well heres my first attempt at running total war. i will update the first 2 posts with all important information about the setting and everything rules related. depending on the amount of interest i get i will accept 1 or 2 CO-GMs
basic setting info
Spoiler
the world had finally reached an era of peace as the various kingdoms and empires finally finalized their peace treatys and learned to accept eachothers differences... until the shattering came and ruined all hopes of peace as the formerly peaceful world was forced to fight just to survive. in the wake of the shattering many new powers came into play and immediantly joined in the battle for land and glory. some of these new powers are even around today, 500 years after the fact but most of them have since fallen to a variety of causes
the world today
Spoiler
the world today sands on the brink of yet another full scale war as an ancient empire claims the continents western shores as its own and monster hordes rise up from tunnels deep in the earth to particapate in massive raids. but amidst all the turmoil life goes on as farmers continue to plow away at their fields and adventuring bands join together to explore long forgotten dungeons of dread
major NPCs
Spoiler
these npcs are the big movers and shakers of the world at this time but i expect these to change due to all the plotting you all are bound to do
the vale
Spoiler
the vale is a resource rich collection of city-states whose only goal is to be left in peace so they plow their fields and harvest rich ore from their mines. since they only maintain a small army, they protect their lands through a variety of pacts with other nations. whoever controls the vale, controls much of the resource production on the continent
queendom of faluna
Spoiler
the queendom of faluna is a nation settled along the great feitas river. the queendom has been active in the world political stage and is one of the few calm voices of reason remaining amidst all the chaos. although in the aftermath of a violent revolution they have maintained close relations with each of their neighbors. their strong navy is their pride and joy and has saved them many times in the past
zexan consortium
Spoiler
the zexan consortium is a filthy rich group of merchants who formed in the midst of falunas cival war and revolution. the group started off small maintaining only a few small holdings outside of faluna but they have since grown to become one of the worlds largest holders of wealth
nagarean theocracy
Spoiler
the nagarean theocracy is a peaceful nation(most of the time) ruled by a council of five, each the high priest or priestess of his own deities church. this council of 5 has bred much tolerance and religious freedom in its lands. although they are peaceful for the most part they do not take kindly to other nations prosecuting people for their belief. as such they are one of the loudest voices speaking out against the harmonioum empires occupation of the western lands its only a matter of time before it turns to full on war
minor NPCs
Spoiler
these npcs are largely small insignifagant nations there for you to take advantage of. however a few of them are actually major powers who are just uninterested in current affairs
magus conclave
Spoiler
the magus conclave is a council of 36 mages based in 3 towers that are spread around the continent. their goal is to just be left in peace so they can study magical lore in peace. however if things start getting real bad so it disrupts their own affairs then the mages will step in and end the conflict quickly using any means necessary
isle of dhevan
Spoiler
the isle of dhevan is an island nation consisting of the main island of dhevan and multiple smaller islands. the isles goverment is very isolationist and self sufficient. as such they maintain a strong navy and a decent economy but a small army and very little in the way of political contacts
rozarian empire
Spoiler
the rozarian empire is a large isolationist nation located on the eastern side of the continent. since they are isolationist they have learned to be pretty much self sufficient and they maintain a large army to protect themselves. they have also commisioned the gnomes to begin developing military airships
the elven clans
Spoiler
the elven clans are scattered throughout the continents various forests. the elves are a proud people who have held on to their ways of life and remained pretty much neutral in the wars all around them. to defend their way of life each clan contains some of the best warriors and mages in the world
the hellraisers
Spoiler
the hellraisers are a prestigious mercanary company that has recently fallen upon hard times after suffering a major defeat during the harmonioum empires invasion of the western shores where they bravely held the line to the last man. they offer fair rates for their services and have a no questions asked policy. although they absolutely refuse to interfere in internal affairs(such as a civil war)
standard stuff really. just need a backstory of your faction and what you think your stats should look like. any thoughts you have on what you think your factions traits should look like is appreciated but not required
basic stats
Spoiler
each faction will have 24 points divided among the basic stats listed below. these points represent your factions capability in each area
army:how well your faction projects its power on land
navy:how well your faction projects itspower at sea or in the air via airships(once researched)
research:how advanced your faction is technologicly. can be used to research new technologies such as airships and blackpowder weapons
economy:your factions wealth and infrastructure
espionage:your factions intelligance network as well as assasins and commandos. used to read other factions messages as well as perform covert raids
morale:how loyal your factions members are to you. is used to protect your factions messages and assets
magic:your factions knowledge of the art, both arcane and divine. can be used for pretty much anything from supplementing research to blowing up the neibhoring country in a massive display of phyrotechnics
world opinion(WO):how you are viewed by the other factions of the world
traits
Spoiler
each faction will have one or more traits that will either help or hinder your faction in various areas. every trait that hinders your faction will more than likely be balanced ny a beneficial trait.
traits will be generated based off of your factions description and backstory. i will do my best to keep you informed of my progress with your trait and will listen to your input.
EOTs
Spoiler
your EOT will consist of all the actions you would like to accomplish as well as how many of each stat you are investing in it. they can be as short or as detailed as you like. sample EOT below
Spoiler
army: using [+++] of my army to invade the holy harmonioum empire
navy: using [+++++ +] navy to blockade the empires ports and sea routes
espionage: using [+++] espionage to assasinate key imperial officers
economy: shifting all available resources into outfitting my reserves for battle
research: going to begin researching new airship designs
magic: having my [+++++] worth of mages, conjure up hordes of demons. essestially adding [+++++ +++++] to my military
__________________
"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
-suikoden V
Last edited by oblivion6 : 04-06-2012 at 01:13 PM.
Just saying, the link in the Central thread is broken.
My Faction:
Spoiler
The Corrupted
Thousands of years ago, in a universe that might not even be this one, a mighty army fought against demonic hordes. Fought well. Fought Bravely. Fought Triumphantly. Pushing the Demons back of some places of Hell itself, they began to colonize it.
This would, by historians, be considered a very bad move.
For Hell does not take kindly to intruders. It started with just a few more arguments among minor lieutenants, and between the farmers who had moved in. From, there, the arguments grew larger, and soon words were said that could not be taken back. The army, once having striven for its noble purpose, now fell into in-fighting between different leaders, all striving for more power and wealth. And Hell watched on. And Laughed.
