RP city game, invite only OoC

[BelGareth]

Okay, so this has turned into the OOC for the RP City game.

Current players:

Derjuin ?
SamBurke
Golden Ladybug
GuyFawkes

As a group, lets decide/invite the other players.

Also continue on making the city!

Original thread.

[Golden Ladybug]

Hmm... Grue did have a good point

Anyway, porting over the world building stuff

Spoiler

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

Since this is supposed to be player-centric, I think it's best to let people think of what factions they want to have their characters be in first, before ironing out all the other things. That way, players get to choose whatever they want without finding already set limitations. After that, then we fill the gaps and make the interconnection between the elements of the story seamless.

Originally Posted by Golden Ladybug

EDIT: So, I missed stuff while crafting this long rant about various things. Response to the new stuff!

The removal of those social skills means that Sky is most definitely out, since she had a lot of fun times using and abusing them. Especially Bluff. Stupidly so. I'll probably still build a Socialite Changeling, though, but with a much darker and more mischevious outlook than Sky [Insert Evil Laughter]

Faction-wise, I think it would definitely be a good idea to start calling out with what you want to run. I don't have any particular faction that I'd like to run right now, beyond a desire to crush you all with my cunning schemes

I'm, of course, quite happy to use the Cloud City map again. Just as long as this city doesn't get filled with manevolent Zombies who want to eat us because of that damn Cleric of Happiness and Bunnies.

Heck, if you rotate it 90 degrees, we might even be able to get away with saying its a different map

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Don't worry, I got this

For the racial makeup of the city, I propose that we steer clear of the "PHB City and the MM City" Concept that most campaign settings seem to roll with. Lets make this place a melting pot of different races. Lets throw Kenku, Gnolls, Lizardfolk, Nycter, Ogres, Tibbits, Dvati, Yuan-Ti, Dromites, Thri-Kreen, Elans (playing up the Aberration aspect, of course), Giants, Shifters, Changelings, Warforged and anything else that might be cool. The city will have to be pretty big, of course, but why is that a bad thing?

I really like multi-racial cities like this, because they are just so evocative and visually distinctive. Compare these two descriptions, and tell me which is more interesting;

Spoiler

You enter the tavern, searching for rumours. A quick glance around the crowded room reveals much; a trio of small crow-like creatures in body concealing cloaks, playing a round of pool, next to a Hyena-headed woman quaffing from an oversized mug, passed to her by a stooped Ogre behind the bar. A Humanoid Lizard is playing a hand of cards with a Bat-person, hanging from the ceiling, while a nearby Insectoid with four arms slams its fists on the table, obviously angered from its discussion with two humans.

A tabby cat lying curled up beneath the bar unfolds itself, and suddenly a small human has taken its place, before it walks past a pair of identical, pale white humanoids sharing a mug of ale. A member of a local street gang catches your eye, and you head over to the snake-like man sweating in the far corner

Spoiler

You enter the tavern, searching for rumours. A quick glance around the crowded room reveals much; a trio of men in body concealing cloaks, playing a round of pool, next to an angry woman quaffing from an oversized mug, passed to her by a stooped man behind the bar. A tall man is playing a hand of cards with a youth, barely old enough to be in her, while a nearby man slams his fists on the table, obviously angered from its discussion with two other humans.

A tabby cat lying curled up beneath the bar unfolds itself, and it walks past a pair of identical twins sharing a mug of ale. A member of a local street gang catches your eye, and you head over to the man sweating in the far corner

While neither is a masterpiece of creative writing, the first conjures a much more colourful mental image, no?

I can't claim to know too much about Government theory, but I've always liked the idea of Oligarchy for use in D&D; the image of a Council of Elders is almost as Archetypical as a Monarchy, and considering we're going to all be playing in this city (and, hopefully, in opposition to each other; I find that Player Driven games are really, really good for PvP, of a sort), why not have an outlet for all, or some, of us to gain power.

Lets, for the sake of this example, say that there are three Parties who have control of the city...and there are six of us

The Alignment of the City depends on the game we want to play; I'm looking at this game and seeing an awesome opportunity for faction-based intrigue PvP, so I think Lawful Evil would fit really well for that.

I'm ambivalent as to whether the city is a state in-and-of itself or beholden to a larger kingdom. Would probably lean towards a city state if I had to choose.

Ooooh, Cultural Taboos

I'd like to say that Necromancy is accepted in the City, just to go against convention. Perhaps its a niche business, using Mindless Undead as cheap labour or somesuch. Perhaps this is coupled with the Cities Burial Customs; those who have no scruples against such things may sell the rites to their body after death to Necromancers, whereas those who feel a bit squeamish about the whole affair make sure to be cremated. Bodies buried a certain amount of time ago might be sold to Necromancers by government officials in an official capacity.

Yeah, I think that could be cool, if developed a little bit more. I'll work on that a bit when I have some spare time.

For other taboos, I would love to half Half-breeds be shunned and discriminated against. Half-Elfs, Half-Orcs, Changelings, Shifters, Mongrelfolk, Aventi, etc, etc are all treated really poorly in the city, second class citizens at best. I envision the city putting PHB Races at the top, monstrous races slightly below, and the Half-breeds down in the mud.

Um, what else...how about making Promises sacrosanct? Oaths and bargains are taken very seriously in this city, and breaking them is a sure path to being shunned and distrusted. You can lie, you can cheat and you can swindle, but if you break your direct word - if you promise, if you swear - then you are worse than scum in the cities eyes.

For religion...hmm, maybe make it not so prevalent? For whatever reason, organised Religion is discouraged in the city (feuding in the past led to disaster? widespread nature of the populace makes it hard to keep a proper congregation for any one god going? everyone is apathetic about the whole thing?). This is going to make things a lot more dynamic between factions, since its going to be significantly harder to acquire the traditional Healbot stuff outside of your Faction (who's crafting the Cure X Wounds Potions and Wands? Certainly not the Church of Pelor; he hasn't got a temple here?).

