Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[Rawhide]

I think I'm going to make a 'dating' website. Except, with a difference. It would be for people that just want to do some harmless flirting, with no chance of meeting, physical relationships, one night stands, or lasting relationships.

Basically, a way for people to wet their feet, build confidence, and get feedback on their approaches.

[dehro]

terrible, terrible idea

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness

Oh yes. I have had to explain to the same person, on three different occasions, that I do not want to go out with him because I am happy being single. This person was not a close friend, and by refusing to accept, "No, thanks," as an answer, has damaged future chances of becoming a close friend.

If he wasn't already your (close) friend than it's not really putting him in the friendzone, is it?

[MonkeyBusiness]

Originally Posted by Reluctance

Fair. But at the same time, he may not have been interested in a purely platonic friendship. If that's the case, moving on is much better than hanging on due to a pretense of friendship. For him, for you, and for everybody involved.

Well, yes. I don't exactly mourn what "might have been" because what I thought might have been and what he thought might have been were completely different things. He wanted something ... warmer. I didn't. That's fine. I merely object to the approach of asking "How about now" everytime we meet. *shakes head, rolls eyes, laughs*

But your point is a good one. Sometimes it's better to just let the friendship go. I was very clear with him, and he could not hear me ... that's not a good forecast for *any* kind of relationship.

And Antlean Troll ... I respectfully disagree. It was a friendship. My point was that I was being clear what I wanted was *only* friendship, and I did that at the outset. As Thufir said, sometimes people don't understand why there won't be a shift from one type of relationship to another.

[The Succubus]

Some folks are not very good at taking hints, especially when it comes to reading other people's emotions. Or, they read something and make a leap to the wrong conclusions. I said before somewhere else on here but relationships really ought to come with an instruction book of some sort. Or at least some kind of health warning. *sigh*

@Rawhide: It's a neat idea (and a lot more productive than my suggestion =p). The only slight snag is that relationships will inevitably grow out of it, which may be a good thing or a bad thing.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

Some folks are not very good at taking hints, especially when it comes to reading other people's emotions. Or, they read something and make a leap to the wrong conclusions. I said before somewhere else on here but relationships really ought to come with an instruction book of some sort. Or at least some kind of health warning. *sigh*

Or, God forbid, people could actually say what they mean.

[Sholos]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Because it's basically always guys complaining about it. I have no doubt there's plenty of girls mooning after a guy who never even looks at her in that way. The difference appears to be, in a terribly generalising and admittedly pretty much baseless way, that more girls, when confronted with a guy only interested in girls who aren't her, asks "what's wrong with me, why doesn't he like me?" rather than "what's wrong with him, why does he like her?"
edit: I think I should point out that neither of these questions is particularly healthy, although at least the former could lead to self improvement.

Huh, that actually sounds pretty much exactly like what I do. Except that I can never figure out what's wrong with me in order to fix it.

Admittedly, a lot of people here are putting "Nice Guy" in terms of wanting sex, but in reality the Nice Guys themselves at least parse it as wanting a relationship.
And I find it interesting that, in my experience, contrary to stereotypes, guys are often more keen on relationships than no-strings-attached happyfuntime activities.

On a side note, I've stolen that particular expression. I hope you don't mind.

[Coidzor]

At least part of that is possibly attributable to the gulf between people who effortlessly find themselves getting physical attention from women just for putting themselves out there and so no-strings attached funtimes are rather blase to them and people who either are categorically unable to get such funtimes or who have convinced themselves of their inability to do so or the undesirability of such because of moralizing authority figures and internalized it enough that they can't even conceive of investigating or trying for such.

So a relationship is either of interest for the novelty in contrast to emotionally disconnected sex or because it is a potential gateway to sexual access. In addition to a number of other reasons which I haven't touched upon at all.

From another point of view, someone with whom one is in a relationship with is ostensibly someone that one is either emotionally intimate with and can open up to or someone that one is able to do that with. Conventional masculinity does not afford many people that one is allowed to be truly open with or emotionally intimate. Then again, by my understanding, neither does conventional femininity, but there's a whole lot more emphasis on maintaining an appearance of having a pool of emotionally intimate girlfriends and some pressure to maintain a relationship with one's parents rather than to distantly respect and maybe honor them, but I have an imperfect understanding so there's likely something I'm misremembering from the last time I had an existential crisis over whether it's possible to actually ever truly be emotionally intimate with someone or if it's all just a series of elaborate games and posturing that we use to maintain some status and feel like we're keeping up in the great game of life.

I suppose I'm just rambling now, and if I started out thinking I had a point, I forgot it in my infantile flagellation.

[Castaras]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

Or, God forbid, people could actually say what they mean.

*waves* we do exist. The current status of my world (which is getting more complicated all the while, unfortunately ) is built on bluntness and actually saying something instead of trying to hint at it.

Would be a beautiful world if bluntness was the norm instead of the exception. I envy those European countries that thrive on bluntness instead of the pussyfooting we regularly have in England.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by Castaras

*waves* we do exist. The current status of my world (which is getting more complicated all the while, unfortunately ) is built on bluntness and actually saying something instead of trying to hint at it.

Would be a beautiful world if bluntness was the norm instead of the exception. I envy those European countries that thrive on bluntness instead of the pussyfooting we regularly have in England.

To clarify, I don't mean bluntness in women. Us guys are just as likely to pussyfoot. Though nothing is quite so attractive as a blunt woman. Mulan's got it wrong in one aspect. Speaking your mind is not unappealing.

Also, woo, more support for being a **** = GF. Talking with friend who has actually has a stable relationship and has for a while about how he started going out with his GF. And I quote: "... I got into my relationship with [Name] by flirting with her and being a **** in general." But then, later, "Well when I say be an ******* I don't mean be a horrible person, so much as just teasing the girl in a ****ish way. It's not what you do so much as how you do it, you know?"

I hate being an adolescent sometimes.

[Coidzor]

Maybe this is another one of those cases of personal definitions differing from the ones in use, but I always found that bluntness tended to lead to ill-considered actions and a lack of reflection upon how to proceed in situations with any real complexity that couldn't be dealt with like one was cutting the Gordian Knot.

Similarly, "brutal honesty," lead people to emphasize the brutal and sarcasm and misanthropy over the actual honesty, instead letting their biases and bitterness come out in vindictive ways more than they actually employed honesty.

There's a difference between speaking your mind and going out of your way to choose words that will alienate or actively choosing not to choose one's words to communicate clearly.