Finally, having abandoned their quest to destroy Hell, on one fateful day, one faction turned to the demons themselves for the power they desired. And with this new demonic strength infusing them, they quickly took complete control of the once-good army. Now, traveling through a warped portal in Hell itself, they have arrived in this new world during the time of the Shattering. Through strength and maybe even allies...it shall be theirs. Stats:
Spoiler
Army: Very High. The Corrupted are an army. With supernatural strength. How could they not be focused on their soldiers?
Navy: Medium. The Corrupted prefer to conquer their armies on land and by sieges, but have a decently-sized navy to transport their troops, if needed.
Research: Low. The Corrupted don't need new technology, they can rely on their strength to rip it from the blood of their enemies.
Economy: Low. The Corrupted barely farm, and their main industries are based around warfare: Forging weapons, building ships, and the like.
Espionage: Low. The Corrupted use brute force, not covert deeds, to destroy their enemies.
Morale: High. The Corrupted do not tolerate dissent. Of any kind. Those with low Morale have already been killed off.
Magic: Medium. The Corrupted, though they have few mages, have been given demonic magic to aid their cause.
World Opinion: Practically Nothing. They're part demon. Their cause is to destroy things. Who wouldn't despise them?
VIPs
Spoiler
The Shattered Lord Fuban. Lord Fuban should be dead. As he saw the demon-enhanced army take over his once great force,he himself lead the resistance. But even his strategic and personal might was not enough to stop the demons. Realizing that they might be able to corrupt him, he had his mage-general kill him as the demons stormed into his fortress.
The demons did not let that happen. Finding the General with only a shred of life left in him, they built upon that shard to reanimate the body of the once-proud lord. Though the general fought, the magics of the demons were too much; and he soon became the leader of the new demonic army. However, some say that, deep inside him, lies a shred of his humanity...waiting.
A few questions, as this will be my first TW game (hope you are OK with a noob). How exactly will this work? whenever we try to do something we roll die, and add modifiers from that area? Also how will things like tech and magic and army interact? Are we allowed to have per-existing alliances with the NPC powers? For instance If I wanted my nation to have an alliance with the Vale would that be allowed? As I said this will be my first time so I appreciate any info you can give. Also you mention faction traits, what are they? and where can I find a more in depth description of the rules? Also what is considered the world average for various stats, for instance does the (hypothetical) average nation have 3 in each stat?
That being said Here is my proposed faction
Spoiler
The Venetian Isles
Originally a group of many small island nations (about a dozen nations, with nearly 30 large individual islands, and many small ones) that were fiercely independent, the Venetian Isles was formed during the shattering. With many new powers rising up The Venetians were forced to give up their independence for protection. They realized that they could not stand up to many of the powers in the changed world alone, and as such formed the Venetian Naval Protectorate. Originally intended to be simply a defensive alliance, as time passed and wars occurred the Venetian Alliance was forced to take up more and more duties in order to effectively defend its members. Now the Venetian Naval League is the de-facto government of the islands, and is among the stronger naval powers in the world.
Stats
Spoiler
Subject to change as I get a better understanding of the rules. Assuming 3 is average for a nation.
army:1, The Venetian Naval league focuses more on its navy than its army. Any invasion force will have a hard time landing on the isles, and even if they do they will have only conquered a single island, not nearly the whole nation. And on the smaller ones the navy can simply blockade the island until the invaders surrender (like a siege only on a larger scale). n the larger ones their navy gives the Venetians the ability to launch a counter attack from anywhere on the island, making them hard to hold.
navy: 9, originally intended to be a naval defense alliance the Venetian Naval League still tries to maintain a well funded navy. After all if no one can land on your island then how can they expect to conquer you?
research:4, With trade comes new ideas making the venetians slightly more advanced than average
economy:6, having such a large navy means that the Naval league can easily defend trade routes, leading to a large sea trade structure.
espionage:0, The Venetian League is not concerned with doing things secretly. They can either blatantly buy off those they want to, use their economic power to crash economies, or just use their navy to blockade nations they don't like.
morale:1 The individual islands that make up the Venetian League remember well their original independence, and many want it back.
magic:0, Never magcally inclined the Venetians like the hard sciences more than the whimsical nature of magic.
world opinion(WO):3 Their use of their navy for political purposes is largely canceled out by the increased trade they can bring.
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Last edited by hydroplatypus : 04-08-2012 at 10:03 PM.
A few questions, as this will be my first TW game (hope you are OK with a noob). How exactly will this work? whenever we try to do something we roll die, and add modifiers from that area? Also how will things like tech and magic and army interact? Are we allowed to have per-existing alliances with the NPC powers? For instance If I wanted my nation to have an alliance with the Vale would that be allowed? As I said this will be my first time so I appreciate any info you can give. Also you mention faction traits, what are they? and where can I find a more in depth description of the rules? Also what is considered the world average for various stats, for instance does the (hypothetical) average nation have 3 in each stat?
As a more experienced player (but not the gm) here are my answers:
Whenever you try to do something, you will tell the GM "Here's what I'm doing (including any strategies or such you may have) and here's how many of each stat I'm putting into this operation." These activities will be posted in an EoT report, which you can either post on your private QuickTopic (which Oblivion will make for you) or pmed to the GM (not sure which he(?)'d prefer.
Tech is generally used to help increase stats, usually in a "takes more turns but bigger bonuses" way. I think it can also be used to research individual traits that will improve your faction in a specific way (though may carry a cost).
Traits are usually things that give you a bonus in some circumstances, though impede you on others. An example trait for you would be this:
Spoiler
Union of Many
The Venetian Isles are formed of many different micro-nations, bound into one. With the combined power of all these nations, the Venetian Isles have people possessing specialties in many areas, and, most importantly, ships (Gives 1 extra Navy when fighting defensively, and gives 1 extra point of tech when researching naval-related areas)
However, as most of these nations are hesitant to leave their homes, not entirely trusting the other members of the Isles, your troops and ships often fight worse when not protecting the Isles (Gives a penalty of 1 Army and 1 Navy when the Isles are attacking a foreign nation, for reasons other than defense.)
