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Old 02-27-2012, 10:54 AM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Psyren
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Default [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Thinking On Your Feet:
The Psychic Rogue Handbook


“The eye of the master will do more work than both his hands.” - Benjamin Franklin


Reasons for this guide:

1) DSP’s psionic skillmonkey for Pathfinder is coming out soon - to better understand the roles and responsibilities of such a class, I decided to first analyze WotC’s own, fairly successful attempt.
2) Skillmonkeys are fun. Psionics is fun. Hey, you got peanut butter in my chocolate, etc.
3) There are two psionic base classes in 3.5 that have yet to be covered by handbooks... and I’d have to either be really masochistic or really drunk to touch Divine Mind.

Required Reading:

This guide assumes you’re familiar with how psionics work - if not, please see Peregrine’s post in my sig, then head to the SRD for the rules material there.

Other sources that may be handy prior to using this guide are below:

PId6’s Rogue Handbook
Saeomon’s Psion Handbook
Zugschef’s Psychic Warrior Handbook
Dictum Mortuum’s Lurk Handbook
Rules of the Game: All About Sneak Attacks
Chronos’ Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide

Rating System:

Because Saeomon’s handbook is my favorite to date (and because purple is my favorite color) I use his rating system in my own works.

Purple: Must-haves - these will take your Psyrogue above and beyond.
Blue: Very strong choices, choose among these for your build.
Green: Good choices, but have drawbacks to be considered.
Black: Situational/average: You won’t be hurting or helping yourself with these picks.
Orange: Unless you have a specific build in mind, don’t select one of these. (Or duplicate its value with a cheaper resource, like an item.)
Red: There’s nothing for you here - Skip.

In all cases, my conclusions are open to revision; There’s always a chance that I’ve overlooked a pro (or con) of some kind and thus misrated something. The insight of the community is always welcome.

Last edited by Psyren : 02-27-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:55 AM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

What is a Psychic Rogue?


The Psychic Rogue is a psionic base class introduced for 3.5 via WotC’s online Mind’s Eye articles. Like the rogue, it is a skill-based class that relies on striking from (or sneaking through) the shadows to be effective. The Psychic Rogue, however, has an additional edge - a suite of internal powers, similar to the Spellthief or Savant, from which it can draw to gain the upper hand in combat or social encounters when its skills fail. (Or to keep them from failing in the first place.)

As most players familiar with 3.5 psionics already know, WotC actually created two psionic classes with a “skillmonkey” flavor - the Psychic Rogue discussed here, and its CPsi successor the Lurk.

The Lurk has a key advantage over the Psychic Rogue, in that it’s better at manifesting (due to faster and higher power access and more base PP). It also shares many of the same psionic synergies as the Psyrogue, such as being Intelligence-based, and using powers that don’t require speech. So why then is it that so many players recommend the Psychic Rogue over the Lurk?

The simplest reason is that if you’re even considering these two classes to begin with, chances are you’re interested in being your group’s specialist (aka skill/trapmonkey) - a role at which the Psychic Rogue is unequivocally better. And while it has less overall mental might, you get more than enough psionics to be just as useful in a variety of situations. After all, if sheer manifesting was all you wanted, you could be a Wilder/Psion/Psywar instead, and dish out as much damage as the Lurk (if not more) while wielding much more raw power and group utility in other areas.

The other big reason to be a Psychic Rogue is that the class and all its abilities are freely available online; the Lurk meanwhile requires a book that tends to attract a lot of hate for its weak prestige classes and botched flavor. Even if your group isn’t totally familiar with psionics, consider allowing any player who wants to be the thief archetype to be a psychic rogue instead of the regular one, especially in otherwise SRD-only games.

The Psychic Rogue’s Tier

The Psychic Rogue is widely held to be Tier 3 ("Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate") and I support this conclusion. While they aren’t quite as versatile as a Factotum, and though they lack much of the top-end power of a Beguiler, Psychic Rogues pack a bit more mundane punch than both in the form of their native sneak attack; they also benefit from a great deal of synergy between their default role and the psionic power system. It is this synergy that elevates them above lower-tier skill-based classes like Spellthief, Lurk, Savant, Ninja, Mountebank... and even their non-psionic counterpart, the core Rogue.

