Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[Erloas]

Ok, so I rewrote everything to try and change the tone. I *think* most of it is better now, but I still forgot a few things and there were a couple things I thought I wanted to say but couldn't find a good way of saying them.
I updated it last night but couldn't post here because the server seemed to be down.
The whole what I'm like, as opposed to what I do, thing is hard. I'm not sure how to say any of that without it basically sounding like me saying "I'm great" without anything to back it up.

Spoiler

I've spent a lot of time getting in shape this last year and it has definitely given me a new appreciation for being outside and being active and for life in general. I'm currently regularly taking classes at the gym, as well as running and I'll be cycling more as the weather gets better. I also love to ski, though I never seem to make it onto the mountain as much as I would like (but is there ever enough?).
I'm sure there are a lot of other activities I would enjoy doing, I just haven't found them yet.
I would like to find someone else that likes being outdoors and active, doing something I already enjoy doing or introducing me to new things.
I also enjoy camping and hiking, I have a few places I really like but I know there is a lot of this state and the surrounding areas that I should see but haven't yet (blaming my parents for that, they got out of camping about the time I was old enough to really start learning the areas). I really want get out to more new places but I don't have anyone to go with.

I also fish quite a bit. I've mostly been fishing from a boat lately but I really need to learn jigging. I also flyfish some, but I've got a lot of learning left to do there too.

I also enjoy the SCA. I've meet people from all over the world doing SCA and I've made some very good friends because of it. Its not very well known around here though, and a bit hard to explain in this format, so if you want to know more just ask.

When I'm not exercising I'm usually at home or visiting with friends, occasionally playing games (of various sorts), reading, or doing hobbies and generally just relaxing. Generally staying rather low-key.

What I'm looking for is someone that I can just be myself with. Someone that is a friend, and that knows how to treat other people. Someone that can think for themselves and is strong and practical.

[Chen]

Originally Posted by Erloas

When I'm not exercising I'm usually at home or visiting with friends, occasionally playing games (of various sorts), reading, or doing hobbies and generally just relaxing. Generally staying rather low-key.

What I'm looking for is someone that I can just be myself with. Someone that is a friend, and that knows how to treat other people. Someone that can think for themselves and is strong and practical.

These last two paragraphs seem off to me. The first one seems to imply you're always exercising. I would remove the "When I'm not exercising part" and just say I enjoy hanging out with friends, reading etc. Saying you enjoy "hobbies" is pretty vague too.

The last paragraph to me just seems like the standard generic thing everyone has in their profile that doesn't really say much. You're looking for a good person. Everyone is. It just seems trite to me.

[Erloas]

Originally Posted by Chen

These last two paragraphs seem off to me. The first one seems to imply you're always exercising. I would remove the "When I'm not exercising part" and just say I enjoy hanging out with friends, reading etc. Saying you enjoy "hobbies" is pretty vague too.

The last paragraph to me just seems like the standard generic thing everyone has in their profile that doesn't really say much. You're looking for a good person. Everyone is. It just seems trite to me.

Well I am actually kind of always exercising. I spend at least 3 weekdays a week at the gym for 2 hours, with a 4th day where I should be doing fighter practice for the SCA (but doesn't consistently happen, and sometimes I do something else). So on most weekdays I have enough time to update a few things on EVE, get a snack, take care of the pets and go to the gym with enough time when I get home to get a shower and play a couple rounds of WOT before bed. Weekends are less time exercising and generally a decent amount of time not doing much.

It has actually gotten to the point where exercise of some form really is what I do with the majority of my free time.

And yeah, hobbies is fairly vague, but mostly on purpose, because some are going to be of no interest (and probably a negative) to 99% of women, and others are sort of covered in the general interest part of the profile later.

As for the last generic part... yeah, I know it is. But it kind of seemed like it needed to be there because *everyone* puts something like that there, maybe its just a sacred cow with no real meaning, but I'm not sure if it would be better if it were removed or not. Of course the first version (see last page) I had the same info in more of a ... sarcastic? acknowledging the cliche-ness? tone; I'm not sure if that worked better?
Considering that about 80% of the profiles I've looked at, those generic statements are *all* they have on their profile. So if thats what a women sees as important for them to say about themselves/what they are looking for, wouldn't it be to my advantage to match that idea/expectation?