I assume that NPC alliances would be made in-game, by sending messages and so forth.
Also, usually 0 morale = rebellion; and with 0 Esp and 0 Morale any high-esp faction is going to have a field-day with you. I'm not sure if you were supposed to choose your stats or just describe your nation and have the GM give you them. I AM NOT THE GM. THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHTS AS SOMEONE WHO'S PLAYED TW BEFORE.
EDIT: READ THE POST BELOW THIS FIRST. IT IS WHAT WILL BE RIGHT.
1.at the end of every turn, i will determine how well your actions went based on other factors such as how many stats you invested in it as well as pure luck sometimes based on die rolls i make in secret. in short the results will depend largely on your plans with luck having a huge impact sometimes
2. improved technologies and magic will grant bonuses to your other stats based on what it is you were trying to research or accomplish. such as assigning a unit of mages to your army will grant you bonuses for your military actions whileresearching airships or improved industrial technologies will increase your navy and economy stats respectively
3. most of the time alliances will be formed in game but if you can give me a good reason as to why your faction would have an alliance with them i will consider it.
4. faction traits are just like added bits of fluff and whatnot that grant you special bonuses. for instance a merchant faction might have the following
[world trade] as merchants you have formed contacts in many areas of the world. you will have an easier time finding mercenaries as well as any other exotic goods you may need
5. there really is no complete set of rules that i know of, but it is mainly a freeform game so there are not really any concrete rules other than those i will detail in my above rules post
edit: yes pretty much what @ragingrage just posted he probably did a better job explaining it than i did. im not good at explaining rules
and yes EOTs can either be PMed to me here or posted on quicktopics. as for morale you want it to be above 0 as it counteracts espionage and grants bonuses to most other actions. most of the time in TW you will just post a description of the stats and the GM will determine them based on that. you do have the option of having me make changes to them if theyre not to your liking
__________________
"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
-suikoden V
Last edited by oblivion6 : 04-06-2012 at 12:37 PM.
You metioned VIP rules, what are they?
Also thanks both of you for the info.
OK lets get some traits
Spoiler
As I am unsure how many I get the ones higher on the list are priority, so if we get 2 take the first 2 etc. Union of Many
The Venetian Isles are formed of many different micro-nations, bound into one. With the combined power of all these nations, the Venetian Isles have people possessing specialties in many areas, and, most importantly, ships (Gives 1 extra Navy when fighting defensively, and gives 1 extra point of tech when researching naval-related areas)
However, as most of these nations are hesitant to leave their homes, not entirely trusting the other members of the Isles, your troops and ships often fight worse when not protecting the Isles (Gives a penalty of 1 Army and 1 Navy when the Isles are attacking a foreign nation, for reasons other than defense.)
Thanks ragingrage for the idea, I really like it.
Expert traders
The Venetian Isles have much expertise trading with other nations, and as such gain +1 WO when making economic treaties involving trade. They also gain +1 Navy when defending sea trade routes. However because their empire is focused on trade they are seen as incompetent in matters of offensive war. (-1 WO on anything involving a non-defensive war, such as mutual defense pacts)
World Traders
The Venetian Isles have made many contacts around the world in their time as traders. As such exotic goods are more easily obtained by the Venetian Isles, and Mercenaries are more willing to work with them.
Thanks oblivion6 for the idea
Expert Naval tactics
The Venetians have a long Naval tradition and as such are experienced in using their navy in ways few others think of. (Able to land troops in areas that others would not be able to {within reason of course}{ex. on a rocky shore, where others won't land due as their ships would smash on the rocks
due to the Venetians experience with these tactics.}
Also maybe I could stand to move 1 more point from econ to Morale, as I don't want a single espionage action sending me into revolt. I would still have higher than average Econ, so it still fits thematically, but I would be less likely to revolt. (That being said even with this change revolution is still likely, but whatever, that is part of the theme for the Isles. They resent the gov't but realize it is necessary.)
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
I wan't going to join any other games, but this is just too good to pass up.
Many bonus points to you if you recognize where I'm getting this faction from, without looking it up.
The Risen Empire
Spoiler
History
Spoiler
An empire of mages, long destroyed. A legacy tied to the distant past. Such is the making of a legend. It was once prophesied that the empire would rise again, and that its people would walk the world once more.
The empire fell, crushed beneath the ice of three-thousand years. Its people died, and its magic failed.
The ice ended, and yet the empire remained dead, its ruins serving as the ever-present background for the wars between men and the wars of the gods. Though many looked for it, the great empire did not rise.
Time came, and time went, until the ruins of the great empire were naught but dust; its name forgotten, and its return recorded only in tomes forever lost to mortal eyes due to the shifting earth.
The ages came and went, and still the empire did not rise. No-one can say why it has done so now, with its legacy buried and its name forgotten. Few are the people who even realize that it is an empire of old. One thing is known, though, by the ancient citizens.
The Emperor is Risen. The Emperor calls His subjects, and that call resounds within the Grey Vault. His subjects are answering, and the Empire of Patria rises once more.
Stats
Spoiler
Army: 1
Spoiler
Though a society of mages, the Empire is no stranger to military conflict. Its biggest limitation is that its members tend not to be very keen on actually fighting, and as such its army is relatively small.
Navy: 0
Spoiler
The Empire has only recently ended its landlocked status.
Research: 3
Spoiler
Though not quite on the cutting edge of technology, the Empire is still fairly advanced.
Economy: 2
Spoiler
A goodly infrastructure is forming, with many unique goods. Trade is still limited, though, by the limited time in which it has existed.
Espionage: 1
Spoiler
Relatively few resources have been placed into espionage as of yet, though
Morale: 8
Spoiler
The Emperor is Risen! By His will, we live! For the Emperor and Patria!
Among the citizens of Patria, the Emperor is God. Some very minor dissent might be found in the lower classes, however.
Magic: 8
Spoiler
The Empire was built upon the might of magic. Much of its power lies within its mages, and the majority of its citizens can use magic to one degree or another. One could say that the nature of the Empire is magic.
World Opinion: 1
Spoiler
The Empire has not been in the world for very long, and most people are understandably a bit squeamish due to its nature. The status of its citizens as technically undead doesn't help much, though this is being overcome slowly.
