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Old 04-06-2012, 11:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
radmelon
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Default Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (PEACH)

Kobolds

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Old 04-06-2012, 11:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Empedocles
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Post Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Lots of flanking potential...

Not sure how this would balance at higher levels (like, you have 4 kobolds but you have levels in something broken like druid) and it needs some clarifications (back to druid: do they all wild shape? can two wildshape and the other two use them as mounts?) but it's an extremely cool concept.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
radmelon
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Like I mentioned in the comments, It's based on Hyudra's Goblins class, and I haven't changed much from that base.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:57 AM   Top  -  End  -  #4
radmelon
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

No comments? Oh well. I'll just try to continue by myself.

I was thinking that the fact that you control 4 kobolds is pretty strong, so I'm trying to think of ways to reduce the ridiculousness.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:33 AM   Top  -  End  -  #5
toapat
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

from what i understand, this class becomes crazy awesome when you
A: Have 4 Venerable DragonWrought Kobold Sorcerers
B: Spam Quickened Magic Missiles

other interesting situations i feel this brings up is if your kobold squad contains a Pious Templar, and a Rogue.

and of course, there is when you have a Kobold druid on your team high enough level to wild shape into a Sarrukh, that you now have a team of pun-puns
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:48 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
radmelon
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Well the thing is, all kobolds are a single class, and they are effectively a single character for pretty much anything. They're kinda like a swarm. I am going to have to address the shapeshifting issue. Any suggestions how it should work? I feel that getting 4 copies of whatever you turn into is overpowered, but having all kobolds meld into one creature is strange. Maybe only have the transformation affect one of them? So if you turn into a bear you are instead a bear and 3, weaker, kobolds.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:54 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
toapat
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

i think the first issue you really need to address is the leveling of the kobolds, because while this is a decent class, you certainly wont be getting too much in the way of long term gameplay if your squadbolds dont level up.

also: Capstone:
We are Legion: Your Kobolds only fall unconcious when no member of the squad has greater then 0 Health
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Last edited by toapat : 04-08-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
radmelon
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

The kobolds all level up as one. They're all one character, and for almost all effects count as one creature. I'm not sure what the confusion is.

And it doesn't need a capstone, being a 1-level class.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:18 AM   Top  -  End  -  #9
zetsu1919
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

i like this class, and i can see uses for it as a monster that characters can fight in my campaign, fighting one character as opposed to 4 separate weak kobalds.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:44 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
radmelon
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

So, does anyone have any objections to having polymorphs only affect one kobold? Or should polymorphs meld them all together?
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
toapat
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Quote:
Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
The kobolds all level up as one. They're all one character, and for almost all effects count as one creature. I'm not sure what the confusion is.
ok, what i mean is confusing is it doesnt say anywhere in definite terms whether these kobolds actually level into the same class, or whether they can split up. yes, they are treated as one entity for nearly everything, but we are still talking about what would essentially be the opposite of a gestalt character.

the Rules also state player, not Kobold or DM

asto how polymorph effects them: unfortunately, this is 4 kobolds, not 3, so hilarity where say, you polymorph one, and the other 2 become bears that attach to the first one's arms, dont happen. but then there is always the problem of polymorphing them into a Sarrukh.

make them immune to polymorph spells?
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
zetsu1919
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

immunity to polymorph, and therefor inability to wildshape may work
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Now a kobald warblade with army of one sounds hilarious... 12 kobald one player charge! quite the zurg rush...
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
radmelon
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

So, the popular vote seems to be that immunity to polymorph is the way to go. This seems somewhat balanced, not giving too many benefits and keeping things simple.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
toapat
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

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Originally Posted by radmelon View Post
So, the popular vote seems to be that immunity to polymorph is the way to go. This seems somewhat balanced, not giving too many benefits and keeping things simple.
the problem is, its not balanced. Ranger and druid take massive hits here. the only reason this is balanced is because we prevent overpowered things like punpun from happening
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
NineThePuma
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Only one of the Kobolds change form seems like a solid methodology.

One Kobold turns into a Bear! The other three start -riding the bear-
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
toapat
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

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Only one of the Kobolds change form seems like a solid methodology.

One Kobold turns into a Bear! The other three start -riding the bear-
One kobold turns into a Sarrukh, uses Manipulate Form, and grants the other 3 Manipulate form

3 Weeks later:

Slay the Time dragon by believing it Doesnt exist
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Last edited by toapat : 04-11-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
NineThePuma
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

This class isn't aimed to fix the PunPun exploit.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
Mystic Muse
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Saying the class is broken because it can exploit pun-pun is pretty much irrelevant. By that logic, the Paladin is broken.

