Diablo 2 - The hack and slash game. [OoC3]

[Rausdower]

I know in terms of the description of the spell, the answer to my question would be "Yes." but in character terms, do the tentacles seem fast enough to snatch me in the middle of a swift action movement?

[Ernir]

Originally Posted by Rausdower

I know in terms of the description of the spell, the answer to my question would be "Yes." but in character terms, do the tentacles seem fast enough to snatch me in the middle of a swift action movement?

Yes, they certainly seem to be.

[Diarmuid]

Just a quick confirmation, how many of my attacks hit last round? (need to know how much I healed)

[Ernir]

Originally Posted by Diarmuid

Just a quick confirmation, how many of my attacks hit last round? (need to know how much I healed)

They all did.

Two hit this round.

[Diarmuid]

Thanks.....

[peterpaulrubens]

Bah I had made a mess of my IC post. I thought I'd failed the concentrate but I didn't since my roll didn't include my +14 bonus. Gerrin gets healed after all.

[Ernir]

More nat-1s?

Grapple against Mariah: (1d20+15)[30]

[peterpaulrubens]

Just FYI guys, after this fight I'll be retiring Mariah. Her Tier-4ness is finally getting to me.

It looks to me like we have plenty of ranged artillery but we could use another front-liner, which suits me just fine. I'm a melee player at heart and Mariah was as much as a foray into casting as I need for awhile.

Besides, watching Koury optimize his caster compared to mine sorta left me feeling like the JV team.

[Koury]

Originally Posted by peterpaulrubens

Besides, watching Koury optimize his caster compared to mine sorta left me feeling like the JV team.

I certainly never meant to make anyone feel second class.

And Id say you're way more valuable then me to the party. You're heals are literally and figuratively life savers.

But either way, play what makes you happy.

[sonofzeal]

Originally Posted by peterpaulrubens

Just FYI guys, after this fight I'll be retiring Mariah. Her Tier-4ness is finally getting to me.

It looks to me like we have plenty of ranged artillery but we could use another front-liner, which suits me just fine. I'm a melee player at heart and Mariah was as much as a foray into casting as I need for awhile.

Besides, watching Koury optimize his caster compared to mine sorta left me feeling like the JV team.

What Koury said. Mariah seems like one of the most valuable members of this team so far. Play what you want, of course, but don't feel like you aren't contributing hardcore!

[Diarmuid]

I'll third the previous sentiments. We would not have survived this combat or the last without Mariah, hands down.

But as the others have said, if you're not enjoying what you're playing then it doesnt make much difference.

We'll just have to adjust our tactics accordingly.

I'll say I certainly feel like I'm underperforming compared to Gerrin, Mariah, and Corretha but having fun so far.

[Tavar]

Well, this might mean that Ernir doesn't use as many high power enemies.

But, yeah, we're going to need some new sources of healing.

[peterpaulrubens]

Originally Posted by Koury

I certainly never meant to make anyone feel second class.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply you'd done anything wrong. It was just a realization of how few times I've played casters and how generally mediocre I am with them. Mariah is exactly the third caster I've played in 3.5 D&D. I played mostly melee and some casters in 1st Edition, skipped 2e and 3.0 entirely, and came back to 3.5 twenty years later. Casting has changed A LOT since then; melee not nearly as much. And as I said, im a melee player at heart. I have ALWAYS believed in the mission statement of the Brotherhood of Busted Knuckles.

Originally Posted by sonofzeal

What Koury said. Mariah seems like one of the most valuable members of this team so far. Play what you want, of course, but don't feel like you aren't contributing hardcore!

It's not at all that I feel like I'm not contributing. Just the opposite actually; I feel like the strongest contribution that Mariah can make is always a healing spell. Several times I've thought of casting some tactical spell like Wind Wall or Obscuring Mist only to finally decide that the best ROI on my spell slot is to let the incoming arrows through and just heal it up after. That has gotten boring after 5 levels of it.

Originally Posted by Diarmuid

I'll third the previous sentiments. We would not have survived this combat or the last without Mariah, hands down.

