Question. Does that account for the AP on a Firebomb grenade being 6? Armour shouldn't do much.
Also, the rule for catching on fire from a firebomb is slightly different, and apparently just requires that it hit you. Check the Firebomb entry as opposed to the Flame weapon entry, which is a quality that Firebombs don't actually have.
Firebombs have AP 6? Is that errata? Looks like I need to edit my ballistics profile.
Also: in the interest of not making my poor, tiny brain hurt, Rhodes never shot Red due to his flammable genetics, and Red never needed to FP a dodge, so I still have two to draw on, right?
Looks like it's in the core rules. I intuitively assumed they were AP 0 too, but I guess it makes sense... most body armour does not stop you getting set on fire.
Rhodes never shot Red, correct. I don't know if you'll still want to shoot him, but if you still do in exactly the same way (i.e. firing from where you stand, at semi-auto) then we'll keep those rolls in your previous post. If you end up taking a different action I'll ask for new rolls, as otherwise you might be acting with foreknowledge of whether you'd succeed or fail.
As I said earlier, wait 'til Red's actual turn comes around before making any decision on that. There is going to be a lot of NPC runaround that may influence your choice.
Looks like it's in the core rules. I intuitively assumed they were AP 0 too, but I guess it makes sense... most body armour does not stop you getting set on fire.
Rhodes never shot Red, correct. I don't know if you'll still want to shoot him, but if you still do in exactly the same way (i.e. firing from where you stand, at semi-auto) then we'll keep those rolls in your previous post. If you end up taking a different action I'll ask for new rolls, as otherwise you might be acting with foreknowledge of whether you'd succeed or fail.
As I said earlier, wait 'til Red's actual turn comes around before making any decision on that. There is going to be a lot of NPC runaround that may influence your choice.
You are, as always, eminently fair.
Now... I wait.
I did, and I disagree (for future reference). The Firebomb entry says "a target struck by a fire bomb must take an Ag test or catch on fire (see [..] p210)". Page 210 refers you to p128, which is the Flame weapon property.
There's room for interpretation, but I saw no reason to think that a firebomb would set you on fire any easier than a flamethrower, so I went with that. Academic as it turns out, though, at least in this instance.
Page 210 also contains the rules for what happens when you are on fire, which I assumed is what the Firebomb entry was pointing at. The only reasons I can think of that a grenade would set you on fire more easily than a flamethrower is if the flamethrower were a gas-jet version (40k ones aren't, Promethium is liquid,) or because the flammable liquid being spewed about is centered on your location and has a higher chance of getting on you specifically. Against most human enemies, it isn't going to matter overly much which way it goes.
And yeah, I think the AP6 is to represent burning liquid leaking between cracks in your armour, getting through weak flexible spots, and generally being extremely difficult to stop.
Looks like it's in the core rules. I intuitively assumed they were AP 0 too, but I guess it makes sense... most body armour does not stop you getting set on fire.
Some interesting food for thought in those discussions. I’d never really noticed it before, but there are some good arguments for a houseruled firebomb fix.
Annnnnyway...
BEHOLD
THE WALL OF DICE
Vyres’ crew members are going to retreat into the corner. They’re safe there.
The Heavy isn’t done shooting at Grum. Full auto!
(1d100)[30] (BS 28, +20 for full auto, +10 for short range, +10 for Hulking [forgot that last time]) - 4 hits Dodge - (1d100)[75] (untrained) - failed Damage - (1d10+5)[8], (1d10+5)[13], (1d10+5)[13], (1d10+5)[10] - 12 wounds after soak
Thrax
Thrax draws his chainsword (half action) and takes a half move back towards the wall, guarding Lazerus and Rabilas in their retreat.
Simeon also runs for the door. Again, Tychon/Jericus/Nova can decide whether or not to let him through as a free ‘action’ – if you do, he’ll flip to just behind you on the map.
The Gangers – let’s start with the ones in the roof.
The one that Tychon was shooting at has one hell of a full auto target in the doorway now. He fires on Tychon at full auto. Tychon and Nova have cover worth 7 AP from the doors, on all locations bar their heads and right(Tychon)/left(Nova) arms.
