Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[Marillion]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Serpentine]

Logic: Just that if someone wants to have lots of sex with lots of different people, or no sex with no people, or a little bit of sex with very few people, that's their choice and no one else's, and no one else gets to decide how much they should or should not be having, and I'm unlikely to have much respect for anyone who thinks they do.
...outside of the context of a relationship, where there are specific understandings between its members, of course.

[arguskos]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

Twice, each time has been unique and entirely worth experiencing, if only to show me how NOT to do things.

Once was in the past and it burned me so bad I went through a phase of hating women. Note that I was rudely awakened from that phase and have worked VERY hard to put those attitudes and thoughts behind me. What one woman does is not what every woman does, I know that now (and honestly, knew it then too, but in the throes of pain it can be hard to see the truth of one's actions). If you want to bash me for being a misogynist bastard, please know that I actively fight against such things now and recognize that I was in the wrong then. Also, please do so in PMs, not here.

The second time was very recently and was not entirely reciprocated. The takeaway here is that sometimes love can exist without physical intimacy and that such a love is as fulfilling as more physical relationships. This was the moment where I decided that "love" is just not a suitable word for my tastes. I've since turned to Greek, with agape, eros, philia, and storges. If you know your Greek loves, then when I say that this love is philia you'll understand. I don't keep up with her that much right now, but that's to mollify her fiancee more than anything, who doesn't really understand the situation. I'm quite pleased with the situation, and happy to know that room enough in my heart exists for multiple forms of love.

EDIT: Oh, right, age. I'm 24 as of October.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Logic: Just that if someone wants to have lots of sex with lots of different people, or no sex with no people, or a little bit of sex with very few people, that's their choice and no one else's, and no one else gets to decide how much they should or should not be having.
...outside of the context of a relationship, where there are specific understandings between its members, of course.

I assume then you and I are of the same opinion then. Perhaps I was just making myself unclear.

[Marillion]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

I'm 22, been in love one and a half times, and have had one relationship. I say one and a half because there's this one girl I know where it started as a crush, but the more I got to know her the more I genuinely liked her, until it turned into a deep and abiding respect and desire for her. However, circumstances aren't in favor of a relationship, so I haven't made a move on her; but if anything ever did happen between us, I know I would fall head-over-heels for her.

[Reluctance]

Thirty. Six relationships, although the number is somewhat fuzzy since I'm prone to defacto situations where we never get around to D'ing the R. (I think I've done that exactly once, and that was by accident.) Incapable of love.

And I do think the "history should never factor into one's decisions" is a stupid ideological point. Much better to control the terms of the debate. There's a difference between someone with a colorful history because they just happen to like sex (which is actually useful information to help avoid a libido mismatch), someone who had lots of sex as a way to distract from other issues (which focuses the conversation squarely on said issues, and to what degree they've been resolved), and someone who's had lots of sex due to a bizarre virgin/whore dichotomy (which I've experienced my fair share of). The trick is to move away from using number as the whole of the conversation.

[Herpestidae]

*comes out from under invisibility cloak*

The sexism discussion is over for now, yes? Good. Because I get the feeling I'm about to start it again.

I've come to an epiphany about my life as a social/sexual/romantic/InsertCategoryHere being.

Pretty much all of the relationships (and attempts at such) in which I was involved were initiated by the girl, and my romantic interest in her simply did not exist until she did something that clued me in that she may have feelings for me. I've been asked to prom, invited to shopping trips, been roped into making a fool of myself on the dance floor (I reckoned I'd look the bigger fool if I'd just let her grind against me as if I were a stripper pole). And before each of these encounters, I had barely any awareness of their existence (I was literally unsure of my prom date's name and had to ask for her number to cover up this lack of knowledge).

So basically, I'm either asexual or incredibly spineless. Possibly both.

[Reluctance]

Wait. Is this that you're only attracted when your face is rubbed in something, or that you're clueless that these people like you until they rub your face in it?

[irenicObserver]

Originally Posted by Moonshadow

Just because people happen to have opinions which you disagree with does not make them misogyny.

I think it's unfair to belittle discourse in such a manner.

[Ceric]

Originally Posted by irenicObserver

I think it's unfair to belittle discourse in such a manner.

Misogynist.

Uhm. On-topic, I'm twenty years old, been in one relationship and one semi-serious confusing dating thing (neither of which lasted longer than three months), and I haven't been in love. Except that I think I fell in love with my first ex (from the relationship) directly after and as a reaction to us breaking up, but I don't think that counted as love.

[Astrella]

Originally Posted by Moonshadow

Just because people happen to have opinions which you disagree with does not make them misogyny.

The opposite is also true; something being an opinion doesn't preclude it from being bigoted.

[Morph Bark]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

I turned 22 today and I've only really been in love once. I've been in one relationship, but it wasn't with that person. I've felt strongly about people at more occassions, but those can, in the end, be better described as infatuation, lust or crushes and in one case even perhaps desperation (which occurred after the ending of my relationship).