Traits
Spoiler
The Gift
Spoiler
"Undead?" It's a word fraught with traps laid by your Hierarchs, good sir. Look about you, believe your own eyes. Is not this, the city of Scions, cleaner and stronger than your own? Our magics, our knowledge, that of Patria reborn, gives us buildings of gilt marble and metals where you have wood and base granite. To be one of us you need only give up your desperate animal hungers, your diseases, your fear of death. You have heard the tales, and they are all true. Our needs are few, our flesh imperishable, our devices varied and potent. Join us and your life, excuse me, your eternal existence, will be one of ease and delight."
By the Emperor's Gift, the citizens of Patria have attained eternal life. Neither disease nor time shall fell them, and even trapping them without any form of supply will serve only to annoy them. Some Patrians have actually taken to beheading themselves to make their enemies uncomfortable. It is merely an inconvenience.
Unfortunately, however difficult it may be for an Imperial Citizen to die, it is harder for them to reproduce. New citizens answer the Emperors call, and leave the grey wastes of the Bottomless Tomb, but those which are already here find making more to be a rather difficult task. Some research may allow the Gift to be granted to the already living, but until then any new citizens will have to come from the Tomb itself.
Uncreation
Spoiler
The Risen Emperor is a being of singular power, matched, perhaps, by only the gods. Within His nature lies the Oneness of all things. Within His eyes, all things are One, and the boundary between what is and is not is meaningless. The Emperor's power flows throughout all citizens of Patria, and where such power is concentrated the boundaries which normally govern reality are twisted.
Within these warped lands, the boundaries between life and death are twisted. Dead things might continue to grow, and things which all logic says should not be might become so. Such a land is not kind to the living, but for those who have embraced the Gift such a land is as a haven. From such lands many strange and wonderful things might be obtained, though care should be taken that one should not bring back a nightmare instead.
VIPs
Spoiler
The Risen Emperor
Spoiler
The God-Emperor of Patria, Master of the Second Vault. Though unknown to any save Him, the Risen Emperor was once an angel. To be precise, He was once the angel of good intentions. In a time long since past, He entered the grey wastes to obtain information on a potential usurper to the position of the God of the Dead. When He attempted to leave, he was trapped by the God of Deception within a space slightly outside of reality; suspended between the worlds of the living and dead.
As per His arrangements, a large number of souls have followed Him and they too were trapped in that space, which is now known alternatively as the Bottomless Tomb or the Second Vault. It was within this space that He came to straddle the line between what is and is not; the source of His power. It is from the billions of souls trapped within this space that His empire is populated.
In the land of the living, this space is a door carved of black ivory, opening into a courtyard overlooked by the Emperor's throne room. It is from this door that the citizens of Patria emerge.
The Emperor Himself appears as an extraordinarily tall man, armored in what appears to be pure gold. Viewers have reported that around Him, space is compressed. To quote one of the survivors:
Spoiler
"We made our lines just outside the Hawkwood. I was on the hill nearest the road. So I had a good view when they appeared. At first you could just see the sunlight coming off the spearheads and armor. Shiny bastards. I saw the Captain grab his horn, waiting for the Prince's. The plan was to hit them when half of the army was outside the forest. So the signal didn't come. More and more came out from the trees. We'd hoped the Margrave's men would have tied them up, made them leave most their force at the river. A murmur went down the line and the whole thing shifted back a pace when we saw there were three columns marching from the 'wood. The Captain said something and held us, I don't remember what.
Maybe we should have hit them then, but the Prince's horn still didn't blow. Maybe he'd seen what I'd just noticed... One of the columns was wearing our uniforms. Some wore tattered, bloody rags. Some looked like they were on parade. I saw one that looked practically torn to shreds. No one spoke, but the line shuddered. I think it almost broke. The Captain said something again but I wasn't listening. It wasn't just metal that gleamed, but bone. They were dead. All of them, I think, but some of them were smiling anyway. The kind of smile we'll all make in our graves, you know what I mean? I saw that much before *he* came.
A tall man in gold armor on a tall black horse, and the whole hill tilted away under me when he rode into the sunlight. The Scion army stopped, and so did we - everybody just froze in place. The Captain was praying, I could hear, but other than that it was silent. It must have been a trick of the light, or my eyes, but everything seemed to narrow down or funnel around the man on the horse. The Risen Emperor. Then his hand rose up, and the Scion army came to ready. By the time it came down I was already running.
You wanted my tale, and now you have it. You'll get no good word from the Hawkwood. No other word at all. And that's why I'm here, my friend, and why I'm drinking up the last of your wine before it's too late."
Hopefully that works...
I was wanting to get a full-on ten for morale, but combined with the high magic that's really hard to get under the point limit...maybe if I ditched economy and used magic to produce things, but otherwise...
Perhaps a trait that grants a loyalty boost from those that have received the Gift?
I suppose that I'll put together a backup faction, in case the above doesn't work out. Who knows, I may decide to use it instead.
Yes, is it a somewhat more blatant rip-off than the first one, but hopefully there will be enough of a spin on it.
Voile
Spoiler
History
Spoiler
The power of magic can be said to be almost infinite, if applied skillfully enough. No-where is this more true than at the magical library of Voile.
When magic is applied destructively, the damage can be truly immense. When a magician is plucked from her plane, such damage tends to occur rather often. In such a case, disturbing said wizard is not recommended...
Stats
Spoiler
Army: 0
Spoiler
A few golems and elementals are bound more or less permanently, but otherwise magic is used for any combat.
Navy: 0
Spoiler
Ships? How quaint...
Research: 0
Spoiler
Science is merely applied magic. There is no need for such things when one has mastered pure magic.
Economy: 0
Spoiler
Trade? Production? Stop bothering me with such things, and let me get back to my research.
Espionage: 0
Spoiler
Why send out spies when I can simply scry? It's actually easier that way.
Morale: 4
Spoiler
Not the best, but good enough.
World Opinion: 0
Spoiler
You're attacking me for that? Oh, very well...just go invade somewhere over there, or something. Here, I'll even make an army for you to fight.
Magic: 20
Spoiler
So, who do you think wrote most of this library?
Traits
Spoiler
Low population
Spoiler
Voile houses only one person: Patchouli herself. Her bound servants increase these numbers a bit, but not by much.