It also makes Religion a more personal thing for Religious characters. Their faith is their business, and unless they're a Cleric or similar, they're probably going to keep it to themselves.

Geographically, I'm not an expert on where or what features certain things should be, but I'm envisioning this city as a tiered city, building up into a much larger top layer, which casts a shadow down on the layers below. I'm thinking making a theme of Class Division really prominent here could go down a treat, what with the really diverse monstrous humanoid population and the Half-Breed discrimination. So, the top layer is a physical representation of that; it overshadows all the lower layers, and only the most powerful and wealthy reside there. I'm thinking inland, dominating an important trade route, which brings the city its wealth.

So, yeah, those are my thoughts on that little questionaire. Well, preliminary thoughts at this point, at least.

Opinions and comments? What should we keep, what should we throw away?

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

Hmm. I think I'm getting something here. I'm gonna play some sort of leader of the city sector where most of the second-class citizens live. By second-class here I mean the non-PHB races. I think I might go for a revision of Click, the War Soul Thri-kreen.

Originally Posted by SamBurke

Hmm.... for the city itself, I'm thinking that it's going to have to be a pretty massive affair, to have all the races Golden was thinking about.

Perhaps it could be on multiple planes? Have a floating part, or a part underground? River people?

The rest of the more in-depth discussion was about Characters, which I'm going to leave for now.

So, the Faction idea that GuyFawkes brought up is pretty important to get down, so maybe we should make a list?

• Derjuin: Something shady that wouldn't (probably) fly in a Holy City of Pelor
• SamBurke: Nothing yet
• GuyFawkes: Leader of the Dispossessed, Second-Class (Non-PHB) Races
• Hipho and Standleyindraven: Dwarven Mining and Smithing Monopoly.
• Golden Ladybug: Nothing yet

So, looking at that, we've got two Criminal Enterprises and one that could go either way. Do we all want to go down the Crime Road, or should Sam and I stand on the side of Law?

On Sam's comment, I would absolutely love to have an Under City below the Map. Its a powerful example of the Class Distinction themes we've been tossing around, and we can have a more lawless, darker tone while still keeping the civilised and stylish Upper City.

River People would also be pretty cool. They could live on their boats all the time!

If Undead are socially acceptable, then they could do most of the work down in the Under City, which would be a very interesting motif. Perhaps there could also be gears and things down there? Powering... stuff in the Upper City

I never claimed to understand, or even really have a passing knowledge of, engineering. Gears doing things is basically all I've got

But that could forge the basis of a resentment between the Upper and Under citizens, with the Under City (which would be populated by Monstrous Races and the Poor) feeling like they've been given the short end of the stick by having to live between the unseen infrastructure of the city proper.

[GuyFawkes]

Okay, further building on the city. For my part of the Second-class citizens sector, I'm thinking it's somewhere distinctly separated from the rest of the city. Maybe that sector across the river to the southwest in the map, which I'm copying here:

MAP

Spoiler

I like the Under City idea. Kinda like Magnostadt in the manga Magi. Maybe someone would like to make a faction that operates down there?

Oh, by the way. An important question. What do we want our setting to be? High fantasy? Eberron-ish with magitek stuff? Or some other sort.

[SamBurke]

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

Okay, further building on the city. For my part of the Second-class citizens sector, I'm thinking it's somewhere distinctly separated from the rest of the city. Maybe that sector across the river to the southwest in the map, which I'm copying here:

MAP

Spoiler

Hm. I like that place... it looks very slum-like. Plus, bridges are easier to use to repress people.

For me, I'll probably go with a vigilante gang that is attempting to clear out the other large evil gangs. Mostly combat focused, with a lot of guerilla warfare.

Because who *DOESN'T* want a city that's blowing itself up and having fighting in the streets?

UNDERCITY:

I'd like some massive, massive, jet engines or something. Magical super-turbines, used during winter to heat the city. Because it would be really cool to look at. AND it would provide a lot of heat and air pressure.

I'm thinking that the way to get to the floating area of the city should be from that tower on the island, in the center, with two other towers on the side. Why? Because awesome.

As for the floating part itself, what if it was made from light, woven, mats, sort of like Technotichlan? Something light enough to be held up by Permanency'd Tenser's Disks.

Perhaps it's a resort? Some sort of safe, sunbathing area? Something that the "slumfolk" can't get to, and no one fights at.

[Golden Ladybug]

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

Oh, by the way. An important question. What do we want our setting to be? High fantasy? Eberron-ish with magitek stuff? Or some other sort.

Hmm, good question; I make no secret that my favourite published setting is Eberron (except for what they did to the Drow) but I'm not blindly devoted to it. I can see just fine thank you

Okay, I apologise for that one.

Anyway, the topic of Theme is an important thing for world-building, and I guess the thing to look at here is what we want our setting to do. From what everyone has said so far, its getting closer and closer to a grim, culturally divisive filled world filled with injustice and criminality. Those are not themes that lend themselves well to High Fantasy, which is more typically about the struggle between an Absolute Evil and an Absolute Good.

As genres go, High Fantasy isn't really suited to morally grey stories, which is what this one seems to be heading towards.

I'd lean closer to the themes of Sword & Sorcery stories, with a focus on the more gritty and mundane aspects compared to the supernatural. We can still have our wide cast of diverse creatures, but rather than focusing on the more unbelievable, fantastic origins, they exist in the same idea space as a different race.

This also has another benefit for play; it cuts down the expectation of heavy magic use. The battle for the city takes place on the streets, in the minds of the people, and is not decided by the faction that decides they're going to spend all their funds and time crafting Wands of Fireball rather than making connections around the city, wheeling and dealing with other factions to come out ahead and making their way into a position of power to make a play for the city streets.

Because really, that would be lame

I'd propose that if we're going to have aspects of Heavy Magic use in the city, it is sufficiently removed from the areas we're probably going to be spending the most time in; the worse off districts of the Upper City and the Under City.

