General Exalted Discussion Thread X: Playground Cosmic Principle

[golentan]

Also, unless they're really stupid and unperceptive, it's going to take about 5 seconds for them to recognize their powers don't look or work like the other cool kid's stuff.

Isn't everyone supposed to flare their animas at the thing? So, we have all of these animas going and only one is sun colored. Hmmm....

Plus, GSPs have made their deal with the devil beforehand. They've given their consent to the lords of hell, and have rendered themselves psychologically more pliable by acknowledging their failure and asking for the deal. When their escort shows up, they go "Yeah, this arrangement has worked out pretty well for me so far, and I did say I would. Okay."

A demon shows up and tries to say "You sold your soul to us, you are obligated to obey the lords of hell," even if they do convince the solar I'd expect to hear the solar reply "I never agreed to that. I don't want to be evil, and you forced this on me against my will? I hate you demon dad! Hold still so I can stab you until I feel better!"

[Arrghus]

As a rule of thumb, attempting to deceive or control a Celestial Exalt is a terrible idea. Solars can gain abilities that render any attempt at deception completely impossible, not to mention the fact that, given a bit of information regarding the nature of the GSPs (as one is likely to get hanging around the Thing), some introspection and perhaps a decent Lore check, that tapestry of lies is going to fall apart like a house of cards.

Of course, keeping a GSP in Hell and trying to control it is equally terrible, so I guess they might still try it.

[golentan]

Question for you guys. If you were to convert Affinity (Element) Control into a Terrestrial charm, what changes would you make and what ability would you put it under?

Here's what I'm thinking for it.

Affinity Element Control
Cost: 2m/action; Mins: Essence 3, Lore 4; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Elemental, Obvious, Stackable, Cooperative
Duration: up to (essence) actions
Prerequisites: Elemental Bolt Attack

Seizing control over the essence flows of their native element, the Dragon Blood is able to manipulate it in her immediate area. Each activation of this charm controls up to (Lore) barrels of the element. Every action, the terrestrial can reflexively allocate each barrel to one of a number of effects.
• Elemental Damage—Every barrel adds 1 to the damage of the terrestrial's attacks.
• Elemental Material—The Terrestrial may manipulate her element as though it were a much more useful material. The Terrestrial's Craft score for this is limited to its Lore, but she requires no tools, and what would take scenes takes only actions. If the material is solid, then it remains after the Charm expires. Despite its great speed, this use of the charm is limited to simple geometric shapes.
• Elemental Resistance—Every barrel adds 1 to the character’s bashing, lethal and aggravated soak values, or triple that amount against damage from the same element. This soak counts as armor.
• Elemental Weapon—Every Barrel reduces the cost of using an appropriately aspected elemental bolt by 1m, to a minimum of 1m.

The anima banner of another terrestrial of the same element counts as a number of barrels equal to the other character's essence, but the terrestrial using this charm cannot use her own anima for this purpose. Multiple terrestrials can cooperate to great effect, using the greatest Lore and Essence scores from among all participants and using any element available to a collaborating character.

Too versatile? Too cheap? Too many options stripped out? Too expensive? About right?

[Draken]

The elemental material option is strictly superior to anything avaiable in the actual Craft tree for terrestrials, I believe.

[Turalisj]

Originally Posted by Draken

The elemental material option is strictly superior to anything avaiable in the actual Craft tree for terrestrials, I believe.

Make that anything anyone else has, period, given that scenes is very loose terms. Dramatic scenes are generally what it takes to craft something.

[golentan]

And I see that I forgot to include my planned alteration limiting it to simple geometric shapes.

[Jade Dragon]

Can Enlightened Mortals still exalt? Or does it have to be ordinary, everyday mortals? Also, are there any animas for them, or is all their Essence personal?

I'm considering making a character enlightened before exaltation, due to being exposed to the fluctuating energies of Creation's Dragon Lines during Calibration as a baby. Oh, and I also need to know if that's a plausible way to awaken the Essence flow of a mortal.

[Draken]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Can Enlightened Mortals still exalt? Or does it have to be ordinary, everyday mortals? Also, are there any animas for them, or is all their Essence personal?

