The Eremite Base Class (3.5) PLEASE PEACH!!!! Worked hard and I think it's good!

Empedocles · 03-06-2012, 11:00 PM

Now, my previous two classes, the zealot and the ebon knight were both largely warmup for this class, which I'm spending a lot of time with and fluffing up

I hope to create a Tier 2 or 3 class that's completely playable and interesting. Needless to say, to achieve this goal I'd appreciate as much constructive criticism as possible. It should be pointed out that although the emerite is a fusion between a monk and a wizard, he's meant to be stronger then a monk. In my opinion, monks are terrible. In any case though, lets PEACH this baby!

The Eremite

Chaos is a lie. There is only the order of my mind. Weakness is a lie. There is only the destruction I am.

The eremite is not a peacekeeping, ascetic monk, nor is he a greedy rogue who battles dragons only so that he may plunder their homes. The eremite has only two goals, which ultimately define who they are: the destruction of chaos, and the destruction of weakness. By training the mind and body to unparalleled heights, the emerite strives to become a pinnacle of both battle and sorcery.

An important aspect of the eremite is that they never use weapons. Ever. Weapons make an eremite feel dependent on something else, thereby making them weaker. And weakness is unacceptable.

Adventures: An eremite adventures for several reasons. First and foremost, he seeks to test and prove himself, to prove that he is strong and too purge himself of weakness. Eremites are always yearning to learn magical lore, for they are resentful that sorcerers and wizards are stronger in the arcane arts. This often leads them to spare magic using enemies, and has proven the downfall of many strong emerites.

Characteristics: If an eremite respects a companion, that companion will likely view the emerite as a reliable peer who will fight beyond all odds. If, on the other hand, an emerite sees weakness in his peer, he will likely ignore his fellow until the adventurer can prove his worth somehow. You could say they're a little stuck up.

Alignment: Technically, eremite's can be good, but it's the snooty kind of good that everyone hates more then the lich king. The vast majority of eremites are neutral, caring for neither good nor evil but simply seeking power instead. A good number are evil as well, having strayed to close to darkness in their quest for strength. All eremites are neutral.

Religion: Eremites rarely worship gods, as gods have never proven to them their strength. Why worship a being who doesn't dwell among you?

Background: Almost all eremites learn their skills individually from a mentor. Some are aristocrats who's parents hear rumors of an eremite master, and others are orphans who are found by their future teacher. Therefore, eremites come from a variety of backgrounds.

Races: Eremites are rare as it is, but the most common race to become them are half-elves. Half-elves are often renegades in search of power, which fits the eremite doctrine perfectly. Elves, especially exiles, also are good candidates for eremites.

Game Rule Information
Eremites have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength is important for an eremite's abilities in combat, and their lack of armor means that dexterity is also important. Their spellcasting is based on wisdom, which makes it an important attribute, and a high constitution never hurts.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Hit Dice: d8.

Class Skills
Balance, Climb, Concentration, Decipher Script, Escape Artist, Jump, Knowledge (all skills taken individually), Spellcraft, Swim, and Tumble/
Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence modifier)x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2+Intelligence modifier.

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special	Flurry of Blows
1st	+1	+0	+0	+2	Flurry of Blows, Spellcasting, Unarmed Strike	-1/-1
2nd	+2	+0	+0	+3	Bonus Feat	+0/+0
3rd	+3	+1	+1	+3	Channel Spell	+1/+1
4th	+4	+1	+1	+4		+2/+2
5th	+5	+1	+1	+4	AC Bonus +1	+3/+3
6th	+6	+2	+2	+5		+4/+4
7th	+7	+2	+2	+5	Evasion	+5/+5/+0
8th	+8	+2	+2	+6	Ki Strike (magic)	+6/+6/+1
9th	+9	+3	+3	+6		+7/+7/+2
10th	+10	+3	+3	+7	AC Bonus +2	+8/+8/+3
11th	+11	+3	+3	+7	Greater Flurry	+9/+9/+9/+4
12th	+12	+4	+4	+8		+10/+10/+10/+5
13th	+13	+4	+4	+8	Improved Evasion	+11/+11/+11/+6/+1
14th	+14	+4	+4	+9	Ki Strike (lawful)	+12/+12/+12/+7/+2
15th	+15	+5	+5	+9	AC Bonus +3	+12+12+12/+7/+2
16th	+16	+5	+5	+10		+13/+13/+13/+8/+3
17th	+17	+5	+5	+10	Bonus Feat	+14/+14/+14/+9/+4
18th	+18	+6	+6	+11		+15/+15/+15/+10/+5
19th	+19	+6	+6	+11	AC Bonus +4	+16/+16/+16/+10/+5
20th	+20	+6	+6	+12	Ki Strike (adamantine)	+17/+17/+17/+12/+6/+1

Class Features

Flurry of Blows: This ability allows him to make additional melee attacks per day as a full round attack action, with the modifiers in the Flurry of Blows column instead of his Base Attack modifier. See the PHB page 41 for more details.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, the eremite gains Improved Unarmed strike as a bonus feat, and deals extra damage as per the table below.