Originally Posted by SamBurke

Hm. I like that place... it looks very slum-like. Plus, bridges are easier to use to repress people.

For me, I'll probably go with a vigilante gang that is attempting to clear out the other large evil gangs. Mostly combat focused, with a lot of guerilla warfare.

Because who *DOESN'T* want a city that's blowing itself up and having fighting in the streets?

Seems our City is going to be rife with conflict, as it stands. Well, in that case, I'd like to propose making that even more entrenched in the themes of the city.

Something has recently happened that has sparked the destructive fighting on the streets; perhaps, if our City is a protectorate or state of another nation, it has gone through massive political upheaval and power is being struggled for all over the nation. The City is placed on a key trade route and is a major power in the nation, so control of the city provides a ton of political capital. Outside influences are egging on the rivalries and tensions in the City.

Perhaps the City is independent, and runs on a Monarchy, and the King/Queen has died with no heir to take their place. A huge power struggle has developed throughout the City, every significant Noble trying to consolidate their power and make a claim for the throne. Even those who don't actually have the ability to take the throne, such as the poor or the non-human, are able to gain considerable advantage in such a tumultuous time, maybe even exercise control over their 'betters' by taking over the areas of the city that they operate in. Some groups, such as Sam's Vigilantes, are opposing these opportunistic fellows or just trying to settle old scores.

Or, perhaps the current conflict and power struggle resulted in a simple unjust ruling. The City, ruled by a council of the three wealthiest and most important Nobles, issued an edict that placed huge and unjust restrictions on the lower classes of the city. Perhaps a Curfew that restricted all Non-Human/Non-PHB Races, or a seizure of property. This sparked a fire in the already unstable environment throughout the city. Riots occured, and was met with force, and prevented before too much destruction was had. The city is engulfed in the equivalent of a Cold War, with more sides than you could count. The Under City and the less privileged citizens of the Upper City struggle against the Aristocracy and the City Watch, or against themselves. Some only wish to protect their neighberhood, some wish to settle old scores and some want to use the unrest as a springboard to greater personal power.

Or, something else. Any other ideas?

UNDERCITY:

I'd like some massive, massive, jet engines or something. Magical super-turbines, used during winter to heat the city. Because it would be really cool to look at. AND it would provide a lot of heat and air pressure.

Hmm... that could be very cool, but it feels so mundane, I suppose

Perhaps, rather than providing heating for the city, the machinery controls the City's Gates and the River's Water, raising and lowering them on command. This provides the City with a powerful defence against attackers that doesn't involve setting up a Giant, Zombie-Apocalypse-allowing Dome of Force

Also, in case of widespread fire, it can be used to flood the Upper City to put it all out. Or, just to flood the Upper City

Or maybe even its the power source for this...

I'm thinking that the way to get to the floating area of the city should be from that tower on the island, in the center, with two other towers on the side. Why? Because awesome.

As for the floating part itself, what if it was made from light, woven, mats, sort of like Technotichlan? Something light enough to be held up by Permanency'd Tenser's Disks.

Perhaps it's a resort? Some sort of safe, sunbathing area? Something that the "slumfolk" can't get to, and no one fights at.

I'm never a fan of grounding setting mechanics like "why is that castle floating" or "how come that big portal is sitting in the middle of that plane only lets the pure of heart travel" with actual game mechanics. For one, it takes away some of the mystique of it all, and somebody is probably going to go out of their way to dispel all the Floating Disks.

But perhaps we can have a narrative explanation; the gears and machinery buried in the Under City create a form of energy that, when channelled through the barely-understood mechanisms the North Tower is built around, allows anything placed above it to defy Gravity.

The Floating District, considered a wonder of the known world, is the result of experimentation with the technology whatever precursor of the modern-day City left behind. It is the home of the highest nobility, a haven for the fabulously wealthy and the seat of Government. It is self-contained, with all the amenities required for living available in the floating, marble towers. While it relies on the City below to supply the devices it relies on with power, operating the subterranean machinery, and the raw materials for food, clothing and other luxuries, it is a completely different place from the divisive and dangerous City below.

[GuyFawkes]

So, are we picking between Hipho and stanley? Or are they both in? How many players were you going for with this game, Bel?

[Golden Ladybug]

I have no objection to both of them throwing in for this; Derjuin seems to have dissapeared, and its not like we've got too many players.

Anyway, after frantically finishing my History Assignment at 4 AM yesterday, I'm going to try and catch up on Playground stuff. First off, I'm gonna write up some fluff for my "Faction" as it were. Looking at the other Factions, we have one 'benevolent' Faction (Guy's Leader of the Oppressed type thing), two 'neutral', kinda, factions (Sam's Guerilla Faction and Hipho/Stanley's Dwarf Mining Monopoly).

So we need something that's good and Malevolent.

Nestled between the Slums in the Undercity, hidden in the cracks between the great Gears and Pistons that power the curious devices littered throughout the City, are the hidden warrens that house a small gang that is responsible for the vast majority of Vice Crimes in the city. Dabbling in the production and distribution of Narcotics, the smuggling of illicit materials, protection rackets and prostitution, this gang is openly led by an Northerner, a Man of uncommon strength and cunning. He towers over most, and leads the group with an iron fist.

However, the true master of the Gang is much less obvious; a young woman, an Aberrant half-breed, who sits in the shadows, plucking at a Mandolin with black, chitinous claws. You wouldn't think it from looking at the short, ever-hungry girl, but she has plans for this city.

The conflict on the streets above and around her has given her an opportunity; if she has her way, she will rule before the dust settles.

Anyway, so I'm basically signing up to play the Mafia.

So, I wanted to put together a Character and a Faction that really embodied the darkness in a City. We've already put forward ideas about Political and Social conflict and class struggle, and I think that's great. I'm already imagining the city we're creating, and its developing a unique flavour in my mind. We were lacking one half of the Organised Crime gig, with Stanley and Hipho's dwarf Faction really embodying the "'Legitimate' Business" aspect of it. I'm, obviously, leaning towards the Vice Crime aspect.

