Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by inky13112

No, I just wish I'd known this years ago. My way of doing things has always been far stupider.

I'm almost scared to ask, but I feel compelled to anyway.

What were you doing?

[inky13112]

Usually something along the lines of awkwardly wait, then after an hourish conclude that it would be weird to call after having waited so long, so either continue to wait or conclude that oh well they must have something better to do.

Probably has something to do with the fact that I hate and fear talking on the phone.

[Mr. Mud]

Cool news dudes and dudettes, apparently my lady friend who I thought stood me up yesterday was actually in the midst of family strife (read: she went to visit her crazy parents that afternoon, and complications stemming from a massive fight prevented her attendance at dinner). She apologized profusely and offered to pay for my dinner tonight. So I guess all's well that ends well, assuming it ends well tonight.

I'll keep you posted

[sktarq]

Originally Posted by Castaras

Quick question for y'all, a curiosity thing rather than all the friendzone stuff that's bashing its head against the wall:

How do you tell the difference between crushing, love, and infatuation?

No hard and fast rules. Thus will be using lots of generalities

Crush. You like someone. Used when the crushor still has most of their wits about them.
Infatuation: Like a crush but g enerally more intense. The person invades your thoughts on a very regular basis. They can generally do little to no wrong. Butterflies in the GI track, causes racing heart etc. I use the feeling that the infatuator is acting rather like they are on a drug...with emotional highs and lows, illogical behavior etc. Can last well beyond the infatuatee responding (esp if it is a positive response).
Love. Different for everyone. But some common markers. Their happiness is just as if not more important than your own and for some is your own happiness. For me a kicker is when they become the most beautiful girl in the world to me at least. Usually includes a large amound of respect along with.


why do you ask?

[Herpestidae]

Originally Posted by Castaras

How do you tell the difference between crushing, love, and infatuation?

A crush= attraction. Whether it's their persona, their body, their mind, wou want to be near them and see them as a potential mate.

infatuation- A crush that stops you from seeing their faults.

Love- Realizing that you're still crushing despite their faults.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mud

Cool news dudes and dudettes, apparently my lady friend who I thought stood me up yesterday was actually in the midst of family strife (read: she went to visit her crazy parents that afternoon, and complications stemming from a massive fight prevented her attendance at dinner). She apologized profusely and offered to pay for my dinner tonight. So I guess all's well that ends well, assuming it ends well tonight.

I'll keep you posted

Hey, that's good. Hope things go well.

[Heliomance]

Originally Posted by Coidzor

What, like love, crushes, hatreds, people who we hate but would hate-sex, family, platonic friends we view as family-like? Just how we'd arrange such things in general or more how our own personal map would look?

I don't understand the concept of hate-sex.

Originally Posted by Reluctance

Speaking as a boy

...

Love: What you say to a woman when when you want to use a different orifice.

I'm really quite offended that you prefaced that with "speaking as a boy". Thank you for contributing to the stereotype that males are all shallow ********s only interested in sex.

[dehro]

Originally Posted by Heliomance

I'm really quite offended that you prefaced that with "speaking as a boy". Thank you for contributing to the stereotype that males are all shallow ********s only interested in sex.

I'm reasonably certain that his reply wasn't quite as serious as you seem to have taken it.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

A little thought exercise for you all. We've been rabbiting on about this "friendzone" thing for a good couple of pages now so I want to take the idea a step further.

Supposing humans came with a "map" of their emotional connections - what would it look like? Would it be a flat 2D map or some kind of 3D model similar to planetary orbits? What other zones would be on there apart from the previously mentioned one? How would a significant other appear on the map?

I'd be interested to know what you think.

Well, taking your planetary orbits analogy, a SO would appear as a binary star, which would subsequently alter the orbits of everything else.

Originally Posted by dehro

I'm reasonably certain that his reply wasn't quite as serious as you seem to have taken it.

I hope you're right.

[The Succubus]

Hmmmm, I'd actually see an SO as something more like Jupiter. A significant influence when you first come across it but it doesn't become a star until it's gathered a certain something that causes it to form into a star. Marriage would be your classical binary system.