Perhaps. But it's a zero-sum game on my player slot. Another character waxing enemies may have meant us taking less damage overall.

Originally Posted by Diarmuid

I'll say I certainly feel like I'm underperforming compared to Gerrin, Mariah, and Corretha but having fun so far.

The good news is you just became the group's primary healer!

Originally Posted by Tavar

Well, this might mean that Ernir doesn't use as many high power enemies.

I wouldn't count on it. I'd say we're going to die some. If you have some extra gold, you may want to boost your defenses a bit.

Originally Posted by Tavar

But, yeah, we're going to need some new sources of healing.

Yes.

[sonofzeal]

Originally Posted by peterpaulrubens

It's not at all that I feel like I'm not contributing. Just the opposite actually; I feel like the strongest contribution that Mariah can make is always a healing spell. Several times I've thought of casting some tactical spell like Wind Wall or Obscuring Mist only to finally decide that the best ROI on my spell slot is to let the incoming arrows through and just heal it up after. That has gotten boring after 5 levels of it.

Have you considered "Cloudy Conjuration"? It's intended for Summons and whatnot, but technically Conj {Healing} spells trigger it. This means every time you cast a healing spell, you have the option of laying down some BC/debuff at the same time. That's a nice way to get some tactical flexibility, which is where the sticking point seems to be right now...

[peterpaulrubens]

Originally Posted by sonofzeal

Have you considered "Cloudy Conjuration"? It's intended for Summons and whatnot, but technically Conj {Healing} spells trigger it. This means every time you cast a healing spell, you have the option of laying down some BC/debuff at the same time. That's a nice way to get some tactical flexibility, which is where the sticking point seems to be right now...

Thats a nice thought, but I think that trick isn't going to stay fun for long. It'd still be "what am I doing this round? Oh yeah, casting a healing spell!"

[Ernir]

Just make sure that whatever you choose, PPR, it won't turn into "I attack again", which is something you really seem to hate. And most melee is like that. =/

As for party balance in general... yes, there are some discrepancies. This is 3.5, after all.
I don't feel like there's anyone who is actually anything close to useless, though. We don't have Davian the noodle-whipping knight next to Uru the God of War right now.
But still, if some of you feel like you're underperforming, I'm eager to hear suggestions. The more consistent problems have so far been dealt with by character switchouts, which, as PPR is demonstrating, isn't a big deal if you really want to do it.

Originally Posted by Tavar

Well, this might mean that Ernir doesn't use as many high power enemies.

That would be very nice of me.

Originally Posted by Tavar

But, yeah, we're going to need some new sources of healing.

You've been keeping track of the five thousand or so healing potions I've dropped, yes?

[Tavar]

Originally Posted by Ernir

J
I don't feel like there's anyone who is actually anything close to useless, though. We don't have Davian the noodle-whipping knight next to Uru the God of War right now.

Reference to previous characters?

[sonofzeal]

If peterpaulrubens wants to drop Mariah, then I wouldn't mind being the healer.

Ernir - how do you feel about the "Evangelist" Cleric variant in DM #311? I've always wanted to play one, but it never seems to actually happen.

[peterpaulrubens]

Originally Posted by Ernir

Just make sure that whatever you choose, PPR, it won't turn into "I attack again", which is something you really seem to hate. And most melee is like that. =/

Yeah, my first instinct was to try out the Fighter Incarnate. But, I'm not sure it has enough of not-"I attack again" to be a good candidate.

Originally Posted by Ernir

You've been keeping track of the five thousand or so healing potions I've dropped, yes?

Uhhh... yeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh.... they're in a pile in town! Promise.

Originally Posted by Tavar

Reference to previous characters?

Yes. At one point I think Uru was responsible for half of the total damage dealt by the party.

Originally Posted by sonofzeal

If peterpaulrubens wants to drop Mariah, then I wouldn't mind being the healer.

Ernir - how do you feel about the "Evangelist" Cleric variant in DM #311? I've always wanted to play one, but it never seems to actually happen.

