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Now, unlike most people, I don't hate the PHB elf. I've had many elf characters and enjoyed playing them. That being said, the PHB elves could use a lot of improvement. So here I'm making my own version of an elf. This comes from a more...refined society, where magic is the norm. These elves are elegant and on average more powerful then humans due to their spellcasting (still LA 0 though) but are probably only appropriate for high magic campaign settings. This elf also has a definite dark side to it, which will be further expanded upon when I do my drow rewrite. Hope you like it, and please provide feedback.
The Elf
Were the darkness so strong, I would have perished long ago in its tide. Me, wielding it and standing here before you, is testimony to the weakness of the shadows.
The elves are a mysterious, enigmatic race, wondered at by the other races for their skill in the eldritch arts. They have incredibly long life spans, and although they are only as strong naturally as humans, their extended lives lead to studies in arcane magic, which makes them as a whole far more powerful then humans.
Personality: Elves are refined and elegant in their speech, but will rarely use more words then necessary. Many find them to be insufferably arrogant and confident, although those that confront them are often lashed out at. Elves, oddly enough, also have a very short temper. When they get angry, they don't shout or make empty threats, but will instead become deathly quiet and if further provoked will often strike with lethal force. Those who know elves better know that these tempers are but the tip of an iceberg of a darker personality that almost all elves possess. Adventurers who see elves in battle experience this dark side in full.
Physical Description: Even those humans who most fervently hate elves will admit that they are beautiful. It is an alien beauty, to be sure, and one that lends itself towards a danger lurking beneath the surface, but they are still the fair folk. Elves are quite tall, usually standing over six feet, and have very lean builds. They're perhaps most famous for their incredibly pointy ears and narrow, almond shaped eyes. Most remarkably though, their eyes constantly shift colors, creating a fascinating but slightly disturbing effect.
Relations: Elven relationships with other races are...strained. Most people recognize the value of having an elf in the community: he brings knowledge, experience, and often magic. However, elves are also very difficult to get along with due to their aloof attitudes and more disturbingly, their darker side. Humans, halflings, and gnomes are usually willing to look past this, while dwarves find them simply too insufferable to deal with.
Alignment: Elves are structured and passive, so most are lawful neutral. Evil elves aren't that rare, but most are still lawful and not necessarily vindictive. Just very ambitious. Good elves are more common then their evil counterparts, and those elves often leave their homelands and wander the world, hoping to help those in need. Good elves also find themselves at conflict with their inner dark sides, although some have overcome this completely.
Elf Lands: Elves dwell in all kinds of regions, but most famously within massive, enchanted forests where they shape the trees into homes. Travelers in elf lands are often amazed at the sheer amount of skill that goes into crafting their cities and the vibrant magic that suffuses their society.
Religion: (Going to make Elven deities later. Corellon Larethian no longer seemed to fit the elf.)
Elf Racial Traits
+2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution. Their long lives leads to much studying, observing, and learning, but elves are naturally more frail then humans and similar races.
Medium. As medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties based on size.
Base land speed is 30 feet.
+2 racial bonus on all Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, and Knowledge (arcana) checks. Elves are naturally adept at handling magic, and are educated in it from a young age.
+1 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. Elves are quite aware of their surroundings. Trance: Elves do not sleep. Instead, they enter a sort of trance. It functions as a normal sleep, but the elf is aware of his surroundings as if here were awake, with the following penalties: he takes a -4 penalty on all perception based checks, and taking any actions immediately interrupts his trance.
+2 racial bonus on saves against Enchantment and Transmutation. Elves live's are infused with magic, making them less susceptible to influence by these forces.
Low-light vision. Elves can see twice as far as normal in cases of poor illumination. Magical Acolyte: An elf can select one 0 level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can use it as a spell like ability a number of times per day equal to his intelligence modifier. When they reach 5 HD and their power develops, they can use their 0 level spell at will and they learn an additional 1st level spell usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. At 10 HD the 1st level spell-like ability is usable at will, and they learn a 2nd level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of tims per day equal to their intelligence mdofier. At 15 HD the 2nd level spell is usable at will and they learn a 3rd level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. At 20 HD they can use their 3rd level spell-like ability at will, and they learn one 4th level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. This represent the elve's innate magic, and how it develops as they mature.
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Wizard.