Level	Unarmed Strike Damage
1st-3rd	1d6
4th-7th	1d8
8th-11th	1d10
12th-15th	2d6
16th-19th	2d8
20th	2d10

Spellcasting: An eremite casts spells as a bard, but they're from his own spell list. Refer to page 27 of the PHB for spells per day, and page 28 for spells known. His key ability score for spellcasting is wisdom.

Bonus Feat: Any time an eremite gains a bonus feat it can be any of the following: a feat a monk would be eligible for at any point when he gains a bonus feat or Spell Penetration or a metamagic feats. Eremites cannot learn item creation feats (unless it's through a different class).

Channel Spell: At 3rd level, an eremite learns to channel his spells through his fists. As a swift action, he can burn a spell per day and select one of his spells known to be activated with a successful attack. Any spell within his fists that is discharged has its target/area switched to whatever would allow it to only occupy the space of the attacked creature. So for example, a fireball cast through channel spell would only implode in the creature's square, and a web cast through this would only bind the creature struck. It would not have an area effect. Channel spell can be used in conjunction with flurry of blows, but only one of the attacks can have a channeled spell (since you can only take 1 swift action per turn).

AC Bonus: While unarmored, an eremite gains a bonus to AC according to the above chart. It does not apply if he is caught flat-footed.

Evasion: If an eremite makes a reflex save that would allow her to take half damage (such as a fireball) and she succeeds on her save, she instead takes no damage. At 12th level, she only takes half damage even on a failed save.

Ki Strike: This ability lets the eremite's unarmed strikes bypass damage reduction of the type specified on the chart. See page 42 of the PHB for more details.

Spell List

Spoiler

The Mentalist · 03-07-2012, 12:28 AM

Your tables all seem to be in order. A fair bit of dead levels you may want to clean up (or not) I think that it deserves the full BAB (partial casting makes it acceptable I think) Other that that I'd rank it a little below ToB classes just from a quick read through.

Spell list isn't great depending on what roles you want this thing to fill.

And Quivering Palm is an AWFUL capstone. Isn't that once a week? (Save or die... one a week... I'll play a Wizard and get it 3/day from level 11 or a Barbarian and get it from massive damage every charge)

Other issues are very attribute dependent.

Suggested Fixes:
1. Expand the spell list, a few more buffs, even if he can only cast them on himself. (maybe some utility but that may not fit the class flavor)
2. Give him better fist damage and a full BAB (2d8 is not going to cut it. Rogues are dealing handfuls of d6s Barbarians are dealing power attack charges, ToBers are throwing out their magic sword stuff dealing craploads of damage)
3. To fill in those dead levels maybe give him the two weapon fighting tree?
4. This is strictly a personal thing but let him slowfall infinitely and a lot sooner than the monk. That's a 2000gp ring, it should not be only partially replicated by a class feature.

(Oh, one thing in your table, you have a floating [center] in flurry level 16.)

sperreau · 03-07-2012, 08:57 AM

Ok, here we go:
First off, BAB. I suggest either giving it full BAB, or taking the Pathfinder approach and giving full BAB while using Flurry. Otherwise, you end missing most of your hits.

I've really never liked Slow Fall/Quivering Palm/Abundant Step etc., at least at the level they're offered. The final version of Slow Fall is -worse- than a first level spell. Quivering Palm just comes in too high level compared to when the wizard/cleric get it (cleric gets it at level 9!). So, I'd suggest offering perma Slow Fall, at a lower level. Similar comment with Quivering Palm. Offer it lower, as at 20th level, your Sorceror (Tier 2) can throw around Circle of Death easily, making your ability redundant.

As for the spells, it definitely needs more touch spells. Why not just use the Duskblade list? It fits as a semi-buff, heavy destruction based. As it stands, you can't really benefit from Channel Spell, as the class doesn't really have any touch spells worth mentionning. Also, as a no armor, d8 HD character, I wouldn't mind a few healing spells thrown in.

One of the big issues I see here, is that the class is still very MAD. As it stands, you need good Str to do any damage (and probably hit), Dex for AC, Con for health, and Wis for spells and AC as well. That's 4 of 6. I suggest offering Wis to Attack (and damage?) with unarmed attacks. It drops the Str requirement.

On the note of currently being MAD, I'd also consider upping the saves. At least one of the two (Fort or Ref). Low Fort as a melee character is rough to deal with, and low Ref seems very out of place, considering you're giving the class Improved Evasion. It seems to imply that the character isn't very good at dodging, but when they do, they're perfect at it.

A final note! I get the feeling that you're putting to much on the Monk class features. A lot of them are not as strong as they seem, considering when you get them.

I like the idea of a gish-monk though, just needs a bit more pushing in the right direction.