Since one of the Taboos I suggested in the first chunk of world-building from Bel's prompt was Half-Breeds being stigmatised, I obviously wanted to play one. I kind of want to develop that to the point where a Half-Breed ruling anything would be unthinkable. Racism might not be politically correct, but its a feature of the human condition really. Humans don't really like things that are different than them

Anyway, unrelated to my faction for now, I think we really should move onto working out the particulars of the city (starting, perhaps, with a name ).

Since all of us are, in one respect or another, on the streets, maybe we should get to work on creating the upper levels of the City? Perhaps each of us can write up two to three Nobles or Government Officials who play some role in the city? Doesn't have to be particularly detailed at this point, but at least we have something to start building up connections and inter-relations.

Maybe we could even start making areas we frequent? So, perhaps since my character spends a lot of time in the Undercity, I could define a particular area of the Undercity? Maybe there's a thriving market where the Boat People and down-on-their-luck Merchants come to trade to the poor scum that inhabits the place. This market might be an unintentional result of the organised crime element setting up shop there, making it just profitable enough to sell there. Guy might start creating some of the neighbourhoods he protects, and Sam might create a Headquarters for his Guerilla Gang.

BTW, Imma fight ya tooth and nail, Sam. I ain't getting cleared out easy

We might also want to start fleshing out our Characters and Factions more in a mechanical sense; those are going to be the things we're going to be using most of all, right, and it gives it a sense of being real when the Character Sheet has been written

Any particular modes of Character Generation you guys want to use? I looked over Stanley's character sheet and he seems to have used 38 PB at level 8 (I'd personally prefer 9 or 10 for this, with a caveat of Tier 3 or below). Any opinions to the contrary?

[GuyFawkes]

I think Tier 3 is a good place to start, and possibly Tier 2 on a case by case basis.

For starting level, I am not very particular with it, since this is an RP-focused game. However, for the purpose of having to choose, I'd go with either 9 or 11, as those levels are usually where we get the next progression of the main abilities of classes.

For Character Generation, 38 PB is a good starting point. Higher or lower depends on what you want for the power level of the game. Also, I like max HP or average, cause I suck at HP rolls.

Again, posting the different players and factions they'd be playing:

• Derjuin: Something shady that wouldn't (probably) fly in a Holy City of Pelor
• SamBurke: Vigilante gang
• GuyFawkes: Leader of the Dispossessed, Second-Class (Non-PHB) Races
• Hipho and Standleyindraven: Dwarven Mining and Smithing Monopoly.
• Golden Ladybug: Teh Godfather

It'd be nice if we had someone to play the good guys. Not good per se, but the law, like the city guards, or a military leader. And maybe some of the nobility. Just so Bel doesn't play all of those parts alone. Makes for good balance among players. They could be rotten as they want, using their power for their own quest for more power, and something of the like. Also, a representative from the UnderCity would be nice.

By the way, we also have to answer the question of the city's government and whether it is a part of a nation or a city-state.

I was thinking my character was a representative of the sector in a council with different representatives coming from different sectors, with the distribution as follows: 1 military, 3 humans, 1 non-humans (me), 1 monstrous races (Under City), 1 Boat People, and maybe others that the other players envision. The mafia and the gangs, of course, do not have representatives.

Posting stuff for my faction soon.

[Derjuin]

Sorry, I am here, I've been really busy with work and side projects and haven't gotten a chance to actually type up my post. I'm also unsure how much I should share with everyone, and how much only the DM should know.

[SamBurke]

Herp. Derp. I apparently lost this. OOoops!

[Hipho]

I second both the council idea and the average or max hp idea.

As far as fleshing out the city goes I'd be more than happy fleshing out a few characters in Doldek's crew.

[stanleyindraven]

Yay the dwarves abound. i will start developing my aspects more soon.

[Hipho]

For a name I vote its something very simple. So simple it simply could NOT belong to such a complicated and diverse town. I'm talking a one or two syllable name. Dewton. Redridge. Fallseve.

[Golden Ladybug]

Welcome to the thread, guys; its been rather empty in here

I'm quite happy to go with a boring, simple name for our interesting, complex city; lets throw together a list of choices, shall we? To a City/Town Name Generator!!!

...okay, back. Do we like any of these?

• Corris
• Penarth
• Brecon
• Ardez
• Sent
• Klevan
• Ingels
• Haver
• Brakstad
• Falkeid
• Dangan
• Burren
• Vogar
• Kelda

Because those were the ones I liked after generating a couple of hundred names

GuyFawkes, on the expanded Council (which I think is really cool, btw), perhaps we can work out the details of how one gets on the council, and what responsibilities and powers that entails? I also want to suggest that the Undercity representative has little to no power or political clout; he and/or she understands that their opinion is all but irrelevant, and that they barely represent the divided, squabbling Undercity anyway (maybe they only got the job because nobody else wanted it?).

I kind of like that; the politician with no power. I might write some fluff up for him/her/it, after I type up the two random NPCs I thought of today instead of doing schoolwork

Also, what should the demographic split be? We're probably going to put Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings in the top rung of Society, since their the non-half breed PHB races, but where do we split up the monstrous races? Should we make a list of what lives where (So, would Orcs live in the Upper City Slums, but Half-Orcs are forced down into the Undercity?).

Because I totally want a group of dispossessed Yuan-Ti to live in the Undercity. My understanding, at least, of Yuan-ti is that they were created by mixing Snakes and Men? That sounds pretty "Half-Breed"y to me

EDIT: Look, some NPCs that I made to populate the city with. Because my Faction is going to be spending time in the Undercity, I made some characters who relate to that;

Spoiler

The Ex-Politico

Marcus Dannar is an important figure in the city of [Name], even though he has gone into something of a decline. Scion of a Noble Family, and one of the wealthier inhabitants of the city, Marcus possesses a long and fruitful history in the Cities Politics, and only recently retired from his place on the City Council. Since retiring, he has not been (visibly) active in the cities politics; however, he still possesses a great amount of Political Clout and is owed quite a few favours by people in high places.