What I think should be added, but not really sure how: That I like kids and get along well with most of them (key point to most women my age as they all seem to have kids). That I'm smart; which can mean a lot of things really, but practical, level headed, think through a lot of problems, solve problems for fun, like to try and fix things, and like making things as opposed to buying when its practical. That I'm thoughtful and considerate and enjoy helping other people (on a personal level, I'm not much for volunteering).
And the other part would be... that I am a geek or nerd (definition isn't clear, probably both) but I'm not sure how to hint at that without negatively affecting my chances, as the cross between athletic/outdoors types and geeks is pretty small (especially around here).

[Chen]

Originally Posted by Erloas

Well I am actually kind of always exercising. I spend at least 3 weekdays a week at the gym for 2 hours, with a 4th day where I should be doing fighter practice for the SCA (but doesn't consistently happen, and sometimes I do something else). So on most weekdays I have enough time to update a few things on EVE, get a snack, take care of the pets and go to the gym with enough time when I get home to get a shower and play a couple rounds of WOT before bed. Weekends are less time exercising and generally a decent amount of time not doing much.

It has actually gotten to the point where exercise of some form really is what I do with the majority of my free time.

Might be something to mention more accurately then. It kind of came out of the blue when reading that paragraph.

What I think should be added, but not really sure how: That I like kids and get along well with most of them (key point to most women my age as they all seem to have kids). That I'm smart; which can mean a lot of things really, but practical, level headed, think through a lot of problems, solve problems for fun, like to try and fix things, and like making things as opposed to buying when its practical. That I'm thoughtful and considerate and enjoy helping other people (on a personal level, I'm not much for volunteering).
And the other part would be... that I am a geek or nerd (definition isn't clear, probably both) but I'm not sure how to hint at that without negatively affecting my chances, as the cross between athletic/outdoors types and geeks is pretty small (especially around here).

Thing is all the stuff that says you're thoughtful, considerate and such just seem like bull**** on a dating site. No one is going to come out and say they're NOT considerate or thoughtful so I'm not sure how much that adds to things.

Hiding the geek/nerd thing (as you mentioned with your hobbies) is probably NOT a good thing. Yes you may drive people away from your profile, but those are not the people you want to be with anyway. Imagine you like playing Dungeons and Dragons. You don't want to say this so you don't come off as a nerd. At some point, unless you're completely willing to give up the hobby, its going to come out. This is something that I imagine both sides would want to be up front about. What if that's a dealbreaker for some people? Instead of finding it out to begin with you leave it until later where its much more painful/difficult to break things up.

If the overall point is to find someone who shares your interests (rather than just say random flings) its usually a good idea to be up front about them. Lying about things you feel will be negative (or at least omitting them) will come and bite you later. Its essentially a bait and switch and you can imagine people getting upset about things like that.

[MountainKing]

As a sort of soft counter to what Chen has said, if you wind up with a person who's going to flip their lid over a few geeky hobbies, it's going to be fairly obvious fairly early. It's a simple task to mention nerdery with a sidelong comment, and gauge the person's reaction from there.

While we're at it, the only kind of person that I personally can think of that would react vehemently to things like D&D playing, when they didn't know about beforehand, are really, REALLY "preppy" (need a better word here, let's crowd-source it) people, or like... super hard-lining, rabid fundamentalists. The kind that post videos about the evils of Minecraft.

[Chen]

Originally Posted by MountainKing

As a sort of soft counter to what Chen has said, if you wind up with a person who's going to flip their lid over a few geeky hobbies, it's going to be fairly obvious fairly early. It's a simple task to mention nerdery with a sidelong comment, and gauge the person's reaction from there.

While we're at it, the only kind of person that I personally can think of that would react vehemently to things like D&D playing, when they didn't know about beforehand, are really, REALLY "preppy" (need a better word here, let's crowd-source it) people, or like... super hard-lining, rabid fundamentalists. The kind that post videos about the evils of Minecraft.