A one night stand would would be something like a comet, flies brightly around the star very closely before shooting off into the distance again. Friends would be planets like Mars, Earth, Venus, Mercury. An ex....would be a black hole for most or a distant red supergiant that still provides a little warmth to the solar system.

The asteroid belt would be acquaintences and "oh yeah, him/her". Planetary moons would be family of friends or friends of friends.

The Friendzone....which spawned this whole thing. That would be Earth. Close enough to embrace the warmth of the star but too small to have a gravitational influence on the solar system as a whole.

The analogy needs work. =)

[blackfox]

Originally Posted by dehro

I'm reasonably certain that his reply wasn't quite as serious as you seem to have taken it.

Doesn't make it not mean. Though I was not offended, as such, once I realised it was intended as humor, I was quite annoyed.

[Reluctance]

Normally I don't like to kill jokes by explaining them, but to avoid this point becoming a theme, please also note whose psychological landscape I compared myself to in the second half of the post.

Besides, anybody with female friends knows that guys aren't only about sex. You haven't heard stories of girlfriends being turned down in favor of WoW?

(I kinda want to go semi-serious here and mention the Coolidge Effect. But let's just wiki that and not talk about it here. Again, not wanting it to become the page's theme.)

[Coidzor]

Originally Posted by Heliomance

I don't understand the concept of hate-sex.

I've only got the basics down from hearing about it from other people and fiction, I must admit. The closest I know of is from when I've been really angry and in a nasty fight with a lover and that's just made me want them all the more, which is more like... fighty-angry sex...

... *shrug*

Originally Posted by Heliomance

I'm really quite offended that you prefaced that with "speaking as a boy". Thank you for contributing to the stereotype that males are all shallow ********s only interested in sex.

Speaking as a man, I find it sometimes necessary to identify my gender when people are too bedazzled by my beard to find the strength in their knees to listen to me.
This reminds me, I need to go get a new beard grooming kit, haha. Which basically means a small comb.

I read it as more disdainful of the idea of love, in the same vein as noparlpf's assertion that it's just a lie or delusion, if I was reading that statement correctly, but with more jocularity. And jocularity is in keeping with invoking the identity of the boy rather than the man persona. Though I suppose one could also decide to read social commentary about the behavior of others that one has observed...

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Heliomance

I don't understand the concept of hate-sex.

Well sex is what you do when a person has traits you want in your babies. That's the evolutionary perspective on sexual taste. So I guess some people just want to hate their babies?
I think it makes less sense to me than to you because I'm coming at the problem from the wrong direction. I barely understand the concept of love-sex.

Originally Posted by Coidzor

I've only got the basics down from hearing about it from other people and fiction, I must admit. The closest I know of is from when I've been really angry and in a nasty fight with a lover and that's just made me want them all the more, which is more like... fighty-angry sex...

... *shrug*

I have heard rumours of a thing called "angry sex". Which still doesn't make sense to me. Unless maybe because the anger makes you feel slightly more distant from them, the anger actually acts as an obstacle for your romance, and adversity is shown to heighten romance.
Also, I think I read that both anger and romance are associated with lower levels of serotonin in the brain. So maybe that would have something to do with it.

Speaking as a man, I find it sometimes necessary to identify my gender when people are too bedazzled by my beard to find the strength in their knees to listen to me.
This reminds me, I need to go get a new beard grooming kit, haha. Which basically means a small comb.

I read it as more disdainful of the idea of love, in the same vein as noparlpf's assertion that it's just a lie or delusion, if I was reading that statement correctly, but with more jocularity. And jocularity is in keeping with invoking the identity of the boy rather than the man persona. Though I suppose one could also decide to read social commentary about the behavior of others that one has observed...

My mutton chops are coming along nicely. I need a top hat and a monocle. (The monocle would actually be really nice, because the astigmatism in my right eye is too minor to be corrected by contacts just because of how contacts work, so a monocle would make things a smidge clearer.)
My response was based on personal experience, phrased jokingly. See, I keep hearing about all these feelings that I have very few personal interactions with.