Ooof. I hadn't meant to impact the party enough to make someone else change characters. I hope that you're looking to change in favor of playing an Evangelist and not because you think we're not going to do well without a strong healing presence.

[Ernir]

Oh, New Players. Changing characters means the death penalty!

(A.k.a. a slight XP loss.)

Originally Posted by Tavar

Reference to previous characters?

Yup.

Jarian played Uru (fixed and well-optimized monk), Tyrael played Davian (fixed, but not at all optimized Paladin). The effectiveness difference was kind of absurd for a while.

You were actually there at the time.

Originally Posted by sonofzeal

If peterpaulrubens wants to drop Mariah, then I wouldn't mind being the healer.

Ernir - how do you feel about the "Evangelist" Cleric variant in DM #311? I've always wanted to play one, but it never seems to actually happen.

Conventional Forum Wisdom says dedicated healers aren't required. But you do what you want.
This isn't a bad game to try out "that build you always wanted to try out", anyway.

But I don't have DM#311, and the Crystal Keep entry doesn't seem to say the whole story. What is an Evangelist and what does it do?

[Tavar]

Actually, if anyone changes, I think it might be me. The class works pretty well, but, well, it is kinda getting samey. Either give Melee +x to attack and damage for one round, buff defense for one round, or once the enemies get low enough start hitting them directly, either with Entropy or Combustion. Summon stuff when he hit the bosses.

Oh, yeah, I remember that now, vaguely. Was I playing the slightly fixed Dragon Shaman at the time?

[sonofzeal]

Originally Posted by Ernir

Oh, New Players. Changing characters means the death penalty!

(A.k.a. a slight XP loss.)

Noted. And I'm still enjoying Ryuu. But if he kicks the bucket, I think a healer sort will be valuable. Your fights tend to be long, with lots of damage being thrown out, so I suspect a healer is much more important in this campaign than in most.

Conventional Forum Wisdom says dedicated healers aren't required. But you do what you want.
This isn't a bad game to try out "that build you always wanted to try out", anyway.

But I don't have DM#311, and the Crystal Keep entry doesn't seem to say the whole story. What is an Evangelist and what does it do?

Repost from an earlier thread:

"It's a spontaneous Cleric variant that works much like a Sorcerer (delayed progression and all), except you get more and more domains as you level and every domain's spells get added to your Spells Known. This means that Evangelists get a quite substantial array of spell options for spontaneous casting... and that choice of deity makes a huge difference from Evangelist to Evangelist.

This effectively makes Evangelist a "speciality caster", with the specialty defined by what God you choose."


It's definitely down in power over Cleric, because of the delayed progression, inability to adjust your list, and loss of Turning. It also loses heavy armor proficiency, IIRC. If you want to throw it a bone, especially since I'd likely be going with a sub-optimal curative/healing focus, that might be appreciated. I certainly can't imagine being able to get the healing number Mariah seems to get!

[Ernir]

ROFL. Anyone here who's actually happy with their character?

And yes, that was Forsaken. Things have changed less than I thought they had.

Also, I failed to realize that the game's two year birthday recently passed. :O

[Tavar]

Originally Posted by Ernir

ROFL. Anyone here who's actually happy with their character?

I'm reasonably happy with him. Just, you know, might want to change. I've had the same character for, what is it, over a year now? Yeah, brought him out March 18th, 2011. That's a pretty good run for a character in this game.

Originally Posted by Ernir

Also, I failed to realize that the game's two year birthday recently passed. :O

Wow, that's pretty impressive.


Does it say anything about me that the game I've been in longest, ever, is pretty much a hack and slash?

[Ernir]

Roll against Sern: (1d20+15)[21]

Originally Posted by sonofzeal

Repost from an earlier thread:

"It's a spontaneous Cleric variant that works much like a Sorcerer (delayed progression and all), except you get more and more domains as you level and every domain's spells get added to your Spells Known. This means that Evangelists get a quite substantial array of spell options for spontaneous casting... and that choice of deity makes a huge difference from Evangelist to Evangelist.

This effectively makes Evangelist a "speciality caster", with the specialty defined by what God you choose."