It doesn't need to be vehemently. I play a lot of video games. On the weekends, after work. It takes up a good amount of time. If that was something that I hid from a profile I could see it easily being an issue with some relationships. There's making yourself look attractive on a dating site versus hiding things that are a normal part of what you do. Look if you're just looking for casual sex/flings then fine hide all you want. If you're looking for a longer term relationship and the like it doesn't make sense to hide these things. Clearly you need to be careful in how you word things so that people don't mis-interpret what you say as being worse than it is, but its better than just bringing it up later.

[Reluctance]

The SCA. If you're a ren faire dweeb, you're in for a treat. Your wording would probably be a little different, but calling it "hard to explain" falls into a similar camp as "I make my own computers". Anyone who knows, knows. Anyone who's curious can ask. Your goal is to open channels for conversation, not tie them off.

The thing with being a geek, that's a presentation issue. It's not something to hide, but at the same time, be mindful your word count; if your profile is all internet memes and video game references, it's not an unreasonable assumption that you receive no sunlight and spend far too much time basking in your monitor's glow. Mention geeky hobbies, don't go on too long unless they really are that central to your identity, let people draw their own conclusions. Think the difference between a woman who mentions her kid(s) in interesting, contextually appropriate ways vs. one who goes on endlessly about how they're her light and her life. (Hint: One should cause you to leave a cartoonlike cloud where you used to be, and possibly your silhouette smashed out through several nearby walls.)

Don't think that just because everybody else puts something that it's mandatory. Being savvy enough to understand and undermine the cliche earns you many more points than buying into it. Take it from anyone with any real success; standing out is a good thing. If you roll your eyes seeing the same stupid thing time after time, other people will feel the same way. Being non-stereotypical and not-boring will earn you brownie points.

[Erloas]

Well I think its more of an issue of getting someone warmed up to the idea of something they don't know about. Its going to take a bit of time and the better they know you the easier it is. There is also the simple fact that not everything you do has to be done with the other person, your bound to have a few different tastes in some things.
The fact that they even have terms like "Hunter's Widow" shows that not all activities are equally shared. Which I think is kind of the equivalent here, though probably a poor analogy for this audience.

And the more I think about it, the more I think I don't need to add anything more. I've got a few of the things directly or indirectly mentioned, and any more its not a huge part of my life anyway, so I'm probably good there.

I guess the last thing is to figure out if I'm going to change anything for the who I am (as opposed to what I do) thing, which I'm not sure if there is anything I can really say there. And should I put anything for who I'm looking for? Seeing as I'm probably going to be making first contact almost all the time, the fact that I'm messaging them at all would imply that they at least somewhat fit what I'm looking for.

So other then the last two bits, overall it seemed pretty good?

[MountainKing]

I'm not saying anyone should hide anything, but I do think it's important to pick and choose when you present some things. I mean, you could easily have people who make snap judgements about you based on your hobbies, without even bothering to get to know you. All things being revealed in good time, that's the way I suggest myself. I mean, everyone judges the people around them; it's a subconscious, automatic thing that humans do. Our brains assess the information given to us and puts it into boxes automatically; that's why we have to make a point of NOT making judgements quickly.

With the videogames on the weekend example, sure, you do it now, but what if you were to come into a relationship of some sort? Would you still be making the choice to dedicate your spare time to videogames, leaving the relationship cold? Or would you change your schedule a bit, maybe work the video games in some other time? I mean, adding people to the equation makes a schedule/plan all manner of unruly. I'd think it'd be kinda hard to say if those weekend gaming sessions would stay where they are. I mean, unless you're really dedicated to that particular thing. Then, I guess it makes sense, but... I dunno. I guess that's just not me, so it's harder for me to see it.

[ForzaFiori]

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting? Not including a text so she'll know who you are/have your number as well. I met an awesome girl today and don't wanna screw things up by seeming too desperate, or uninterested...

[Pheehelm]

From what I gather, non-crazy girls don't sit by their phone with a stopwatch ready to say "wow, only sixteen hours and nine minutes. I could never date this guy, he's so obviously desperate/uninterested."

More on this subject here. For my part, I'm not sure what good any answer other than "when you're ready to call/text her" would accomplish.