All told, there are approximately three people in the faction.
Magic of Voile
Spoiler
Voile contains incredible amounts of magical energy. If attacked, the books themselves will use magic to defend the library. Furthermore, if needed, the library can take off and fly to move to other locations.
[+2 when defending Voile]
[+4 to magic to the holder of Voile
VIP
Spoiler
Patchouli Knowledge
Spoiler
The one-week wizard, so named for her mastery of all seven elements. Patchouli wrote the vast majority of the books contained within Voile, and can be thought of as that library's creator.
She has accomplished magic to a sufficient degree as to become immortal, though she is physically weak, suffering from asthma and generally horrible health. She is known for not leaving her library for decades at a time, though with the latest incident it is possible that she will become more active.
If you don't get the second one...go ahead and look it up. Feel free to guess first, though.
__________________
Status: My computer has begun freezing again. Failure ETA unknown.
In progress: Various final projects. Posting may decrease in frequency.
No idea where your empire is from. Very cool idea though. The low econ might be a problem though, as you will have to use your points in magic to make stuff, kinda defeating the purpose. I also have to comment that I seem to be the only one with anything even remotely resembling a positive world opinion. And I only have a 3 in WO.
also @ GM, NVM my earlier comment on moving another point to moral, 1 pt is enough. Might have a revolt at one point but meh, might be interesting.
The interactions between out civs will certainly be interesting. The corruption will basically just be kill slash burn. But my empire probably has more navy then you, making me hard to invade. Especially with the defensive bonuses from the trait you recommended. Wonder if you will end up in a war with the holy harmonioum empire. That would be interesting, and seems inevitable.
Between Isles and the empire Should be more interesting, as there is less of the crush/kill/burn mentality. Your lack of a navy and basic immunity to blockading will mean that war is unlikely between us, as you cannot fight a naval one, and I cannot fight a land one. Your weak economy will likely mean that you have to build up, which could result in a descent trading relationship. Also my lack of magic provides many opportunities to buy magic stuff from you. Perhaps something interesting will come of this.
Also the lack of an espionage nation makes my lack of such a quite insignificant penalty, so hooray (at least so far).
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
I just posted a second faction which I am considering. I'm not sure which I want to play as more...
That much magic might be a touch unbalancing, though...
__________________
Status: My computer has begun freezing again. Failure ETA unknown.
In progress: Various final projects. Posting may decrease in frequency.
I want to say your faction is based on the Jaghut, but I'm not really sure. Also, that 1 army...and no "Islands + High Navy = No attacks" does make you look juicy...
No luck there, though from what I've read it does seem like a good candidate.
Any other guesses?
@oblivion6 What is your opinion on the traits as they are presently formulated?
__________________
Status: My computer has begun freezing again. Failure ETA unknown.
In progress: Various final projects. Posting may decrease in frequency.
I want to say your faction is based on the Jaghut, but I'm not really sure. Also, that 1 army...and no "Islands + High Navy = No attacks" does make you look juicy...
Nope my faction is not (intentionally) based on anything in particular. The closest I came was thinking of Venice controlling trade via their navy, and just expanded form there to the point where it isn't really like Venice at all.
And I suppose that attacking my nation wouldn't be impossible, however it would certainly be difficult. I mean on defense I have 2 army and 10 Navy, combined with a fairly large Econ that I can spend on mercs I would be hard to conquor. That being said if you gian cotrol of multiple large islands I have a serious problem. Lets have a hypothetical combat just to throw some ideas out there.
Post your ideas about how the invasion would differ from my scenario presented below.
The way I see it your first step would have to be to get your army to my islands, and you would likely lose a good bit of troops (if any got through at all) to my Navy (unless you have more navy than I think). Now suppose you land on an island. I then destroy your transport ships and you are stuck. Evacuate as many citizens as possible from the island and firebomb anything near the coastline. Your army is now stuck, and I firebomb anything near the coastline. Then I blockade the island, making supplies scarce. Then I hire Large #s of mercs and start usin the tactical superiority that my navy gives to land troops to strike at weak points. Your supply lines will be destroyed and starvation will become a problem. Eventually your survivors will be weak enough that my army + mercs will overpower you. Granted this probably makes a lot of assumptions that I am unaware of, so post how it would differ from this, and how you would counter stuff like this.
Edit: So basically you could cause a lot of damage and mabye if you put your full nation behind it you could win, however you wouldn't have much left afterwards (granted neither would I).
Also GM: how strong would my navy be compared to various NPC nations?
Edit 2: I still have no Idea how VIPs work, but lets make some
Spoiler
Antonio da Parma: Grand Admiral of the League
Title Description: Basically as the Naval League was originally formed as a simple military alliance the title for its leader is Grand Admiral. Despite the increased governing duties it has taken the title has remained unchanged.
Character description: Antonio da Parma is the current ruler of the Venetian Naval League. He is a fairly competent ruler, but not exceptional. Due to politics he has to defer to the council of islands on most issues during peacetime, but is given absolute command during a war. He thinks that the council is a bunch of bickering noblemen who have no understanding of how to run a nation, but keeps it to himself. A show of disunity could further weaken the governments already tenuous command of the islands.
Caterina di Franco: Minister of Trade
Title description: generally responsible for controlling the trading relationships between The Venetian Isles and other nations. Negotiates things like trade agreements. Council Member
Character description: One of the few allies Antonio has on the council Caterina is good at her job, under her trade has flourished, and the isles have become more prosperous than ever before.
Francisco Caravello: Fleet Admiral
Commander of the Navy Caravello thinks that the Venetian league should be more agressive in its efforts to expand its trading network. He supports using the navy/hired mercs to force smaller nations to become more open to trade. He is significantly at odds with Antonio
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Last edited by hydroplatypus : 04-06-2012 at 05:18 PM.
Nope my faction is not (intentionally) based on anything in particular. The closest I came was thinking of Venice controlling trade via their navy, and just expanded form there to the point where it isn't really like Venice at all.
And I suppose that attacking my nation wouldn't be impossible, however it would certainly be difficult. I mean on defense I have 2 army and 10 Navy, combined with a fairly large Econ that I can spend on mercs I would be hard to conquor. That being said if you gian cotrol of multiple large islands I have a serious problem. Lets have a hypothetical combat just to throw some ideas out there.