(1d100)[64] (+30) - total miss-cakes Dodge - (1d100)[75] Damage - (1d10+3)[8]
Any additional hits he’ll spread evenly among Simeon, Nova and Tychon (in that order). I’ll roll them when I see what this has come up with.
The rightmost ceiling ganger opens up on full auto on the handler he injured before: (1d100)[10] (+30) - hits five times Dodge - (1d100)[54] - failed Damage - (1d10+3)[5], (1d10+3)[12], (1d10+3)[4], (1d10+3)[6] - kills without needing the fifth damage roll.
The leftmost ceiling ganger fires on full auto at Grum and his group. (1d100)[61] (+40) - hits once Dodge - (1d100)[12] (untrained) – if Grum hasn’t already used it. (1d10+3)[12] - 4 wounds Again, further rolls for spreading these hits when I see how many there need to be.
On to the gangers on the ground. The one on Millie’s right uses Suppressive Fire on the two Beast House handlers right near him.
Pinning checks for the handlers: (1d100)[42], (1d100)[63] - both failed
BS test for Suppressive Fire: (1d100)[93] (-10) - no hits Damage - (1d10+3)[8], (1d10+3)[12]
The two on Millie’s left both fire on full auto at Grum. (1d100)[84] (+40) - missed (1d10+3)[13], (1d10+3)[13], (1d10+3)[9], (1d10+3)[13] (1d100)[49] (+40) - hits twice (1d10+3)[11], (1d10+3)[10], (1d10+3)[12], (1d10+3)[13] - does 5 wounds. Grum's still not in criticals.
Rabilas runs for the door. Again, your choice about whether to let him through – you guys are building up quite the queue.
Vyres seeks cover behind the stage.
The Constantine Representative gets up and starts walking calmly towards the main door.
Grum... smash.
Grum cares not for chairs, and charges the ganger furthest on Millie’s left. Phipps and Norton test Ag not to be knocked down as he passes: Phipps - (1d100)[42] - failed Norton - (1d100)[36] - failed
Attack - (1d100)[43] - hit (body) Dodge - (1d100)[38] - nope Damage - (1d5+9)[12] - 8 wounds Shocking - (1d100)[86] - he's at +40 for his flak vest, but he still fails. Stunned for 4 rounds.
Of the Beast House Handlers, only Kyrie and the guy on the stage are not presently pinned.
Kyrie draws her hunting rifle, and takes a half action aim at the ceiling ganger above her.
The guy on the stage takes a half move forwards (dropping off the front of the stage), and readies a machete and a stub automatic (half action).
The others, being Pinned, seek cover.
Finally, some newcomers arrive on the scene. You'll see who and where they are when you see the IC; for now, here's their initiative roll, which plugs into this coming round.
Back to you guys. Here is the complete initiative order:
Tychon
Red
The Masked Men
Rhodes
Millie
Phipps
The Auctioneer
Eustacia
Jericus
Nova
Tauron
Vyres' crew members
Heavy
Thrax
Simeon
Gangers
Rabilas
Vyres
The Constantine Representative
Grum
Norton
Beast House Handlers
And here's the map:
Spoiler
I know it's probably bad for me to take sides, but I find myself cheering for Grum.
EDIT: Also, just for clarification: the ganger who fired on the doorway means that Nova (but not Jericus, who is not up against the doors) is "still under fire" for the purposes of breaking Pinning.
DOUBLE EDIT: Actually, that's a tempting first interpretation, but I feel a bit stingy considering that he couldn't even hit the door, let alone get enough degrees of success to move from Tychon to Nova. Let's say she's not under fire.
Crap, missed LCP's 2nd edit until I was on my way to bed. I won't be able to change my actions until after work tomorrow evening. Any chance we can hold off resolving this turn until then?
__________________ Currently Playing:
Nova Odessa, Mind-Cleansed Assassin in 'Thy Fearful Symmetry' (OOC|IC) (Dark Heresy)
Narshak 'Edsploda, Deffskullz Tankbusta, and his runtz Francis the ammo grot and Teeg the lootin' squig in 'For Gork, Mork, and Lootin'!" (OOC|IC) (Rogue Trader, slightly modified)
Nova avatar courtesy of the ever awesome LCP (who also happens to be GMing the campaign that she comes from).