[noparlpf]

You know how people think it's kind of creepy if you answer texts immediately? What if you just keep your phone on hand and answer texts immediately so as not to forget between when the text comes in and whenever later happens to be? 'Cause that's me.

[MountainKing]

Originally Posted by ForzaFiori

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting? Not including a text so she'll know who you are/have your number as well. I met an awesome girl today and don't wanna screw things up by seeming too desperate, or uninterested...

Eh, depends. Did she seem like the kind of girl who'd be happy to hear from you? Was she distant? Normally, I'd say a day or so; as a general rule, not on the same day. However, at the end of the day, it comes down to the person. Go, go first impression!

Originally Posted by noparlpf

You know how people think it's kind of creepy if you answer texts immediately? What if you just keep your phone on hand and answer texts immediately so as not to forget between when the text comes in and whenever later happens to be? 'Cause that's me.

Crap. I'm creepy too, then. I basically don't have anyone that I talk to, though, so... I mean, answering a text immediately is basically the easiest thing ever.

[Glass Mouse]

Originally Posted by noparlpf

You know how people think it's kind of creepy if you answer texts immediately? What if you just keep your phone on hand and answer texts immediately so as not to forget between when the text comes in and whenever later happens to be? 'Cause that's me.

Wait, that's creepy? I don't know anyone who thinks that's creepy. Generally, everyone I know appreciate a quick reply.

[noparlpf]

It really is pretty easy. That's why texting exists--it's easier than calling and talking.
And I don't text anymore, but I did back in high school when there was cell service and a social life.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

Wait, that's creepy? I don't know anyone who thinks that's creepy. Generally, everyone I know appreciate a quick reply.

I dunno about creepy exactly. I'm not good at converting thoughts to words. Private language theory and whatnot.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.

Spoiler

My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

[Grinner]

Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.

Spoiler

My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

Yeah, that sounds exactly like it.

[Reluctance]

Your friend sounds emotionally unwell.

Still, you have both the right and the responsibility to give her an ultimatum. If she truly values you and your friendship, she'll go and get professional help. If she doesn't think you're worth doing that much for, that should tell you everything you need to know.

[dehro]

Originally Posted by ForzaFiori

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting? Not including a text so she'll know who you are/have your number as well. I met an awesome girl today and don't wanna screw things up by seeming too desperate, or uninterested...

how about "wait until you have something interesting (to her) to say?" calling just to hear her voice is romantic but not cool on a first approach. calling because you've found/bumped into something funny or something you know might interests her and want to share it with her thereby neatly giving you a reason to call her and her a reason to want to hear it (not to mention potentially being grateful) is entirely positive and doesn't have any specific timetable to take into account. timing is irrelevant as long as the call/text is a good one.
examples. I once texted a girl right after having left her presence because something funny had happened right after it. she had a laugh and all was well. another time I texted a girl the morning after we met thanking her for the time together. and yet another time I did so whilst I was driving home. what's the difference? different vibe, different girls, different situations.
there just isn't a single answer... as long as what you text or say is appropriate for the stage of your relationship with her.
I would advise against sending her a picture of your genitals. I once met this guy who was totally baffled by the fact that the girl he liked wouldn't appreciate him doing that. the only reason I didn't smack him in the head is because he was drunk and I wasn't sure that he was being serious.

[Frozen_Feet]

Originally Posted by ForzaFiori

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting?

My own advice would be "when you have something to say". I only text if I have some interesting new thing to share with them. I only call if I'm about to ask them for a date, which also means I already have a good picture where I want to take them and when.

[fergo]

Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.

Spoiler

My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

I agree with Reluctance. She seems to be taking you for granted, and it seems to me all you can do is tell her so .

But the only solution, it seems, is to try and get her to understand that she may need professional help, especially if she gets all suicidal every time you try and stand up to her.

[dehro]

Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.

