Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[Reluctance]

Originally Posted by Elm11

Hello all. I was hoping not to have to venture here, but I've been placed in a very serious situation concerning relationships, and I desperately need some help regarding as situation that doesn't appear to have an easy conclusion. Probably not for the faint of heart. It goes without saying that if you stumble across this, various real life friends who frequent this forum, I'd appreciate you respecting my privacy.

Spoiler

*snip*

Be nice. Really nice. I've noticed that when I want to get rid of someone, being a stand-up boyfriend is the best way to make sure they get bored and move on to someone more challenging.

Since that level of honesty will probably get people in a snit, you can go for the more board-friendly advice. Tell her that she's worrying you, and that she should take advantage of whatever mental health facilities the school offers. If she's out of school, look for free mental health services she can contact elsewhere. The point being that if she still wants to talk with you, she has to realize that she's crossing some lines and get professional help. That way, she either starts dealing with the problem, or she can avoid doing so in which case you're totally within your rights to unfriend her and not reward her actions with attention. "Make sure they get help" and "understand that they're hooked on you" are easy enough to grasp, and the rest comes from that.

[Elm11]

Originally Posted by Reluctance

Be nice. Really nice. I've noticed that when I want to get rid of someone, being a stand-up boyfriend is the best way to make sure they get bored and move on to someone more challenging.

Since that level of honesty will probably get people in a snit, you can go for the more board-friendly advice. Tell her that she's worrying you, and that she should take advantage of whatever mental health facilities the school offers. If she's out of school, look for free mental health services she can contact elsewhere. The point being that if she still wants to talk with you, she has to realize that she's crossing some lines and get professional help. That way, she either starts dealing with the problem, or she can avoid doing so in which case you're totally within your rights to unfriend her and not reward her actions with attention. "Make sure they get help" and "understand that they're hooked on you" are easy enough to grasp, and the rest comes from that.

Unfortunately I've already tried the first approach and it backfired royally. Like I said, she's completely obsessed with me - as in, ticks half the boxes on this page. If I'd read that a while ago, I'd have been smarter in the way I acted, since it seems to suit the situation surprisingly well.

I've also gone down the 'you're worrying me with how dependent you're coming across' line, and that seems to have been forgotten in short order. I'm not sure how coming out and telling her she's hooked on me will go, but it's probably a better shot than most other ideas.

EDIT: Grammar.

[Reluctance]

Repeat after me. "You're scaring me. If you want me to keep talking to you, seek professional help." Then be willing to follow up on that if she doesn't.

You can't and shouldn't be expected to fix this all on your own. All you can do is help connect her with somebody who is trained to handle this sort of thing, and be willing to extricate yourself if she's unwilling to get help.

[Sturmcrow]

Originally Posted by Sholos

Well, I met her online (OKCupid, to be precise) and she seems interesting enough. I'm just not feeling the same about her as I've felt about people in the past. Maybe I haven't given it enough time, but it just feels weird that I didn't meet her and have a mutual attraction grow over time. If that makes any sense. I don't know if I should give it more time or what. I am confused.

As for putting myself out there, pretty much the only things I do are still attend the two clubs I was in during college, so I'm a 27-year old meeting 18-21 year olds. Not great odds, but maybe something will happen.



That is random.

First, it never really feels the same as it does before.
Second, don't try to force anything if it will be it will be, if you don't feel the same as they do for you though, it might be time to move on.

[Sturmcrow]

Originally Posted by Reluctance

Repeat after me. "You're scaring me. If you want me to keep talking to you, seek professional help." Then be willing to follow up on that if she doesn't.

You can't and shouldn't be expected to fix this all on your own. All you can do is help connect her with somebody who is trained to handle this sort of thing, and be willing to extricate yourself if she's unwilling to get help.

Seconded. This is sound advice. Do you have any mutual friends that could talk to her as well?

[Glass Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sturmcrow

Seconded. This is sound advice. Do you have any mutual friends that could talk to her as well?

This. Giving a heads-up to friends or trusted family members of hers may be a good idea.

