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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Level comparisons for Half-cast advancement such as bard, half psi such as psiwar, then comparisons for my pool min, max and average.
Last one is mutations/level, then what teratomorph adds.
Here's a good question:
Is there any mutator ability that is dangerous to balance in combination with other effects that are not granted by the mutator?
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Barring Gestalt, which throws the chassis limitations out of whack, nothing I can think of. Most abilities the evolutionist would have to multiclass to acquire are either deep down into other classes (meaning you probably dipped evo) or more exotic things that you probably don't build around, just accept as perks (or... Well... Whole mechanics of other classes, I guess).
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Two potential feats:
Awesome Bash
Prerequisites: Awesome Blow, Size Large or larger, Slam natural attack, Bash Mutation
Benefit: You may use the Bash ability and Awesome Blow as part of the same full-round action attack. If you do so, your Awesome Blow feat treats you as one size category larger for each iteration of the Bash mutation you have.
Ruinous Throw
Prerequisites: Awesome Bash, Rock Throwing mutation
Benefit: When you knock an enemy back using Flinging Throw, if the enemy could land in a space containing another target, you may use the flung enemy as a Rock Throw, making an attack roll and dealing damage as normal.
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Last edited by Gideon Falcon : 09-22-2012 at 12:02 PM.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon
Two potential feats:
Flinging Blow
Prerequisites: Awesome Blow, Size Large or larger, Slam natural attack, Bash Mutation
Benefit: When using the Bash ability, your Awesome Blow feat treats you as one size category larger for each iteration of the Bash mutation you have.
Ruinous Throw
Prerequisites: Flinging Blow, Rock Throwing mutation
Benefit: When you knock an enemy back using Flinging Throw, if the enemy could land in a space containing another target, you may use the flung enemy as a Rock Throw, making an attack roll and dealing damage as normal.
First feat doesn't work. Delivering an Awesome Blow is a standard action and Bashing is a Full Round action (even if you have an extra standard action you are still performing separate actions).
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
That feat remains objectively inferior to Knockback (RoS, pg. 142), which does essentially the same for... Well, one less feat. Also more accessible prerequisites.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
ah, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the top of the thread honestly. Maybe if I show him it, I'll be able to use it for a later character. Worth a shot huh?
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenosus
ah, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the top of the thread honestly. Maybe if I show him it, I'll be able to use it for a later character. Worth a shot huh?
Well, seeing as this is the homebrew section of the board, you can reasonably assume that everything you see here is homebrew.
Fatigue makes me wax philosophic and/or babble. If I've posted something strange and tangential, that is probably the cause. This entry would be an example.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenosus
ah, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the top of the thread honestly. Maybe if I show him it, I'll be able to use it for a later character. Worth a shot huh?
The sooner you can break your party into the wonderful world of (well made) homebrew, the better.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon
For future prestige classes you can do, why not make a PrC for Evolutionist/Xenoalchemist, with Kellus' absolutely brilliant graft system?
Man, add in gramarie, have circuits that control chassi who take levels in evolutionist a la dreamcatchers, then get a DM to allow mutations to be harvested as grafts...
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon
For future prestige classes you can do, why not make a PrC for Evolutionist/Xenoalchemist, with Kellus' absolutely brilliant graft system?
I have been trying to think of good mechanics for this but, like my attempt to go for a Blood King PrC, it tends to get excessive very quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnicrat
Man, add in gramarie, have circuits that control chassi who take levels in evolutionist a la dreamcatchers, then get a DM to allow mutations to be harvested as grafts...
Harvesting mutations for grafts is pretty much all that a xenobiologist-evolutionist would get to do that is unique. For the most part, Gramarie is completely unrelated to the playstyle that the evolutionist class offers (which is closer to the Harrowed and the Ozodrin, between which there are primarily thematic differences), so there is very little overlap zone to play with.
Very little does not mean no overlap that can be used. Said overlap happens to exist in BIOY 101 and the Budding Creation mutation (as well as its builder ups), a PrC based on these two classes would wind up as a sort of Zerg-GLaDOS thing, most likely. But it will take very long to come out since it would be exceedingly complex. And focus on base-building, somewhat.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken
For the most part, Gramarie is completely unrelated to the playstyle that the evolutionist class offers (which is closer to the Harrowed and the Ozodrin, between which there are primarily thematic differences), so there is very little overlap zone to play with.