The class itself says that you control four, but it keeps making reference to you controlling 3.

Also, in the future, I'd ask Hyudra if she's okay with you doing something like this.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
toapat
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

actually, i think the solution we need is simply, Immunity to Manipulate Form
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
NineThePuma
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

Or, if the DM is willing to allow Punpun, you use punpun and it doesn't matter if you took this class or not.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

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Saying the class is broken because it can exploit pun-pun is pretty much irrelevant. By that logic, the Paladin is broken.

The class itself says that you control four, but it keeps making reference to you controlling 3.

Also, in the future, I'd ask Hyudra if she's okay with you doing something like this.
1: Yeah, punpun is broken, I'm leaving it at that.
2: Copypasta errors. Will fix.
3. Asking Hyudra was the first thing I did before starting on this project. Approval was gotten.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
Mystic Muse
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class]

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3. Asking Hyudra was the first thing I did before starting on this project. Approval was gotten.
Alright. Glad to hear that.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:37 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (WIP, PEACH)

the mob template comes to mind... here is a good improvent upon it
might make it simpler to make it a variation on the led unit... watered down a little with stuff boosting it later.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:59 AM   Top  -  End  -  #25
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (WIP, PEACH)

I was wondering if there was anything more for this project? Some additional racial feats?

I'm going to try to lobby the next base class contest to be either racial progression for 20 levels or an itemist (a person that specializes with a magical item. First thing that comes to mind is a chaos flask specialist)

Anywho I love this whole mob body. Thing that Hyudra did, but I have to agree I like kobolds much better. I especially like that there are 4 instead of 3. Coming up with wonderful tactics would be great fun. I'm not good with balance but if you are looking for more ideas let me know.

Does the Kobold mob grow with each HD? I don't think it does but that would be a pretty cool Paragon Monster racial class feature.

I hope this Monster Class is remembered when(if) that 20 level racial progression contest (hopefully) starts
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:13 AM   Top  -  End  -  #26
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (WIP, PEACH)

This is adorable.

I mean that literally. I am sitting here with eyes the size of dinner plates, continuously inhaling in utter adorablosity.

I can't actually think about anything right now in terms of suggestions. Because it's too damn adorable.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #27
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (WIP, PEACH)

so.....what about swarm fighting.....?
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:04 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (WIP, PEACH)

Nice
Make a stronger version that consists of 3.
ill show it to one of the guys in structred games.
he would love that.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:11 AM   Top  -  End  -  #29
radmelon
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (WIP, PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuixote View Post
This is adorable.

I mean that literally. I am sitting here with eyes the size of dinner plates, continuously inhaling in utter adorablosity.

I can't actually think about anything right now in terms of suggestions. Because it's too damn adorable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merchant View Post
I was wondering if there was anything more for this project? Some additional racial feats?

I'm going to try to lobby the next base class contest to be either racial progression for 20 levels or an itemist (a person that specializes with a magical item. First thing that comes to mind is a chaos flask specialist)

Anywho I love this whole mob body. Thing that Hyudra did, but I have to agree I like kobolds much better. I especially like that there are 4 instead of 3. Coming up with wonderful tactics would be great fun. I'm not good with balance but if you are looking for more ideas let me know.

Does the Kobold mob grow with each HD? I don't think it does but that would be a pretty cool Paragon Monster racial class feature.

I hope this Monster Class is remembered when(if) that 20 level racial progression contest (hopefully) starts
No, it doesn't gorw with HD. The reason it has 4 is that improved monster classes are usually one level per CR of the creature, and kobolds are CR 1/4.
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Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
so.....what about swarm fighting.....?
That is a good question. I'll have to think about that.
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Originally Posted by super dark33 View Post
Nice
Make a stronger version that consists of 3.
ill show it to one of the guys in structred games.
he would love that.
As stated above, there is precisely 4 because kobolds = CR 1/4. I suppose you could make a modified version with 3, but that's not what I'm doing now.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:22 AM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Hyudra
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Default Re: Kobolds! [3.5, Improved Monster Class] (WIP, PEACH)

Actually, you're going to run into some pretty intense scaling issues with four rather than three. Run the numbers and you'll find that's a hell of a lot of damage early on, if you shell out for four longspears and/or four heavy crossbows.

I'd say 3 and make it -2 strength (rather than -1) at a minimum.

And yes, Radmelon did get in contact with me to get permission to use my idea & try to smooth out the wrinkles.

Last edited by Hyudra : 04-12-2012 at 09:23 AM.
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