[The Succubus]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

This is actually a mcuh tougher question than it appears.

I really have trouble distinguishing between love, lust and crushes and sometimes I'll act on a crush resulting in a rather large amount of personal embarassment.

I'm 30 and I've been in a grand total of 1 relationship and even with that one, I don't know if I could class it as someone being in love with me. Certainly, I loved her but it was always me that said "I love you" in the relationship. Maybe she was just really guarded with her feelings but then that's not exactly an encouraging sign either.

I was in love once when I was a teenager but it was very much of the unrequited sort and when I eventually plucked up the courage to tell her, she freaked out completely, which did wonders for my self confidence. -.-

I think I have a better grip on myself these days and although I'm not going to win any modelling awards, I feel comfortable with myself for the first time in many years. There's still that nasty feeling whenever I fall for someone that they're going to freak out if I tell them how I feel but I've learned that unrequited love is a recipe for insanity if you keep it bottled up for too long. If the person says no, yeah, it is heartbreaking but it's a lot better than letting your mind eat away at itself.

So my question to you is - how can you tell the difference between love, lusts and crushes? Because they all seem pretty much identical to me.

[Castaras]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

Twice was in love, Many times was crushing. Both times I was in love I was in a relationship.

Could possibly be 3 times, depending on how you define the line between crush and love.

Oh yeah - 19, been in 2 relationships.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by rogueboy

Ok, I may be the exception, but no. Just no. I am single, attracted to women, wouldn't describe my sex drive as being drastically lower than other guys, but no. If a woman came up and asked me for a one night stand? She'd either get ignored, politely declined, or told off (depending on a variety of circumstances). While I know plenty of guys who seek out one night stands (my roommate a couple years ago was one of them), most of the people I actually *like* spending time with don't do that. And yes, I have plenty of friends.

I don't think you're the exception, I think the guys (and girls) who go around hooking up for one-night stands are. Most people I know have higher standards than "has functional genitalia and is putting out".

Rape... yeah, that's a sword that can cut both ways. Men being raped may be less common (I don't know the numbers off-hand), and is certainly under-reported due to being shamed by it (e.g., "you couldn't fend off a woman?! pansy...").

Last I read (about a year ago) the statistics of reported rapes (which are kind of meaningless because of how many are estimated to go unreported) had about 10% of rape victims being men raped by women. Then there are the men raped by men, which number I can't remember offhand.
And oftentimes when a woman accuses a man of rape it ruins her life too because of all the social stigma and victim-blaming and whatnot.

And...I think I'm done here because I need to take a shower and get ready for work and I can't do that when I keep saying, "What? What? What? I don't even."

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Wow.
...
I'ma gonna go right ahead and let other people handle that one.

So, before the dreaded "m-word" (which clearly was a mistake to use, as it sadly eclipsed my point), there was a "shall we move on from the". So with that in mind:

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

I'm eighteen, cismale, asexual. I've only ever been in love once, and that's the same number of people I've ever had a crush on.

[Herpestidae]

Originally Posted by Reluctance

Wait. Is this that you're only attracted when your face is rubbed in something, or that you're clueless that these people like you until they rub your face in it?

Neither of those options seem mutually exclusive.

EDIT: I can say I've been in love exactly once, when i ews about fifteen. It eas more of a "don't know what you've got until it's gone" deal.

[Synovia]

{{Scrubbed}}

[rogueboy]

Originally Posted by Synovia

I wouldn't consider PA to be in the northeast. Its a mid-adlantic state in my mind. In my experience, the culture is very different in Jersey/New York, and PA is about where things start switching over.

I'm living in MD now, and I think PA should be grouped with MD, VA, etc. When I say northeast, I mean New England, plus New York and New Jersey.

See, differing definitions! It probably has to do with the fact that I spent the first 23 years of my life in WA (and only 2 in PA), and so the entire mid-west/east coast kind of melded into a vague "it's over there somewhere" in my mind. In fact, I only learned a few weeks ago that NY isn't part of New England... I may have known that at some point, but NY was part of New England in my mind.


And thanks, Serp! She's wrangling kids (to use her term; and middle schoolers) at a 10 day choir competition right now (it ends tomorrow). She hasn't responded to the text I sent last Saturday or on Monday, but when we exchanged texts on Friday, she had kids in all levels of disfunction - fainting, projectile vomit, and "other sickness" (multiples of each) - so I'm guessing/hoping that it's just stress and dealing with that which caused her not to reply to my more recent texts. Prior to that, we had exchanged a few messages over OKC (4-5 paragraphs per message after my opener, I gave her my number on my 3rd message) and then exchanged a few texts each day from Tuesday through Friday (including her texting me within 20 minutes of giving her my number). So I'm taking it as good signs with stress causing a lack of communication. I plan to double-check when the competition ends tomorrow (website), and then either text her in the evening or Sunday, depending on when I'm guessing she's done wrangling kids.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by rogueboy

I'll try to give a less-than-positive reason that men generally want their wives to be virgins: women were treated as property (and still are, to greater or lesser degrees in various cultures around the world); if your property has been tarnished by someone else, it isn't worth as much. Therefore, virgins are worth more than women who aren't virgins. Specifically, virgins can fetch a higher dowry and enrich their family more than non-virgins can. There's probably some deeper reason, going back even farther in history, likely something about knowing that if she gets pregnant, it's yours and not someone else's.