This synergy comes in several flavors:

Spoiler


An analysis of the Psyrogue vs. its two closest counterparts follows below. This is only of use to people attempting to understand the tier system better (or at least, the skillmonkey’s place in it) - if you’re here to learn more about the psychic rogue itself, feel free to move on to the next section.

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-27-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:56 AM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Attributes and Race




Before we can dive into the optimal race choices for a psychic rogue, we have to discuss their ability score priority. Psychic Rogues, perhaps even moreso than regular rogues, suffer from MAD; they need:

STR for melee/thrown damage and carrying capacity
DEX for awesome (and reflex)
CON to live (HP + fort)
INT for more awesome (manifesting and skills)
WIS for will saves and Psionic Meditation
CHA for face skills and UPD

Sadly, we’re unlikely to be able to put 18s or even 16s in everything; however, a psyrogue’s mental powers can easily compensate for lower scores in other areas. For instance, you don’t need to be a perfectly stealthy sneak if you can shrink yourself, switch off the lights and/or deaden your footfalls with a thought. You also don’t need to be supremely tough if you can boost your hit points and saving throws at will, grant yourself spell resistance, or summon bruisers out of thin air to block for you. And if you can get +10 to bluff on a moment’s notice, you can live with a -1 Cha mod, etc.

Because of these differences, your stat priority is slightly different vs. regular rogues. Your psionics are based off your intelligence, so this becomes a higher priority for Psychic Rogues than it is mundane ones, possibly even your top priority. For me personally, I see Int as being even more important than Dex (your mental abilities can augment, and later replace entirely, your physical ones), but players who want a more traditional rogue feel can certainly swap the two in the spreads I’ve listed below.

Your other major choice regards your Wisdom score - You need at least a 13 for Psionic Meditation. I personally recommend it, as being able to regain your psionic focus quickly is very useful (and vital, if you plan on employing psionic or metapsionic feats) - but you can certainly get by without it, especially in a low-combat game or with a low-psionics build (see the “Builds” section.)

Stat Priority

With Psionic Meditation:
INT>DEX>WIS (13-14 only)>CON>CHA=STR

Sample starting spreads:
Elite Array: 8 STR, 14 DEX, 12 CON, 15 INT, 13 WIS, 10 CHA
28-Point-Buy: 8 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 16 INT, 14 WIS, 8 CHA
32-Point-Buy: 8 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON, 16 INT, 14 WIS, 8 CHA

Without Psionic Meditation:
INT>DEX>>CON>CHA=STR>>>WIS

Sample starting spreads:
Elite Array: 12 STR, 14 DEX, 13 CON, 15 INT, 8 WIS, 10 CHA (swap STR and CHA for more social games.)
28-Point-Buy: 8 STR, 16 DEX , 14 CON, 16 INT, 8 WIS, 10 CHA
32-Point-Buy: 8 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON, 18 INT, 8 WIS, 8 CHA

If you’re starting at first level, don’t go below 14 Int - you get no PP from your class at first level, so you need at least that much for bonus points (plus whatever you can get from your race/feats.) Without power points, you’re just a regular rogue with less skills, and nobody wants that.

Choose whether to put your stat increases into Int or Dex. Personally, I’d go with Int - the more tricks your mind can do per day, the less you need to rely on your other stats. The huge amount of additional skillpoints you’ll gain are an added bonus.

Races


As a rule, avoid races with Int or Dex penalties. If you take a race with LA (and don’t go above 1) try to buy it off ASAP. If buyoff is not allowed, downgrade all LA races by a step.

Psionic Races:

Psionic races carry the useful advantage of bonus PP, which you sorely need starting out. But don't be beholden to them, as there are excellent choices in the non-psionic section.

Spoiler


Non-Psionic Races:

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-27-2012 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:58 AM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Chassis and Class Features




The Psychic Rogue’s basic chassis is very similar to its non-psionic counterpart: d6 HD, good Reflex saves, 3/4 BAB. They share proficiencies with the core rogue. Psychic Rogues can be any alignment.

Skills:
Psyrogues share the rogue skill list, save for a few key additions which I’ve highlighted in blue. (For a detailed discussion on skills, See the “Skills & Skill Tricks” section.)