I'm considering making a character enlightened before exaltation, due to being exposed to the fluctuating energies of Creation's Dragon Lines during Calibration as a baby. Oh, and I also need to know if that's a plausible way to awaken the Essence flow of a mortal.

Enlightened Essence is, in fact, a mutation and desmesnes do induce mutations.

As I recall, yes, enlightened mortals can exalt. See the Djala, who are all enlightened by default.

All the essence of an EM is personal. Only exalts (and anyone with that one negative mutation in MoEP: Infernals) have peripheral essence pools.

[Arrghus]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Can Enlightened Mortals still exalt? Or does it have to be ordinary, everyday mortals? Also, are there any animas for them, or is all their Essence personal?

I'm considering making a character enlightened before exaltation, due to being exposed to the fluctuating energies of Creation's Dragon Lines during Calibration as a baby. Oh, and I also need to know if that's a plausible way to awaken the Essence flow of a mortal.

Yest to both. Enlightened mortals are less likely, but far from impossible, and freak enlightenments is definitely probably something that is maybe possible.

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Can Enlightened Mortals still exalt?

Yes. It's just a little less common.

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Also, are there any animas for them, or is all their Essence personal?

It's all personal, barring that specific aforementioned mutation, or that one Flaw from Scroll of Heroes.

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

Oh, and I also need to know if that's a plausible way to awaken the Essence flow of a mortal.

Sure, why not? It is Calibration.

[Incendius]

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

Yes. It's just a little less common.

Actually, that is slightly inaccurate. Only beings that are enlightened through birth have a lower chance of exalting. So Djala are less likely, but the mortal hero who cultivated his essence over decades to achieve the pinnacle of human enlightenment has just as good (probably better) a chance of exalting as anyone.

[Jade Dragon]

Alright, I thought I had seen the mutation in Infernals, and I was right. So... I might get some Dragon Style Charms, but more likely, I'd use it to have gotten some artifacts pre-exaltation. The Immaculate Martial Arts will also let me use some of my more overt powers to appear as a dragon, so basically I'll generally use lots of personal Essence going to Excellencies and Dragon Styles.

Oh, and I also have to know. Is there any difference between the Dragon Styles in the ST's Companion and the DB book? Because I only have the ST's Companion right now. Flavor can be gotten from the wiki.

Edit: Swaying Grass Dance Style looks nice...

[Kobold-Bard]

Were Ayssal to Solar redemption mechanics ever printed, or is it a purely fluff thing?

[vegetalss4]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

Were Ayssal to Solar redemption mechanics ever printed, or is it a purely fluff thing?

There is a short bit of information in the Scroll of Errata, through that merely explain the result (curse free solars) and sketches out the process a little bit.
The actual redemption is still the province of plot.

EDIT: since the scroll is free and I have nothing better to do I decided to copy the relevant section below for your convenience.