Crap, missed LCP's 2nd edit until I was on my way to bed. I won't be able to change my actions until after work tomorrow evening. Any chance we can hold off resolving this turn until then?
All it changes is giving you a +30 to the breaking pinning check, which is at the end of your turn - there's no need to edit, it just means that you have successfully broken it for next turn.
Yeah, I almost feel like Red doesn't deserve to be allowed to burn fate when they blow his head off . You had a chance to duck for solid cover and chose to stand still in plain view.
Were it me, I would have retreated to the aforementioned cover and taken a potshot at Rhodes. Ah well, too late now. Let the dice fall as they may.
On the subject of Firebombs:
I was thinking about it at work, and AP6 probably is a bit much. On the other hand, I don't think AP0 makes sense for them either. Because, you know, fire. Hand Flamer has AP2, Flamer has AP3. Might be best to just downgrade the AP to one of those numbers, if it comes to houseruling it.
On the subject of shooty things at hand:
The gangers are suspended from the ceiling, right? ~8m up, or so? What's holding them there, and how possible would it be to shoot through it?
I'm still waiting on Jericus and Tauron. If Than wants to change his actions, I'll be OK with it until they post: he's getting no new information from me, and is isolated from the rest of your decisions, after all.
On the subject of firebombs: I think AP0 is completely appropriate for something that costs 5 thrones, and is described as basically being a Molotov cocktail (and so probably using any kind of flammable fuel rather than the weapons-grade promethium in flamers). If the target catches fire, the burning damage will ignore their armour. I also think that the guys in the FFG threads have got the right idea in saying that fire bombs should not be launchable from grenade launchers.
The gangers hanging from the vents are being held up by purpose-made harnesses. If you imagine a rock-climbing harness, something like that.
Called shot, but a tricky one I'd say - a rope is a much narrower target than a human head. So call it Difficult (-10) on top of the usual Called Shot penalty.
Huzzah. Tychon has deadeye shot, which reduces the penalty for called shots, so it would work out to -20 for him, -30 for anyone else. I can live with that, I think. It's an option to consider.
On the subject of firebombs: I think AP0 is completely appropriate for something that costs 5 thrones, and is described as basically being a Molotov cocktail (and so probably using any kind of flammable fuel rather than the weapons-grade promethium in flamers). If the target catches fire, the burning damage will ignore their armour. I also think that the guys in the FFG threads have got the right idea in saying that fire bombs should not be launchable from grenade launchers.
We've been treating them like most other grenades up until this point - puling pins, and not lighting fuses, for instance, which is why I didn't think twice about appending "Launcher-style" to them.
Oops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul
I respectfully disagree, but I'm not the one making the decisions. Looks like Red will have to invest in Thermal Grenades.
Ugh, every single part of that statline is statistically worse than the Firebomb's. Except for Range and Damage, which are the exact same.
There is no reason anybody ever would want to go for Thermals over molotov cocktails.
Ugh, every single part of that statline is statistically worse than the Firebomb's. Except for Range and Damage, which are the exact same.
There is no reason anybody ever would want to go for Thermals over molotov cocktails.
Tauron's running, in case that's not clear - looks like a full move wouldn't bring him to the door, and hopefully nobody will take a swing at him as he goes past. Just as far as the Margravine, as long as he can get past Norton and Simeon.
This is probably my last post until next week, as I alluded to earlier, so if you could autopilot Tauron for the intervening rounds, I'd appreciate it, LCP. He'll shoot from cover if possible, half-aiming and taking potshots even though it's unlikely to amount to much. Full auto if people start closing in, and, hell, taking the chainsword from Red and going All-Out with that if it comes down to close combat. Sensible suggestions from Tychon or others will supersede this, though. I leave it in your capable hands!
Gonna try to do as many rolls as possible in one post. Don’t like flooding the thread with quintuple posts, I look back and all I see is my own username.