(6+ Int, x4 at 1st): Appraise, Autohypnosis, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (psionics), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Psionic Device, and Use Rope.

Curiously, they do NOT get Psicraft (ugh) but there are ways around this lack - see the Psicraft subsection below.


Getting Psicraft
I firmly believe Psychic Rogues’ lack of Psicraft was just an oversight - every other class capable of manifesting powers gets it, including Lurk, Divine Mind, and even War Mind! So your first recourse should simply be to talk to your DM. You’ll need the skill to activate any items without UPD, manifest from other psionicist’s minds, or identify ongoing psionics and spells.

In case your DM is a stickler for RAW, you can to resort to alternate methods to get it:

Spoiler


Now, you can live without Psicraft - remember that you have UPD to activate all your items with if need be - but UPD won’t give you the potentially useful ability to manifest powers from others’ heads. You’ll also be able to take 10 on Psicraft checks in combat later in your career, a benefit you’ll never have for UPD. Finally, Psicraft has other bonuses too, such as identifying active powers, or identifying powers being manifested via their displays. A handful of interesting PrCs require it as well.

Class Features:
Manifesting: Psychic Rogues are full (20/20) manifesters. However, they have the lowest max power level and base PP of any full-manifester in the game (5th-level powers and 100 PP at 20th-level respectively.) Compare this to the Lurk, which has the Psywar progression (127 PP and 6th-level powers at 20.) Though unfortunate, it does underscore the point that your powers are there to help your skills, rather than the other way around - in other words, you should play more like a magical rogue than a sneaky psion, and rely on your mental gifts only when you must.

And hey, at least you’re still ahead of the Divine Mind.

(See the “Powers” section for a detailed breakdown of their manifesting ability.)

Sneak Attack: This is the rogue’s raison d'être in combat - and yours is almost as good. Here’s the breakdown by level:
1-2: Same as rogue
3-10: -1d6 behind
11-16: -2d6 behind
17-20: -3d6 behind

This works out to a total of 7d6 SA @ 20. Compare this to the Spellthief (5d6 @ 20), Lurk (4d6 psionic @ 20), Mountebank (5d6 @ 20) or Savant (3d6 @ 20) and you’ll see that Psyrogues aren’t doing too badly at all. And unlike Sudden Strike, Skirmish, Deceptive Attack or Psionic Sneak Attack, yours is the genuine article - it has no additional restrictions/limitations on its use.

Evasion: A very useful ability for Dex-based classes as always, and you have a number of ways to boost your save and take advantage.

Danger Sense: Rather than gaining the regular Trap Sense ability, Psyrogues gain a supernatural version that relies on psionic focus to be active. Trap sense itself is an underwhelming ability (particularly in campaigns without traps), but since Psyrogues lack ACFs you’re kind of stuck with it. But there is good news: because your ability functions like the power, you get the full +4 to reflex/AC at 5th-level, instead of havin to wait until 12th-level as a standard rogue would for the same bonus. But the bad news comes back again - for one, it’s an insight bonus to both for you (rather than untyped/dodge as per the standard rogue) meaning it doesn’t stack with other insight bonuses you may have active like Defensive Precognition. And it also doesn’t scale past +4, whereas the standard rogue’s can get all the way up to +6 pre-epic. All in all, not much fun, but it’s better than nothing.

This ability later gets you uncanny dodge and imp. uncanny dodge, which are of course nice to have, albeit a bit late - you get them at 7 and 9 respectively, while the regular rogue clocks in at 4 and 8.

Special Abilities: As with rogues, these are your main reason not to PrC out of the base class. Here’s the breakdown, with ratings:

Blind Spot (Ps): Cloud Mind, 1/day, on one target, duration concentration, AND it’s subject to PR/provokes AoO on top of everything else. I’d pass, personally.

Bonus Feat: The gold standard, by which all other specials are measured. This goes double for psychic rogues, who can gain more mileage from their feats than even regular rogues do. After Skill Mastery (and possibly Mind Cripple if you want to go that route), sink your specials here. (Note that you are not restricted to psionic feats, unlike the psion and psywar.)