His retirement has been very comfortable so far, and he spends most of his time in a luxurious compound in the Upper City, where he spends his days leisurely with his staff.

Marcus desires the finer things in life; he wears extravagantly tailored clothing of silk and satin, dines on exotic food and drink daily, he reads widely, and has a comprehensive library of mundane and eldritch knowledge. He has been known, on occasion, to indulge in hiring "Escorts" to keep himself entertained at night. Not all of the girls he hires come back.

He is, as Wealthy Nobles with a taste for Knowledge often are, incredibly dangerous.

Outwardly, he is a short man who has aged comfortably. He is obese, and his podgy fingers are covered in gem-encrusted rings. He wears a beard, neatly trimmed, and he is beginning to go bald. He examines himself in mirrors and other reflective surfaces critically, and he dislikes people who are dirty or dishevelled.

Marcus was a staunch objecter to any legislation that would improve the lives of the Monstrous Races living in the Upper City slums, or the inhabitants of the Undercity.

The Grizzled Veteran

Sergeant Karlock of the City Watch has been on the force for a long time. A Human man, who is uncharacteristically sympathetic to the plight of the denizens of the Undercity and the Slums. Even though he has no love of Half-Breeds and Monsters, he finds himself unable to muster up much scorn for the pitiable creatures forced to live in such conditions.

He, along with the small number of Watchmen under his command, is one of the few Upper City citizens (not to mention, one of the few humans) who is actively attempting to improve the quality of life in the Undercity and the Slums. To accomplish this, he first aims to eradicate the organised criminal enterprises that possess inumerable bolt holes and hideouts throughout those areas. So far, his impact has been negligible, but he is persistent and committed.

He is not naturally a very vocal man, but he is sending out ripples in the Watch-houses and on the streets. He has repeatedly requested more manpower and resources from his superiors, attempting to organise mass raids of known fronts and headquarters of the Organised Crime element. So far, he has had no luck acquiring more than the seven trainees assigned to him.

Lanky, dark-haired (starting to go grey a little around the edges) and commonly stooping, the tanned Sergeant is an old, experienced veteran of the Watch. He is an accomplished brawler, and he knows the streets with the confidence and sure-footedness of someone who has walked them for his whole life. He still wears the same battered Breastplate he was given 47 Years ago, which bears as many battle scars and dents as its owner. It also makes him look slightly out of place, when all other Watchmen have since changed to a different style of Armor.

He is very moral and ethical, and he refuses to back down. He is lacking the ring and pinkie fingers of his left hand, and he favours his right leg when walking. He is acerbic and quick-tongued, and responsible for mentoring the younger Watchmen. He's long since the standard age of retirement, but he doesn't care.

He's going to stay a member of the Watch until it kills him.

I'll get around to writing up more NPCs or general fluff tommorrow. Sleepiness has sneaked up on me with its dastardly cunning.

[stanleyindraven]

I like this name: Burren, sounds very simple and urban.

Dworm Goldhammer - Mining Boss (Miner's Guild)
Frem Blackstone - Bookkeeper (Mountain Dwarf)
Humar Flintaxe - Chief of Security (Personal Guard, Mountain Dwarf)

I would say that dwarves should comprise about 5-15% of the upper city population, that percentage being speculative because their numbers are not reported accurately to the council.
Could the dwarves be stationed around the, what looks like, a stronghold on the far east, set against the mountains on the lower left section of the city?

[SamBurke]

I'm good with pretty much any name. I do like Penarth, though.

As for the council, I was hoping we could go for some major oppression themes for all the races. Vigilante gangs are so much cooler when they get to fight the government, too.

I agree with Fawkes: we should have *some* representation for that group.

Perhaps my revolution/vigilanteeism started with the Under-City? Maybe I'm a born and raised mechanic turned revolutionary. That's cool. OOOOOOH. Do I get to have Undead in my vigilantee gang of crime-stoppers? Cause that's wicked awesome.

[stanleyindraven]

The gears and magitech sounding themes are awesome imagery, what about a semi-steam/magitech feel, where the well-offs are able to get their hands on whatever, but the general population is like scraping by on whatever they can. I think an obvious division of wealth and status between the top-dwellers would make a great background for the oppressive themes that people are expressing. That being said, even the top-dwelling poor think of those in Undercity as trashy and that they are better than their muddled blood.

Also, I wonder if the major guilds of the city should have representation, or lobbyists at least that influence the council. I think lobbyists would make for better flavor, as it is an indirect influence. Are these going to be elected officials, or people appointed by the current council, meaning they only appoint someone to replace someone else? A voting system says that the people would have more perceived control of the council, whereas appointments make it seem like the government is above reproach and don't have to listen to the people.

Is the police force of the town going to be militaristic or more of a general presence that keeps things in a tenuous check?
How many people on the council? Will it be like a Roman Senate or like a small, closed doors kinda thing?
Since we are going for a ruling council, will there be a head and will we have a municipal building rather than palace/castle? or would there bee a keep/castle as a hold over from a previous ruler that was usurped with the council recently/ages ago?

[SamBurke]

Originally Posted by stanleyindraven

The gears and magitech sounding themes are awesome imagery, what about a semi-steam/magitech feel, where the well-offs are able to get their hands on whatever, but the general population is like scraping by on whatever they can. I think an obvious division of wealth and status between the top-dwellers would make a great background for the oppressive themes that people are expressing. That being said, even the top-dwelling poor think of those in Undercity as trashy and that they are better than their muddled blood.

Also, I wonder if the major guilds of the city should have representation, or lobbyists at least that influence the council. I think lobbyists would make for better flavor, as it is an indirect influence. Are these going to be elected officials, or people appointed by the current council, meaning they only appoint someone to replace someone else? A voting system says that the people would have more perceived control of the council, whereas appointments make it seem like the government is above reproach and don't have to listen to the people.