Very little does not mean no overlap that can be used. Said overlap happens to exist in BIOY 101 and the Budding Creation mutation (as well as its builder ups), a PrC based on these two classes would wind up as a sort of Zerg-GLaDOS thing, most likely. But it will take very long to come out since it would be exceedingly complex. And focus on base-building, somewhat.
Very little does not mean no overlap that can be used. Said overlap happens to exist in BIOY 101 and the Budding Creation mutation (as well as its builder ups), a PrC based on these two classes would wind up as a sort of Zerg-GLaDOS thing, most likely. But it will take very long to come out since it would be exceedingly complex. And focus on base-building, somewhat.
PrCs are plain gross to me, that's why I'm trying to make a class that never has to go into one.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
This class is awesome...maybe a bit too much so? If I ever get to play pnp, I want to run this.
So here's my attempt at making one playable from 1 to 10.
Spoiler
Goals: Batman-style character - the ability to do a pretty good amount of damage while being enough of a generalist to be useful in any situation.... combined with being unreasonably hard to kill. There's nothing wrong with being an Eldritch Abomination as long as you're Good-aligned, right?
Resources: D20SRD and this thread
Base: Human, 28pb
I was originally thinking halfling would be cool (more motivation to adapt/grow better) but the weak base means that the evolutionist should start with every advantage he can get
STR 14
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 8
Skills invested in: Can max out 4 skills... distributing points into 4 general categories. %s give approximate % of the points distributed to each category.
Mobility: 1/5
Balance (50%)
Escape artist (50%)
I'm assuming you can choose mutations & feats in whichever order you want, to both qualify for & select a feat at the same level. L1
Feat: Blind Fight
Feat: Improved Toughness
Improved Unarmed Strike
Monster Sage
Mutations (5):
Evolve Resilience
Adherent Hands (1st)
Natural Armor +2
Tentacle x2, bludge
Powerful Form
L2
Mutations (3):
Adherent hands (2nd)
Evolve Combat Instinct (1st)
Web
Teratomorph I: Dire Body
Cumuluative Mutation effects:
+1 HP/level
Climb speed 10'
+1 to-hit
+3 BAB
+5 Natural Armor
+1 STR, +1 on STR checks
Tentacle x2, bludge, 1d4
Tentacle x2, slash, 1d4
Intimidate check bonus equal to Mutator level
Web x3/day
Fast Healing 1
DR 3/Magic
2 extra arms
+4 to escape artist checks, +1 size category grappling, -1 size category for fitting in small spaces
25% chance to ignore precision damage
Pounce
Stats:
STR 16
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 8
Naked stats except for handaxes:
BAB 5
Fort 2
Will 3
Reflex 2
AC 17
4 arms, AB 0/-4/-4/-4, handaxes, 1d6+3, 1d6+1 x 3
2 tentacles, slash, AB 8 1d4+3 slash
2 tentacles, slash, AB 6 1d4+1 bludge
The ability to climb straight up walls, move 35' per round, charge 70+' per round, and full attack (6 attacks) at the end of a charge
Levels 5-10
Spoiler
L6
Feat: Multiweapon Fighting [reduces penalty to -4/-4, or -2/-2 if light weapons are used]
Mutations:
Elemental Resistance (acid)
Elemental attack (acid 1d6, slash tentacles)
Evolve Fortitude [save +2]
L7
Mutations:
Evolve Combat Instinct (4th)
Change Shape
Energy Resistance: Fire [to avoid the "kill it with fire" types]
L8
Stat: Strength
Mutations:
Elemental attack (fire 1d6, bludge tentacles)
Dimension Door
Fast Healing (2nd)
Teratomorph 3:
Regeneration 1
L10
Mutations:
Warped Visage
Paralysis (tentacle set 1)
Paralysis (tentacle set 2)
Mutant Ascendancy: Magical Beast [all natural weapons are now enhanced at 1/4 mutator level]
Cumulative:
STR 17
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 8
BAB 10, and a +1 to hit from mutations
120hp
Fort 6
Will 5
Reflex 5
AC 17, 5% miss chance, dr 3/magic, resist 5 damage, acid & fire
4 arms, AB 9/4/9/9/9, handaxes, 1d6+3 x2, 1d6+1 x 3
2 tentacles, slash, AB 13 1d4+5 slash, 1d6 acid, paralysis
2 tentacles, slash, AB 11 1d4+3 bludge, 1d6 fire, paralysis
Fast healing 4, regeneration
Invisibility & Dimension door once every 5 rounds
10' climb speed
35' base speed
Pounce
Slime (1d6 damage guard)
Web 3x/day
+4 to escape artist checks, +1 size category grappling, -1 size category for fitting in small spaces
25% chance to ignore precision damage
Looking at this list I'm thinking this is a Tier 1-2 class... beats out all of the non-magic users except for skill uses like B&E or being the party face, and it has a reasonably good chance of giving even wizards a lot of trouble due to the ability to go invisible, dimension door, grapple, paralyze, etc. I wasn't even optimizing for that - I just wanted to have 9 attacks per round :-P
It's game over for just about anything vs. this guy in a grapple.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
It is a high tier 3 to lower tier 2 (only reaches tier 2 lategame, however), actually. The evolutionist doesn't really have the raw power to barge into tier 2 and it certainly doesn't have what it takes to go into tier 1. Grappling is one of the best tactics for him (or for anyone who has abilities to boost it, really, grapple is very powerful), but it shorts out when FoM hits the table (until you grab a dispel SL or PL anyway, but that only works for the spell).