Decoy (Ps): Project Image (7th-level illusion spell) as a PLA - this has quite a few uses, but the 1/day and need for concentration severely cripple it compared to the spell. Still, it’s kind of neat to be a manifester with an illusion, especially one you can see out of or that can deliver messages for you. If your DM rules that transparency doesn’t apply to it (i.e. you can’t manifest powers from it) then downgrade to orange.

Enhanced Sneak Attack (Su): +1d6? Instead of a feat? And you need psionic focus for the increase to count? No thanks.

Improved Evasion (Ex): It’s a trap! Your reflex saves should be high enough to almost never fail already, and you have access to the powers you need to boost your save even more, escape, or even just tank the blasts. There are better choices. Only take if you need it for something specific, or your saves are below par (and they shouldn't be.)

Mind Cripple (Su): A deadly ability. This applies to each sneak attack, and ability damage stacks, so with a good attack routine you could render someone a vegetable in moments, even from range. It also bypasses mind blank. Note that unlike the Lurk’s Mental Assault augment, this is constantly on, rather than requiring you to spend PP to activate it. If you don’t expect to get much use out of it (e.g. low-combat campaign or ability damage-immune/mindless foes), then feel free to skip.

Shadow Jump (Ps): Even though this ability is somewhat free, you’re a manifester - there are better ways for you to get around the battlefield. In particular, you want a method that doesn’t eat your standard (or focus+move), doesn’t rely on there being shadows near where you are and where you want to be, and don’t provoke AoO either. And the max range on this is much lower than the power anyway.

Skill Mastery: Your best ability - take 10 on key skills, like Autohypnosis/Concentration, even in the middle of combat; any other skills you get are just icing on the cake. (Other good choices: the stealth and perception skills, perhaps the movement skills, and a face skill or two.) Make this special a priority as soon as you hit 11. And even if you plan on PrCing out, strongly consider staying in Psyrogue until 11 just to get this as early as you can - it’s worth foregoing most capstones.

Slippery Mind (Ex): Your powers give you better options to protect your head compared to regular rogues. Not terrible, but not really worth it either.

Last edited by Psyren : 12-28-2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:59 AM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Powers


Note: A handful of new (i.e. non-SRD) powers were created for the Psychic Rogue here. I’ve included these in the analysis below.

1st-Level

Spoiler


2nd-level

Spoiler


3rd-level

Spoiler


4th-Level:

Spoiler


5th-level:

Spoiler


Other Useful Powers


These are the ones you should look for from Expanded Knowledge, Hidden Talent, and (much later,) Psychic Chirurgery. If you’re in a Monty Haul campaign, it may be a good idea to get as many of these from Chirurgery as you can, and convert your precious Expanded Knowledge feats to other purposes.

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-27-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:00 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Prestige Classes



While Rogues have very little reason to stay in their base class, Psychic Rogues are nearly the opposite - they have very little reason to leave. There are few to no prestige classes that offer comparable sneak attack progression and ML progression to simply staying in the base class, and the bonus feats gained at 11+ are another strong incentive not to PrC out.

Having said that, there are a scant few options that offer unique and useful abilities; some with minimal sacrifice, and some with a large shift in direction that may be worth it depending on your concept. I’ll leave it to you to ultimately decide, while again providing my ratings.

Good prestige classes are those that do one or more of the following:
- Progress your manifesting at least 7/10 (So you can access 5ths/EK 4ths pre-epic.)
- Don’t shift your stat reliance away from Int/Dex
- Grant new skills for you to sink points into
- Grant access to new powers, proficiencies, or both

Here is the format this section will use:
Class Name (Source): Description.
Manifesting: How much manifesting progression you get to keep (and which levels are lost to aid dippers.)
Sneak Attack: How much sneak attack progression you keep (and total sneak attack if the remainder of levels are psyrogue levels.)
Skills: How many skill points you get per level (plus any new skills that you can learn from this class.)
Earliest Entry: The level you must be before you can enter the PrC (and the reason why.)
Sample Build(s): Sample configurations of this class with Psyrogue.