Is the police force of the town going to be militaristic or more of a general presence that keeps things in a tenuous check?
How many people on the council? Will it be like a Roman Senate or like a small, closed doors kinda thing?
Since we are going for a ruling council, will there be a head and will we have a municipal building rather than palace/castle? or would there bee a keep/castle as a hold over from a previous ruler that was usurped with the council recently/ages ago?

+1 to the idea of Magitech Elite and Lobbyists.

The Police Force should probably alternate between incredibly brutal and very lacksadaisacal. Equal parts Mexican Police and Russian Police.

[Hipho]

Personally I like Brecon. Reminds me of BACON

As for people....

Doldek Heavyhand-Gold Dwarf-Head Smith-Blacksmith's Guild

Yurias Stonetreader-Mountain Dwarf-Bookkeeper-Doldek's Personal Employ

Delk Sandstone-Desert Dwarf-Head of Security/"Barber"(Enforcer/Hitman)-Doldek's Personal Employ

[stanleyindraven]

Ok, so you can ignore this if you want. I am brainstorming Dworm and looking at possible prestige classes. In the spoiler will be my options, and ones others might look into, like Merchant Prince. I think I may go with Earth Dreamer if possible because I want my character to have a depth of power that mystifies many and makes him seem very intimidating.

Spoiler

Merchant Prince
Runesmith
Legendary Leader
Earth Dreamer
Dragon Lord

[GuyFawkes]

I would go with Sent. Cause it's the only one with one syllable.

An update on the Council numbers: 1 military, 3 humans, 2 gnomes (because I want them to be more dominant than other PHB races except humans ), 1 elf, 1 dwarf, 1 halfling, 1 non-PHB humanoids, 1 monster races, 1 Boat-people, and others to be updated. Also, I am thinking the Council is still under a ruler of some type. Maybe a monarch still (we still haven't locked on whether the city is part of a kingdom or a city-state) or someone fom the Council chosen by them.

As to how they are chosen, I am thinking the Councilors (yeah, there's a name now) are chosen based on whatever means the people in that particular sector came up with. So that could mean each sector has its own different way of choosing a Councilor (to be decided by players). As for their responsibilities, I am thinking they mainly decide on all matters of the city and make up laws, which is then up to the approval of the King/Lead Councilor.

I like the idea of the Under City Councilor having no real power. In fact, only the PHB races actually weild most of the power in the Council. As for Lobbyist, that is a good idea. Maybe we only have a particular set number for Lobbyist groups in the Council, and who gets in is decided by the Councilors. This makes room for political maneuverings to get the slots, and sets up for unsavory transactions.

For the police force, I guess it would depend on whether the city is a city-state or a part of a kingdom. If it is a city-state, then most probably the military and the police are one and the same. If it's part of a kingdom, then there could be room for the two to be distinct organizations.

@Sam, unless it steps on some other player's toes, I think ideas for your own faction are all good. So yes, you can have Undead in your vigilante group. That's why I suggested to have your factions be ironed out first, so we don't get lots of limitations on ourselves. In this light, I would like to suggest that whatever is out there already not tied down to a player's faction or character is fair game to being altered by players to suit their needs. In case of interest from multiple parties, we could always talk it out. I believe we are all mature enough to do so.

[SamBurke]

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

@Sam, unless it steps on some other player's toes, I think ideas for your own faction are all good. So yes, you can have Undead in your vigilante group. That's why I suggested to have your factions be ironed out first, so we don't get lots of limitations on ourselves. In this light, I would like to suggest that whatever is out there already not tied down to a player's faction or character is fair game to being altered by players to suit their needs. In case of interest from multiple parties, we could always talk it out. I believe we are all mature enough to do so.

Sounds good to me. Cause "Undead don't deserve injustice!" has a nice ring to it.

[Hipho]

I vote more equal council representation for dwarves! EIGHT DWARF COUNCIL MEMBERS!

No, in all seriousness maybe two. Heck, maybe the Underdark could be the only one with a single representative.

[stanleyindraven]

I think that instead of king maybe High Councilor or Chancellor or something to that degree and I like that they be elected by the Councilors to head the Council.

As for the Undead, I think, "No unjustice for the Undead or Undead don't deserve Unjustice!" just my two cents, especially because it isn't a real word.

What guilds do we currently have established? I know of the Mining and Smithing, is there a Merchant Guild, Thieve's Guild, Adventurer's Guild. Maybe a Mage School or something of that degree. I imagine that the guilds will all have lobbyists and some sectors may even promote a guildmaster to the council for them, making it a great position for the guild in question.

I like having a standing military guard over local police force, it imposes the Government Rules All feel. And it is nice to see that a disparity in the way they run things is welcomed, makes it feel more real. I would think that some are even on the take by bosses and other special interest groups.

[GuyFawkes]

More ideas for my faction:

For the lower class citizens of the city, they would be comprised of all playable humanoid races not from the PHB. Half-breeds, undead, monstrous humanoids, and other sentient creatures are hereby relegated into the Under City.

The city sector (I would like to use the word District) for the lower class citizen would be the lower left portion of the map. Although most of the members of the aforementioned races would be found there, there are of course some portion of the population who are able to live in the more opulent Districts due to circumstances.

My character would be the Councilor for the District. As to how he got the position (or other Councilors before him), the tradition is by participating in a contest that features a comprehensive test featuring all qualities deemed necessary for a leader such as proficiency in combat, literature, history, leadership, and others. This stemmed from the difficulty of using one yardstick to pick one representative out of all the different races in the District. Any one is qualified, provided he is of the age of majority for their respective race at the date of the Test. The Test is held every 7 years or when the current Councilor is unable to fulfill his duties.

[Golden Ladybug]

Originally Posted by stanleyindraven

The gears and magitech sounding themes are awesome imagery, what about a semi-steam/magitech feel, where the well-offs are able to get their hands on whatever, but the general population is like scraping by on whatever they can. I think an obvious division of wealth and status between the top-dwellers would make a great background for the oppressive themes that people are expressing. That being said, even the top-dwelling poor think of those in Undercity as trashy and that they are better than their muddled blood.