Have you ever heard of the Deep Imaskari? They represent mostly what I always felt that Elves should be, but are still slightly weak (in my opinion). Maybe you could merge the Deep Imaskari with some Elvish Fey-Ancestry type stuff/fluff, and come up with something totally awesome?
Have you ever heard of the Deep Imaskari? They represent mostly what I always felt that Elves should be, but are still slightly weak (in my opinion). Maybe you could merge the Deep Imaskari with some Elvish Fey-Ancestry type stuff/fluff, and come up with something totally awesome?
This race...is disturbingly similar to my elf. Not sure what you mean by merging it...literally a hybrid? Or something that's just based on them?
No, sorry, what I meant to say was, this Elf rewrite still feels pretty weak to me, and that maybe if you read about the Deep Imaskari you could find a way to blend your Elf and the Deep Imaskari together to build a stronger, more interesting race. The only attractive thing about it is that it's got the highly sought after bonus to Intelligence, but it still gets that debilitating Constitution penalty.
Compared with the Deep Imaskari, your Elf gets a few skill bonuses and the situational bonuses vs spells, but the Deep Imaskari trades the Constitution penalty for a Dexterity penalty and gets a free recall of a 1st level spell, better for a caster than cantrips.
I just got an idea, and it's maybe too powerful, I don't know: Elves get a racial ability that gives them an arcane caster level equal to their character level, regardless of character class. Elf Fighter 10? Has an arcane caster level of 10.
What about this?
Elf Racial Traits
+2 to any one Mental ability score (Int, Wis, or Cha), -2 to any one Physical ability score (Str, Dex, or Con).
Medium. As medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties based on size.
Base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-light vision. Elves can see twice as far as normal in cases of poor illumination.
+2 racial bonus on all Spellcraft and Use Magic Device checks. Elves are naturally adept at handling magic, and are educated in it from a young age.
+2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. Elves are quite aware of their surroundings. Trance: Elves do not sleep. Instead, they enter a sort of trance. It functions as a normal sleep, but the elf is aware of his surroundings as if here were awake, with the following penalties: he takes a -4 penalty on all perception based checks, and taking any actions immediately interrupts his trance. Magical Acolyte: An Elf has a caster level, both arcane and divine, that is the sum of his class levels, including non-spellcasting classes, even if he does not possess levels in any spellcasting classes. This caster level can be substituted for the caster level of any spellcasting classes he possesses, and it is increased or decreased as normal by all effects that increase or decrease caster level (such as Karma Beads or the Mage Slayer feat). This represents the magical tutoring all elves receive from an incredibly young age (by their standards).
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Any spellcaster.
I just got an idea, and it's maybe too powerful, I don't know: Elves get a racial ability that gives them an arcane caster level equal to their character level, regardless of character class. Elf Fighter 10? Has an arcane caster level of 10.
I need to think on your suggestions, but HD = CL is crazy good and warrants significant LA. I changed the magical acolyte ability so it scales a little bit better.
Elf Racial Traits
+2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution. Their long lives leads to much studying, observing, and learning, but elves are naturally more frail then humans and similar races.
Medium. As medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties based on size.
Base land speed is 30 feet.
+2 racial bonus on all Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, and Knowledge (arcana) checks. Elves are naturally adept at handling magic, and are educated in it from a young age.
+1 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. Elves are quite aware of their surroundings. Trance: Elves do not sleep. Instead, they enter a sort of trance. It functions as a normal sleep, but the elf is aware of his surroundings as if here were awake, with the following penalties: he takes a -4 penalty on all perception based checks, and taking any actions immediately interrupts his trance.
+2 racial bonus on saves against Enchantment and Transmutation. Elves live's are infused with magic, making them less susceptible to influence by these forces.
Low-light vision. Elves can see twice as far as normal in cases of poor illumination. Magical Acolyte: An elf can select one 0 level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can use it as a spell like ability a number of times per day equal to his intelligence modifier. When they reach 5 HD and their power develops, they can use their 0 level spell at will and they learn an additional 1st level spell usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. At 10 HD the 1st level spell-like ability is usable at will, and they learn a 2nd level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of tims per day equal to their intelligence mdofier. At 15 HD the 2nd level spell is usable at will and they learn a 3rd level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. At 20 HD they can use their 3rd level spell-like ability at will, and they learn one 4th level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. This represent the elve's innate magic, and how it develops as they mature.