Similarly, while it is generally OK to speak your mind, there comes a time when one needs to be aware of what is on one's mind. What with things like racism not only being morally repugnant but also an influence that stunts the growth of the intellect and critical thinking.

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

Also, woo, more support for being a **** = GF. Talking with friend who has actually has a stable relationship and has for a while about how he started going out with his GF. And I quote: "... I got into my relationship with [Name] by flirting with her and being a **** in general." But then, later, "Well when I say be an ******* I don't mean be a horrible person, so much as just teasing the girl in a ****ish way. It's not what you do so much as how you do it, you know?"

I hate being an adolescent sometimes.

I'm confused by the idea that flirting with someone is associated with being an expletive. Those are some impressive communications skills though, sadly, some people are still communicating at that level well past their adolescence. :/ I'd say to savor the people who are past that stage, or even working on getting past it,, but it's possible I've just been unfortunate, haha.

[The Succubus]

Originally Posted by Castaras

*waves* we do exist. The current status of my world (which is getting more complicated all the while, unfortunately ) is built on bluntness and actually saying something instead of trying to hint at it.

Would be a beautiful world if bluntness was the norm instead of the exception. I envy those European countries that thrive on bluntness instead of the pussyfooting we regularly have in England.

Blunt words can often do the same damage as a cutting remark. My ex was incredibly blunt with me at times, occasionally making me wonder if she actually had any consideration for my feelings at all. Yes, being honest is good and being direct can be a virtue. Remember though that the other person is not a soulless automaton and that humans simply cannot handle hearing 100% of the truth 100% of the time.

[dehro]

in my, however personal and possibly a little biased, experience, it's somewhat easier for a woman to find herself in a nsa sexual situation than it is for men.
not quite "a woman only has to lower her standards to be on to a sure thing whilst a man may lower all he wants, pants included, but that's still not a surefire receipt for getting laid"... but somewhat in that direction.
I do think that the "still got it" factor that comes with the, however fleeting, gratification that sex can offer, and its different grade of.. attainability between men and women, does play a role in this whole "nice guy/ nice guy wanting sex/nice guy wanting more" (and the female counterpart) debate.
what that role is, I'm not so sure.
I do realize a lot of people may find personal gratification/morale boost through sex somewhat demeaning or shallow, but it's a thing..and has its role in this complicated subject..even though it doesn't work for everybody

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

Similarly, while it is generally OK to speak your mind, there comes a time when one needs to be aware of what is on one's mind. What with things like racism not only being morally repugnant but also an influence that stunts the growth of the intellect and critical thinking.

Well ... Yeah. Bigotry is never a good thing. But if somebody dislikes something, it's kind of cool if they aren't afraid to voice their opinion.

I'm confused by the idea that flirting with someone is associated with being an expletive. Those are some impressive communications skills though, sadly, some people are still communicating at that level well past their adolescence. :/ I'd say to savor the people who are past that stage, or even working on getting past it,, but it's possible I've just been unfortunate, haha.

I mean, my friend, isn't a horrible person to his girlfriend ... Or to anybody for that matter. He's just a bit of a jerk. (Better word than ****, and not too different.)

And impressive? How so.

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

And impressive? How so.

The whole "you've gotta be Full-Renegade Shep" that you related from him to you and then him later going "well, ok, not actually Full-Renegade Shep, but Renegade-Shep-like!" Reminds me of the days when I was an adolescent male trying to communicate with other adolescent males.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

The whole "you've gotta be Full-Renegade Shep" that you related from him to you and then him later going "well, ok, not actually Full-Renegade Shep, but Renegade-Shep-like!" Reminds me of the days when I was an adolescent male trying to communicate with other adolescent males.

Oh, yeah, I guess. I like to think that nothing near all my conversations are that ... Shallow? I'm not even sure that's the right word. I don't think they are.

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by Sholos

On a side note, I've stolen that particular expression. I hope you don't mind.

By all means

Originally Posted by Sholos

Huh, that actually sounds pretty much exactly like what I do. Except that I can never figure out what's wrong with me in order to fix it.

Seems like a good point to repost my Brutally Honest Guide in hopes of getting it brutally honestly critiqued and added to so I can get it into a useable final(ish) form,

Spoiler

Serpentine’s Brutally Honest Guide to Self Image
Because, frankly, it could be you.

The most frequent advice given to dateless persons in this thread seems to be “it’s just her/him, don’t worry about it” and “just be yourself”. While there is nothing wrong with this advice, and it may very well be true, it may also be glossing over the nub of the problem: That there is, in fact, something about you that drives away persons of the opposite (or same, if you swing that way) sex. That is definitely not to say that you shouldn’t “be yourself” – being anyone else is at best lying and deception, and at worst identity theft. The thing is, making who yourself is, who you want to be. It’s not about “becoming a new person”, it’s about making the person you already are, better. So, the next time you find yourself lamenting your datelessness, I want you to look over this list and check whether there’s any (fixable ones) that could be contributing.
This is by no means a comprehensive list (if you think of anything else to add, though, tell me so I can put it in), and there are several items that may not be clear-cut, that may be totally repulsive to one person and a huge turn-on to another. I just mean it to be something to think about, to make you consider properly the sort of front you’re presenting to the people around you, and whether that’s the face you really want to show. Furthermore, just because you give the “wrong” answer to some questions, doesn’t mean you’re a horrible, disgusting no-hope loser – I know I’ll definitely have some of these, and I think I’m still an alright person. It will just mean, hopefully, that you’re more aware of these things and their influence on those around you.
Final note, some of these may be gender-specific, though admittedly I am basically writing this for males as they seem to be the main ones who complain about such things, but I think most are unisexual.