Rhodes’ Dodge: (1d100)[16] - manages to dodge the first shot! No way he escapes the second or third, though. Ends up taking a +1 crit to the bod: he can only take a Half Action next turn.
The Men In Black
The foremost squad members readies a Photon Flash grenade (half action) and throws it as far as he can (9m straight forward)
BS 40, no modifiers: (1d100)[75] - failed, scatter ahoy.
Potential scatter: (1d10)[3], (1d5)[2] - bounces into the wall. No movement.
Red takes a Toughness test not to be blinded by the flash. (1d100)[42] - failed.
Octavian has no such bonus: (1d100)[100] - super-failed.
The kill-teams’ masks have got some fancy gubbins built in and they do not need to test at all.
The second squad member takes a Half Move forwards and fires single shot at Red.
The third squad member has a clear line from where he stands, and fires on semi-auto.
BS40, +10 short range (just), +10 semi-auto: (1d100)[80]
Damage: (1d10+4)[8], (1d10+4)[11], (1d10+4)[7]
The fourth and fifth squad members repeat their chum’s move-and-fire manoeuvre.
BS 40, +10 short range, +10 RDS: (1d100)[78]
Damage: (1d10+4)[9]
BS 40, +10 short range, +10 RDS: (1d100)[99]
Damage: (1d10+4)[9]
Red’s Dodge, to be used against the first hit: (1d100)[37]
All the hellguns miss! Some kill-team.
If he’s still capable, Rhodes tests WP to act: (1d100)[27] - passes If he passes, he attempts to beat out the flames in his clothes: (1d100)[46]
He can only take a half action, so he can't do this. And he's blind, so he can't shoot Red either. He settles for taking a half move backwards, and since he's blind, his half move is itself halved.
Millie backs off a little (half move), and self-administers a dose of something fun. Its effects will last for (1d5)[4] hours. Using Quick Draw, she puts away the Tranter and readies her Chain Knife, and a regular knife in the other hand.
Phipps is not getting paid to fight gangers, and takes a half move backwards following Eustacia. He takes another single shot at Ceiling Ganger.
Effective BS50: (1d100)[57] - missed (1d10+3)[9]
The Auctioneer is in a bad way, and ducks under the stage. He has to bend double to do so, so can only scuttle using half moves, but emerges on the other side to find cover and fires up his own comms. (NB: I have just realised that as an NPC, Millie should not have been able to score Righteous Fury. I'll set his wound total back to what it should be and remove the fatigue from the crit.)
Eustacia isn’t going anywhere.
[PCS COME HERE]
Vyres’ crew stay down.
The Heavy thinks that the lone Beast House handler who is running forwards looks like a fun target, and fires on full auto at him.
Effective BS 58 (short range, full auto): (1d100)[95] - what a miss. Dodge: (1d100)[74]
Damage rolls: (1d10+5)[15], (1d10+5)[12], (1d10+5)[15], (1d10+5)[15], (1d10+5)[6]
Thrax takes a half move towards the main door, following Norton (you’ll see what he does)
Simeon doesn’t care what some fancy-pants Mr Kastor says and pushes right past you, turning the corner and running in the opposite direction from Red and his new friends.
The Gangers now each have only 10 rounds left in their autogun clips. They don’t care!
Presuming Phipps didn’t kill him, Ceiling Ganger at the back tries to kill Phipps right back. He fires full auto.
(1d100)[39] (effective BS 58) - hits twice
Phipps’ Dodge: (1d100)[89] (1d10+3)[5], (1d10+3)[7], (1d10+3)[6], (1d10+3)[4], (1d10+3)[8]
Phipps has got a fancy bodyglove, so after soak that comes to a grand total of one wound.
The ganger's clip is now empty.
The dangling ganger at front left fires at the wounded handler behind the cover of the glasswolf cages, on semi-auto. The cages offer 5 AP of cover to the handler’s legs. (1d100)[27] (effective BS 48) - hits twice
Dodge: (1d100)[1] - dodges twice! (1d10+3)[4], (1d10+3)[8], (1d10+3)[13]
The ganger has 7 rounds left in his clip.
