moved across the world and got wrapped up in life with my new wife, new jobs (including radio broadcasting for a while) and a child. However, I've never once forgotten to check on the OOTS adventures. It is even more important to me now than ever before since I have no D&D group to play with in this country and OOTS is my D&D/Fantasy RPG release.

I was very disappointed that I could not personally contribute to the kickstarter, when one earns $400 a month it's a bit hard to justify something like that no matter how much one wants it.

That being said, had I been in the States and earning my past salary I would not have hesitated dropping $100 into the kickstart campaign and I eagerly shared this fact with anyone who would listen on FB and the indie comic scene here in the Philippines.

I hope that someone was inspired to contribute from my posts and I like to think that perhaps they did.

If you ever do a kickstarter again (I'll be back in the States within a year) I'm there and once I do get back to the States you better believe I'm adding everything to my collection that was released after my move in September of 2007.

Viva OOTS!

[fergo]

I'm so tired... must go to sleep... but Rich said there'd be a new comic up tonight...

[Happy Me]

Originally Posted by Gwynfrid

The only mystery prize which personally I found not so appealing was the pledge to deliver 1 comic per day for seven days. It sure is exciting, but is it worth it ? I have gotten used to have every single comic come to me as a welcome surprise gift in my In-box. If they come faster then that's great but on a fixed schedule ? Not such a big deal.

I was initially a touch disappointed by the prize of faster comic production but for selfish reasons. I purposely stopped reading at the end of book 4 (#672) to experience reading a new book 5 filled with unread comics. But it occurred to me that this enhanced comic production would lead to an earlier publication of book 5 so that made me happy. So Yay Mystery Prize 9! But, I too prefer Rich takes his time instead of trying to do the schedule thing at 24 or 48 or 72 hours or whatever as that short a timeframe is meaningless from my point of view.

Also, I think a longer break between each comic allows fans to have time to digest it more fully: art-wise and informational-wise.

I think that because; amusingly enough, my wait-for-book5 resolve cracked when the drive ended and I told myself I would read just one as a special treat. Ha! I went on an OOTS mini-binge (I have not actually checked where I stopped, a dozen plus I believe). That big a dose of OOTS caused informational overload; so I imagine that greater between-comic time actually helps with understanding plot development, art clues, and such. So yeah, take all the time that is needed.

I have avoided reading most of the forum (to avoid spoilers), so all the above may be old and obvious (or wrong!). It does appear that people are pretty careful about posting spoilers though, now that I have looked about the place. Yay that Rich mentioned 'spoilers ahoy' in his podcast interview; I did sing through a lot of the second half of it.

Originally Posted by Gwynfrid

At some point during the Kickstarter drive, reading some comments (a small minority of the total, to be fair) gave me a bit of a feeling that we are all a bunch of hungry bloodsucking bats, coming after Rich's lifeblood - ie. his creativity - yelling "more, more !" at the top of our collective lungs.

I agree in the sense that it was a full-on fan-frenzy! I believe that Rich recognized the frenzy and even described it in KS update #10, “Thank you for turning my little attempt to get some books back in print into the monstrous dire half-dragon thing that it has become.” At least it had a set end.

The KS drive suggested (to my odd mind) an analogy. I imagine that when when the MITD is revealed my inital expectations will be wildly wrong and it will rapidly morph into something wildly unexpected just like my exerpience with how I understood teh KS drive.

Man, do I ramble on and on and on…..

[Forbiddenwar]

Another reason to be sad about faster comics:
This is a fixed story. OOTS is a limited supply.
Faster comics mean getting to the end sooner.

Also, fear of artist breakage.
Seriously, sleep when you need to sleep. Don't worry about your audience. We are calm, rational people.

[The Derider]

Originally Posted by Forbiddenwar

Another reason to be sad about faster comics:
This is a fixed story. OOTS is a limited supply.
Faster comics mean getting to the end sooner.

Also, fear of artist breakage.
Seriously, sleep when you need to sleep. Don't worry about your audience. We are calm, rational people.

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT YOU PHILANDERING QUACK!!! ALL MUST BOW BEFORE THE WHIMS OF THE FANS! TREMBLE, OR YOUR INBOX SHALL BE STUFFED WITH INSULTS AND QUESTIONS OF YOUR MOTHER'S FIDELITY!