Sounds great to me; I'm a big fan of Magitech elements, and the addition to our quickly growing class division conflicts is certainly nice. Nobles with random, magitech gizmos could add a lot of flavour here, and make the City a lot more visually and thematically distinctive. And I love all those things

Also, we can have all the street lamps be Continuous Flame spells!

And I definitely agree on the second point; even the poorest, most worthless inhabitant of the Slums considers themselves in a better position that the half-bloods and the Monsters living down in the Undercity.

And they're right.

Also, I wonder if the major guilds of the city should have representation, or lobbyists at least that influence the council. I think lobbyists would make for better flavor, as it is an indirect influence. Are these going to be elected officials, or people appointed by the current council, meaning they only appoint someone to replace someone else? A voting system says that the people would have more perceived control of the council, whereas appointments make it seem like the government is above reproach and don't have to listen to the people.

I like GuyFawke's idea pretty well for this one, with each district deciding its representative on the Council in a different way; the Human Councilors might be elected by public vote, or perhaps a rigged one, the Dwarves might elect their representative through ancestral lines, the Gnomes might have a complicated and underhanded schemey way of doing it, and the Undercity just hands it to whoever seems like they will object least.

Is the police force of the town going to be militaristic or more of a general presence that keeps things in a tenuous check?
How many people on the council? Will it be like a Roman Senate or like a small, closed doors kinda thing?
Since we are going for a ruling council, will there be a head and will we have a municipal building rather than palace/castle? or would there bee a keep/castle as a hold over from a previous ruler that was usurped with the council recently/ages ago?

Police Force-wise, I kind of want them to be a relatively "good guy" faction in the city. I'm picturing them a lot like the Ankh-Morpork city watch, circa Guards! Guards! and Men at Arms. They're well meaning, but they haven't got much pull; so, because they don't want to put themselves at risk, they're going to fold rather than fight. However, some of the older Watchmen who've had enough of how the city is going (all but Civil War amongst the social classes, rampant crime and criminality and unfair treatment of damn near everyone) are trying to mobilise and make a difference.

And the Council should definitely take place behind closed doors. Preferably in a shadowy room.

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

I would go with Sent. Cause it's the only one with one syllable.

An update on the Council numbers: 1 military, 3 humans, 2 gnomes (because I want them to be more dominant than other PHB races except humans ), 1 elf, 1 dwarf, 1 halfling, 1 non-PHB humanoids, 1 monster races, 1 Boat-people, and others to be updated. Also, I am thinking the Council is still under a ruler of some type. Maybe a monarch still (we still haven't locked on whether the city is part of a kingdom or a city-state) or someone fom the Council chosen by them.

Sounds good; I hate Gnomes with a burning passion, and I'm totally fine with them getting more than their fair share here. It means I can destroy them twice as much

Everyone okay with Half-Breeds falling in with the Monstrous Humanoids? Yeah? Yeah.



And I do like the idea of the Council being underneath a Ruler... but I don't really want him and/or her to be too powerful, or even that clued in. Maybe the Ruler of the City is completely unaware of the suffering of the City below them (they obviously have to live in the topmost spires of the Floating City). Perhaps they're young, still prepubescent even, and they have just been raised to leave everything to the Council, while they live their quiet, sheltered lives.

Oooh, maybe that's one of the points of contention; the underclass wants the King/Queen/Other to face the people and face responsibility for what's been happening to the city.

The PHB!Council, who have acquired large amounts of Political Power and acclaim (and with that, favourable trade, trafficking and business positions which has continued to increase their wealth and status), are less than accommodating in that regard. The city might rally behind the King/Queen/Other and they might be disposed. Better for everyone to just leave things the way they are.

For the police force, I guess it would depend on whether the city is a city-state or a part of a kingdom. If it is a city-state, then most probably the military and the police are one and the same. If it's part of a kingdom, then there could be room for the two to be distinct organizations.

Hmm... This is something we should get down to deciding upon soon-ish, because its a fairly major setting decision. If the city is beholden to another power, push the boundaries past a certain point and someone is going to intervene. If we're responsible for ourselves, then maybe we're in a precarious position internationally? Is the city in danger of being invaded if things get too heated?

Do we want the International Politics of the situation to be involved in this game? Maybe it would be fun to have to find a balancing point where each of us can achieve our goals without jeopardising the cities welfare abroad? Or maybe not.

Opinions?

@Sam, unless it steps on some other player's toes, I think ideas for your own faction are all good. So yes, you can have Undead in your vigilante group. That's why I suggested to have your factions be ironed out first, so we don't get lots of limitations on ourselves. In this light, I would like to suggest that whatever is out there already not tied down to a player's faction or character is fair game to being altered by players to suit their needs. In case of interest from multiple parties, we could always talk it out. I believe we are all mature enough to do so.

I'm in favour of this; we really want to be able to make our Personal Factions just that, Personal. And the image of Zombies and Skeletons wearing black tights and painting anti-government slogans on walls in the dead of night is absolutely hilarious. "Undead don't deserve Unjustice!!!" indeed

But yeah, the rest of the city should be developed to fit our needs. Because my Mafia needs some Law types to make it difficult for me, Hipho and Stanley's Dwarven Coalition need other Guilds to compete against for profit (and, of course, rival mining and smithing groups to stamp out), Sam's Le Resistance needs Criminals to beat up so that they stop repressing them and Guy's Non-PHB Humanoids needs the Nobility and Politicos to negatively impact their way of life.

And there needs to be all the other stuff that makes the city work, even if we don't care about it that much. As long as everything has at least a few lines like "A group of Accountants, overseen by a layabout, good for nothing Gnome who is barely out of his teenage years (He acquired his position by being the illegitimate son of one of the current Gnome Councillors, not by his own merits), keep an eye on Government spending. They do things by the book, and delight in making things harder for those who they feel don't appreciate them" then we should be fine. Preferably, we'd want more meaty descriptions for our interesting NPCs, of course

Originally Posted by stanleyindraven

I think that instead of king maybe High Councilor or Chancellor or something to that degree and I like that they be elected by the Councilors to head the Council.