I would like to begin with the most important, clear-cut, obvious and influential category, one, so I hear, distressingly ignored by far too many geeks:

Hygiene

o Do you wash regularly?
o Do you wash more frequently in humid and warm weather?
o Do you clean yourself thoroughly when you wash?
o Do you wash your hair regularly, well, and with a decent-quality shampoo and conditioner?
o Do you have excessive body odour?
• Do you wear deodorant?
• Do you put it on before you need it?
• Do you wash your clothes regularly, and when they need it?
• If you answered “yes” to all of these, have you seen a doctor about it?
- If not, do so. It may be a treatable medical problem.
o If you can’t shower, do you use an alcoholic (or anti-bacterial?) spray on (rather than roll-on) deodorant do get rid of odour already there?
o Do you have an acne problem?
• Do you wash your face regularly?
• Have you seen a doctor about it?
- If not, do so. Again, it may be a treatable medical problem.
o Do you clean your teeth regularly, especially when going out or when you will be around other people?
o Are you conscious of when you haven’t cleaned your teeth, and take appropriate steps to avoid breathing on anyone?
•Chewing gum or simply keeping your distance are good starts.
o Do you have excessively or persistently bad breath?
• Have you seen a doctor about it?
- Guess what. Do so, it could be a treatable medical problem.
o Do you visit the dentist regularly?
o Have you had any work that needs to be done, done?
o Do you have particularly crooked teeth?
o Do you have particularly large teeth?
• It’s unlikely that you could do anything about this, but it’s worth being conscious of, though by no means self-conscious about.
o Do you have excessively stained teeth?
o Do you have excessively white teeth?
• I’m looking at you, So You Think You Can Dance Pirahna-Lady =.=
o Do you shave or pluck any facial hair?
• If not, is it deliberately styled (as opposed to growing any which-way), trimmed, kept clean, and otherwise carefully groomed?
• If you do, do you do so frequently enough to avoid excess stubble?
- Some people look quite good with stubble, but it’s not exactly pleasant for make-outs. Just something to keep in mind.
o (girls only) Do you shave your armpits regularly?
• This would be one of those “some like it, some hate it” ones.
o Do you shave your legs regularly?
o Do you have any skin conditions, especially visible ones?
• Are you getting treated for it?
o Do you spit when you talk?
o Do you avoid coughing, sneezing or breathing on people when you’re sick?
o Do you wash your hands after every trip to the toilet, and any other time they need it?
o Do you wipe the sweat off before shaking hands with someone?
o Do you pick your nose in public?
o Do your feet smell?
o If you wear something frequently or constantly – a hat, wrist band, etc. – do you wash it as often as you would any other item of clothing?
oDo you smoke?
• Do you avoid doing so around non-smokers?
• Do you wash your clothes etc. frequently to remove the cigarette smell?
• Do you chew gum afterwards?

Social Skills

o Are you conscious of other people’s personal space?
• Are you excessively conscious of your own?
o Do you “lurk”?
o If you are around when someone is occupied with something else, do you do something – make conversation, watch TV, draw, read, whatever – or do you just stand there and watch them?
• Oddly specific because based on personal experience.
o Are you capable of making conversation?
• If not, quick and dirty guide: ask questions that encourage more than a “yes” or “no” answer, and respond to questions with more than “yes” or “no”. Seek help, this is a very important skill to learn.
o Do you speak clearly?
• Do you speak too fast or too slow?
• Do you slur your words?
• Do you enunciate your words?
• Do you usually get the pronunciation right?
o Can you talk to persons of the opposite sex as you would anyone?
o Are you willing and able to approach others?
o Can you “take a hint”?
• Can you recognise when it is time to take your leave, or when someone wants you to stay, etc?
o Do you listen when other people talk?
o Do you meet people’s eyes when you talk to them?
o Do you need to make yourself stop staring at certain places?
o Do you stare?
o Do you take a genuine interest in what other people have to say?
o Are you articulate?
o Do you have a sense of humour?
• Do you really, or do you just think you’re hilarious?
o Do you have a reasonably broad knowledge in a range of interesting topics?
o Do you laugh too loud, or too readily, or strangely?
o Do you laugh at your own jokes?
• Do you have trouble finishing a joke because you’re laughing too hard at it?
o Do you talk too loud or too softly?
o Do you have a speech impediment?
• Obviously not something you’re likely to be able to fix, but it might be worth talking to a speech therapist if you haven’t already.
o Do you take into account the interest of your audience before telling a story or anecdote?
o Are you a good storyteller?
o Can you finish a story well?
o Can you tailor jokes and conversation to suit your audience?
o Do you, by design or accident, dominate any gathering or conversation?
o Do you get excessively agitated whenever someone expresses an opinion contrary to your own?
o Do you argue for the sake of argument?
o When you argue, do you listen, address your opponent’s points, make your own well thought-out and articulate, allow for the possibility of changing your own view, avoid personal attacks, and other things conductive to an enjoyable and constructive discussion?
o Do you know when to let a matter go?
o Are you honest but tactful when offering an opinion, advice, or criticism?
o Are you overeager to offer an opinion, advice or criticism?
o Do you try to convince people that you are smarter or more knowledgeable than you really are?
o Do you tend to show off your intelligence?
o Are you excessively boastful?
o Do you readily make your own physical, mental, emotional or other problems a topic of conversation?
• “Hi I’m bipolar.”
o Do you carry a chip on your shoulder and/or your problems on your back?
o Can you handle someone making a joke at your expense?
o Do you make too many jokes at the expense of others?
o Do you pick out one person to make fun of?
o Do you blame others when they take offence at what you meant to be a joke?
o Do you “suck up”, “brownnose” or otherwise try to get into someone’s favour?
o Are you condescending and/or patronising?
o Do you go out of your way to make people feel awkward?
o Are you conscious of what makes other people uncomfortable?
o When approaching someone, do you “sidle” and suddenly appear behind or beside them?
o Are you excessively physical and/or intimate?
o Are you excessively uncomfortable with human contact?
o Do you tend to insult or belittle other people’s lifestyles and/or beliefs?
o Do you consider others to be lesser than you, stupider than you, or otherwise beneath your notice?
o Do you treat others with contempt?
o Do you find yourself telling people to “grow up” a lot?
o Do other people tell you to “grow up” a lot?
o Are you miserly?
o Are you helpful?
o Do you say “please” and “thank you” and other basic manners?
o Can you accept compliments graciously?
o Do you expect compliments?
o Do you give compliments?
• Do you do so excessively, and/or creepily?
o Do you seek attention?
o Can you take “no” for an answer?
o Are you violent?
o Are you intimidating, deliberately or by virtue of build?
o Do you drink too much?
• Are you unpleasant – randy or angry or violent – when you drink?
o Do you take drugs, legal or otherwise?
• Are you, to put it bluntly, drugf***ed?