[Serpentine]

Elm, you haven't actually said anything direct. You've just been dancing around not getting to the point and hoping she'll read your mind. My interpretation of her behaviour is that she sees you getting distant and (rightly) thinks she's losing you, so she's getting more intense in an attempt to get you back again.
You need to just man up and tell her you're breaking up with her. No "I want time alone", no "I want the relationship toned down", just a simple "Carol, I am breaking up with you. We are no longer in a relationship." THEN, as Reluctance so graciously allowed, you could direct her to some mental health services in her area to help her get through it in a healthy manner.
Have the guts to actually break up with the poor girl so she can know her behaviour is stalkery rather than concerned girlfriendy, then we can deal with any creeperness.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

Elm, you haven't actually said anything direct. You've just been dancing around not getting to the point and hoping she'll read your mind. My interpretation of her behaviour is that she sees you getting distant and (rightly) thinks she's losing you, so she's getting more intense in an attempt to get you back again.
You need to just man up and tell her you're breaking up with her. No "I want time alone", no "I want the relationship toned down", just a simple "Carol, I am breaking up with you. We are no longer in a relationship." THEN, as Reluctance so graciously allowed, you could direct her to some mental health services in her area to help her get through it in a healthy manner.
Have the guts to actually break up with the poor girl so she can know her behaviour is stalkery rather than concerned girlfriendy, then we can deal with any creeperness.

I'm going to agree with Serps here. Until you've directly broken up with her you can't tell her to get help.

[Karen Lynn]

Here I come.
Spoiled for length and some vulgarities.

Spoiler

Was dating a girl through part of high school, and can say I fell in love with her easily. We were good together, to ourselves, and to each other. I moved away for school, came back to town, and things were different. We were still romantic a bit, but not like before. I chalked that up to not seeing each other in a while.

Then I became a long haul truck driver. I'm gone for weeks, months at a time. I get a new place in town, and tell her I want to spend more time together. She says she'd like that. I get into town, she blows me off. I'm thinking no big deal, maybe she got called in to work. We hang out the next day. I tell her I've missed her, glad to see her again, and was offered a local job. We go out, nice little date, long walk by the river, having fun like old times. She seemed distant and cold to me, not welcoming a hug, and making it a point to avoid a kiss.

We stop at a store to grab some cortizone(bugs eat her alive), and get back to the car. Sitting there, I hear her phone vibrate, and glance down on reaction. Notice another guy texting her "I love you". I'm thinking, again, No big deal. Maybe she's got another guy after her. I always sent her that same message, and got a smiley face at most, no response more often.

She then spends three minutes replying to the text. As we get close to our normal meet up point, I ask calmly if she'd met anyone new.

"Yeah, there is this one guy I'm sort of seeing."

Just like that.

"But I really like hanging out with you. You're a great friend."

Yeah, wasn't even going to tell me she's seeing someone, if only as a way to get me to stop texting little "I love you"s and cute pics.

I got upset, and just cut the faux date right there. Went to the bar with some friends, and drank. Pissed and moaned, bitched and whined. Felt better the next day, told her how it made me feel with nice, clean, polite words and sentence structure. How it made me feel disrespected, played along. She said that she didn't know I was interested in her that way*. I tried keeping a smile on my face, but it hurts. It cut deep. I texted her a few minutes ago, just the classic "What's up?". "Not much. Shoe shopping for heels for a show with my boyfriend."

Like, now you know, I can tell you. That hurt more. Told her I couldn't keep pretending, that I felt strongly for her, and "being just friends isn't good enough. Goodbye."

"Ok. Bye."


Please tell me I handled that extremely poorly and ruined a great friendship over a perceived slight. All I've felt was a twisting void in my heart and the pit of my stomach every time I think of her going out with this guy who, a year ago, she said she couldn't see herself dating.

I would love to know I'm the one responsible so this mild temporary depression is at least entirely my fault.

*Really, she meant it. How the **** is a guy who says he loves you, would give up his career and work local to see you more, and gives up half his ****ing diet not interested?

Also, to answer a question from way earlier in the thread,

23, been in several relationships, but only been in love twice. This post is regarding the second time.

[Serpentine]

So... Were you guys in a relationship? Not in a relationship? Did you think you were but she didn't in which case how? Were you going out but then broke up when you left? Just what sort of a relationship did you two have, there? Cuz the answer to your question pretty much depends on the answer to these ones.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk

Here I come.
Spoiled for length and some vulgarities.