Post your ideas about how the invasion would differ from my scenario presented below.
The way I see it your first step would have to be to get your army to my islands, and you would likely lose a good bit of troops (if any got through at all) to my Navy (unless you have more navy than I think). Now suppose you land on an island. I then destroy your transport ships and you are stuck. Evacuate as many citizens as possible from the island and firebomb anything near the coastline. Your army is now stuck, and I firebomb anything near the coastline. Then I blockade the island, making supplies scarce. Then I hire Large #s of mercs and start usin the tactical superiority that my navy gives to land troops to strike at weak points. Your supply lines will be destroyed and starvation will become a problem. Eventually your survivors will be weak enough that my army + mercs will overpower you. Granted this probably makes a lot of assumptions that I am unaware of, so post how it would differ from this, and how you would counter stuff like this.
Edit: So basically you could cause a lot of damage and mabye if you put your full nation behind it you could win, however you wouldn't have much left afterwards (granted neither would I).
I was referring to NM's faction as being based off the Jaghut (a group of magical "giants" from the book series the Malazan Tale of the Fallen)
I have been trying (and failing) to come up with a way to "conquer" you without ending up in the situation you describe. I was thinking of using some magical teleportation, maybe, to teleport small sections of units (+- army) to individual islands (the most important ones) before teleporting them back; and slowly killing you that way. Not really sure though
My suggestion: Use teleportation, if you can get it, to hit any dockyards and ports. Pull out before facing serious opposition, but mostly use hit and run tactics to wipe out their ability to replenish their forces and conduct trade. From there, victory should be more possible.
The critical difference is that one of you has magic while the other does not. Exploit that.
To remain somewhat neutral, a counter-strategy:
You'll be able to predict where attacks are coming. Set up an ambush and take out the incoming forces. With your superior economy, you should be far better suited for a war of attrition. Take advantage of this.
__________________
Status: My computer has begun freezing again. Failure ETA unknown.
In progress: Various final projects. Posting may decrease in frequency.
wow. i leave home for just a few hours and now i have all this to read
i will work on responding to everyones questions in a bit. as to what i have skimmed through so far
@hydro: your navy is certainly one of the largest currently. only 3 nations who might have a chance in a straight up naval battle would be
1.the queendom of faluna but theyre mainly river craft and small ships not meant for high seas
2. the harmonioum empire only because theyre so much bigger than everyone
3. isle of dhevan. i will detail them later
everyone: vips are basicly the leaders of your faction. i will assign them points between various ability stats based on your description of them. also for the record... just post a description of your stats and i will assign them points
__________________
"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
The Deep Trolls (They Call themselves the Grim)
History
Spoiler
Deep beneath the Northern mountins, the Deep trolls have worked for uncounted ages. The most intelligent Branch of the Troll family, they're also unique in that magic does not touch them, nor can they it. Their Weapons and Armor are the subject of a thousand Legands. They rarely have contact with the outside world.
Stats
Spoiler
Navy; They live undergound. They have no navy.
Magic; They cannot use magic in any way shape or form. They are immune to Direct magical effects.
ESP; They don't use spies. They have none.
WO; While many would run screaming because thy're trolls, the right people know they have the Tech to make it rich.
Army; They're fortress have never fallen. Cities they built on the surface have come away from magical strikes the equal of a nuke, and seem unharmed. They suck at offence, but rule at defense.
ECON; They've been nisolated for long periods of time. As such, they have a outragouly effcinet and infrastructre and supply base.
Research; They us technoloy that baffles others. They've practiced the Technological arts for thousands of years, and it shows.
__________________
98% of the internet has a Myspace. If you're one of the 2% who isn't an emo whiner, show solidarity by putting this in your sig.
Spoiler
dragonflycave.com/newpay.aspx][/url]
Last edited by Grimsage Matt : 04-06-2012 at 06:13 PM.
@NM: lets use your risen empire idea. the other might be quite unbalanced due to the amount of magic. i will make you a quicktopic later
@hydro: i will post your trait over on your quicktopics page later or tomorrow
as to your dilemma about invading hydros islands i have a few solutions
1. invade with airships or normal warships armed with blackpowder cannons. give you a decisive advantage
2. use your magic to make the seas around the islands rough. perhaps a whirlpool or two. thus rendering the navy useless.
3. disguise a few mages as merchants or wary travelers, sneak them into the island using espionage and then have your mages conjure up portals to hell. ask the corrupted if you need advice on portals to hell
edit: oh. looks like my laranese gnomes will have some competition in research @grimsage. i havnt put them up yet but i was planning on a high research faction
__________________
"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
-suikoden V
Last edited by oblivion6 : 04-06-2012 at 06:39 PM.
@raginrage: Ya teleportation would use up your magic quickly, and I can just buy anti-teleportation magic to protect at least some of the more vital areas. I imagine that teleporting an entire army is beyond you, so the areas left open could be defended well. Port towns would have ships which could take out any teleporting troops who don't teleport right into the center of the town. And my army although small can defend key points (probably) from small teleporting groups. It seems like a lot of magic use for only a small gain. Furthermore if I need more troops mercs can hold for a while. So during this period you are using massive amounts of magic and at least some of your army for small gains. You would sustain at least some casualties, weakening you.
And this ignores all likely revenge I could take. Your navy probably won’t stop me from killing yours, so those points are wasted. Then I burn and/or loot (based on garrison strength) your costal towns/encampments. I mean if you are being bombed from offshore what are you going to do? If you ship any supplies by boat you now have massive logistical issues, as well as a coastline vulnerable to anyone who could possibly want to invade you (so everyone as your WO is nonexistant). If I can manage to 1 or 2 land nations to attack you than I can land mercs wherever I want on the coast, and you have to defend a land front and THE ENTIRE COASTLINE. I mean every encampment/forge/farm (cause you obviously need some way to get food) could be under attack. Unless you spread your army really really thin than you are screwed as I destroy your supply lines and retreat back to my ships before you can retaliate in force. Even if I don’t have the forces I imagine that I could use my navy to transport someone who does have the forces to do this. You might live through this (likely due to army strength) but the logistical peoblems would cause casualties, the economy would not exist, and your navy would be at the bottom of the ocean. Oh and your magic would have been used on teleporting, so you don’t have that either. So you lose a lot, and while I would take losses they would be proportionally less than you due to the high econ score I have (basically I can replace economic losses faster, while you are hard pressed to replace them at all). So that still ends up screwing you over, at least until you conquer enough people for a descent navy. But if you wait my research kicks in, and I am even stronger. Probably will eventually research some magic so I don’t have to spend econ on teleport resistance too. And since airships have been mentioned I will likely get them too if you wait too long. So I am then not restricted to bombing costal towns. Barrels full of oil with a torch thrown afterwards will probably destroy a good portion of your stuff.