Aesthetics

o Do you have a hair style that suits you?
o Do you have your hair trimmed when it needs it?
o Do you wear cuts and colours that suit you?
o Do you dress appropriately to your shape and size?
o Do you have, and wear, at least some interesting clothes?
o Do you wear interesting combinations of clothes?
o Is everything you own brand-name?
o Are many of your clothes stained?
o Is your default facial expression any of the following: scowl, half-open dullard mouth, frown, frogface, piranha (see: woman on So You Think You Can Dance)?
o Do you wear too much makeup?
o Do you wear too little makeup?
o Do you have any particularly prominent and ugly moles?
o Do your glasses suit you?
o Do you wear clothing, shoes, etc. ridiculously oversized?
o Do you wear a belt if your pants require one?
o Do you regularly make fashion faux-pas (e.g. socks with sandals), that simply don’t look good?
o Do you clean your shoes?
o Do you polish shoes that require it occasionally?
o Do you replace or repair shoes or other clothing when necessary?
o Do you brush your hair?
o Do you wear excessive amounts of hair products?
o Do you wear excessive amounts of any product?
o Do you wear strong perfume/cologne?
o Do you wear nasty perfume/cologne?
o Do you have an unusually large number of piercings?
o Do you have an unusual lack of piercings?
o Do you adhere to an “alternative” or fringe fashion?
o Do you adhere to strict mainstream fashions?
o Do you have at least the basic idea of cooking and other housekeeping skills?
o Do you have basic table manners?
o Do you avoid showing off a spotty or hairy bikini line?
o Is your underwear, indeed, "under"?
o Do you wear pants hitched too high or too low?


As I said, this is just something to ponder, if you’re searching for a possible reason why you might be struggling to find a significant other. Think about who it is you’re being, when you’re “being yourself”, and whether that’s the you you want everyone to be seeing. All we can see is what you present to us, and first impressions really do matter.

[noparlpf]

Friendships are a kind of relationship. So this should go here.

How does one go about meeting new people? Usually I'm not too bad at it (in smaller environments), but a. classes haven't started yet so I have nothing to force me out to meet people, and b. I am in "holy-poop-this-place-is-friggin-huge-oh-no-look-at-all-the-people panic mode" which for me means shutting down and hiding in my room.

[Serpentine]

Good ways to meet new people:

1. Know people. I know, it seems circular. But it's possibly the best way to meet new people there is: as long as you know one person, they can introduce you to other people, and those people can introduce you to more, and so on.
2. Clubs, classes, etc. Seems you're waiting on classes to start (you just starting uni or something?), so I suggest looking into what clubs or groups are available that you might be interested in, and check out notice boards, and so on.
3. Randomly start talking to people who look interesting.
4. Sharing and spontaneous events. You mention hiding "in your room", so I assume you're in some sort of campus accommodation? Well, I don't know what facilities you have there, but you could do some variation on acquiring large amounts of something delicious (e.g. biscuits, cakes), and some sort of group activity (watching a DVD, playing a game), and set it all up somewhere public. Let the people come to you (mwahaha).

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Good ways to meet new people:

1. Know people. I know, it seems circular. But it's possibly the best way to meet new people there is: as long as you know one person, they can introduce you to other people, and those people can introduce you to more, and so on.

I sort of know (like we might know each others' names and that's about it) a girl who transferred here from my old school. I don't think that counts. And a girl I knew in high school about three years ago is a senior. Maybe I'll email her.

2. Clubs, classes, etc. Seems you're waiting on classes to start (you just starting uni or something?), so I suggest looking into what clubs or groups are available that you might be interested in, and check out notice boards, and so on.

I'm starting at a new school, transferring in as a junior. From a tiny college to a huge university. Classes start Monday, and there's a club fair sometime in the next month, which I plan to attend, but I don't know when that'll be.

3. Randomly start talking to people who look interesting.

How does that work? I'm much better at it when I'm not thinking about it and when I'm not panicking about how many people there are. And what does interesting look like?

4. Sharing and spontaneous events. You mention hiding "in your room", so I assume you're in some sort of campus accommodation? Well, I don't know what facilities you have there, but you could do some variation on acquiring large amounts of something delicious (e.g. biscuits, cakes), and some sort of group activity (watching a DVD, playing a game), and set it all up somewhere public. Let the people come to you (mwahaha).

Spontaneous sounds a little complicated for me right now.

[Tonal Architect]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

3. Randomly start talking to people who look interesting.

How does that work? I'm much better at it when I'm not thinking about it and when I'm not panicking about how many people there are. And what does interesting look like?

The thing about humans is that, while we are somewhat different, the similarities far outweight the differences.

Once that's said, try to do just as the suggestion implies: Simply talk to someone who catches your eye; talk to people at random, if nothing really appeals to you.

You'll soon notice patterns to human interaction, such as how people react for better or for worse, when given certain stimuli. Try to keep the conversation going for as much as want.

You should be able to make friends easily, once you understand just what other want.

[Sholos]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

By all means
Seems like a good point to repost my Brutally Honest Guide in hopes of getting it brutally honestly critiqued and added to so I can get it into a useable final(ish) form,

Spoiler

Serpentine’s Brutally Honest Guide to Self Image
Because, frankly, it could be you.

The most frequent advice given to dateless persons in this thread seems to be “it’s just her/him, don’t worry about it” and “just be yourself”. While there is nothing wrong with this advice, and it may very well be true, it may also be glossing over the nub of the problem: That there is, in fact, something about you that drives away persons of the opposite (or same, if you swing that way) sex. That is definitely not to say that you shouldn’t “be yourself” – being anyone else is at best lying and deception, and at worst identity theft. The thing is, making who yourself is, who you want to be. It’s not about “becoming a new person”, it’s about making the person you already are, better. So, the next time you find yourself lamenting your datelessness, I want you to look over this list and check whether there’s any (fixable ones) that could be contributing.
This is by no means a comprehensive list (if you think of anything else to add, though, tell me so I can put it in), and there are several items that may not be clear-cut, that may be totally repulsive to one person and a huge turn-on to another. I just mean it to be something to think about, to make you consider properly the sort of front you’re presenting to the people around you, and whether that’s the face you really want to show. Furthermore, just because you give the “wrong” answer to some questions, doesn’t mean you’re a horrible, disgusting no-hope loser – I know I’ll definitely have some of these, and I think I’m still an alright person. It will just mean, hopefully, that you’re more aware of these things and their influence on those around you.
Final note, some of these may be gender-specific, though admittedly I am basically writing this for males as they seem to be the main ones who complain about such things, but I think most are unisexual.