Spoiler

But seriously, Forbiddenwar's right.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Forbiddenwar

Another reason to be sad about faster comics:
This is a fixed story. OOTS is a limited supply.
Faster comics mean getting to the end sooner.

But, that also means that the Giant will get to his next project sooner and, as Grey Watcher noted, creativity is not a limited resource.

Originally Posted by Forbiddenwar

Don't worry about your audience. We are calm, rational people.

You appear to have accidentally dimensionally warped into an alternate reality. I suggest checking under your bed for the nearest portal and...actually on second thought, never-mind.

[dakameleon]

Originally Posted by Porthos

The slightly scary thing is that people were still trying to pour in when the clock struck zero. What would the total have been if it were a 45 day drive or a 60 day one?

I think the thing we all forgot in the excitement was that this was primarily a drive to reprint - those who missed out will shortly have the opportunity to get OotS in all its dead-tree glory.
Sure, the stickers, patches, hit point pads and the extra stories are things that look for now to be drive exclusive, but I can only imagine the extra capital here gives Rich more leverage to produce fun stuff in future. People missed out on a great deal, but they won't miss out on the products of the drive still.

Originally Posted by Forbiddenwar

Another reason to be sad about faster comics:
This is a fixed story. OOTS is a limited supply.
Faster comics mean getting to the end sooner.

See, this is one thing I don't get... all the best stories have endings. You can get spin-offs and follow-ups and sequels later, but there's nothing like putting a cap on a story arc and saying "and they lived happily ever after" or some such. I'm sure Rich will go on to do bigger & better things once we reach The End :)

[Denyala]

Originally Posted by hkhm

i had a great deal of fun reading through the kickstarter comments each day, even though i rarely posted. i was in on day one and could barely leave my computer as i watched the drive progress, it was surprisingly exciting.

i must say i am greatly looking forward to the drawing i pledged for. every single person in my life (who knows about oots) guessed my chosen character at once. i even have a spot on my wall picked out where it will go once it is framed.

I was the same way!! Do you mind me asking who you picked?

[Flame of Anor]

Originally Posted by hkhm

Originally Posted by Denyala

I was the same way!! Do you mind me asking who you picked?

I'm guessing...Thog

[Gwynfrid]

Originally Posted by Grey Watcher

I should hope that, unlike his lifeblood, Rich does not have a finite amount of creativity.

Fair enough. But even if creativity is limitless, resources such as time, sleep, and physical energy are not. Even a creator gone high on fan adoration + demand for more will need a bit of those resources to transform his creation into electronic ink he can share with said fans.

Besides, the speed of the updates since KS pledgers "won" that particular mystery prize seems to prove my point. And that is NOT a criticism. As I said above, I prefer it somewhat slower.

Originally Posted by dakameleon

See, this is one thing I don't get... all the best stories have endings. You can get spin-offs and follow-ups and sequels later, but there's nothing like putting a cap on a story arc and saying "and they lived happily ever after" or some such. I'm sure Rich will go on to do bigger & better things once we reach The End :)

I know it's a bit irrational but I'm with Forbiddenwar on this one. If it could just go on forever I'll be very happy. I'm sure that when the words "The End" appear it will be a bittersweet moment, and in the following days I will miss having an update to look forward to.

[CloakedDancer]

Originally Posted by Flame of Anor

I'm guessing...Thog

Huh. That was my guess too. Weird...

[Porthos]

Originally Posted by Carla

On an entirely separate note...love your proverb!!

Thanks. I love the series, and that quote is one of my favs.

[ti'esar]

Originally Posted by dakameleon

See, this is one thing I don't get... all the best stories have endings. You can get spin-offs and follow-ups and sequels later, but there's nothing like putting a cap on a story arc and saying "and they lived happily ever after" or some such. I'm sure Rich will go on to do bigger & better things once we reach The End :)

I definitely agree with this. The end of OOTS will be a bittersweet moment, for sure, but it won't be a sad one. I eagerly anticipate seeing the grand finale, and I'm left baffled at the people who don't seem to ever want it to come.