Naruto IV: Tobi or not Tobi, that is the question

[Xondoure]

She's also the best healer in the Manga. Well except Pain and his transcending life and death, but that was possibly the lowest point of the entire series.

[lord_khaine]

Oh come on, we have seen no signs of the ability to just "will" yourself to be super strong. Thats really stretching imo. Whats more likely? That as a medic that relies upon her chakra control to heal or destroy anyone in her path her baseline physical stats arent all that amazing? Or that she has some sort of super ability completely unknown to the rest of the world, to make her muscles permanently stronger without having to lift a single weight or showing any visible sign of increased muscle power?

Im not saying that it isnt possible as some crazy surprise twist, "HAH! Now that I have crippled your chakra control tsunade, your techniques are worthless!" /Tsunade smacks a nearby mountain and it shatters "Hmm, guess all those years of secretly using medical techniques to boost my natural strength paid off." But there are no real signs of anything like that happening that I know of.

It would be the logical result of her ability to control her own metabolism to the degree she had shown, and though its proberly not something that someone without a bagground in biology og physiology would normaly think about (thereby also excluding the author ), then i still dont find it more far out than Tsunade suddenly loosing all her powers.

In the fight with Madara he said Tsunade was slower then the Raikage but stronger then him. Thats using the final? form of her forbidden forhead medical seal. Now granted they didn't tell us much about her technique or how much stronger she was or how much slower. So thats at least one person and if you're using forbidden techniques I am sure Gai opening some gates is as strong if not stronger and probable a lot faster then her. I am not trying to hate on Tsunade it's just that she like a lot of the other female characters are not painted in the best light skill wise in this manga

What?

Thats just 1 more person who is weaker than Tsunade, you are directly quoting Madara saying so.
You do know that Tsunades medical seal is just a healing tecknique?
Regarding Gai, then i dont think he would be stronger even if he opened all his gates.

As for fighting only being about how fast and strong you are I would put my money on an MMA fighter over a bodybuilder. Strength and speed can beat skill but it depeneds on the gaps between the two fighters atributes.

Try and take another closer look at what i wrote, i said fighting was about Hitting your opponent as hard and as fast as you can, in the right spot.

[Nekura]

Originally Posted by lord_khaine

What?

Thats just 1 more person who is weaker than Tsunade, you are directly quoting Madara saying so.
You do know that Tsunades medical seal is just a healing tecknique?
Regarding Gai, then i dont think he would be stronger even if he opened all his gates.



Try and take another closer look at what i wrote, i said fighting was about Hitting your opponent as hard and as fast as you can, in the right spot.

Yes Raikage is said to be weaker and faster but it was comparing them in a way that doesn't indicate a huge gap between them like you saying only biju are on par with Tsunade and we will just have to disagree about Gai. And I had said someone with simular strength and speed but with better fighting skills aka taijutsu.

Ok you said "in the right spot" and Tsunade more than likely nows about the right spots due to her medical knowledge. But that doesn't change the fact she is never shown attacking in any right spots she more or less goes hulk smash in her fights. And yes she once used a med technique on Kabuto to confuse the signals his brain sent to which limbs but he was a good enough medic to surprise her on how easy it was to bypass that. That however wasn't about her touching the right spot it wasn't some pressure point or anything and would have been smarter in that case to just use her strength anyway. Or even better to use the chakra scalpels Kabuto was using, temporarily having someone move their right foot instead of their left arm is lame.

And memorising the body and how to heal it doesn't mean she trained and learned a taijutsu style to take advantage of it. It would be the smart thing to do but given how she has been shown to fight it would seem she spent all her time learning how to heal, sealing to make her triangle one, and of course drinking and losing all of her money gambling while feeling sorry for herself. So in her fights there is a distinct lack of hiting or in the right spots And untill her fight with Madara there wasn't even much speed so she really only had the strength and her medical knowledge going for her. And like I said before others like Orochimaru, Kabuto, and slower but also impresive Naruto had abilities to heal themselves. Even any idiot Oro gave his cursed seal to healed when it activated.

[darksolitaire]

New Chapter.

Spoiler

Kabuto has flashback? Yup, he's pretty much goner. Nothing can save him now.

[Fjolnir]

I am still convinced that the final fight will look something like this, though possibly with an even larger explosion and definitely more crazy eyes...

[Kato]

Originally Posted by darksolitaire

New Chapter.

Spoiler

Kabuto has flashback? Yup, he's pretty much goner. Nothing can save him now.

Aw, don't put him off so easily... then again, he is up against THE two Uchihas...

I wonder what made him what he is though, seems nice enough as a kiddo...
And I don't want dragon sage to just die...

[DiscipleofBob]

Flashbacks are the number one cause of death in named characters in Shounen.

Friends don't let friends have flashbacks.

[Giegue]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Now we have two "no ones"..? Do you think this is just a coincidence or could there be something deeper here? Feel free to discuss your thoughts on this.