I would like to begin with the most important, clear-cut, obvious and influential category, one, so I hear, distressingly ignored by far too many geeks:

Hygiene

o Do you wash regularly?
o Do you wash more frequently in humid and warm weather?
o Do you clean yourself thoroughly when you wash?
o Do you wash your hair regularly, well, and with a decent-quality shampoo and conditioner?
o Do you have excessive body odour?
• Do you wear deodorant?
• Do you put it on before you need it?
• Do you wash your clothes regularly, and when they need it?
• If you answered “yes” to all of these, have you seen a doctor about it?
- If not, do so. It may be a treatable medical problem.
o If you can’t shower, do you use an alcoholic (or anti-bacterial?) spray on (rather than roll-on) deodorant do get rid of odour already there?
o Do you have an acne problem?
• Do you wash your face regularly?
• Have you seen a doctor about it?
- If not, do so. Again, it may be a treatable medical problem.
o Do you clean your teeth regularly, especially when going out or when you will be around other people?
o Are you conscious of when you haven’t cleaned your teeth, and take appropriate steps to avoid breathing on anyone?
•Chewing gum or simply keeping your distance are good starts.
o Do you have excessively or persistently bad breath?
• Have you seen a doctor about it?
- Guess what. Do so, it could be a treatable medical problem.
o Do you visit the dentist regularly?
o Have you had any work that needs to be done, done?
o Do you have particularly crooked teeth?
o Do you have particularly large teeth?
• It’s unlikely that you could do anything about this, but it’s worth being conscious of, though by no means self-conscious about.
o Do you have excessively stained teeth?
o Do you have excessively white teeth?
• I’m looking at you, So You Think You Can Dance Pirahna-Lady =.=
o Do you shave or pluck any facial hair?
• If not, is it deliberately styled (as opposed to growing any which-way), trimmed, kept clean, and otherwise carefully groomed?
• If you do, do you do so frequently enough to avoid excess stubble?
- Some people look quite good with stubble, but it’s not exactly pleasant for make-outs. Just something to keep in mind.
o (girls only) Do you shave your armpits regularly?
• This would be one of those “some like it, some hate it” ones.
o Do you shave your legs regularly?
o Do you have any skin conditions, especially visible ones?
• Are you getting treated for it?
o Do you spit when you talk?
o Do you avoid coughing, sneezing or breathing on people when you’re sick?
o Do you wash your hands after every trip to the toilet, and any other time they need it?
o Do you wipe the sweat off before shaking hands with someone?
o Do you pick your nose in public?
o Do your feet smell?
o If you wear something frequently or constantly – a hat, wrist band, etc. – do you wash it as often as you would any other item of clothing?
oDo you smoke?
• Do you avoid doing so around non-smokers?
• Do you wash your clothes etc. frequently to remove the cigarette smell?
• Do you chew gum afterwards?

Social Skills

o Are you conscious of other people’s personal space?
• Are you excessively conscious of your own?
o Do you “lurk”?
o If you are around when someone is occupied with something else, do you do something – make conversation, watch TV, draw, read, whatever – or do you just stand there and watch them?
• Oddly specific because based on personal experience.
o Are you capable of making conversation?
• If not, quick and dirty guide: ask questions that encourage more than a “yes” or “no” answer, and respond to questions with more than “yes” or “no”. Seek help, this is a very important skill to learn.
o Do you speak clearly?
• Do you speak too fast or too slow?
• Do you slur your words?
• Do you enunciate your words?
• Do you usually get the pronunciation right?
o Can you talk to persons of the opposite sex as you would anyone?
o Are you willing and able to approach others?
o Can you “take a hint”?
• Can you recognise when it is time to take your leave, or when someone wants you to stay, etc?
o Do you listen when other people talk?
o Do you meet people’s eyes when you talk to them?
o Do you need to make yourself stop staring at certain places?
o Do you stare?
o Do you take a genuine interest in what other people have to say?
o Are you articulate?
o Do you have a sense of humour?
• Do you really, or do you just think you’re hilarious?
o Do you have a reasonably broad knowledge in a range of interesting topics?
o Do you laugh too loud, or too readily, or strangely?
o Do you laugh at your own jokes?
• Do you have trouble finishing a joke because you’re laughing too hard at it?
o Do you talk too loud or too softly?
o Do you have a speech impediment?
• Obviously not something you’re likely to be able to fix, but it might be worth talking to a speech therapist if you haven’t already.
o Do you take into account the interest of your audience before telling a story or anecdote?
o Are you a good storyteller?
o Can you finish a story well?
o Can you tailor jokes and conversation to suit your audience?
o Do you, by design or accident, dominate any gathering or conversation?
o Do you get excessively agitated whenever someone expresses an opinion contrary to your own?
o Do you argue for the sake of argument?
o When you argue, do you listen, address your opponent’s points, make your own well thought-out and articulate, allow for the possibility of changing your own view, avoid personal attacks, and other things conductive to an enjoyable and constructive discussion?
o Do you know when to let a matter go?
o Are you honest but tactful when offering an opinion, advice, or criticism?
o Are you overeager to offer an opinion, advice or criticism?
o Do you try to convince people that you are smarter or more knowledgeable than you really are?
o Do you tend to show off your intelligence?
o Are you excessively boastful?
o Do you readily make your own physical, mental, emotional or other problems a topic of conversation?
• “Hi I’m bipolar.”
o Do you carry a chip on your shoulder and/or your problems on your back?
o Can you handle someone making a joke at your expense?
o Do you make too many jokes at the expense of others?
o Do you pick out one person to make fun of?
o Do you blame others when they take offence at what you meant to be a joke?
o Do you “suck up”, “brownnose” or otherwise try to get into someone’s favour?
o Are you condescending and/or patronising?
o Do you go out of your way to make people feel awkward?
o Are you conscious of what makes other people uncomfortable?
o When approaching someone, do you “sidle” and suddenly appear behind or beside them?
o Are you excessively physical and/or intimate?
o Are you excessively uncomfortable with human contact?
o Do you tend to insult or belittle other people’s lifestyles and/or beliefs?
o Do you consider others to be lesser than you, stupider than you, or otherwise beneath your notice?
o Do you treat others with contempt?
o Do you find yourself telling people to “grow up” a lot?
o Do other people tell you to “grow up” a lot?
o Are you miserly?
o Are you helpful?
o Do you say “please” and “thank you” and other basic manners?
o Can you accept compliments graciously?
o Do you expect compliments?
o Do you give compliments?
• Do you do so excessively, and/or creepily?
o Do you seek attention?
o Can you take “no” for an answer?
o Are you violent?
o Are you intimidating, deliberately or by virtue of build?
o Do you drink too much?
• Are you unpleasant – randy or angry or violent – when you drink?
o Do you take drugs, legal or otherwise?
• Are you, to put it bluntly, drugf***ed?