I am hard pressed to come up with any way you would come out ahead in a war between us.
@ NM020110: Ya the lack of magic will be a pain, but in the short term I can buy some and use it to funnel teleporters into kill-zones (like where a good chunk of my navy sits just offshore and kills them). And as I said above the economic advantage combined with complete Naval dominance will let me do more econ damage to him (and faster) than he can to me, so I can withstand attrition better.
Cause I like hypothetical war scenarios I am trying to think of a way to invade/cause damage to you (assume empire). I suppose that I could damage the few costal towns, and maybe disrupt a little trade, but I’m not sure what to do beyond that. I suppose I could exert economic pressure to crash your economy, but that would really be hard to do. I suppose low WO would make it easier to do, but your magic could cause me massive problems. I suppose I could get some other nations to help, combined with mercs, due to your low army. That would at least keep the destruction magic focused on your lands, instead of mine. And if you continue focusing on mine your army can’t stand up. That being said I don’t have too good odds.
@Grimsage Matt: trolls sound interesting. Where do they get food though? Anyway If I can manage to secure a trade route/agreement (do you have any costal lands? or tunnels under costal lands?) I might be buying some of that tech. Your econ will be high, which is good. Can buy what you want (maybe if the enemy and price is right you can even hire my Navy for a while, perhaps for this invasion of the Corrupted talked about above?).
Because I like to do hypothetical wars I am trying to think of how to invade/destroy you. This is causing difficulty due to the lack of naval assets that I see, however I might have a solution. How close to the coast are your tunnels, and how many are below sea level? If those factors work out well than just flooding your entire area might be possible. Other than that I am at an impasse as your army is to strong for mercs to take, and your tech might allow you to cause me problems (especially if you have airships, the ability to bypass my navy would be a problem).
Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblivion6
@NM: lets use your risen empire idea. the other might be quite unbalanced due to the amount of magic. i will make you a quicktopic later
@hydro: i will post your trait over on your quicktopics page later or tomorrow
as to your dilemma about invading hydros islands i have a few solutions
1. invade with airships or normal warships armed with blackpowder cannons. give you a decisive advantage
2. use your magic to make the seas around the islands rough. perhaps a whirlpool or two. thus rendering the navy useless.
3. disguise a few mages as merchants or wary travelers, sneak them into the island using espionage and then have your mages conjure up portals to hell. ask the corrupted if you need advice on portals to hell
The first seems unlikely as the corupted have low tech (certainly lower than me, so if they have that I would likely have it too), and they don't have the econ to really purchase them.
2. There are dozens of major islands, it would take a lot of whirlpools to make my navy useless (and probably a lot of magic too). And wouldn't that make the invasion navy also useless?
3. This might be a problem, depending on where the portals open, but massive retaliation against the corrupted would hopefully deter that. If the portal opens near the cost the navy can just destroy it. Inland would be a problem, but having dozens of major islands will somewhat offset this. The lack of magic would make it necessary to hire mages to close them however, which would be a major problem. Also the corupted have low espionage, so they probably don't have the resources to pull this off too well. Granted if another nation tried this one
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
Last edited by hydroplatypus : 04-06-2012 at 07:12 PM.
Let's see, if you were to start a war against me...
Considering how long the Empire has been active in the world (4-5 years) and how long they've not been landlocked (around a year), blockades aren't going to do much. Since my economy is mostly internal thus far (still looking to open trade with others), economic pressure might be a tad difficult to use. Perhaps if trade were established first, then it could be a viable strategy.
Still, I don't see a war as being too likely for a while. This faction is meant to be a steamroller type; weak in the beginning but gradually building momentum. Probably the tipping point will be when my entire population growth does not consist of people walking through a single 5x10 doorway...
If war does come to pass...well, it's a war of economy vs. magic. Victory would be determine by who struck first, most likely.
I suspect that espionage will be your greatest weakness, however. Just imagine the damage that could be done by impersonating the port authorities...
__________________
Status: My computer has begun freezing again. Failure ETA unknown.
In progress: Various final projects. Posting may decrease in frequency.
The Deep trolls have several underground farms This is gone by building by Aquafiers(Undergound lakes), and having cunning crystals redrict sunlight for the crops. My underground territory dosn't take me to near the coast, but a couple of land nations deepest mines are closer to the highest parts of my territory. Also, my guys like staying on the ground, and don't like getting out much. Also, they're trolls, and all entrences to their territory would be from choke points. Part of their defences? Moving walls But, in all seriouness, my guys are laid back, tired of explaing "Yes we're trolls. No, we're not going to eat you", who didicate their lives to the pursiut of technology.
__________________
98% of the internet has a Myspace. If you're one of the 2% who isn't an emo whiner, show solidarity by putting this in your sig.
none of you seem to be taking into consideration the many major and minor NPCs scattered around. depending on the circumstances they might choose a side in such a war
i also finished up the major npcs in my 1st post. later i plan to start on minor npcs and potential political hotspots for you to take advantage of
__________________
"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
Aside from the Harmonium being "neutral", the Vale having defensive pacts, and the Nagarean Theocracy being anti-Harmonium, I'm not seeing much in the way of diplomatic information from the major powers. It's rather hard to guess what their actions will be, due to that.
About the only thing that I can read from that is that the Harmonium is unlikely to intervene in any early wars, unless the sides are starting to look a little too weak, in which case they'll probably enter and make a land grab...
Otherwise, I'm not sure that their actions can be predicted. Thus, I'm going with the assumption that they aren't likely to invade without warning, unless given a reason and an opportunity to do so.