Also, dragon sage CAN'T die. If he does then the Edos will be around...forever...and the real Madara will just troll everybody with his massive HAXX. Kabuto can't die in this fight, he has to be defeated without being killed or Itachi's goal of ending Edo Tensei will be compromised.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Yeah my one thought was "oh noes now he's gonna loose" this chapter.

Yeah but he can release Edo Tensei and then Sasuke will kill him for taking Itachi away from him.

[Fjolnir]

With Kabuto, he literally never had anything, so to glom onto whatever aspects of his peers that they encourage was his only true method of moving forward with his life. Tobi is, on the other hand, divorcing himself from his own past and facing the present with a view that he is no longer important as himself, but rather his actions will speak for him.

[Giegue]

Yeah, but by that point the fight will be over. Once Edo is ended, Kabuto is defeated. Edo is the ONLY thing keeping him alive right now and the only thing making him relevant in this war. Once Edo is down, the fight is over. If he dies after that's just because leaving him alive would be too dangerous and it is something that is just oh too predictable for the Sauce's character.

Also, I find it interesting. Kabuto has a technique to give the lifeless life, and it is seemingly a sage technique. Kabuto also said he was closer to the sage then even Tobi, who as we know has Senju + Uchiha DNA. While that may just be Kabuto's delusion talking, do any of you think that, perhaps, the Sage of the Six Paths was also, in addition to the 10-tails Jin a practitioner of Senjutsu, hence his "sage" title? It would be YET ANOTHER parallel between Rikudou and Naruto, to say the least...

[Socratov]

no, he at least gets 1 more chapter to explain himslef before Itachi declares himself god for 10 secs. and redoes the universe not including edo tensei and kabuto. I kind of like this pacing before the the naruto clusterbomb and the Uchiha 'tactical' nuke.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

A little bit of Kabuto's backstory is nice, though it's fairly unremarkable for a war-torn world like Naruto's.

If I had to guess, maybe Izanami can somehow force Kabuto to cancel the Edo Tensei. He did tell Tobi it was possible to do so, though bear in mind he is a professional liar.

Funny thought: maybe Kabuto would be a nicer guy if they gave him a different name and no glasses?

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by Giegue

Yeah, but by that point the fight will be over. Once Edo is ended, Kabuto is defeated. Edo is the ONLY thing keeping him alive right now and the only thing making him relevant in this war. Once Edo is down, the fight is over. If he dies after that's just because leaving him alive would be too dangerous and it is something that is just oh too predictable for the Sauce's character.

Only thing making him alive/relevant? He's fought two Mangekyo users to a standstill, that's got to be something.

Also, I find it interesting. Kabuto has a technique to give the lifeless life, and it is seemingly a sage technique. Kabuto also said he was closer to the sage then even Tobi, who as we know has Senju + Uchiha DNA. While that may just be Kabuto's delusion talking, do any of you think that, perhaps, the Sage of the Six Paths was also, in addition to the 10-tails Jin a practitioner of Senjutsu, hence his "sage" title? It would be YET ANOTHER parallel between Rikudou and Naruto, to say the least...

I had always assumed that, mostly because the only other people given the Sage title used Senjutsu. Also, I feel sorry for Naruto. He's a freaking toad sage, while Kabuto gets to be a DRAGON SAGE.
Edit: Also, I've gotta say I liked this chapter. I do hope they keep the flashback concentration low, but a few every now and then are good.

[Kato]

Originally Posted by Giegue

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Now we have two "no ones"..? Do you think this is just a coincidence or could there be something deeper here? Feel free to discuss your thoughts on this.

Nah... I don't think it's significant... Tobi just doesn't care but Kabuto is determined to get himself a name. Rather polar opposites if anything. Maybe in the meta sense but no plot relevance, I think.

Originally Posted by Giegue

Also, I find it interesting. Kabuto has a technique to give the lifeless life, and it is seemingly a sage technique. Kabuto also said he was closer to the sage then even Tobi, who as we know has Senju + Uchiha DNA. While that may just be Kabuto's delusion talking, do any of you think that, perhaps, the Sage of the Six Paths was also, in addition to the 10-tails Jin a practitioner of Senjutsu, hence his "sage" title? It would be YET ANOTHER parallel between Rikudou and Naruto, to say the least...

Hm... I'd guess it is possible, or as Drolyt says, he was merely able to use nature chakra/sage techniques but no sage of any particular kind.

Originally Posted by Drolyt

Also, I feel sorry for Naruto. He's a freaking toad sage, while Kabuto gets to be a DRAGON SAGE.

Good point. Being a frog really is pretty dumb for the main character. Or funny.... and dumb.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Originally Posted by Drolyt

Only thing making him alive/relevant? He's fought two Mangekyo users to a standstill, that's got to be something.

I had always assumed that, mostly because the only other people given the Sage title used Senjutsu. Also, I feel sorry for Naruto. He's a freaking toad sage, while Kabuto gets to be a DRAGON SAGE.
Edit: Also, I've gotta say I liked this chapter. I do hope they keep the flashback concentration low, but a few every now and then are good.

I'll call him a dragon when he shows signs of not being a snake, until then its so much hot air.