Spoiler

Abyssal Redemption
The guidelines and rules for Abyssal redemption are as follows:
Trapped inside the tainted Essence of every deathknight is a dim spark of Solar glory, a fragile hope that gutters like a windblown candle with the faint promise of redemption. The epiphany that damnation isn’t inevitable eventually occurs to almost every Abyssal despite the best efforts of the Neverborn, triggered by a conflict between an Intimacy (or former Intimacy) and the murderous urgings of Dark Fate. Canonically, no Abyssal has ever followed through on this hope to earn redemption, making any player-controlled deathknight to rejoin the light the first of her kind. While the specific requirements of redemption are left to Storytellers to decide based on the needs and scope of each series, the basic guidelines and the
results are explained below:
• Redemption should represent the culmination of a great and lengthy quest rather than a reward for singular acts of heroism. A bare minimum of one story devoted to the task per dot of Essence is highly recommended, reflecting the fact that it is harder to turn back from the darkness the farther you explore
its power. Abyssals can also choose to permanently lower their Whispers rating by one dot at the end of each story devoted to redemption (returning 3 experience points if Storytellers give compensatory experience for lost Backgrounds).
• Redemption is a personal quest and does not require any external assistance or permission, nor may it be accomplished by another entity on the Abyssal’s behalf—not even the Unconquered Sun or Autochthon. The inherent power to seek redemption is the legacy of every Solar Exaltation, drawing on the metaphysical inviolability of Ignis Divine. Because redemption is so personal, one deathknight’s path to the light may not work for others, depending on personality and background.
• Redemption requires profound understanding of Solar Exaltation and the ideals of the four Virtues. Wise mentors can provide this knowledge, though humble mortals often have as much to teach as cosmic powers like Primordials or the Unconquered Sun. Arduous ordeals of trial and error also provide a viable path to enlightenment in the absence of direct instruction. The Charm Unconquered Hero’s Faith (Manual of Exalted Power—The Abyssals, p. 140) offers tantalizing hope and gives a reliable firsthand opportunity to study Solar Essence, but characters aren’t required to learn it to achieve redemption
and should be mindful that rapid Resonance accumulation tends to do horrible things to bystanders.
• Redemption always involves building relationships with the living, helping others, affirming life and directly opposing the forces of Oblivion. Such actions accumulate significant Resonance, punishing the character with regular Dark Fate manifestations and concomitant tragedy.
• Redemption always involves some form of meaningful sacrifice, often the hero’s own life (especially if the final act of heroism involves destroying a greater threat, like one’s Liege). An Abyssal who dies as a Solar passes on to Lethe or lingers as a ghost as desired, while her cleansed Essence incarnates in a new Solar.
• Redemption is absolute. Once a Solar Essence slips from the grasp of the Neverborn, the only way to steal that Essence back to the side of Oblivion is to wait until it incarnates again in a new host (or to assist that reincarnation process along).
• If an Abyssal attains redemption, her anima flares iconic as her Caste shifts to a Solar analogue, mirroring the process and rules of corruption (see Manual of Exalted Power—The Abyssals, p. 117). Known Void Circle spells remain only as inaccessible occult theory. The Lawgiver probably loses all Whispers, but may retain her rating as a psychic “scar” of her former state if that suits the character better. If the new Solar had a monstrance, it shatters violently with her redemption in an explosion of Holy golden flames that inflict 10A levels of damage to creatures of darkness within five yards as a one-time Trauma 10L environmental hazard. Especially generous Storytellers may allow Solars to reclaim experience points spent on Void spells and Combos lost in the conversion, though this is hardly required. After all, the character should seek redemption because she believes it is the right thing to do no matter the price.
• A redeemed Solar lacks the Great Curse, and may not be subjected to it again by any means in this or any future incarnation. Similarly, children of Dragon-Blooded freed of the Curse retain this immunity and pass it on to all their descendents. All Exalted who have been cured of the Great Curse still
possess a Limit track, but no longer gain Limit by any means other than having it inflicted upon them directly by magical effects, such as the Abyssal Charm Sanity-Eroding Diatribe, or the Solar Charm Bloodthirsty Sword-Dancer Spirit. Resisting unnatural mental influence is not such an effect and does not
grant Limit any longer. Their Virtue Flaw disappears. When the character’s Limit hits 10, she loses one dot of permanent Willpower (minimum Willpower 1) instead of entering Limit Break madness. Lost dots naturally return at the rate of one per month since experiencing Limit Break The original Exalted Limit track was originally designed by the gods and Autochthon to act as an ablative defense against madness-inducing Primordial magic. Unfortunately, Limit created an unintended backdoor vulnerability that the dying Primordials exploited and corrupted with their Great Curse, bypassing anti-Shaping defenses through this hidden imperfection. It is scant comfort that only the death curses of the Primordials could exploit this crack and that they cannot do so again. Alchemical Exalted, who were never subject to the Great Curse, also possess such a Limit track, though they are unaware of this as there are no beings in Autochthonia with Limit-inducing magic, and Alchemical Charms cannot give their own user Limit. Abyssals form the singular exception to this rule—their Limit track has been twisted into the apparatus by which the Neverborn inflict Resonance on them, and any effect which would give an Abyssal Limit instead grants equivalent Resonance.
• Any Charms which rely on the character possessing the Great Curse to function (such as Stubborn Boar Defense) are converted into experience, but are considered known for the purpose of meeting Charm prerequisites. Charms that merely add Limit function as stated above.