Well, that works too, I guess. I'm not going to push the "unaware King/Queen/Other-ling" angle, but its there if we want it.

Maybe this is the only situation in which the Non-PHB Races actually have some measure of power. Their votes are worth just as much as any of the other Council Members...but the Humans and the Gnomes are thick as thieves, the Militairy is pretty much just another Human seat, and the Elves and Halflings know which way the wind is blowing. That leaves the Dwarves (who probably go with the rest of the PHB Races, but I'll leave that up to Hipho and Stanley), the Boat-People, the Undercity and GuyFawkes' Character.

8 to 4, even if all of them got on-board. So, the Humans and the Gnomes control who is in charge of the Council, unless something serious goes down.

...we either need one more, or one less, member on the council. Even numbers don't work

Maybe you can have another Dwarf Council member?

As for the Undead, I think, "No unjustice for the Undead or Undead don't deserve Unjustice!" just my two cents, especially because it isn't a real word.

What guilds do we currently have established? I know of the Mining and Smithing, is there a Merchant Guild, Thieve's Guild, Adventurer's Guild. Maybe a Mage School or something of that degree. I imagine that the guilds will all have lobbyists and some sectors may even promote a guildmaster to the council for them, making it a great position for the guild in question.

I never really liked the idea of a Thieves Guild. Always seemed so... idiotic to me. Why advertise?

But anyway, more seriously;

• Smithing and Mining Guild [Hipho and Stanley]
• Mercantile Guild
• Greengrocer's Guild
• Magewright's Guild
• Glassworker's Guild
• Seamstresses Guild
• "Seamstresses" Guild
• Adventurer's Guild (I'd like to do something funny with this one, to contrast the seriousness of the rest of the setting)
• Teacher's Guild

I don't really want to have a proper "Mage's" Guild, just because I don't really want to deal with that song and dance. I'm quite happy to build a world where the reality altering stays nice and restrained, and is limited to weird hermits who put clones of themselves on the moon. I'd prefer to just stick with Magewrights (ECS) and (Domain) Adepts for the NPC casting and such.

I kind of want the education system in the city to be sorely lacking, with the best Teachers being private tutors. This gives the whole "guild" situation the chance to flourish, because from what I understand, they existed to hand down the techniques for their trade to the next set of workers, while keeping that knowledge close to the chest. And, you know, beating up everyone who wasn't part of the Guild.

I really, really want the Adventurer's guild to be something ridiculous, like a wooden stall in a back alley with a put-upon looking Halfling and a stack of waivers. Or a fearsome looking guild hall, which has been rented out to a group of local grandmothers who use the space to do the knitting, because nobody has been taking care of the place (they're too busy ADVENTURE!!!)

I like having a standing military guard over local police force, it imposes the Government Rules All feel. And it is nice to see that a disparity in the way they run things is welcomed, makes it feel more real. I would think that some are even on the take by bosses and other special interest groups.

Hmm...well, I have a very effective Military statted up for my Real Life Pathfinder game, so I can see the appeal of things like that. Because, hey, having something that your players just run from is a great feeling.

Like I said up-post, I wouldn't mind the City Watch/Guard to be only a few steps up from the dregs of the city, but I'm certainly not averse to having a Militaristic Force that keeps the city in-line.

Originally Posted by GuyFawkes

More ideas for my faction:

For the lower class citizens of the city, they would be comprised of all playable humanoid races not from the PHB. Half-breeds, undead, monstrous humanoids, and other sentient creatures are hereby relegated into the Under City.

The city sector (I would like to use the word District) for the lower class citizen would be the lower left portion of the map. Although most of the members of the aforementioned races would be found there, there are of course some portion of the population who are able to live in the more opulent Districts due to circumstances.

My character would be the Councilor for the District. As to how he got the position (or other Councilors before him), the tradition is by participating in a contest that features a comprehensive test featuring all qualities deemed necessary for a leader such as proficiency in combat, literature, history, leadership, and others. This stemmed from the difficulty of using one yardstick to pick one representative out of all the different races in the District. Any one is qualified, provided he is of the age of majority for their respective race at the date of the Test. The Test is held every 7 years or when the current Councilor is unable to fulfill his duties.

I like it!

So, that leaves me and Sam in the Undercity, you in the south-west slums, Hipho and Stanley in the Eastern Mines/Mountain and Derjuin... somewhere. Maybe I'll break out Photoshop and colour-code the districts or something.

I might even draw a map of the Undercity, if I miraculously find some time to do it in. We'll see.

[stanleyindraven]

So right now I am working on the Miner's Guild. I have 6 layers of members under the Guild Master. I am fleshing out the major players to some degree by gender, race (subrace) and possible positions.

I like the list Gold put up
Smithing and Mining Guild [Hipho and Stanley]
Mercantile Guild
Greengrocer's Guild
Magewright's Guild
Glassworker's Guild
Seamstresses Guild
"Seamstresses" Guild
Adventurer's Guild (I'd like to do something funny with this one, to contrast the seriousness of the rest of the setting)
Teacher's Guild

And i think having some humor about the Adventurer's Guild is a nice idea.

[stanleyindraven]

I guess Bel is letting us have a field day with this because he hasnt spoken up yet. I am fleshing out my guild members of note, and I am making up lists of the things my guild provides, both services and goods.

[Hipho]

Due to an increase in real-life responsibilities I might not be able to flesh out my smithies guild as much as I'd like this week. My apologies in advance

[BelGareth]

Originally Posted by stanleyindraven

I guess Bel is letting us have a field day with this because he hasnt spoken up yet. I am fleshing out my guild members of note, and I am making up lists of the things my guild provides, both services and goods.

That is all, you guys are doing great and this is coming along better than I had hoped.