Spoiler

Was dating a girl through part of high school, and can say I fell in love with her easily. We were good together, to ourselves, and to each other. I moved away for school, came back to town, and things were different. We were still romantic a bit, but not like before. I chalked that up to not seeing each other in a while.

Then I became a long haul truck driver. I'm gone for weeks, months at a time. I get a new place in town, and tell her I want to spend more time together. She says she'd like that. I get into town, she blows me off. I'm thinking no big deal, maybe she got called in to work. We hang out the next day. I tell her I've missed her, glad to see her again, and was offered a local job. We go out, nice little date, long walk by the river, having fun like old times. She seemed distant and cold to me, not welcoming a hug, and making it a point to avoid a kiss.

We stop at a store to grab some cortizone(bugs eat her alive), and get back to the car. Sitting there, I hear her phone vibrate, and glance down on reaction. Notice another guy texting her "I love you". I'm thinking, again, No big deal. Maybe she's got another guy after her. I always sent her that same message, and got a smiley face at most, no response more often.

She then spends three minutes replying to the text. As we get close to our normal meet up point, I ask calmly if she'd met anyone new.

"Yeah, there is this one guy I'm sort of seeing."

Just like that.

"But I really like hanging out with you. You're a great friend."

Yeah, wasn't even going to tell me she's seeing someone, if only as a way to get me to stop texting little "I love you"s and cute pics.

I got upset, and just cut the faux date right there. Went to the bar with some friends, and drank. Pissed and moaned, bitched and whined. Felt better the next day, told her how it made me feel with nice, clean, polite words and sentence structure. How it made me feel disrespected, played along. She said that she didn't know I was interested in her that way*. I tried keeping a smile on my face, but it hurts. It cut deep. I texted her a few minutes ago, just the classic "What's up?". "Not much. Shoe shopping for heels for a show with my boyfriend."

Like, now you know, I can tell you. That hurt more. Told her I couldn't keep pretending, that I felt strongly for her, and "being just friends isn't good enough. Goodbye."

"Ok. Bye."


Please tell me I handled that extremely poorly and ruined a great friendship over a perceived slight. All I've felt was a twisting void in my heart and the pit of my stomach every time I think of her going out with this guy who, a year ago, she said she couldn't see herself dating.

I would love to know I'm the one responsible so this mild temporary depression is at least entirely my fault.

*Really, she meant it. How the **** is a guy who says he loves you, would give up his career and work local to see you more, and gives up half his ****ing diet not interested?

Also, to answer a question from way earlier in the thread,

23, been in several relationships, but only been in love twice. This post is regarding the second time.

Huh. So before, you went on dates, held hands, kissed, and all that jazz, you thought you were dating, and she didn't thing you were dating?

[Karen Lynn]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

So... Were you guys in a relationship? Not in a relationship? Did you think you were but she didn't in which case how? Were you going out but then broke up when you left? Just what sort of a relationship did you two have, there? Cuz the answer to your question pretty much depends on the answer to these ones.

Before, yes. Not now. I thought the intent of going on a date was to start a relationship. We broke up when I left. We were close and intimate back then.

Originally Posted by noparlpf

Huh. So before, you went on dates, held hands, kissed, and all that jazz, you thought you were dating, and she didn't thing you were dating?

We both knew we were dating back then. Now, I thought we were going to rekindle it, and I was honest and direct in my intent.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk

Before, yes. Not now. I thought the intent of going on a date was to start a relationship. We broke up when I left. We were close and intimate back then.

We both knew we were dating back then. Now, I thought we were going to rekindle it, and I was honest and direct in my intent.

Ah, I see. Well, if you were clear in your intent, she's the one at fault for playing you along. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[AtlanteanTroll]

So, this is an odd one.

Spoiler

OK, so I have three friends. Let's call them Mary, John, and Haley. I like Haley. John and Haley used to date, but don't any more. Mary is a new girl, and because she's into similar stuff as Haley and I, she quickly joined our friend group. Mary and Haley are both bi, and Mary started flirting with Haley, and Haley just sort of played along with it. Mary and I were together in a cafe writing an essay when she told me she had figured out I like Haley, but that it was OK because she wasn't actually comfortable dating a girl even if she did like Haley (among some other things). She then started fooling around with John. I was talking with John later, alone, and he was saying how great Mary is. Mary was then hanging out with some other friends of mine, John, and Haley's when none of use were around. My friends have reported that Mary said what she was doing with John wasn't serious at all, and that it didn't actually mean anything.