[Gensh]

So one of the problems I've had with running games is actually with Motivation. Half of them are impossibly big, like "being the best X in Creation," while others are small, like "rescue my children." Now, there only being a 2xp bonus for completing a Motivation makes it not matter so much for when only one character ever completes a Motivation, but I actually like the idea and would like to see players actively pursuing Motivations and getting involved in the game instead of just filling another field on their character sheet. My proposal is the following system:

• Each character has a grand Motivation. This, by definition, is something big and Creation-spanning. It doesn't have to be something to make the Exalt big and important, like replacing Sol. For a more humble character, it could be something like establishing a higher standard of living.
• Each character has 15 dots worth of Objectives. An Objective is like a Motivation, but smaller. The player decides on certain tangible things they want their character to do and describes them to the ST, who in turn assigns a dot value to them. These would range from the 1-dot "free my village from bandits" to the 5-dot "defeat the Mask of Winters." STs are advised to keep players from picking more than a single 5-dot Objective, as these represent truly epic deeds.
• Objectives may be changed at any time. Perhaps defeating the Mask of Winters (5-dot) is too difficult. Instead the character decides to support the rebellion in Thorns (3-dot) and find more allies first (2-dot).
• Objectives grant Background dots upon completion. This is a complement to earning Backgrounds in play and ideally prevents players from purchasing them with xp. So you've defeated the Mask of Winters (5-dot): perhaps you take his deathly armor (Artifact 5); perhaps you convinced him that even he is not beyond redemption and that he might aid you in your quest (Mentor 5).
• Completing a Motivation is Plot-worthy. Did you spend several Objective rewards on Artifacts? Perhaps you combine them into a great warship valued at Artifact N/A. Have you gathered a reputation of being Oblivion's greatest champion? Perhaps the Neverborn make you an Exalted Deathlord, giving you Liege N/A - unlimited resources so long as you use them to spread shadowlands across Creation.

Opinions?

[vegetalss4]

I feel that keying goals and backgrounds that completely together produces silly results, If my Abyssal conquers Thorn and kills the Mask of Winters, I would expect to gain both his armor, his weapons and Thorns (with all that implies).
Likewise should I manage to kill Mask of Winters only to be driven away by his deathknights before I could claim the spoils I would expect to get no material reward out of the deed (except Mask's death)
Furthermore I systematization of goals to such a degree is something I personally dislike in and of itself as I find it a bit stifling, even when they can be changed at whim, but that is just a matter of personal taste.

[Lix Lorn]

I agree with the dislike of linking them to backgrounds, but other than that I like it.

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by vegetalss4

There is a short bit of information in the Scroll of Errata, through that merely explain the result (curse free solars) and sketches out the process a little bit.
The actual redemption is still the province of plot.

EDIT: since the scroll is free and I have nothing better to do I decided to copy the relevant section below for your convenience.