Rogueboy, you're on the right track, but not really correct. Virgins were valued in primitive farming societies because it was the only way to know that the first kid was actually yours.

Typically, the first male child inherits everything, so making sure the kid is actually yours is important. If shes not a virgin, she could have gotten knocked up before the wedding.

Children were a valuable asset, and it was important that you confirmed that she could give you your own children.

Nowadays, people don't look at children as an asset. Kids are great, but from a financial perpective, they're a liability.

IMO, this ties in to why there's still much more of a stigma about this sort of thing in rural communities, but its almost dissapeared in the cities.

[rogueboy]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Rogueboy, you're on the right track, but not really correct. Virgins were valued in primitive farming societies because it was the only way to know that the first kid was actually yours.

Typically, the first male child inherits everything, so making sure the kid is actually yours is important. If shes not a virgin, she could have gotten knocked up before the wedding.

Children were a valuable asset, and it was important that you confirmed that she could give you your own children.

Nowadays, people don't look at children as an asset. Kids are great, but from a financial perpective, they're a liability.

IMO, this ties in to why there's still much more of a stigma about this sort of thing in rural communities, but its almost dissapeared in the cities.

I'll be the first to admit that I hadn't really considered inheritance, but I think it's because I was thinking even earlier in 'society', going back closer to more in the hunter/gatherer mode. But I definitely agree that your agriculture-based argument is a lot stronger than whatever it is I was thinking of (I was tired, I forget exactly what I was thinking when I wrote it).

[Drascin]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

24 years old, and never anything I would call love. A couple crushes that I did not feel worth it to pursue, and that's it. Unsusrprisingly, the number of relationships would be zero. But I am probably not the best example to base whether you fall for people too little or too much, given I tend to have problems even with the "actually getting attracted to someone" bit that seems to come so naturally to most people .

[Jan Mattys]

33, four relationships, been in love exactly once (I'm telling this in hindsight).

Sadly, that "once" (which happened around 6 years ago) was the last time I was able to look at / talk to / hold a woman and feel anything.

Now I still see women I'd like to date, who I find interesting, or kind, or nice, or beautiful enough to trigger a lust effect... but loving them? lulz.

I really really fear I've more or less consciously given up to the whole thing.

And that, at 33, scares the hell out of me.

[Sholos]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love?

None

Supplemental questions: how old are you

27

and how many relationships have you had?

Also none. Also no situations where I really thought a girl was interested in me. Most of my attempts have been total shots in the dark.

Yes, I'm aware I'm kind of pathetic. I just can't seem to meet anyone who's attracted more to me than other guys around (or attracted to me at all).

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

So my question to you is - how can you tell the difference between love, lusts and crushes? Because they all seem pretty much identical to me.

Originally Posted by Castaras

...depending on how you define the line between crush and love.

I don't, not for others. For myself, I can only compare to the time I know I was. It's one of those "you know it when you feel it, but if you don't you can't know it" things.

[irenicObserver]

Originally Posted by Ceric

Misogynist.

You...do realize I was talking to Moonshadow right?

[Serpentine]

They were joking... You know, "different opinions = misogyny"?

[irenicObserver]

Hmm... yes but it clearly wasn't very amusing to me; poor comedic timing.

[Ceric]

Originally Posted by irenicObserver

Hmm... yes but it clearly wasn't very amusing to me; poor comedic timing.

Ah, sorry about that, then

[ShortOne]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

[...]I know it's an incredibly trite change of topic, but I really am curious to know the answer: how many times has everyone been in love? Not in lust, infatuated with or had a crush on, but been in love? Supplemental questions: how old are you, and how many relationships have you had?
I've always been thinking that I don't fall for people as often as others do, but I've never actually asked anyone. So... now I'm doing so.

Once, possibly twice in love. It certainly felt like love at the time, but given the circumstances, I think it's unlikely it was. I've been in 2 "real relationships," one fwb, and one relationships that really was more like a friendship.

Originally Posted by Synovia

I wouldn't consider PA to be in the northeast. Its a mid-adlantic state in my mind. In my experience, the culture is very different in Jersey/New York, and PA is about where things start switching over.

And in fact, us Northerners think that Pennsylvania is two cities with Alabama in the middle.

[Mark Hall]

The Mod Wonder: Thread closed for scrubbing.


Edit: Thread reopened. I was quite liberal with the scrub-brush, for which I do not apologize. Remember: Do not respond to flames or trolls. Report and, if you can't ignore them personally, ignore them mechanically. If you don't want your insightful comments scrubbed, do not respond to those with inciteful comments.