Note 1: some of these classes are psionic adaptations of magical PrCs. Some are more clearly explained as to how they should be modified than others. Ultimately, if you want to take an adapted PrC, talk with your DM and come to an agreement on what the class should be capable of. For the ones that aren’t clear, I’ve provided some suggestions to help guide the conversation, but keep in mind that your DM may have different ideas - possibly requiring psionic focus/PP expenditure to access some abilities, or even banning them entirely.

Note 2: Related to the above point - none of the magical-psionic adaptations address their skill list, thus leaving you with things like Spellcraft and, in some cases UMD, if you go strictly by the text. Discuss with your DM whether these will be left as-is (granting you access to these new skills) or if they will instead be replaced with Psicraft and UPD respectively.

Anima Psion (ToM):
Spoiler


Chameleon (RoD):
Spoiler


Cognition Thief (PGtF):
Spoiler


Daggerspell Psion (CAdv):
Spoiler


Ebon Saint (CPsi):
Spoiler


Elocater (XPH):
Spoiler


Mindbender (CArc):
Spoiler


Psibond Agent (CSco):
Spoiler


Psionic Trickster (CSco):
Spoiler


Psion Uncarnate (XPH):
Spoiler


Psychic Assassin (ME):
Spoiler


Shadowmind (CAdv):
Spoiler


Soul Manifester (ME):
Spoiler


Uncanny Trickster (CSco):
Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-27-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:02 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Skills and Skill Tricks


At heart you’re a rogue , so much of the same skill priority they have will apply to you. There are a couple of shifts in priority between psychic rogues and their mundane cousins, but you should have roughly the same amount of skill points to throw around, or possibly even a little more if you go for an Int-focused build (but be aware that you also have more key places to put the points.)

Rules of Thumb:
- Max skills that you expect to use daily, and that have high DCs (either due to being scaling opposed checks, e.g. the stealth skills, or due to having high DCs in general, e.g. Knowledge skills.)
- Put at least one point into each of your “Trained only” skills (like Sleight of Hand), whether you plan on using them or not. You want to be able to at least make the check.

A rundown on your class skills follows below:

Spoiler

For non-class skills, your main priority should be getting Psicraft (discussed in the “Chassis” section.) Beyond that, your other priorities are UMD and Knowledge Skills.

Skill Tricks

Introduced in Complete Scoundrel, Skill Tricks give you a number of useful techniques to which you can put your copious skill ranks. You’re limited to taking ½ HD worth (rounded up), and they cost 2 skill points each to learn. They are normally usable 1/encounter, or every 5 minutes outside of combat; however, two Psyrogue-friendly PrCs from CSco (The Psionic and Uncanny Tricksters, respectively) allow you to surpass these limits.

The full list is here:

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 02-27-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:03 AM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Feats


Aside from the powers themselves, the other advantage of the Psychic Rogue over its mundane cousin is its access to psionic feats - chief among them your tiny partner in crime, the psicrystal. However, these abilities are both blessing and curse - you have access to many more goodies than normal rogues do, but that just makes every feat choice that much more agonizing. From 1-20, you get 11 feats before race and flaws (assuming you don’t PrC out); not nearly enough for all the goodies out there for the taking, but it’ll have to do.

Note that some builds of Psyrogue (see the Builds section) will consider certain feats more valuable than others. A ranged psyrogue will place more value in the archery feats than the TWF feats for instance. However, some feats are highly-recommended regardless of build.

There are too many nice feats in the game to list them all here - I’ll just highlight a few standouts (and traps). I’m more than willing to update this section as I get good advice as well, but in general I recommend you go feat-diving using a combination of PId6, Saeomon, and Dictum Mortuum’s excellent handbooks.

A final note - because you get Feat Leech in-class, a useful tactic is to focus on non-psionic feats for your main build, and leech whatever psionic/metapsionic feats you need from your psicrystal. You’ll need a decent Wis to get many of them, but you can use buffs (like Animal Affinity) and items to increase this value prior to leeching. This is particularly useful for the metapsionic feats, as many of them lack prerequisites in addition to being situational.

Non-Psionic
Spoiler


Psionic/Psionics-related:

All of these are from the XPH unless otherwise indicated.

Spoiler

Last edited by Psyren : 01-20-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:04 AM   Top  -  End  -  #9
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Reserved 9 of 10
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:05 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Reserved 10 of 10, feel free to post.