The dangling ganger at front right fires at the Beast House handler sheltering behind the Ambull cage, again on semi-auto. From his angle, the cage offers no cover. (1d100)[31] (effective BS 48) - hits once
Dodge: (1d100)[97] - failed (1d10+3)[5], (1d10+3)[10],(1d10+3)[5] - 1 wound.
He has 7 rounds left in his clip.
On the ground, Grum’s ganger is stunned. The two gangers adjacent to Millie are a little concerned about the Ogryn bearing down on them.
The first of them takes a half move back, so that his back is to the wall, and takes a single shot at Grum. (1d100)[16] (effective BS 48, firing into melee for -20 = 28, with up to 48 hitting the stunned ganger) - hits (1d10+3)[6] - soaked.
The second, who was not quite as close to begin with, stands his ground and fires on full auto. (1d100)[41] (effective BS 58, firing into melee for -20 = 38, with up to 58 hitting the stunned ganger) - one hit to the stunned guy, one hit to Grum (we ought to split them evenly) (1d10+3)[7] - stunned guy takes 4 wounds, which is a +2 crit to the right arm. 1 level of fatigue.
Forgot additional damage rolls so the roll against Grum is in the post below.
Grum’s ‘dodge’: (1d100)[25] - failed
Rabilas stays put, not liking the sound of guns.
Vyres takes a half move behind the cover of the generator, and readies his laspistol.
The Constantine Representative keeps walking.
Assuming he is still alive, Grum wades forwards past his stunned victim. He wants to get to the guys who are shooting him, but Millie is in the way. Half move, Standard Attack.
(1d100)[18] vs. WS 33 - hit!
Millie’s Dodge: (1d100)[95] - failed! (1d5+9)[11] - 8 wounds to the right leg
Shocking: (1d100)[60] - failed! Stunned for 4 turns.
Norton readies a hand cannon and takes a half move ‘north’. Is he heading for the main door, or is he following the Constantine Representative?
Finally, the Beast House Handlers get their turns.
Firstly, I shoulda rolled at the end of their last turn to see who broke out of pinning. Going clockwise around the room: (1d100)[56] - still pinned (1d100)[28] - still pinned (1d100)[78] - free! (1d100)[82] - still pinned
If he is still alive, the wounded guy behind the glasswolf cages will ready his stub pistol and fire at the dangling ganger above. -20 to the shot if he’s Pinned. (1d100)[94] (+10 short range, -20 Pinned) - miss (1d10+3)[4]
His chum on the other side of the glasswolf cages adds his shotgun to that effort. Half action Aim, fire. (1d100)[60] (+10 short range, +10 Aim, -20 Pinned) - miss (1d10+4)[14]
On the other side of the auction room, the guy with his back to the wall leans around the corner and tries to shotgun the ganger who fired full auto at Grum in the back. Aim, fire. (1d100)[29] (+10 short range, +10 Aim, -20 Pinned?) - hit (1d10+4)[14] - that's gotta hurt. +1 crit to the body. However, I have forgotten the ganger's dodge. Let's roll that below.
His friend behind the Ambull cage readies his stub pistol and returns fire on the ceiling ganger above him. (1d100)[6] (+10 short range, -20 Pinned) - hit (body) (1d10+3)[6] - soaked
That’s the last of the ones who might still be Pinned; on to the other two.
Kyrie takes a second Half Action to aim (bringing it up to a full aim) and shoots the ceiling ganger above her. (1d100)[60] (+10 short range, +20 full aim, +10 Accurate) - hit with one degree of success to spare. (1d10+3)[11]
Additional damage rolls: (1d10)[1], (1d10)[2]
9 wounds to the head.
if {Grum != Down}{
The handler in front of the stage charges Millie. (1d100)[88] - misses, even though she's stunned. Damage: (2d5+3)[6] (hooray for Bolo knives)
}
else{ He fires his stub pistol at her on semi-auto. (1d100)[94]
Damage: (1d10+3)[8], (1d10+3)[8], (1d10+3)[8]
}
If Millie’s dodge roll was not used against Grum, it will apply here.
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Re: Thy Fearful Symmetry - Dark Heresy (OOC)
Except for Range and Damage, which are the exact same.