I have two questions.

1: Should I tell John so that he doesn't end up getting hurt.
2: Should I continue to hang out with Mary? She's nice (she's insisting on making me a birthday cake and wants to take me to her youthgroup), but ever since I met her she's sent me bad vibes.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by AtlanteanTroll

So, this is an odd one.

Spoiler

OK, so I have three friends. Let's call them Mary, John, and Haley. I like Haley. John and Haley used to date, but don't any more. Mary is a new girl, and because she's into similar stuff as Haley and I, she quickly joined our friend group. Mary and Haley are both bi, and Haley started flirting with Haley, and Haley just sort of played along with it. Mary and I were together in a cafe writing an essay when she told me she had figured out I like Haley, but that it was OK because she wasn't actually comfortable dating a girl even if she did like Haley (among some other things). She then started fooling around with John. I was talking with John later, alone, and he was saying how great Mary is. Mary was then hanging out with some other friends of mine, John, and Haley's when none of use were around. My friends have reported that Mary said what she was doing with John wasn't serious at all, and that it didn't actually mean anything.

I have two questions.

1: Should I tell John so that he doesn't end up getting hurt.
2: Should I continue to hang out with Mary? She's nice (she's insisting on making me a birthday cake and wants to take me to her youthgroup), but ever since I met her she's sent me bad vibes.

Mildly confused over bolded bit, but I think I got it.
Hmm...I'd say not to tell John right away because it's possible that you have a game of telephone going on here and didn't get an accurate report. Or tell him that you heard something and he should talk to her. I'm not really sure.
For #2, I'd say that if you enjoy her company, you should hang out with her until everything blows up in a huge cloud of adolescent drama. (That's what I did in high school, anyway.)

[AtlanteanTroll]

I hope it's just a big game of telephone ... Also, fixed the mistake.

[Lord Loss]

I'd say not to tell John anything unless he asks, for now at least. When you have more information you can figure out what you want to do based on that.

As for number 2, norparlpf nailed it. For number one as well, actually...

[Herpestidae]

Well, time to toss my hat into the "weird situations" ring. I'm not really seeking advice, I'm just venting, but If you have any comments, I'd appreciate them anyway.

Spoiler

I have two friends: Tia* and Kevin.* We're all on choir together. Kevin and I have been tongue-in-cheek rivals since he joined. We're always trying to outdo each other, ragging on each other, and basically being jerks, but it's all in a respectful sort of way.

Problem is, we both like Tia.

Honestly, Tia and I started out a bit in opposition (Read: Our first encounter involved me calling her names [jokingly, but she didn't know] and our second had her slapping me in the face after I messed with her hair), but months of choir and group Bible Study and other such things (and the knowledge that she's an anime fan) have made us pretty close. And starting at the beginning of summer, I began to court her, so to speak. There were gifts and hugs and chaste kisses, all initiated by me with her not complaining. But since I'm known as a very touchy-feely kind of guy, I talked with her Friday past (Shooing away Kevin, even) so she knew I was being serious about pursuing her. Suffice it to say that she'd love to go out with me... if I'm still interested in a few months when she feels ready to get back on the dating scene (Long story). But we're all cool. The three of us even had a whole discussion about the Power Creep in various long-running anime series on Sunday, and she even made references to how I feel about her.

Then there's this girl Clara* who's been my friend for years, but her family doesn't come to church often enough for us to hang out regularly. When we go on church trips and such, she's usually there, and she practically glues herself to me when she has the chance. That being said, She's... incredibly socially awkward. Mainly it has to do with an obvious flaw that she's really self-conscious about, but she has no idea how to talk to people, mostly due to said obvious flaw. I started hanging out with her more out of empathy than anything else (I know what it's like to be the awkward guy in the room, and I still haven't broken out of that just yet), but she's actually a very interesting person and we have a lot in common. I'm afraid that she actually "feels some type of way" about me. I mean, she gave me her tumblr username. Nobody gives real-life people their tumblr name. I'm figuring out how to bring it up without being blunt about it.