It's definitely down in power over Cleric, because of the delayed progression, inability to adjust your list, and loss of Turning. It also loses heavy armor proficiency, IIRC. If you want to throw it a bone, especially since I'd likely be going with a sub-optimal curative/healing focus, that might be appreciated. I certainly can't imagine being able to get the healing number Mariah seems to get!

I assume that's a number of spells per day equal to the Sorcerer's number, and a number of spells known equal to the Sorcerer's number, plus Domain spells?

Fair enough.

Don't see it as being in dire need of a bone, though. Should still comfortably stomp all over the Favored Soul, and it's going to be less helpless in the not-cure-spells department pretty much no matter how you spin it.
And the almighty Heal is just around the corner, making other forms of HP repair kind of redundant anyway.

Originally Posted by Tavar

Does it say anything about me that the game I've been in longest, ever, is pretty much a hack and slash?

Don't worry, we won't tell your Serious Roleplaying buddies.

[Tavar]

Originally Posted by Ernir

And the almighty Heal is just around the corner, making other forms of HP repair kind of redundant anyway.

Heal doesn't make other forms of healing redundant. It simply makes healing worthwhile. I mean, consider that the Re-tooled healer adds a buttload of extras on to the healing, and it was barely able to keep up at times. If we had had a cleric, it wouldn't have been able to keep up.

[peterpaulrubens]

Originally Posted by Ernir

Don't see it as being in dire need of a bone, though. Should still comfortably stomp all over the Favored Soul, and it's going to be less helpless in the not-cure-spells department pretty much no matter how you spin it.
And the almighty Heal is just around the corner, making other forms of HP repair kind of redundant.

..

Originally Posted by Tavar

Heal doesn't make other forms of healing redundant. It simply makes healing worthwhile. I mean, consider that the Re-tooled healer adds a buttload of extras on to the healing, and it was barely able to keep up at times. If we had had a cleric, it wouldn't have been able to keep up.

I've taken Ernir's advice of having more things to do than "I attack again" as I've pondered what character to make. The idea of playing some kind of bard has caught my eye. A bard with Healing Hymn would make the healing spells of not-specialized healers fairly good; it may be a nice option for us to consider.

Ernir, I looked at the Dirgesinger PrC and while it seems flavorfully awesome, it's kind of craptacular in execution. Any chance that class could be spruced up a bit? I'm specifically thinking of some kind of casting progression and beefing up the capstone ability.

[sonofzeal]

Originally Posted by Ernir

I assume that's a number of spells per day equal to the Sorcerer's number, and a number of spells known equal to the Sorcerer's number, plus Domain spells?

Fair enough.

Don't see it as being in dire need of a bone, though. Should still comfortably stomp all over the Favored Soul, and it's going to be less helpless in the not-cure-spells department pretty much no matter how you spin it.
And the almighty Heal is just around the corner, making other forms of HP repair kind of redundant anyway.

I don't know about stomping all over Favoured Soul, except fluffwise - the Evangelist is exactly what the Favoured Soul should have been in the first place! But FvS actually get more Spells Known than Sorcerers, and while Evangelists technically get more, the limitation by Domain is pretty significant. FvS also have better saves, proficiencies, and actual class features (even if not very many). That might not mean much stacked up against ClericZilla, but since both FvS and Evangelist lack Turning, neither is likely to go full Zilla mode. I'd put them roughly on par through mid levels, with the Evangelist only pulling ahead past lvl 15 or if you're using Pantheon rules. And it's really only boosting those healing numbers that I was concerned about; there's a few basic methods, but nothing that'd let me keep up with the damage this campaign pours on.

Looking at Evangelist again though, they only seem to get one extra domain by lvl 9. I'll stick with Ryuu (he's fun), and hopefully he'll last at least until we hit lvl 10.

[Diarmuid]

Waiting to see if Corretha provoked from D9 moving frmo T13 to R9 and if so what the result is/was.

[peterpaulrubens]

Koury isn't R9 thru the wall? If you can get to Q11, R12 or S13 I have line of sight to you while Gerrin's Passwall is open and I can drop a Close Wounds on you.