Aesthetics

o Do you have a hair style that suits you?
o Do you have your hair trimmed when it needs it?
o Do you wear cuts and colours that suit you?
o Do you dress appropriately to your shape and size?
o Do you have, and wear, at least some interesting clothes?
o Do you wear interesting combinations of clothes?
o Is everything you own brand-name?
o Are many of your clothes stained?
o Is your default facial expression any of the following: scowl, half-open dullard mouth, frown, frogface, piranha (see: woman on So You Think You Can Dance)?
o Do you wear too much makeup?
o Do you wear too little makeup?
o Do you have any particularly prominent and ugly moles?
o Do your glasses suit you?
o Do you wear clothing, shoes, etc. ridiculously oversized?
o Do you wear a belt if your pants require one?
o Do you regularly make fashion faux-pas (e.g. socks with sandals), that simply don’t look good?
o Do you clean your shoes?
o Do you polish shoes that require it occasionally?
o Do you replace or repair shoes or other clothing when necessary?
o Do you brush your hair?
o Do you wear excessive amounts of hair products?
o Do you wear excessive amounts of any product?
o Do you wear strong perfume/cologne?
o Do you wear nasty perfume/cologne?
o Do you have an unusually large number of piercings?
o Do you have an unusual lack of piercings?
o Do you adhere to an “alternative” or fringe fashion?
o Do you adhere to strict mainstream fashions?
o Do you have at least the basic idea of cooking and other housekeeping skills?
o Do you have basic table manners?
o Do you avoid showing off a spotty or hairy bikini line?
o Is your underwear, indeed, "under"?
o Do you wear pants hitched too high or too low?


As I said, this is just something to ponder, if you’re searching for a possible reason why you might be struggling to find a significant other. Think about who it is you’re being, when you’re “being yourself”, and whether that’s the you you want everyone to be seeing. All we can see is what you present to us, and first impressions really do matter.

See, I've gone over that list again and again and I really can't find anything on it that pings particularly hard on my radar. None of my friends can give me an answer either.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Good ways to meet new people:

1. Know people. I know, it seems circular. But it's possibly the best way to meet new people there is: as long as you know one person, they can introduce you to other people, and those people can introduce you to more, and so on.
*snip*

That works if your friends are actually invested in introducing you to new people and helping you out socially. Sadly, mine are not.

[rogueboy]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

How does one go about meeting new people? Usually I'm not too bad at it (in smaller environments), but a. classes haven't started yet so I have nothing to force me out to meet people, and b. I am in "holy-poop-this-place-is-friggin-huge-oh-no-look-at-all-the-people panic mode" which for me means shutting down and hiding in my room.

That sounds a bit like where I was when I started college (even if it wasn't, by most standards, a particularly large university, 13,000 or so was massive by my standards [my high school, which covered 6-12, had 500 people, for comparison]). The answer I found that worked, at least to find a few people who were interesting was, at least while I was in the dorms, to simply leave my door open while I was doing whatever it is I felt like doing. A lot of the people in the dorms are wanting to meet people, so you'll probably get a few people passing by who stop in and introduce themselves. Use that to your advantage.

The other big one is if your department has a student club. I met a LOT of people through the chem club that my undergrad department had, and several of them are still friends I talk to at least somewhat regularly (I graduated from there 2 years ago). Upper level classes are also good (100 and 200 level classes tend to be too big to meet people, but 300 and 400 level classes are usually smaller). This probably requires you to wait until classes start, however, while leaving your door open can be done as soon as you've moved in (does require you to actually be in a dorm or something similar, however).

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by rogueboy

That sounds a bit like where I was when I started college (even if it wasn't, by most standards, a particularly large university, 13,000 or so was massive by my standards [my high school, which covered 6-12, had 500 people, for comparison]). The answer I found that worked, at least to find a few people who were interesting was, at least while I was in the dorms, to simply leave my door open while I was doing whatever it is I felt like doing. A lot of the people in the dorms are wanting to meet people, so you'll probably get a few people passing by who stop in and introduce themselves. Use that to your advantage.

The other big one is if your department has a student club. I met a LOT of people through the chem club that my undergrad department had, and several of them are still friends I talk to at least somewhat regularly (I graduated from there 2 years ago). Upper level classes are also good (100 and 200 level classes tend to be too big to meet people, but 300 and 400 level classes are usually smaller). This probably requires you to wait until classes start, however, while leaving your door open can be done as soon as you've moved in (does require you to actually be in a dorm or something similar, however).

High school was a manageable 3000. This is something like 25k. My only 300-level class is P-chem. I'm planning to check out clubs when those happen. And leaving my door open won't help much because I'm tucked wayyy in the corner of the top floor, by the fire escape. Very little traffic unless somebody starts burning down the building.

[Gitman00]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

That reminds me: Gitman, ackshully, with arrogance I had more in mind the "third party"/"jerk" - basically where the Nice Guy sees arrogance, the girl-who-dates-jerks sees confidence, and either (or both) could be right.

Ah, got it. I added another note to this effect.

EDIT: Also, there seems to be a bit of confusion about my "wait a week before calling" advice. (That was directed mainly at the guys, by the way) The point is not to try to seem disinterested as a way of being manipulative. I always encourage being open and honest. The point is to see if the relationship will go anywhere. If she's into you, she'll either call you before the week is up, or she'll be anticipating your call. If she rejects you solely because you waited a week, she's either high-maintenance or she wasn't that into you in the first place.

A secondary reason is to not come across as desperate. I've made that mistake before.

Also, it's not a hard-and-fast rule. Only you can gauge how well the first date went, and it may indeed be fine to make plans before it's even over.

[inky13112]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

By all means
Seems like a good point to repost my Brutally Honest Guide in hopes of getting it brutally honestly critiqued and added to so I can get it into a useable final(ish) form,

Spoiler

Serpentine’s Brutally Honest Guide to Self Image
Because, frankly, it could be you.