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Wizard.
I love the theme and abilities, but this is badly in need of a level adjustment. If you were making a Wizard character and had to pick a race, is there any reason that you would choose anything besides this? Magical Acolyte makes this strictly better than any other 0-LA race out there, and I'm pretty sure it's also strictly better than the Spell-Like Ability High Arcana from Archmage. Protection from [alignment] at will at 10HD? I'd consider that even if I were building a non-caster. As-is, I'd say this is LA+2. (And I really, really don't like level adjustments).
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[...]HD = CL is crazy good and warrants significant LA.
What makes you say that? I grant you that it's power is somewhat difficult to gauge, but is it really so different than how the Kalashtar (or your own Demirci) gets 1 PP per character level? Granting a caster level without the spell slots or knowledge of spells to go with it does nothing by itself (although it does open some doors that would otherwise be closed), and only allows a caster player to be a bit more fluid with the way it multiclasses.
On your current version, I've seen that done before with Elves, in fact, it's a direction I've gone before, but I tend to dislike it for some hard-to-pin-down reason. Perhaps it's a touch too complicated for a touch too little benefit to me. It is very powerful, probably a lot more powerful than most other racial abilities, so it is probably worth some LA, but I'd wager no more than LA +1.
I love the theme and abilities, but this is badly in need of a level adjustment. If you were making a Wizard character and had to pick a race, is there any reason that you would choose anything besides this? Magical Acolyte makes this strictly better than any other 0-LA race out there, and I'm pretty sure it's also strictly better than the Spell-Like Ability High Arcana from Archmage. Protection from [alignment] at will at 10HD? I'd consider that even if I were building a non-caster. As-is, I'd say this is LA+2. (And I really, really don't like level adjustments).
How would you say I should scale it down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziegander
What makes you say that? I grant you that it's power is somewhat difficult to gauge, but is it really so different than how the Kalashtar (or your own Demirci) gets 1 PP per character level? Granting a caster level without the spell slots or knowledge of spells to go with it does nothing by itself (although it does open some doors that would otherwise be closed), and only allows a caster player to be a bit more fluid with the way it multiclasses.
On your current version, I've seen that done before with Elves, in fact, it's a direction I've gone before, but I tend to dislike it for some hard-to-pin-down reason. Perhaps it's a touch too complicated for a touch too little benefit to me. It is very powerful, probably a lot more powerful than most other racial abilities, so it is probably worth some LA, but I'd wager no more than LA +1.
I'll consider the CL thing actually. I thought you meant give it literal levels in spellcasting and I was like...WHOA! BROKEN! But a CL boost is definitely a possibility. I agree that this certainly isn't more then LA +1.
Magical Acolyte is too powerful, I think. Take a 15th level Elf - Heroics at-will is just asking for insanity. A Swiftblade would love to be a 20th level Elf, if for nothing more than an at-will Haste. Even at 10th level, an Elf could choose something like Nerveskitter to be their at-will spell of choice. Automatic +5 to the initiative rolls of the entire party, all the time.
Perhaps just give them a variety of predefined spell-like abilities according to their HD? That's how the Half-Celestial template (+4LA) works, as an example.
Magical Acolyte is too powerful, I think. Take a 15th level Elf - Heroics at-will is just asking for insanity. A Swiftblade would love to be a 20th level Elf, if for nothing more than an at-will Haste. Even at 10th level, an Elf could choose something like Nerveskitter to be their at-will spell of choice. Automatic +5 to the initiative rolls of the entire party, all the time.
Perhaps just give them a variety of predefined spell-like abilities according to their HD? That's how the Half-Celestial template (+4LA) works, as an example.
Interesting...I like that idea! I'll try to have a table of spells up tonight.
This is interestingly flavored, but almost certainly too powerful for LA 0, and I find it a bit less necessary than most of your alterations. Elves already get plenty of love, and in particular the Sun Elf of Faerun makes this one seem questionable.
Here's my version of 3.5 elves, where I improved their ability to concentrate and their ability to resist disease. I didn't want elves to be the most sickly or least able to maintain concentration compared to the other core races.
+2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution.
Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Weapon Group Proficiencies: Elves are proficient with Bows, as well as Light Blades or Heavy Blades.
+2 racial bonus on Concentration, Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
+4 racial bonus on saving throws against all disease effects, including supernatural diseases.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against paralysis and mind-affecting spells or effects.
Immunity to magic sleep effects.
Reverie: Elves that trance for 4 hours gain the same benefit a human does from 8 hours of sleep. A creature in trance may make Listen checks at a -5 penalty.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
Favored Class: Wizard. A multiclass elf’s wizard class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
Loses -- free search checks to notice secret doors within 5 ft
Loses -- racial immunity to specific spells and effects that cause paralysis (like ghoul's touch)
Loses -- +2 racial bonus on saves vs enchantment spells and effects
Magical Acolyte: An elf can select one 0 level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can use it as a spell like ability a number of times per day equal to his intelligence modifier. When they reach 5 HD and their power develops, they can use their 0 level spell at will and they learn an additional 1st level spell usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. At 10 HD the 1st level spell-like ability is usable at will, and they learn a 2nd level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of tims per day equal to their intelligence mdofier. At 15 HD the 2nd level spell is usable at will and they learn a 3rd level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. At 20 HD they can use their 3rd level spell-like ability at will, and they learn one 4th level spell as a spell-like ability usable a number of times per day equal to their intelligence modifier. This represent the elve's innate magic, and how it develops as they mature.
So 15th level an elf can throw around a half dozen fireball spells in addition to his spell selection and at 20th level one per round at will.
It makes fighters with their puny longbow +5 and rapid shot feat look a bit weak. I'd suggest limiting this to a selection of spells rather than allowing free reign or you're inviting abuse from players.
So 15th level an elf can throw around a half dozen fireball spells in addition to his spell selection and at 20th level one per round at will.
It makes fighters with their puny longbow +5 and rapid shot feat look a bit weak. I'd suggest limiting this to a selection of spells rather than allowing free reign or you're inviting abuse from players.
Yeah...as is its too powerful. I'm going to tone it down a bit, just thinking of precisely the best way to do that.
It makes fighters with their puny longbow +5 and rapid shot feat look a bit weak.
You say this as though they are not completely and totally weak.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilingsworth
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
This might be pushing a little past normal LA 0 territory, but I'm thinking letting all elves count as first level sorcerers for the purpose of using magic items. Makes them badass artificers and has some use for divine casters, but mostly exists to give noncasters some fun toys to play with. Throw in the ability to use Detect Magic as an at-will SLA, and that sounds like a decent magically-focused race without giving away too much.
I'd be inclined to make them run off of Cha instead of Int, too, but that's my preference for the innately magical race slant sorcerer instead of wizard.
Yeah...as is its too powerful. I'm going to tone it down a bit, just thinking of precisely the best way to do that.
You could stop the advancement of Magical Acolyte when they get the at-will cantrip at 5th level, and just never grant higher level spells. Then mid and high level elves have a random magic trick that they can use all the time (I'd put money on Message, Mending, or Prestidigitation), but it's probably not going to overshadow class features.
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I prefer higher powered games, do not consider magic to be "special", and want non-casters to have similar levels of utility. If you haven't clearly said what your balance goals are, my suggestions generally reflect that. I'm pretty good with other balance points too though, so if I'm offering OP advice, let me know and I'll fix that.
Magical Acolyte is a wonderful inspiration.
I'd push it a bit further.
At any time when a SL ability is gained, a secondary/tertiary/... spell is gained for each of the lower levels. And nix the at-will part - a magical acolyte shouldn't be spamming spells like crazy, event if their effects are not so significant at those levels.
This would give Elves a bit wider repertoire (which would be thematically sound) without going overboard.
In addition, I'd keep the core bonuses of +2 to Listen, Search & Spot (not including the auto-search, of course).
And just as Ziegander has suggested, I'd also leave it in the players' hands to choose the physical & mental abilities to receive the modifiers.
Elf Racial Traits
+2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution. Their long lives leads to much studying, observing, and learning, but elves are naturally more frail then humans and similar races.
Should be "than".
Quote:
This represent the elve's innate magic, and how it develops as they mature.
Should be "represents" and "the elf's" or "elven".
What's the caster level for Magical Acolyte?
P.S. Fireball at will? True Strike at will?