I look forward to seeing the minor npc factions. It will be quite helpful for getting a better view of the world, and to see if there is anyone else with much magical power...
__________________
Status: My computer has begun freezing again. Failure ETA unknown.
In progress: Various final projects. Posting may decrease in frequency.
Troll-Kin; The First time they meet someone, they're WO is treated as 4 lower unless they have someone to vouch for them, in wich case it's only 2 lower.
Deepdwellers; While sunlight does not harm them, it does make them unfortable. Their army and navy is treated as 2 less durning the day on the surface.
Magic Void; They cannot use magic. They may never learn to use magic, or activate magical items. They are Immune to Direct magic effects (Positive and negative).
Benifits
Spoiler
Technologicaly advanced; +3 to research.
Impressive Engeering; Buildings they make are far stronger, harder to break and longer to last, and incorperate mechanical concepts.
Legandary Craftsmanship; They build weapons and armor for the gods, and while the Gods may have enchanted them, the physical Framework for it was provided by the Deep trolls. They can increase the amount of time needed to make something in order to increase it's strength by the extra time they put into it.
VIPS
Spoiler
Genreal Bommard; In charge of the Various Citadels Defenses, he aquired his name becuase he uses blast powder weapons to "Bombard" invaders. He is a member of the "Blast-powder Keggers" a substantial group who advocate the development and use of Blast powder. Ties to the millitary and Research wings.
Sargent Surge; One of the more, essentric, millitary kinds, he advocates the
use of "Shock Tech", or electristiy. Will admit to stealing him from pokemon. Ties to Army and Research.
Steam Lord Coilfist; The Head of the "Coal Burners", he's in charge of the various steampowered systems you'll find. Ties to Research and ECON.
Dirt-Taster; The head of the "Growing Rock", he's in charge of the various farm and fishing operations around the Aquafeirs. Ties to Econ and Research.
The Grim Thane; Both Name and Title, the Grim Thane is the Face of the Deep Trolls. The Thanes are unique among the Deep trolls, because they pocess a special Biological abillity. When they die, a candidate can lay their hands on their brain. The RNA mamories of the Thanes then flow into the candidate. If they survive, they are the new Thane, and pocess memories going back thousands of years. They can give ordes that cannot be disputed, but rarely do so, instead acting as moderators.
__________________
98% of the internet has a Myspace. If you're one of the 2% who isn't an emo whiner, show solidarity by putting this in your sig.
Spoiler
dragonflycave.com/newpay.aspx][/url]
Last edited by Grimsage Matt : 04-07-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Aside from the Harmonium being "neutral", the Vale having defensive pacts, and the Nagarean Theocracy being anti-Harmonium, I'm not seeing much in the way of diplomatic information from the major powers. It's rather hard to guess what their actions will be, due to that.
About the only thing that I can read from that is that the Harmonium is unlikely to intervene in any early wars, unless the sides are starting to look a little too weak, in which case they'll probably enter and make a land grab...
Otherwise, I'm not sure that their actions can be predicted. Thus, I'm going with the assumption that they aren't likely to invade without warning, unless given a reason and an opportunity to do so.
I look forward to seeing the minor npc factions. It will be quite helpful for getting a better view of the world, and to see if there is anyone else with much magical power...
no. they are not likely to invade without warning. although they might have some plotting going on against each other and minor npcs
speaking of minor npcs... there is a powerful circle of magi, but they are disorganized and dont actively participate in worldly affairs unless you really start throwing the world out of whack. most of these minor npcs are likely not powerful enough to challange you acting alone. those that are that powerful are not very concerned with political affairs unless it directly concerns them.(think of the U.S before WW2. isolationist's)
in short the minor npcs are just there to provide fluff and for people to cleverly manipulate. do not underestimate a combined coalition of these small nations
__________________
"let our mercy, as deep as the feitas, and our auhority, as powerful as the sun, be revealed to the entire world!"
"Damn! I gotta say, you just let down every man in Falena..."
with your low espionage and morale it wouldnt take much for a small group of mages to sneak in
True, however The corrupted don't really have espionage either, which would likely make it a toss up if they succeed. A high espionage nation could screw me over, but we already established this. I mainly rely on massive retaliation to dissuade this type of thing from any coastal nations (and really who else would want to attack me). Yay for burning any and all coastal cities to the ground.
@NM020110: yup a war does seem terribly unlikely unless something massive changes. And about the port Authorities ... This might be a problem. But ya, espionage will be my biggest weakness. If it becomes a problem I can hire some counter-spies for a while though. Won't stop it, but will blunt the worst of it.
@Grimsage Matt: Ya any war between us would go absolutely no-where. Doesn't seem likely it will happen. You have a hard time getting to me and vise versa. Trade will also be difficult . Oh well.
@NM020110: Ya there isn't too much info yet, however I am starting to think that planning for a Harmonium/Nagarean war might be a good idea. The Harmonium seem too large already, so in the event of a war hopefully we can get a major alliance to help the Nagareans. Blockading ports and tying up the empire's Navy would likely be my major contribution, and if we can get an allied Naval Nation we could raid/burn port towns.
Until this war comes though The Venetian Isles will likely be focused on trade, and infustructure (econ generally). Mabye do a bit of research into cannons for the navy or airships, or mabye use it to bring morale a little bit higher.
@oblivion6: hmm... That circle of Magi could hopefully be persuaded to join a defensive alliance with the Venetian Isles, as neither of them are interested in wars. Would cover up my lack of magic too, if a war were to break out.
If the harmonium start expanding they might also be persuaded to intervene (one massive empire conquoring everyone probably counts as throwing the world out of whack).
__________________
"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else" - Eliezer Yudkowsky
I am planing to expand to one costal fortress, Imagine what looks like a pair of massive gates carved into the side of a sea cliff, that lets out steam powered ships.
__________________
98% of the internet has a Myspace. If you're one of the 2% who isn't an emo whiner, show solidarity by putting this in your sig.
RSS Feeds: 
TW: epic fantasy(OOC)
im not good at explaining rules
[/url]
But, in all seriouness, my guys are laid back, tired of explaing "Yes we're trolls. No, we're not going to eat you", who didicate their lives to the pursiut of technology.
. Oh well.