Spoiler

Abyssal Redemption
The guidelines and rules for Abyssal redemption are as follows:
Trapped inside the tainted Essence of every deathknight is a dim spark of Solar glory, a fragile hope that gutters like a windblown candle with the faint promise of redemption. The epiphany that damnation isn’t inevitable eventually occurs to almost every Abyssal despite the best efforts of the Neverborn, triggered by a conflict between an Intimacy (or former Intimacy) and the murderous urgings of Dark Fate. Canonically, no Abyssal has ever followed through on this hope to earn redemption, making any player-controlled deathknight to rejoin the light the first of her kind. While the specific requirements of redemption are left to Storytellers to decide based on the needs and scope of each series, the basic guidelines and the
results are explained below:
• Redemption should represent the culmination of a great and lengthy quest rather than a reward for singular acts of heroism. A bare minimum of one story devoted to the task per dot of Essence is highly recommended, reflecting the fact that it is harder to turn back from the darkness the farther you explore
its power. Abyssals can also choose to permanently lower their Whispers rating by one dot at the end of each story devoted to redemption (returning 3 experience points if Storytellers give compensatory experience for lost Backgrounds).
• Redemption is a personal quest and does not require any external assistance or permission, nor may it be accomplished by another entity on the Abyssal’s behalf—not even the Unconquered Sun or Autochthon. The inherent power to seek redemption is the legacy of every Solar Exaltation, drawing on the metaphysical inviolability of Ignis Divine. Because redemption is so personal, one deathknight’s path to the light may not work for others, depending on personality and background.
• Redemption requires profound understanding of Solar Exaltation and the ideals of the four Virtues. Wise mentors can provide this knowledge, though humble mortals often have as much to teach as cosmic powers like Primordials or the Unconquered Sun. Arduous ordeals of trial and error also provide a viable path to enlightenment in the absence of direct instruction. The Charm Unconquered Hero’s Faith (Manual of Exalted Power—The Abyssals, p. 140) offers tantalizing hope and gives a reliable firsthand opportunity to study Solar Essence, but characters aren’t required to learn it to achieve redemption
and should be mindful that rapid Resonance accumulation tends to do horrible things to bystanders.
• Redemption always involves building relationships with the living, helping others, affirming life and directly opposing the forces of Oblivion. Such actions accumulate significant Resonance, punishing the character with regular Dark Fate manifestations and concomitant tragedy.
• Redemption always involves some form of meaningful sacrifice, often the hero’s own life (especially if the final act of heroism involves destroying a greater threat, like one’s Liege). An Abyssal who dies as a Solar passes on to Lethe or lingers as a ghost as desired, while her cleansed Essence incarnates in a new Solar.
• Redemption is absolute. Once a Solar Essence slips from the grasp of the Neverborn, the only way to steal that Essence back to the side of Oblivion is to wait until it incarnates again in a new host (or to assist that reincarnation process along).
• If an Abyssal attains redemption, her anima flares iconic as her Caste shifts to a Solar analogue, mirroring the process and rules of corruption (see Manual of Exalted Power—The Abyssals, p. 117). Known Void Circle spells remain only as inaccessible occult theory. The Lawgiver probably loses all Whispers, but may retain her rating as a psychic “scar” of her former state if that suits the character better. If the new Solar had a monstrance, it shatters violently with her redemption in an explosion of Holy golden flames that inflict 10A levels of damage to creatures of darkness within five yards as a one-time Trauma 10L environmental hazard. Especially generous Storytellers may allow Solars to reclaim experience points spent on Void spells and Combos lost in the conversion, though this is hardly required. After all, the character should seek redemption because she believes it is the right thing to do no matter the price.
• A redeemed Solar lacks the Great Curse, and may not be subjected to it again by any means in this or any future incarnation. Similarly, children of Dragon-Blooded freed of the Curse retain this immunity and pass it on to all their descendents. All Exalted who have been cured of the Great Curse still
possess a Limit track, but no longer gain Limit by any means other than having it inflicted upon them directly by magical effects, such as the Abyssal Charm Sanity-Eroding Diatribe, or the Solar Charm Bloodthirsty Sword-Dancer Spirit. Resisting unnatural mental influence is not such an effect and does not
grant Limit any longer. Their Virtue Flaw disappears. When the character’s Limit hits 10, she loses one dot of permanent Willpower (minimum Willpower 1) instead of entering Limit Break madness. Lost dots naturally return at the rate of one per month since experiencing Limit Break The original Exalted Limit track was originally designed by the gods and Autochthon to act as an ablative defense against madness-inducing Primordial magic. Unfortunately, Limit created an unintended backdoor vulnerability that the dying Primordials exploited and corrupted with their Great Curse, bypassing anti-Shaping defenses through this hidden imperfection. It is scant comfort that only the death curses of the Primordials could exploit this crack and that they cannot do so again. Alchemical Exalted, who were never subject to the Great Curse, also possess such a Limit track, though they are unaware of this as there are no beings in Autochthonia with Limit-inducing magic, and Alchemical Charms cannot give their own user Limit. Abyssals form the singular exception to this rule—their Limit track has been twisted into the apparatus by which the Neverborn inflict Resonance on them, and any effect which would give an Abyssal Limit instead grants equivalent Resonance.
• Any Charms which rely on the character possessing the Great Curse to function (such as Stubborn Boar Defense) are converted into experience, but are considered known for the purpose of meeting Charm prerequisites. Charms that merely add Limit function as stated above.

Sweet, thanks.