(I may not need all of these, but I wanted to be safe as some of the sections got a bit long and I'm terrible at estimating post limits )
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:11 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Good to see another handbook going up! I always liked the Psychic Rogue.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
Good to see another handbook going up! I always liked the Psychic Rogue.
Thank you, so do I

I have a couple more things to add (Builds, and maybe Equipment) but I think what I've gotten up there is enough of a start. Formatting these takes forever...
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Well done sir.

Minor possible additions for consideration:
  • Maiming Strike feat: You can trade Sneak Attack damage for Charisma damage. Works exceptionally well with the Mind Cripple ability. Exemplars of Evil pg 25.
  • Dragonfire Strike feat: Converts Sneak Attack damage to energy damage, and adds 1d6 damage. The RAW is unclear here, but a nice DM will let you use this to bypass Sneak Attack immunity. Dragon Magic pg. 18.
  • Prehensile Tail feat: You can use your tail as an arm. This qualifies you for Multiweapon Fighting, which is dramatically superior to the Two Weapon Fighting chain. You can get a tail through a graft, by being a kobold, or with a soulmeld. Serpent Kingdoms pg 147.
  • Combat Acrobat feat: If you make a DC 20 Balance check to negate being knocked Prone, and/or a DC 15 check to ignore up to 4 squares of difficult terrain. Useful if your DM likes to use Trip against you or is fond of terrain. PHBII pg 76.
  • Balance Skill in general: If you have 10 or more ranks, you can make a Balance check at a -10 penalty in place of a Str or Dex check to resist being Tripped. Comp Adventurer pg 97.
  • Manyfang Dagger: Deals quadruple damage on each hit, or quintuple on a critical hit. Bonus dice of damage are never multiplied, and Power Attack can’t be applied to light weapons. But static bonuses from Craven and the ability damage from Maiming Strike or Mind Cripple would be. 32,302 gp, Serpent Kingdoms pg 152.
  • Skill Tricks: There are a bunch that a Psychic Rogue might benefit from, including a number which render your opponent Flat Footed. Comp Scoundrel.
  • If you're dabbling in soulmelds, you should also take a look at Psychic Focus. When bound to your Throat chakra, whenever you manifest a power that deals damage to a single living creature, that creature must succeed on a Fortitude save (using the soulmeld's save DC, not the power's) or be dazed for 1 round. The save DC is unfortunately Wisdom (Incarnate) or Charisma (Soulborn) based (making it a much better option for Psychic Warriors). But if you get access to a power that adds damage to your weapon, then you can force an enemy to Save on every successful attack.

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Old 02-27-2012, 05:49 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Are going to be presenting builds as well ones for variants such as E6, gestalt, and more?

Such as for E6 feats like Psionic Body and Psionic Talent become excellent since gain so many feats if get into the epic area. Such as at CR8 or such could have around 13 feats so if ten of those are psionic feats then get +20 hp from Psionic Body as one of those feats.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

What do you think about the Psychic Rogue taking rogue alternative class features, but at the levels THEY get the equivalent ability or amount of sneak attack than the actual Rogue? Should you maybe have a section that talks about that sort of thing?
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:35 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Going to overhaul the guide a bit - I think I have too many ratings categories for one thing.

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Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
What do you think about the Psychic Rogue taking rogue alternative class features, but at the levels THEY get the equivalent ability or amount of sneak attack than the actual Rogue? Should you maybe have a section that talks about that sort of thing?
I'd have no problem with it personally - the changeling rogue sub would be really nice for a social/espionage campaign for instance, and combined with their social powers you'd have one nightmare of a secret agent for the other side to deal with. But from a handbook perspective I'd like to stick as closely to RAW as possible; individual tables can discuss what tweaks they would like to make to a class beyond that. (My preferred suggestion is to give them the Lurk's augments and power progression - that would make them the best skillmonkey in the game.)

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Are going to be presenting builds as well ones for variants such as E6, gestalt, and more?

Such as for E6 feats like Psionic Body and Psionic Talent become excellent since gain so many feats if get into the epic area. Such as at CR8 or such could have around 13 feats so if ten of those are psionic feats then get +20 hp from Psionic Body as one of those feats.
I don't yet know enough about E6 to give advice for it unfortunately; I've never played it.