Spoiler

snip

I'm having a hard time not to get mad at you. the only reason I don't, is that I've been there, to a degree.

the fact is you're both leeching off one another.
you're emotionally dependent on a high maintenance self centered twit.
you're as much to blame as she is...because you let her do what she does and treat you like your life revolves around her...which it pretty much does, by the way you write.
find a hobby that doesn't involve her, don't leave your boyfriends because of her, stop checking your phone for her calls. you're not in love with her (right?), she shouldn't have the hold she has on your life. especially so if she's as inconstant and selfabsorbed as you describe her. when she pulls a drama queen act, call her out on it and tell her to get over herself. she doesn't need you holding her hand every time she finds anything objectionable in her life.
helping out a friend is all well and cool, but if my best friend calls me at 2 am on a week-night it better be because he's in a car accident or he's suffered a loss in the family, or I'll tear his head off the next time I see him.
he knows that and so should your friend.
estabilish some boundaries. find stuff to do without her and if she gets mad about it tell her precisely why she has no right to be mad. and if she doesn't apologize..in words and actions..
well..then she's really not the friend to you that you think she is. maybe you're better off without her.

[absolmorph]

I asked a girl out tonight.
She's intelligent, interesting, fun, and a whole slew of things I find attractive. I had a crush on her soon after we met, but that got... suspended? I don't know how to describe it. The romantic feelings just sorta got set aside until something reminded me.
I talked to her for much longer than I'm normally interested in talking to people and still found myself wanting to talk more (despite knowing my voice was starting to give out).

She's moving to Switzerland in a few weeks. I knew this before asking her out.

I cannot help but strive for new levels of masochism...

EDIT: She said yes, in case anyone was wondering.

[Glass Mouse]

Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.

Spoiler

My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

Sounds like textbook emotional abuse. So very many red flags - not respecting your boundaries, playing blame games, hypocrisy, threat of suicide, searching for "proof"... all seriously unhealthy behaviours.

Try to check out this and this list of red flags. Both are for romantic relationships, but that only disqualifies a few of the behaviours.

As dehro points out, however, an abuser never stands alone. They need an enabler, and right now, that's you. I know it's hard, and I can't blame you for getting caught, but keep in mind that she's only doing this to you because you let her.
You can be rightfully mad at her, but please go into serious self-reflection mode and figure out why you let her abuse you like this. What does she fulfill in you? Why do you need that? Dehro mentions emotional dependence which may be part of an answer. Maybe you try to play white knight. Maybe you feel like you don't deserve better. You need to figure this out... if nothing else so you can avoid getting trapped in a similar relationship in the future.

One thing you may want to keep in mind: She is HER OWN responsibility! There is a very significant difference between helping someone and taking responsibility for their happiness. She needs to take the initiative and responsibility; you shouldn't be primus motor in keeping her well or, worse, alive.
I don't know how much of a factor this is, but her problems sound like a big factor, considering you started your tale by mentioning it. They are not an excuse, they are not your responsibility.


Also... She won't realize your friend-love without serious therapeutic help. In all probability, she doesn't truly understand the concept of friend-love, or it's not nearly enough. Something is wrong with her self-perception and her relationship to the world, and that excludes an understanding of real friends.
Maybe putting your foot down will be a wake-up call. But if it isn't, or she refuses to see a therapist, you need to withdraw.

Originally Posted by dehro

I would advise against sending her a picture of your genitals. I once met this guy who was totally baffled by the fact that the girl he liked wouldn't appreciate him doing that. the only reason I didn't smack him in the head is because he was drunk and I wasn't sure that he was being serious.

I just... what.

Thanks for starting my day with a laugh, dehro!

Originally Posted by absolmorph

I asked a girl out tonight.
She's intelligent, interesting, fun, and a whole slew of things I find attractive. I had a crush on her soon after we met, but that got... suspended? I don't know how to describe it. The romantic feelings just sorta got set aside until something reminded me.
I talked to her for much longer than I'm normally interested in talking to people and still found myself wanting to talk more (despite knowing my voice was starting to give out).

She's moving to Switzerland in a few weeks. I knew this before asking her out.

I cannot help but strive for new levels of masochism...

EDIT: She said yes, in case anyone was wondering.

Well... Sounds like you can have a good thing for a few weeks, at least. Hope it'll be enjoyable for as long as it lasts

[dehro]

Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

Thanks for starting my day with a laugh, dehro!

true story!