Besides Naruto's Sage Mode is so last season Kyuubimode naow! is still the coolest thing in his aresenal. So what if its toad themed.

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

I'll call him a dragon when he shows signs of not being a snake, until then its so much hot air.

Besides Naruto's Sage Mode is so last season Kyuubimode naow! is still the coolest thing in his aresenal. So what if its toad themed.

It is still pretty cool, yes, but I've always felt the whole toad thing was weird. Kishi just likes toads I guess.
On a related note, Kabuto's Senjutsu doesn't seem to have any of the weaknesses of Naruto's, namely he can use it freely while moving. I'm not sure if that is because he is "closer to the Sage of the Six Paths" as he claims or because Dragon Senjutsu works differently.

[Kato]

Originally Posted by Drolyt

On a related note, Kabuto's Senjutsu doesn't seem to have any of the weaknesses of Naruto's, namely he can use it freely while moving. I'm not sure if that is because he is "closer to the Sage of the Six Paths" as he claims or because Dragon Senjutsu works differently.

Or because he has that weird, nameless snake coming out of his stomach that would do what the toads did for Jiraya...

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'd also point out that with all the talking going on there's been plenty of time for him to hold still to go into Sage Mode. Calm collected behavior is very unlike Naruto, but very much like Kabuto. I don't think he lacks the basic weakness but he better at doing it because he's not a hyper-active idiot.

[Prime32]

Originally Posted by Drolyt

It is still pretty cool, yes, but I've always felt the whole toad thing was weird. Kishi just likes toads I guess.

It all goes back to the original Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya.

[Madara]

New Chapter=spoilers

Spoiler

Little Kabuto is cute I'm glad we're getting more development on him now. But now that we have his backstory, he's not gonna be the final boss.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I'm not disagreeing, but why? Because "Madara" still hasn't?

[Socratov]

Well, actually we have a lot of backstory on Madara, how he and Shisui developed their skills, how he waged war with teh Senju clan, how he eventually made peace and with Harishama Senju founded the hidden village of Konoha. the only one we don't know yet is this alledged Tobi...

[Madara]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

I'm not disagreeing, but why? Because "Madara" still hasn't?

Because we usually hear their tragic back-story right before they die. I give him 2 chapters to either die fighting or change teams.

[Gilphon]

Might you, if he went down now, it would bring a very anticlimactic end to the kages' fight.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by Socratov

Well, actually we have a lot of backstory on Madara, how he and Shisui developed their skills, how he waged war with teh Senju clan, how he eventually made peace and with Harishama Senju founded the hidden village of Konoha. the only one we don't know yet is this alledged Tobi...

If I actually meant Madara I would have called him Madara. Quotes meant Tobi. Sorry that wasn't clearly.

Originally Posted by Madara

Because we usually hear their tragic back-story right before they die. I give him 2 chapters to either die fighting or change teams.

Hmmmm. And he's taken off his Akatsuki jacket as well. I guess you're right.

[Madara]

Originally Posted by Gilphon

Might you, if he went down now, it would bring a very anticlimactic end to the kages' fight.

Simultaneous defeat? I really wouldn't like it if the kage won against Madara. I mean...they're great, but it would cause Madara to lose the "I'm a badass Uchiha, and I'm gonna beat you with my mad Hax skills. Senju cells Hax, Sharingan Hax, sexist Hax, and even Rinnegan Hax!"

Also,

Spoiler

Kabuto claimed to be the closest to the "Hermit"(That's what my scalator had) of the Six Paths right now. I find that odd. I thought that Tobi or Madara would be closer. Is he discrediting Madara because he's dead?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Originally Posted by Madara

Simultaneous defeat? I really wouldn't like it if the kage won against Madara. I mean...they're great, but it would cause Madara to lose the "I'm a badass Uchiha, and I'm gonna beat you with my mad Hax skills. Senju cells Hax, Sharingan Hax, sexist Hax, and even Rinnegan Hax!"

Yeah exactly why I think he should loose along with every member of the clan. The Uchiha are dirty clan of Canon Sues with **** attitudes that have stained an otherwise decent story.

Only decent representative of them was ruined when Kishi started drinking his own cool-aid.

[Kato]

Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

Yeah exactly why I think he should loose along with every member of the clan. The Uchiha are dirty clan of Canon Sues with **** attitudes that have stained an otherwise decent story.

Only decent representative of them was ruined when Kishi started drinking his own cool-aid.

Aw, come on. Even though I will admit most bad plot choices in the story were Uchiha related I'd not say all of them were rotten from the core.

I thought about Kabuto changing sides but from what we know I dismissed the idea soon.

[Drolyt]

Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee

Yeah exactly why I think he should loose along with every member of the clan. The Uchiha are dirty clan of Canon Sues with **** attitudes that have stained an otherwise decent story.

Only decent representative of them was ruined when Kishi started drinking his own cool-aid.

While I understand that your opinion is somewhat common, especially outside of Japan for some reason, I have to respectfully disagree; I think the Uchiha and Sasuke in particular are an asset to the story. Regardless, I don't think fan dislike/like of a character should be a factor in determining the outcome of a story.