Magical Acolyte is a wonderful inspiration.
I'd push it a bit further.
At any time when a SL ability is gained, a secondary/tertiary/... spell is gained for each of the lower levels. And nix the at-will part - a magical acolyte shouldn't be spamming spells like crazy, event if their effects are not so significant at those levels.
This would give Elves a bit wider repertoire (which would be thematically sound) without going overboard.
In addition, I'd keep the core bonuses of +2 to Listen, Search & Spot (not including the auto-search, of course).
And just as Ziegander has suggested, I'd also leave it in the players' hands to choose the physical & mental abilities to receive the modifiers.
All good suggestions. It shall be done!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SinsI
Should be "than".
Should be "represents" and "the elf's" or "elven".
What's the caster level for Magical Acolyte? P.S. Fireball at will? True Strike at will?
You could stop the advancement of Magical Acolyte when they get the at-will cantrip at 5th level, and just never grant higher level spells. Then mid and high level elves have a random magic trick that they can use all the time (I'd put money on Message, Mending, or Prestidigitation), but it's probably not going to overshadow class features.
This, I think, is right on the money.
If you tone back the Magical Acolyte ability, this is +0 I'm pretty sure.
Here's my version of 3.5 elves, where I improved their ability to concentrate and their ability to resist disease. I didn't want elves to be the most sickly or least able to maintain concentration compared to the other core races.
+2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution.
Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Weapon Group Proficiencies: Elves are proficient with Bows, as well as Light Blades or Heavy Blades.
+2 racial bonus on Concentration, Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
+4 racial bonus on saving throws against all disease effects, including supernatural diseases.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against paralysis and mind-affecting spells or effects.
Immunity to magic sleep effects.
Reverie: Elves that trance for 4 hours gain the same benefit a human does from 8 hours of sleep. A creature in trance may make Listen checks at a -5 penalty.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
Favored Class: Wizard. A multiclass elf’s wizard class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
Loses -- free search checks to notice secret doors within 5 ft
Loses -- racial immunity to specific spells and effects that cause paralysis (like ghoul's touch)
Loses -- +2 racial bonus on saves vs enchantment spells and effects
You. I like you. This is a great LA +0 fix. I love the Concentration bonus and the easier Listen checks while in a trance in particular. Not as sure about Heavy Blades; being an elf lets you use a greatsword? I guess that's a casualty of the way weapon groups are defined, though.
As for the actual thread... This definitely looks LA +2 or so to me, if not even higher, since literally no other ability in the game (that I can think of) lets you use an arbitrary spell at-will. The most terrifying things to make at-will are swift spells; swift invisibility at-will? Swift wraithstrike? Do not want. Maybe, maybe, you could get away with letting the spells be 1/day and make it an LA +1 race. But then we're not really talking about elves anymore - you're talking more about some sort of uber high elf, the progenitor from which other elves come. Tarkisflux's fix is good, too, and could leave the elf at LA +0, though I don't like the game world implications. At-will anything is weird; Repair Minor Damage to indefinitely heal the party Warforged, or cast Stick on literally everything!
The problem with the key feature is that its power is very dependent on optimisation. If a player has at-will fireballs at level 20, it's going to be pretty irrelevant really (a dedicated archer should be able to do more than 6d10 damage by then, and the save is going to be pitiful) but there are some actual scary things that they can do even with at will mending (as pointed out by Vadskye).
I like this a lot, but it might be as simple as dropping the 'at will' section.
Alternatively, making them take powers from the enchantment and evocation lists would definitely help (spell like abilities trigger off charisma unless otherwise stated, so it's going to be MAD even before adding a class, and 6d10 damage with an easy save for half is going to be pretty pointless by level 20 anyway.
This is somewhat of a thread necromancy, I know, but it's a change I wanted to suggest back then but somehow didn't get to it.
Magical Acolyte Affinity:
An elf gains one 0 level arcane spell of the player's/DM's (PC/NPC) choice.
At 5/10/15/20 HD, an elf gains access to a new 1st/2nd/3rd/4th level arcane spell effect (respectively) and another spell effect from each of the lower spell levels.
When a spell effect is first gained, it is usable once per day, while other spell effects (starting at 5HD) become usable a number of times per day equal to the elf’s Int-bonus (if higher than +1), but never more than this.
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