*Name Changed

[Coidzor]

Chaste kisses? Really going to go with that one, eh?

Originally Posted by Herpestidae

Nobody gives real-life people their tumblr name. I'm figuring out how to bring it up without being blunt about it.

Oh? I'd better go tell my friends who've found and followed one another on Tumblr that they're doing it wrong then.

[noparlpf]

I don't get "chaste kisses". To me, kissing seems like a thing one does only with a very intimate loved one. But I'm weird.

[Herpestidae]

The chasteness of a kiss is determined by three factors:
Location. A kiss on the forehead is different from a French kiss is different from a kiss on the neck.
Duration. A .5-second peck is friendly. A drawn-out 5 or 6-second smooch is flirty.
Cultural mores. It's not uncommon where I'm from for girls to kiss their friends, guy or girl, on the cheek or even on the side of the mouth as a simple greeting. Kind of like how bonobos have all sorts of sexual bidness going down on a regular basis.

And the tumblr thing has more to do with what kind of blog you have. IE if you have ever used the word "feels" and not as a verb... NOBODY you know IRL is getting anywhere near your blog unless they're also rabid fans of whatever gave you those feels.

[dehro]

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

This. Giving a heads-up to friends or trusted family members of hers may be a good idea.

seconded..also, yes, dump her. in no uncertain terms if you think she wouldn't "get it" otherwise.

Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk

Before, yes. Not now. I thought the intent of going on a date was to start a relationship. We broke up when I left. We were close and intimate back then.



We both knew we were dating back then. Now, I thought we were going to rekindle it, and I was honest and direct in my intent.

you broke up and moved away.. she moved on and you did not. it's sad, but you're better off cutting relations if it makes you hurt.. who knows..maybe one day you'll meet again as friends.. right now distance is probably the best thing.

@AtlanteanTroll
hearsay and second hand information are the worst possible things to act on.
90% of the morons who go on talk shows for paternity tests and lie detectors () go there because of hearsay and friends interference.. however well meant it may be.
yes, I realize I'm not doing you a favour comparing you to imbred numbnuts who can't tell that when they're both as white as can be, having a thoroughly black son might be a sign of foul play... but you get my point.

[noparlpf]

Originally Posted by Herpestidae

The chasteness of a kiss is determined by three factors:
Location. A kiss on the forehead is different from a French kiss is different from a kiss on the neck.
Duration. A .5-second peck is friendly. A drawn-out 5 or 6-second smooch is flirty.
Cultural mores. It's not uncommon where I'm from for girls to kiss their friends, guy or girl, on the cheek or even on the side of the mouth as a simple greeting. Kind of like how bonobos have all sorts of sexual bidness going down on a regular basis.

Five or six seconds sounds like more than "flirty" to me. But okay.


AtlanteanTroll: I think another option would be to ask whatserface directly if what you heard is accurate.

[AtlanteanTroll]

I suppose so, but I'm not really the confrontational type. I think I'm just going to see how this whole thing goes for a bit longer.

[The Succubus]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

Five or six seconds sounds like more than "flirty" to me. But okay.

Well, if someone wants to find me a pretty girl and a stopwatch, I'd be more than happy to research this for you.

[dehro]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

Well, if someone wants to find me a pretty girl and a stopwatch, I'd be more than happy to research this for you.

I have a stopwatch

[Pheehelm]

I'm thinking after 5-6 seconds you've lost plausible deniability, which is a defining element of "flirty."

[Herpestidae]

Originally Posted by Pheehelm

I'm thinking after 5-6 seconds you've lost plausible deniability, which is a defining element of "flirty."

Here's the thing, though:

Originally Posted by Herpestidae

...Cultural mores....

[Sholos]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

Well, if someone wants to find me a pretty girl and a stopwatch, I'd be more than happy to research this for you.

Need more than one data point, too, so I selflessly volunteer as another research participant.

[noparlpf]

My version of flirting is apparently just acting normally. Then for some reason girls fall for me. It's annoying.


Edit: This conversation ended a bit back, but I saw this today:

Spoiler