[Reluctance]

Serious answer time.

People are pretty bad at realizing just what's causing their feelings. Anger is a form of arousal, in the sense of "arousal" that means "heightened emotions and physiological reaction". The same processes that make it a good idea to go out and do something physical on a date make it easy for rage to melt into lust. There might also be a bit of sex-dominance at play.

[ForzaFiori]

Ill try to explain hate sex (or angry sex, which is what it usually is really) without straying too far from PG:

Step 1) Anger floods your body with chemicals that give you an energy boost, an increased heart rate, higher blood pressure, etc. Sound similar to any other feelings? It turns out that anger is pretty much the same reaction as arousal.

Step 2) Anger tends to center your focus on the person your angry at, so they're the center of attention. If you find the person attractive, it can distract you from the anger, even if you don't mean to

Step 3) getting down and dirty really hard and nasty is something that REALLY works to burn off that anger. Also, though most people probably won't admit it, I've found very few people that don't enjoy what we in the south call "pig-****ing", as opposed to "making love", if you will. Being angry gives you an excuse to act a way that you wouldn't normally for fear of being called weird or different. Also, you may care less about accidentally hurting the person, since your angry at them.

Step 4) Profit. (well, the REAL profit was step 3)

[Form]

Hate-sex/angry-sex sounds like an interesting concept. I'm curious as to what it would feel like.

I think it's something I should try one day if I ever get the chance.

[Castaras]

Hate-sex less good. Angry-sex more good. At least, Angry-sex is good when you're angry at something other than the person you're sexing. Really helps relieve stress and feel better.

[Morph Bark]

Originally Posted by Form

Hate-sex/angry-sex sounds like an interesting concept. I'm curious as to what it would feel like.

I think it's something I should try one day if I ever get the chance.

Unintentionally (at the moment), of course.



Whelp, it looks like I'll be going on a first date of sorts tomorrow evening. I know this girl from back in high school and archery competitions and talked with her a few times back then about those things and anime, which we both like to watch. A few months ago she added me on Facebook and I didn't recognize her at first, since it's been 4 years since then and I didn't really hang out with her at school back then. I accepted her friend request because I saw she was a friend of my old Physics teacher and thus knew she was from the same highschool, so I figured "eh, prolly know her then, somehow". My memory is like a sieve and drops things pretty easily, but I at least knew she wasn't from my year, as I remembered everyone from my year. Nothing much happened until we ended up having an actual, somewhat long conversation in which at some point I had a big "OH YOU'RE THAT PERSON" moment.

Turns out we had both been to the Elf Fantasy Fair, the biggest fantasy fair in Europe, several times, managing to avoid one another since we always went on different days. So we ended up occassionally talking some more, before I finally met her again at my birthday party, where she stayed and we talked until after 3 AM. (Some other people also stayed around for longer, but by 2 AM they had gone to bed in the office room we had prepared for that for people who came from far away.) She convinced me to come along to an anime convention called Abunai, which we went to last weekend (me, her and her brother came along as well on Saturday and Sunday), after which we again ended up talking until late, sitting outside with some lemon candles lit to stave off mosquitos. The weekend before that we had watched some anime together at her house and also ended up talking very late (talking more than watching), and a few days after we had agreed to do that she invited me to have dinner with her family before watching anime on the day we agreed to.

So during the weekend at the con on the first day, when it was just the two of us, it turned out she hadn't seen the movie Brave yet, which she had been going on for a month that she wanted to see very much. I told her, "it's done then, we're going to see that next week, okay?" Then this Tuesday she contacts me on Facebook, telling me all the nearby theaters only have it in Dutch (and all but one in 3D). Long story short, we're going to take a detour to the city I went to university at until recently to watch the original, in 2D.

Oh yeah, I should probably add to this that I recently quit my studies I've been doing for 4 years and will be working for the next year to gather up enough funds to get back into a different study. I found that rather hard to get over at first, because I had just gotten the feeling I fit right into the bunch there, even if nearly everyone was quite different from me.