Gestalt advice is very specific to the classes being combined - so rather than put that in the handbook, it would be easier for someone to make a thread asking either for general psyrogue gestalt suggestions, or a critique/evaluation of a specific combination.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:00 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
Gavinfoxx
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

You need to fix the color in one of the mentions of expanded knowledge
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
gorfnab
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

There are two "psychic assassin" prestige classes. This one: Psychic Assassin and the Psionic Assassin variant in Secrets of Sarlona (page 113)

Last edited by gorfnab : 01-20-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

I've always had a soft spot for roguish characters, even if every one I've ever played has died a horrible death. Psychic Rogue looks fantastic though, and I think its added power and versatility would be just the thing to make the character not die. Ray specialist sneak attacking sounds fun.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:07 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Worth noting that PsyRogue is Tash-able. Granted, that requires either Wisdom or the Aesetic Psion feat, and that Compression makes UAS damage go down, but Flurry of Blows is useful with SA enabled for more attacks per round. Perfect for Mindcrippling the pants off of your foe in short order, especially in combo with TWF.

Also, no love for the Telekinetic Boomerang power from...Races of the Wild? Gives Bloodstorm Blade-like returning property to any thrown weapon which would probably warp spacetime with how quick it changes mass as you throw it and catch it multiple times per round if you use it while Compressed.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:22 AM   Top  -  End  -  #21
Daftendirekt
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

I saw you only rated Crossbow Sniper green. Take a look at the Hand Crossbow Focus feat in Drow of the Underdark. It's Weapon Focus and Rapid Reload in one feat for hand crossbows. I think if you go that route Crossbow Sniper might be bumped up to blue.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
classy one
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Cognition their uses the same weird wording as ardent meaning it allows you select powers based on your ML rather than your class level. This makes the skipped ML levels only lose in slow and PP rather than potency. I think it deserves a higher rank.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:18 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

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I firmly believe Psychic Rogues’ lack of Psicraft was just an oversight - every other class capable of manifesting powers gets it, including Lurk, Divine Mind, and even War Mind!
This is, of course, a filthy, dirty lie. The Psychic Warrior class does not have Psicraft as a class skill. And Psychic Rogue is slightly less of a manifesting class than Psychic Warrior, with less PP/day and powers known after 3rd level. It's also quite blatantly the Rogue to the Psychic Warrior's Fighter.

Leaving Psicraft off of the Psychic Rogue's skill list is in keeping with the directly analogous class that came before it. Furthermore, as you noted, being worse than Lurk at the psionic end of things is part of the Psychic Rogue's deal.

Now, one could certainly argue that both Psychic Rogues and Psychic Warriors should have Psicraft as a class skill. But then, one could certainly argue that there should be no such thing as class skills, and indeed that the d20 system is bad in numerous ways and should be abandoned for some alternative. So this seems like perhaps a bit of a slippery slope.
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:07 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Well now! It looks like you're right, and Psywars don't have Psicraft either and didn't in 3.0 either. Though a little more diplomacy at pointing out my foible would have been appreciated.

However, this statement...

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Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate View Post
Now, one could certainly argue that both Psychic Rogues and Psychic Warriors should have Psicraft as a class skill. But then, one could certainly argue that there should be no such thing as class skills, and indeed that the d20 system is bad in numerous ways and should be abandoned for some alternative. So this seems like perhaps a bit of a slippery slope.
... is one I don't think applies here. Psicraft is for more than just identifying powers after all - you need it to use power stones at all, and there are several powers which are not only Psychic Warrior-only, there are even a handful that are Psychic Rogue-only. There's even a table for psywar power stones in the XPH. It would be silly of WotC to have intentionally put psionic items in the game, designed for a particular class, that are difficult for that class to use.