Empedocles · 03-07-2012, 05:04 PM

Ok, I took a lot of your advice and cut out some monk abilities, namely the quivering palm and slow fall (which the spells render obsolete...). I added in Ki strike, because this felt better for this class. Finally, the spell list is incomplete, but I wanted some feedback and recommendations for spells before I edited it further. Thanks for the feedback!

thirdkingdom · 03-07-2012, 08:35 PM

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose arcane casting? It seems as if psionics would be a much better fit for the character fluff (not relying on any outside tools . . . )

Empedocles · 03-07-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirdkingdom

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose arcane casting? It seems as if psionics would be a much better fit for the character fluff (not relying on any outside tools . . . )

That's a good point, but I did consider the option. There were a few reasons I didn't do it:
1. I don't like psionics at all.
2. I had a better idea of how to combine the wizard and the monk then I did the psion and the monk.
3. I don't like psionics at all

As for the not relying on outside tools fluff, I imagined the eremite getting his power in the same manner as a sorcerer (essentially, it's natural). For the most part, he isn't relying on outside sources.

NeoSeraphi · 03-07-2012, 10:22 PM

You should update your FoB table to your new BAB. FoB works like this:

1st-4th: BAB-2
5th-8th: BAB-1
9th-20th: BAB

I think the eremite should have Hide and Move Silently as class skills as well. As it is now, the skill list is too much wizard and not enough monk.

Also, the eremite needs 4+Int skill points per level. You have Cha-based casting, so there's no reason to expect your Int to be much higher than 14 in most builds.

Channel Spell: The wording here is a little awkward, and has a few glaring loopholes that are pretty exploitable. Rather than suggest how to fix it, I would like to point you to the Arcane Channeling class feature of the duskblade (PHB II). It is fantastically written, and a true testament to how far WotC designers have come since Complete Warrior. However, if you do that, I would suggest adding more touch spells, like shocking grasp, vampiric touch, and combust.

Also, you need to include the class's weapon and armor proficiencies.

...Whoa. Okay, the "Abilities" section is not a good place to say that the eremite's spellcasting is based on Wisdom. You should make that clear in the spellcasting section, because "as a bard" sounds like Cha-based.

Empedocles · 03-08-2012, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

You should update your FoB table to your new BAB. FoB works like this:

1st-4th: BAB-2
5th-8th: BAB-1
9th-20th: BAB

I think the eremite should have Hide and Move Silently as class skills as well. As it is now, the skill list is too much wizard and not enough monk.

Also, the eremite needs 4+Int skill points per level. You have Cha-based casting, so there's no reason to expect your Int to be much higher than 14 in most builds.

Channel Spell: The wording here is a little awkward, and has a few glaring loopholes that are pretty exploitable. Rather than suggest how to fix it, I would like to point you to the Arcane Channeling class feature of the duskblade (PHB II). It is fantastically written, and a true testament to how far WotC designers have come since Complete Warrior. However, if you do that, I would suggest adding more touch spells, like shocking grasp, vampiric touch, and combust.

Also, you need to include the class's weapon and armor proficiencies.

...Whoa. Okay, the "Abilities" section is not a good place to say that the eremite's spellcasting is based on Wisdom. You should make that clear in the spellcasting section, because "as a bard" sounds like Cha-based.

I was aware that the channeling wording was awkward, but there're a few more things I'd like to do with that ability so I let it be for now. Also, thanks for the tip on the FoB, I didn't know how that worked.

Steward · 03-08-2012, 10:37 PM

This is definitely a solid class. Most of the problems that I saw with it were technical stuff that you've already been notified to. My only concern is with the tier. Spellcasting is a great class feature -- it alone is better than most non-spellcasting classes! My concern is that this class doesn't really get enough spells that are beneficial in combat. You do have a lot of them, but there are a couple missing, like enlarge person. I also feel as if ki strike (adamantine) just isn't good enough to justify receiving at level 20.

I actually think that abilities like quivering palm and slow fall would be good if you modified them a little and granted them way earlier. You could put slow fall in the first dead level, and have it work essentially from any distance, as a supernatural ability. And quivering palm could be retooled by making it once a day instead, or modifying a bit to make it less of a death effect if you want it to be used once a day.

Would you also consider creating some innate class abilities that improve this character's physical resilience? AC bonuses are nice, but only reaching +4 by level 20 just isn't that great. Sorcerers can make that with a 1st level spell, and at higher levels Armor Class in general starts to become more academic than practical.

If you think that it's worthwhile and fits with the concept, you could make a suite of special immunities that an eremite can develop. For example, they could have an ability that grants them immunities to critical hits and sneak attacks (like a construct) or one that helps ward off mind-affecting abilities. To shore up their middling Reflex and Fortitude saves, you could give them an ability that helps with that instead.

bobthe6th · 03-21-2012, 10:13 PM

ok, major suggestion. make Ki strike come much earlier(say 2) and let the eremite improve it by spending gold or XP. the fact any self-respecting eremite wears +x gauntlets is not a good thing, as is the fact they just buy them made of addimantine. fluff them as magic tattoos or some such... but add the ability.