I made the evolutionist to be easy to hit a certain functionality floor (read: the class auto-optimizes to a certain degree, much like initiators do) and worked to leave as few "traps" as I could.
Your build is actually kind of on the weak side. The attack routine is poorly optimized (the attack modifiers are wrong, by the way) and the damage output is very low for 10th level (but my opinions may be skewed due to the nature of the campaign I currently play in). I am quite positive that a binder of the same level can do most of what was listed. The defenses are objectively inferior to what most classes of the same level would be boasting.
Last but not least, you misconsidered the interaction of mutations. Two pairs of tentacles act as a single set of natural weapons for all intents and purposes, even if they are gained at separate levels.
The only thing there that won't be found anywhere else is the fast healing, but that poses a very minor combat advantage. Combined with dimension door and invisibility it could make a great skirmisher type, but that is not as functional a strategy for PCs as it is for NPCs, and even then, again, the damage is sorely lacking and suffers grievously from any applicable DR or energy resistance too).
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
I'm not very familiar with most of the non-OGL content, sorry. Compared to the PHB type classes it's pretty powerful. Keep in mind that the numbers I was giving at level 10 were gearless - add some +4 gear, resistance rings, armor, magic weapons, etc., and he's in good shape.
Here's why I thought each set of tentacles was treated as different:
Quote:
If the evolutionist has multiple sets of the same natural weapon, only one group (one bite, one pair of claws, etc) can be the primary.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-H
I'm not very familiar with most of the non-OGL content, sorry. Compared to the PHB type classes it's pretty powerful. Keep in mind that the numbers I was giving at level 10 were gearless - add some +4 gear, resistance rings, armor, magic weapons, etc., and he's in good shape.
Here's why I thought each set of tentacles was treated as different:
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Most things that counter Su abilities only suppress them, meaning they automatically resume when the effect ends.
Also, an idea for a Plant mutation:
Psionic Creation [Psi]
Prerequisites: Verdant Servant mutation, any Psi-like ability
Benefit: You may select Psi-like ability options from the Astral Construct menus when creating your Verdant Servants.
__________________
It's a falcon. Wearing a Fedora. Your argument is irrelevant.
Official Member of the No Cussing Club
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon
Most things that counter Su abilities only suppress them, meaning they automatically resume when the effect ends.
Also, an idea for a Plant mutation:
Psionic Creation [Psi]
Prerequisites: Verdant Servant mutation, any Psi-like ability
Benefit: You may select Psi-like ability options from the Astral Construct menus when creating your Verdant Servants.
Verdant Servant doesn't allow those abilities explicitly so that it has some form of disadvantage over Astral Construct.
Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Network
Is there a mutation to gain minions? I'd suggest this one :
Call of the Master
Prerequisite: Mutator level 6.
Ability Score: None
Benefit: Choose a creature with an intelligence score under 3 and no more than 2 HD, such as ravens or zombies. You can control up to 4 HD of these creatures. They will come to you spontaneously and will obey your commands in the limits of their Intelligence score. If they die, others will take their place.
Further Mutations: Every time this mutation is taken, you can control 4 more HD of creatures. The character does not have to choose the same creature again. This mutation can be taken once per two mutator levels.
I know you said no to this already, but I can't get the image of a plant mutator who looks like a tree walking around with attack pigeons in his "branches." I want to see something like this put in just for this image.
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Re: The better man? There is no such thing [3.5 base class]