In addition, DSP apparently agrees with me - The Pathfinder Psychic Warrior has Psicraft (well, Spellcraft due to the consolidation) as a class skill, as does their version of the Psyrogue, the Cryptic. So I'm going to let my recommendations of asking the DM to remedy the situation or getting the class skill from a dip stand.
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:08 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
Devils_Advocate
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

Oh, huh, there's no psionic equivalent to read magic, is there? That is an issue, then. Of course, one could argue that detect psionics should be modified to allow addressing power stones instead. But then, lacking Psicraft still keeps a manifester from using that power to determine the discipline involved in an aura. Classes with detect magic on their spell lists have Spellcraft as a class skill as a rule. And since Psychic Warriors and Psychic Rogues also generally have magic (psionics) on the level of Bards rather than Rangers and Paladins... yeah. Probably best to modify their skill lists... and add that capability to detect psionics (for which one must forgo some other 1st level power rather than just some crappy 0th level spell, after all).

Technically a character can also address power stones with the Use Psionic Device skill, but that's not a class skill for Psychic Warriors either, so the same point applies. Still, perhaps the fact that it is a class skill for Psychic Rogues means that lacking Psicraft maybe isn't as big of a concern for them?

Anyway, I just wasn't convinced by your previous argument (as it was factually incorrect), nor did "It would make a good house rule" seem like sufficient reason to include it in a handbook, hence my commentary on that. But based on your more recent argument I have changed my mind and concede the point.

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a little more diplomacy at pointing out my foible would have been appreciated.
In retrospect, I really should have followed that first sentence with a "". Without it, it potentially reads like a serious accusation (rather than, as intended, a silly accusation).
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Psyren
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

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In retrospect, I really should have followed that first sentence with a "". Without it, it potentially reads like a serious accusation (rather than, as intended, a silly accusation).
No harm done

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Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate View Post
Technically a character can also address power stones with the Use Psionic Device skill, but that's not a class skill for Psychic Warriors either, so the same point applies. Still, perhaps the fact that it is a class skill for Psychic Rogues means that lacking Psicraft maybe isn't as big of a concern for them?
UPD is unfortunately a very poor substitute, even for a class like PR which gets it as a class skill. To use a power stone you must first address it (even if you already know what powers are in it, and even if you're planning to activate it via UPD instead of normally) - and the DC to address a stone via UPD is 10 higher than to do it via Psicraft. Not only that, you can't take 10 if you do it via UPD either, even outside of combat. Psicraft is also based on Int (your strong stat) whereas UPD is based on Cha (a lower-priority stat) - and Psicraft is trained-only, meaning you can't even attempt the check without having a rank in, so not having it as a class skill burns up valuable skill points to let you even try. Finally, Psychic Rogues have the option of choosing Psicraft for Skill Mastery, letting them take 10 on this check even under stress. This allows you to recover a stone in combat, either from an enemy or fallen ally, that isn't keyed to you and still have a decent chance at activating it. Say the party psion has a stone of Teleport, but he gets hit with something nasty (like Feeblemind) and can't use it - even if you stealth up to him and grab it, you now need 2 (or possibly even 3!) successful UPD checks in a row to use it, and you can't take 10 on any of them. Having Psicraft as a class skill improves your chances in such a scenario greatly.

UPD also doesn't give you the other main uses of Psicraft - identifying existing powers, or manifesting from other psionicist's heads. These are less likely to matter of course (there's likely to be a primary manifester in the party that can do the former, and the latter rarely comes up) but they are worth keeping in mind. UPD is of course very useful on its own and it's worthwhile to max it, but relying on it as a replacement for Psicraft can result in sticky situations.

But as I said in the guide - even if you can't get it as a houserule, dipping for it is a-okay by RAW and Shadowmind is one of the best routes.

Last edited by Psyren : 05-05-2013 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
Chronos
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Default Re: [3.5] Thinking on your Feet: The Psychic Rogue Handbook

A caveat on Control Light: Like Darkness spells, it'll probably alert your opponents that something is going on, at which point they might do something like Glitterdust your general vicinity. Much better if they have no clue at all that someone's there.

And for prestige classes, you might want to mention [Ilithid] Slayer. You lose skill points and sneak attack, admittedly, but you also gain the Cerebral Blind ability, which makes you far more difficult to detect magically or psionically. It can be worth it, for a sneak-focused character.

For best results, use Uncanny Trickster to replace two of the Slayer levels, so your 8 skill points are replacing 4 instead of replacing 6.
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