The most frequent advice given to dateless persons in this thread seems to be “it’s just her/him, don’t worry about it” and “just be yourself”. While there is nothing wrong with this advice, and it may very well be true, it may also be glossing over the nub of the problem: That there is, in fact, something about you that drives away persons of the opposite (or same, if you swing that way) sex. That is definitely not to say that you shouldn’t “be yourself” – being anyone else is at best lying and deception, and at worst identity theft. The thing is, making who yourself is, who you want to be. It’s not about “becoming a new person”, it’s about making the person you already are, better. So, the next time you find yourself lamenting your datelessness, I want you to look over this list and check whether there’s any (fixable ones) that could be contributing.
This is by no means a comprehensive list (if you think of anything else to add, though, tell me so I can put it in), and there are several items that may not be clear-cut, that may be totally repulsive to one person and a huge turn-on to another. I just mean it to be something to think about, to make you consider properly the sort of front you’re presenting to the people around you, and whether that’s the face you really want to show. Furthermore, just because you give the “wrong” answer to some questions, doesn’t mean you’re a horrible, disgusting no-hope loser – I know I’ll definitely have some of these, and I think I’m still an alright person. It will just mean, hopefully, that you’re more aware of these things and their influence on those around you.
Final note, some of these may be gender-specific, though admittedly I am basically writing this for males as they seem to be the main ones who complain about such things, but I think most are unisexual.

I would like to begin with the most important, clear-cut, obvious and influential category, one, so I hear, distressingly ignored by far too many geeks:

Hygiene

o Do you wash regularly?
o Do you wash more frequently in humid and warm weather?
o Do you clean yourself thoroughly when you wash?
o Do you wash your hair regularly, well, and with a decent-quality shampoo and conditioner?
o Do you have excessive body odour?
• Do you wear deodorant?
• Do you put it on before you need it?
• Do you wash your clothes regularly, and when they need it?
• If you answered “yes” to all of these, have you seen a doctor about it?
- If not, do so. It may be a treatable medical problem.
o If you can’t shower, do you use an alcoholic (or anti-bacterial?) spray on (rather than roll-on) deodorant do get rid of odour already there?
o Do you have an acne problem?
• Do you wash your face regularly?
• Have you seen a doctor about it?
- If not, do so. Again, it may be a treatable medical problem.
o Do you clean your teeth regularly, especially when going out or when you will be around other people?
o Are you conscious of when you haven’t cleaned your teeth, and take appropriate steps to avoid breathing on anyone?
•Chewing gum or simply keeping your distance are good starts.
o Do you have excessively or persistently bad breath?
• Have you seen a doctor about it?
- Guess what. Do so, it could be a treatable medical problem.
o Do you visit the dentist regularly?
o Have you had any work that needs to be done, done?
o Do you have particularly crooked teeth?
o Do you have particularly large teeth?
• It’s unlikely that you could do anything about this, but it’s worth being conscious of, though by no means self-conscious about.
o Do you have excessively stained teeth?
o Do you have excessively white teeth?
• I’m looking at you, So You Think You Can Dance Pirahna-Lady =.=
o Do you shave or pluck any facial hair?
• If not, is it deliberately styled (as opposed to growing any which-way), trimmed, kept clean, and otherwise carefully groomed?
• If you do, do you do so frequently enough to avoid excess stubble?
- Some people look quite good with stubble, but it’s not exactly pleasant for make-outs. Just something to keep in mind.
o (girls only) Do you shave your armpits regularly?
• This would be one of those “some like it, some hate it” ones.
o Do you shave your legs regularly?
o Do you have any skin conditions, especially visible ones?
• Are you getting treated for it?
o Do you spit when you talk?
o Do you avoid coughing, sneezing or breathing on people when you’re sick?
o Do you wash your hands after every trip to the toilet, and any other time they need it?
o Do you wipe the sweat off before shaking hands with someone?
o Do you pick your nose in public?
o Do your feet smell?
o If you wear something frequently or constantly – a hat, wrist band, etc. – do you wash it as often as you would any other item of clothing?
oDo you smoke?
• Do you avoid doing so around non-smokers?
• Do you wash your clothes etc. frequently to remove the cigarette smell?
• Do you chew gum afterwards?

Social Skills

o Are you conscious of other people’s personal space?
• Are you excessively conscious of your own?
o Do you “lurk”?
o If you are around when someone is occupied with something else, do you do something – make conversation, watch TV, draw, read, whatever – or do you just stand there and watch them?
• Oddly specific because based on personal experience.
o Are you capable of making conversation?
• If not, quick and dirty guide: ask questions that encourage more than a “yes” or “no” answer, and respond to questions with more than “yes” or “no”. Seek help, this is a very important skill to learn.
o Do you speak clearly?
• Do you speak too fast or too slow?
• Do you slur your words?
• Do you enunciate your words?
• Do you usually get the pronunciation right?
o Can you talk to persons of the opposite sex as you would anyone?
o Are you willing and able to approach others?
o Can you “take a hint”?
• Can you recognise when it is time to take your leave, or when someone wants you to stay, etc?
o Do you listen when other people talk?
o Do you meet people’s eyes when you talk to them?
o Do you need to make yourself stop staring at certain places?
o Do you stare?
o Do you take a genuine interest in what other people have to say?
o Are you articulate?
o Do you have a sense of humour?
• Do you really, or do you just think you’re hilarious?
o Do you have a reasonably broad knowledge in a range of interesting topics?
o Do you laugh too loud, or too readily, or strangely?
o Do you laugh at your own jokes?
• Do you have trouble finishing a joke because you’re laughing too hard at it?
o Do you talk too loud or too softly?
o Do you have a speech impediment?
• Obviously not something you’re likely to be able to fix, but it might be worth talking to a speech therapist if you haven’t already.
o Do you take into account the interest of your audience before telling a story or anecdote?
o Are you a good storyteller?
o Can you finish a story well?
o Can you tailor jokes and conversation to suit your audience?
o Do you, by design or accident, dominate any gathering or conversation?
o Do you get excessively agitated whenever someone expresses an opinion contrary to your own?
o Do you argue for the sake of argument?
o When you argue, do you listen, address your opponent’s points, make your own well thought-out and articulate, allow for the possibility of changing your own view, avoid personal attacks, and other things conductive to an enjoyable and constructive discussion?
o Do you know when to let a matter go?
o Are you honest but tactful when offering an opinion, advice, or criticism?
o Are you overeager to offer an opinion, advice or criticism?
o Do you try to convince people that you are smarter or more knowledgeable than you really are?
o Do you tend to show off your intelligence?
o Are you excessively boastful?
o Do you readily make your own physical, mental, emotional or other problems a topic of conversation?
• “Hi I’m bipolar.”
o Do you carry a chip on your shoulder and/or your problems on your back?
o Can you handle someone making a joke at your expense?
o Do you make too many jokes at the expense of others?
o Do you pick out one person to make fun of?
o Do you blame others when they take offence at what you meant to be a joke?
o Do you “suck up”, “brownnose” or otherwise try to get into someone’s favour?
o Are you condescending and/or patronising?
o Do you go out of your way to make people feel awkward?
o Are you conscious of what makes other people uncomfortable?
o When approaching someone, do you “sidle” and suddenly appear behind or beside them?
o Are you excessively physical and/or intimate?
o Are you excessively uncomfortable with human contact?
o Do you tend to insult or belittle other people’s lifestyles and/or beliefs?
o Do you consider others to be lesser than you, stupider than you, or otherwise beneath your notice?
o Do you treat others with contempt?
o Do you find yourself telling people to “grow up” a lot?
o Do other people tell you to “grow up” a lot?
o Are you miserly?
o Are you helpful?
o Do you say “please” and “thank you” and other basic manners?
o Can you accept compliments graciously?
o Do you expect compliments?
o Do you give compliments?
• Do you do so excessively, and/or creepily?
o Do you seek attention?
o Can you take “no” for an answer?
o Are you violent?
o Are you intimidating, deliberately or by virtue of build?
o Do you drink too much?
• Are you unpleasant – randy or angry or violent – when you drink?
o Do you take drugs, legal or otherwise?
• Are you, to put it bluntly, drugf***ed?