[rogueboy]

I'm not going to say much about the whole emotional abuse thing aside from agreeing with them, because others have said it better than I could.

Originally Posted by dehro

helping out a friend is all well and cool, but if my best friend calls me at 2 am on a week-night it better be because he's in a car accident or he's suffered a loss in the family, or I'll tear his head off the next time I see him.
he knows that and so should your friend.

To be fair, I'd argue that (major) positive things are acceptable at weird hours, too. Example: A really good friend of mine called me at 1-2 am (shortly after I moved 3 times zones ahead, so that contributed to it) to tell me that she had just gotten engaged. I may have been asleep and needing to get up at 6 the next morning, but I'm still glad she called me to tell me that. Could it have waiting? Yeah, but it was a big enough thing that I can't blame her for wanting to share it sooner, and I was never upset with her for waking me, given why she did so.

[dehro]

Originally Posted by rogueboy

I'm not going to say much about the whole emotional abuse thing aside from agreeing with them, because others have said it better than I could.



To be fair, I'd argue that (major) positive things are acceptable at weird hours, too. Example: A really good friend of mine called me at 1-2 am (shortly after I moved 3 times zones ahead, so that contributed to it) to tell me that she had just gotten engaged. I may have been asleep and needing to get up at 6 the next morning, but I'm still glad she called me to tell me that. Could it have waiting? Yeah, but it was a big enough thing that I can't blame her for wanting to share it sooner, and I was never upset with her for waking me, given why she did so.

of course..big things in general are good..that said, they need to be big things, not things blown out of proportion that can absolutely wait, which I assume is the case here.

[Sturmcrow]

Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.

Spoiler

My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

Some semi private stuff behind the cut

Spoiler

It sounds like it is.

First, my advice is to sit her down and explain how you feel. Don't put it in terms of you did, you said, but I feel this.

Secondly, as someone who has to take percocet, lyrica and tramadol hcl because of chronic pain I can tell you, being in chronic pain makes it really hard to control your temper. It makes small frustrations seem like mountains. I am not excusing the behavior but I am not there to watch your relationship with this person 24/7 so I do not know the true dynamic. What I can see is you are upset with this treatment and something needs to change. Your friend sounds like she needs counseling for her pain management issues.

[Erloas]

Well first I'm just going to complain for a second... as mentioned above so many people write generic profiles about how they act and what they are looking for and of course it sounds like they are a good person... but it sure makes it hard to actually message them because there is almost nothing there to actually directly address.


As for RHL... maybe its just me... but how can you have a good friend you feel like you can't be honest with? If you can't be honest with them, and they can't accept some honesty from you, then how much of a true friend are they?
Maybe I'm just weird (well I know I am, not sure about this specific case though) but any friend that I talk about anything serious with I try to make it very clear that if they have any problem with what I'm doing or saying to please let me know. I know sometimes its hard to hear that you're being a pain in the rear to someone else, but I personally think its much better to know you are being a pain, that you need to adjust what you are doing, but the other person is still your friend and still there for you even if you are.
To me that is sort of the line between being a casual friend and a good friend.
And sometimes it really is a case of someone being enabled. My cousin lived with me for a while and he was always whining and complaining and acting like he had everything so bad and he acted like he shouldn't be responsible for his own well being and we (my other brother was living with me at the time too) basically said, suck it up, deal with it, and don't expect other people to take care of you, and he eventually figured it out. Thats not something he ever got from his parents, and didn't see yet in life. So it was sort of a kick in the rear for him to take care of it himself.

Sometimes it takes feeling hurt by a friend and finding that they are still your friend afterwards for it to really settle in that they are your friend for good or bad. And sometimes the right answer really is suck it up and get on with life even if thats not what they want to hear.

[Frozen_Feet]

Went to see Avengers today. Will always remember it as a movie I had to ask five girls to go with me for. After Misses B, C and D had declined and A had to cancel just an hour before the movie started, I fortunately managed to drag new girl E with me. Don't know much about E yet, I contacted her through a Finnish dating site last thursday, but she seems interesting enough. I hope I'll at least get a new friend.