[Gensh]

Originally Posted by vegetalss4

I feel that keying goals and backgrounds that completely together produces silly results, If my Abyssal conquers Thorn and kills the Mask of Winters, I would expect to gain both his armor, his weapons and Thorns (with all that implies).
Likewise should I manage to kill Mask of Winters only to be driven away by his deathknights before I could claim the spoils I would expect to get no material reward out of the deed (except Mask's death)
Furthermore I systematization of goals to such a degree is something I personally dislike in and of itself as I find it a bit stifling, even when they can be changed at whim, but that is just a matter of personal taste.

Generally speaking, the reason for tying Objectives to Backgrounds was the guarantee of reward. Using your own example, say you got chased away from Winters' lair by his deathknights. You will at the very least come away from that encounter with five dots of something, whether you snatched up his daiklave as you scampered away or you decide to escape by airship. Likewise if you take Thorns but then get chased out later or something, you're still coming away with a five dot something or other. It's not specifically about getting phat loot but rather creating an iconic panoply, whether it's a named weapon or an army of loyal mortals. Of course, generally speaking, my reason for establishing such a system in the first place is because I run wide-open sandbox but frequently end up with a bunch of players who just kind of sit and stare, used to either video games or an ironclad plot. Providing clear objectives from the get-go eases the transition. Also Motivation is kind of vague and mostly unused anyway.

[Qaera]

Noticing a trend between this thread and LGBTAitP, I was wondering, are queers more likely to play Exalted, than say, DnD?

~ ♅

[Lochar]

Originally Posted by Qaera

Noticing a trend between this thread and LGBTAitP, I was wondering, are queers more likely to play Exalted, than say, DnD?

~ ♅

Excuse me?

Politely, frack off.

[Guancyto]

*cough* Qaera is LGBTGQBBQitP zirself. (BBQ is a real orientation and **** anyone who says otherwise)

But no, I don't think there's a significant correlation.

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by Qaera

Noticing a trend between this thread and LGBTAitP, I was wondering, are queers more likely to play Exalted, than say, DnD?

~ ♅

Yeah, Queers are more likely to have tastes this good.
This is a joke.

[Qwertystop]

Originally Posted by Qaera

Noticing a trend between this thread and LGBTAitP, I was wondering, are queers more likely to play Exalted, than say, DnD?

~ ♅

While it may be meant as a joke, it still stinks of stupid-bigot insults. Possibly you should have marked it as such.

[Qaera]

Lix's response was a joke; I was asking the question seriously. But I'm queer so, I'm a little confused?

~ ♅

[Weimann]

It is a bit silly that people are getting riled up. Queer is not an insult, people, and he's not calling you it either.

That said, I am pretty confused about the question. It comes right out of nowhere, and I'm pretty sure there's no reliable way to answer it. Certainly not through the minuscule amount of data you'd be able to gather through asking like this.

[Weimann]

It is a bit silly that people are getting riled up. Queer is not an insult, people, and he's not calling you it either.

That said, I am pretty confused about the question. It comes right out of nowhere, and I'm pretty sure there's no reliable way to answer it. Certainly not through the minuscule amount of data you'd be able to gather through asking like this.

[Qwertystop]

Originally Posted by Weimann

It is a bit silly that people are getting riled up. Queer is not an insult, people, and he's not calling you it either.

That said, I am pretty confused about the question. It comes right out of nowhere, and I'm pretty sure there's no reliable way to answer it. Certainly not through the minuscule amount of data you'd be able to gather through asking like this.

While it's not an insult, some homophobes believe it to be. My point is that it certainly sounds like it's intended to be an insult, if a bad one.

[Urpriest]

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

While it's not an insult, some homophobes believe it to be. My point is that it certainly sounds like it's intended to be an insult, if a bad one.

The issue is queer is both an insult in some circles and the only politically correct option (for a hardcore fan of Judith Butler anything else would likely involve reifying gender binaries or something) in others. So there's really no way around it.

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Qaera

Noticing a trend between this thread and LGBTAitP, I was wondering, are queers more likely to play Exalted, than say, DnD?

~ ♅

I had noticed the same. I think part of it may be that exalted is more willing to discuss realistic and varied sexualities than most other RPGs.