Aesthetics

o Do you have a hair style that suits you?
o Do you have your hair trimmed when it needs it?
o Do you wear cuts and colours that suit you?
o Do you dress appropriately to your shape and size?
o Do you have, and wear, at least some interesting clothes?
o Do you wear interesting combinations of clothes?
o Is everything you own brand-name?
o Are many of your clothes stained?
o Is your default facial expression any of the following: scowl, half-open dullard mouth, frown, frogface, piranha (see: woman on So You Think You Can Dance)?
o Do you wear too much makeup?
o Do you wear too little makeup?
o Do you have any particularly prominent and ugly moles?
o Do your glasses suit you?
o Do you wear clothing, shoes, etc. ridiculously oversized?
o Do you wear a belt if your pants require one?
o Do you regularly make fashion faux-pas (e.g. socks with sandals), that simply don’t look good?
o Do you clean your shoes?
o Do you polish shoes that require it occasionally?
o Do you replace or repair shoes or other clothing when necessary?
o Do you brush your hair?
o Do you wear excessive amounts of hair products?
o Do you wear excessive amounts of any product?
o Do you wear strong perfume/cologne?
o Do you wear nasty perfume/cologne?
o Do you have an unusually large number of piercings?
o Do you have an unusual lack of piercings?
o Do you adhere to an “alternative” or fringe fashion?
o Do you adhere to strict mainstream fashions?
o Do you have at least the basic idea of cooking and other housekeeping skills?
o Do you have basic table manners?
o Do you avoid showing off a spotty or hairy bikini line?
o Is your underwear, indeed, "under"?
o Do you wear pants hitched too high or too low?


As I said, this is just something to ponder, if you’re searching for a possible reason why you might be struggling to find a significant other. Think about who it is you’re being, when you’re “being yourself”, and whether that’s the you you want everyone to be seeing. All we can see is what you present to us, and first impressions really do matter.

What do you do if you fail like half of the questions?

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by inky13112

What do you do if you fail like half of the questions?

1. A lot of them are not pass/fail.
2. Try to improve yourself in such a manner as would have you feel improved.
You could also discuss any specific ones you have concerns about here.

Originally Posted by noparlpf

And what does interesting look like?

The only one who can answer that is you.

[rogueboy]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

High school was a manageable 3000. This is something like 25k. My only 300-level class is P-chem. I'm planning to check out clubs when those happen. And leaving my door open won't help much because I'm tucked wayyy in the corner of the top floor, by the fire escape. Very little traffic unless somebody starts burning down the building.

Well, you'll probably want a study group for pchem (even if you get it fairly well, studying and doing the homework with other people will help a LOT), which will help in getting to know people. My pchem study group consisted of about 15 of the 20 people in the class - we got to know each other fairly well.

And that's hardly an ideal place for traffic, but I can't imagine it would hurt to leave your door open. The door being open is an indication that you want to meet people, and if people are wandering around that area (either because their rooms are near yours or they're just wandering randomly), they'll at least have the option of saying hi. And once you meet one person, that'll simplify meeting more, as Serp suggested.

Originally Posted by inky13112

What do you do if you fail like half of the questions?

I'd say pick a few (2-3) to fix/change, and get those under control. As you fix them, pick others that you 'failed', and fix those. Limiting yourself to only a few things at a time will make it easier to work on changing those, as opposed to trying to fix a ton of things at once, which is likely to overwhelm anyone and cause you to give up.

There's also Serp's point about them not being pass/fail. Although, if you don't like the answer to a question, I suppose that could be construed as failing?

[Gitman00]

I have a thought or two about the so-called "friend-zone". I define it as the place you end up when you miss your "window of opportunity" upon meeting a person of the opposite sex that you're attracted to. If they see you as a friend and you want more, you've been friend-zoned. It's usually not intentional on the part of the person doing the zoning - it's just that they've subconsciously put you in the "friend" category of relationships.

When you first meet someone you're attracted to, there's a perception that you have to "close the deal," i.e. get a kiss and mutually decide to pursue a romance, within a certain timeframe. If that timeframe passes, you missed your chance and you're pushed to the friend zone. The "zone" part of the phrase came about because there's a further perception that once they've decided you're a friend, they'll never think of you as a love interest again. you're stuck in the "zone".

Obviously this isn't universally true, and plenty of friends become lovers, and vice-versa.

I may have more thoughts on this phenomenon after I do some more pondering.

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by Gitman00

It's usually not intentional on the part of the person doing the zoning - it's just that they've subconsciously put you in the "friend" category of relationships.

That's precisely my problem with it: that it's "they put me in this "friend-only" category" rather than just "they like me but are not interested in me romantically". They may just be different ways of saying the same thing, but I think that the former suggests some very unfortunate things about the psyche of anyone using it.