Which is why I'm rather glad that I've gained her as a new friend, though at the same time I also cannot help but wonder where this will be going. In some ways she's quite different from me, but aside from school stuff, taste in anime and taste in some foods, I don't really know her quite well yet. Plus, on the one hand I wouldn't want to lose her as a friend, since now I'm prettymuch back to a handful or two (barring LARP activities, which are few and far between) and I enjoy company a lot, albeit sparingly sometimes. On the other hand, I kinda get the feeling there may be something more here, but I'm rather bad at sensing that (the last time I met a girl who had feelings for me I didn't know until she told me, which was right after I told her I had feelings for her).

Anyway, right now I'm just keeping my fingers crossed I can get a better job than the one I got right now for the coming year, and maybe get Saturday the 15th off so I can go to the next Elf Fantasy Fair. I know my two best friends won't be going, but I may be able to convince some of the others from my regular DnD group. Or maybe I'll end up going together with her, who knows.

At the very least, I know I'll be enjoying the movie Brave tomorrow in good company.

Too bad for my DnD group that means DnD is scheduled for Saturday, meaning one or two of them are disabled from being present.


[/rant?over]

[The Succubus]

Originally Posted by Castaras

Hate-sex less good. Angry-sex more good. At least, Angry-sex is good when you're angry at something other than the person you're sexing. Really helps relieve stress and feel better.

A good example of hate-sex/angry-sex can be seen in the first & second series of Scrubs. Dr Cox absolutely loathes his ex-wife (initially) but that doesn't stop them getting intimate at times.

[snoopy13a]

Originally Posted by Morph Bark

Which is why I'm rather glad that I've gained her as a new friend, though at the same time I also cannot help but wonder where this will be going. In some ways she's quite different from me, but aside from school stuff, taste in anime and taste in some foods, I don't really know her quite well yet. Plus, on the one hand I wouldn't want to lose her as a friend, since now I'm prettymuch back to a handful or two (barring LARP activities, which are few and far between) and I enjoy company a lot, albeit sparingly sometimes. On the other hand, I kinda get the feeling there may be something more here, but I'm rather bad at sensing that (the last time I met a girl who had feelings for me I didn't know until she told me, which was right after I told her I had feelings for her).

Well, you both like: (1) archery, (2) anime, and (3) fantasy. That seems like quite a bit in common to me. Plus, from the tone of your post, it seems that she's the one who is kinda taking the lead. My hunch is that she's attracted in you.

[Heliomance]

Strange how feelings change. A month ago, looking at a picture of my then-girlfriend gave me a stupid small smile and made me really happy. Now it just makes me irritated. Ho hum.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Soooooooo ...

Spoiler

Was in a group setting with my friends, one of which is the girl I like. We were talking about superheroes and such. Got on to the topic of the recent Spideraman movie. Said I hadn't seen it yet. She said it was terribad. I said my nerdy friends like it, because they do. She casually said we could watch it together and she could point out all the reasons it was terribad. Would bringing this up as something the two of us should do a good idea?

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

Soooooooo ...

Spoiler

Was in a group setting with my friends, one of which is the girl I like. We were talking about superheroes and such. Got on to the topic of the recent Spideraman movie. Said I hadn't seen it yet. She said it was terribad. I said my nerdy friends like it, because they do. She casually said we could watch it together and she could point out all the reasons it was terribad. Would bringing this up as something the two of us should do be a good idea?

Seems like it would be.

[Castaras]

Originally Posted by Heliomance

Strange how feelings change. A month ago, looking at a picture of my then-girlfriend gave me a stupid small smile and made me really happy. Now it just makes me irritated. Ho hum.

For a year or so after I broke up with my first boyfriend, I couldn't look at photos of us without crying or getting close to crying. Second boyfriend, after I finally cut ties with him I couldn't look at any of his posts without feeling pissed off.

Feelings are wibbly wobbly. They'll likely change again later on. And again.

[The Succubus]

Originally Posted by Heliomance

Strange how feelings change. A month ago, looking at a picture of my then-girlfriend gave me a stupid small smile and made me really happy. Now it just makes me irritated. Ho hum.

Originally Posted by Castaras

For a year or so after I broke up with my first boyfriend, I couldn't look at photos of us without crying or getting close to crying. Second boyfriend, after I finally cut ties with him I couldn't look at any of his posts without feeling pissed off.

Feelings are wibbly wobbly. They'll likely change again later on. And again.

Sucks how one person can make your heart sing and then the next moment bring out the black clouds. I did a purge of 90% of my former gf's stuff and photos in my flat. I've kept just two things: an origami butterfly she made for me and a small crystal stone we found on the shores of a norweign lake.

These memories don't make me as happy as they once did.

[Form]

@AtleantanTroll: Sounds like she's already brought it up herself. Why haven't you gone for it yet? Just go and date her already!

Also, I've gotten consent to a second date, although actually planning it got pushed to somewhat longer term. I've also noticed I'm the one taking all the initiative, but as long as this is moving forward I'll just keep it up. I'm a little impatient, but I guess this is just the way these things go.

[Morph Bark]

Originally Posted by snoopy13a

Well, you both like: (1) archery, (2) anime, and (3) fantasy. That seems like quite a bit in common to me. Plus, from the tone of your post, it seems that she's the one who is kinda taking the lead. My hunch is that she's attracted in you.

Y'know, I hadn't looked at it that way yet. Huh, I guess you might be right. I just usually don't recognize those bits of things.


So... that sorta date thingy?

Spoiler

Anyway, so in my opinion things went well enough. I was more nervous at first than I was for my job interview I had in the morning (I wasn't all that nervous for that though). She picked me up and the first thing she noted was that I had put on the cloth bracelet thingy I'd gotten as proof of going to the Abunai con last weekend, which she had apparently done as well. We went to the train station, from where we went to the city we were going to the theater at (which is quite a bit away, but it was the closest theater that had the movie in English), from where we took the bus to the theater (we didn't have to pay for the train as she can travel for free on weekends and had a pass so I could travel for free with her this once). We ate pizza at a place just around the corner, which was pretty good. I paid for our tickets (a little unusual here, but she was driving and had helped me out with the train already) and we went inside. Before it began she talked about a movie called Legend Of The Guardians that she wanted to see that there was a poster of there, and told me a little about it, so now I'm curious for it as well. We didn't see a trailer of it though. The movie itself was pretty enjoyable, not a "igottaseethisigottaseethisyesyesyes" type, but I had expected that anyway and it was good nonetheless. I liked the parts with the bears and the king's personality. Afterwards we went home again and I wrapped my arm around her since it was cold and she huddled up a little to me. On the train I told her I had a really nice evening and gave her a small kiss on the cheek. When we got off and were walking to the car she suddenly pulled out some brownies wrapped in tin foil she had apparently made that morning, which really surprised me. They had nuts in them. Nomnomnom. We didn't finish them though, but got in the car pretty quick, as it was cold (plus I had a dry throat and the brownies were kinda dry too). She dropped me off at home, I thanked her for driving and that I thought it certainly was worth doing again. She then panicked a little over not having paid me back yet for the movie, to which I said it was nothing and she could just pay for the next time. We shook hands on it and I said "it's a deal, date, deal, whatever, take your pick", got off and had a good night's sleep to follow.

Oh, but first I called one of my friends to see what was up, because he'd called me several times during the movie apparently (of course I hadn't picked up). My dad had called twice before the movie to make sure I had adequate transportation, but I just kept telling him everything was already in order. I'm considering to just shut off my phone next time.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Originally Posted by Form

@AtleantanTroll: Sounds like she's already brought it up herself. Why haven't you gone for it yet? Just go and date her already!

Because I am a fool and a worrywort and it happened very late last night and I'm out of town for most the rest of the weekend. I did say we should sometime though. Yeah.

[Form]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

Because I am a fool and a worrywort and it happened very late last night and I'm out of town for most the rest of the weekend. I did say we should sometime though. Yeah.

Sounds like something you should follow up on, don't you think?