Skillmonkey spells that don't make rogues cry themselves to sleep (3.PF, PEACH)

[tuggyne]

First off: I'd have assumed this write-up had already been done somewhere, but site search errors out and a web search doesn't show much that's relevant. So... *shrug*

Open Locks
Divination
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One willing creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell grants the subject the ability to use the Open Lock skill as though trained, although it grants no ranks. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus to Open Lock checks equal to 1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).

PF version:

Spoiler

This spell allows the subject to use the Disable Device skill to open locks, even if they possess no ranks in the skill. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus on Disable Device checks to open locks equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).

Note: This spell replaces the knock spell for all purposes.
Concerns: Not quite certain if the duration is reliable, and I'm pretty sure there are (traditionally) more domains this belongs in.

Find Traps
Divination
Level: Clr/FvS 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One willing creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell grants the subject the Trapfinding ability, as the rogue class feature. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus to Search checks made to locate traps equal to 1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).

PF version:

Spoiler

The subject gains an insight bonus on Perception checks made to locate traps equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10).

Concerns: The level might need to go up a bit, or some other mitigation made.

Pathfinder spell text thanks to Midwoka.

As always -- please evaluate and critique honestly!

[tarkisflux]

I'd consider boosting the bonus advancement to 1 per caster level, rather than 1 per two, for a couple of reasons. First, it's unlikely to step on a trained character's toes even at that rate. An actually trained character is going to have +3 on top of that, and is likely to have better bonuses from attributes and gear as well. Second, DCs start around 20 and just go up from there, so you'd need a +10 bonus to make this spell anything more than a really really backup option. You can get near that around level 7 with a full advancement, which is about the time you'd want to spare a spell slot for a backup utility effect like this.

Also, you might want to have Open Locks create a set of picks for the caster. Otherwise they get stuck with an additional penalty if they're not carrying. Alternately, you could make a set of picks a required focus.

[Xechon]

I think these are nice, and probably the best anyone could do within D&D other than get rid of those options for the caster. However, for the mischievous multiclassers out there, does the open locks bonuses stack with the actual skill?

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by tarkisflux

I'd consider boosting the bonus advancement to 1 per caster level, rather than 1 per two, for a couple of reasons. First, it's unlikely to step on a trained character's toes even at that rate. An actually trained character is going to have +3 on top of that, and is likely to have better bonuses from attributes and gear as well. Second, DCs start around 20 and just go up from there, so you'd need a +10 bonus to make this spell anything more than a really really backup option. You can get near that around level 7 with a full advancement, which is about the time you'd want to spare a spell slot for a backup utility effect like this.

See my response to Xechon below; this is an insight bonus, so it's intended to stack with skill ranks, rather than replacing them.

As far as the 1/2 CL bonus -- I simply borrowed the existing rate from Find Traps and applied it to both of them.

Suppose you're an ECL 4 team of skillmonkey, healer/buffer, arcane controller, and whirlpouncebarian (or some such). Arcane can presumably cast Open Locks on the skillmonkey, while buffer (if a cleric) should be able to put Find Traps. Assuming, say, a halfling rogue with Nimble Fingers and masterwork thieves' tools, you have the following:
+2 circumstance
+2 feat
+7 ranks
+2/+4 modifier (int/dex depending)
+2 insight
========
15/17 total

Taking 20 on open locks gives you 37; further investing in skill focus, +3 competence item, or the like would enable you to open Amazing locks at DC 40.

Originally Posted by tarkisflux

Also, you might want to have Open Locks create a set of picks for the caster. Otherwise they get stuck with an additional penalty if they're not carrying. Alternately, you could make a set of picks a required focus.

A caster planning to use this on themselves should presumably have enough foresight to have picks prepared. (And if they're using it on their rogue friend, well, the same only more so.) The focus idea could work, although I'm more or less indifferent.

Originally Posted by Xechon

I think these are nice, and probably the best anyone could do within D&D other than get rid of those options for the caster. However, for the mischievous multiclassers out there, does the open locks bonuses stack with the actual skill?

It does, because it's an insight bonus. That's the point: you can slap these on the rogue for teamwork, rather than going Cloistered Cleric with Kobold and Trickery domains and just doing it all yourself -- i.e., making the rogue cry. (Yes, this is a thing at mid- to high-op.)

---

It's occurred to me that I don't have the Beguiler spell list available; anyone know whether one or both of these spells should be on there?

[tarkisflux]

Originally Posted by tuggyne

this is an insight bonus, so it's intended to stack with skill ranks, rather than replacing them.

Whoops. I seem to have read right over that. In that case I retract my suggestions, which you have appropriately disregarded anyway, because they're not really relevant. You're writing a skill buff spell, not a less obnoxious skill replacement spell, and the bonus looks fine for those purposes.

[Eloel]

I can see wands of these selling at alarming rates.
Then again, not really different from Knock wands.

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by tarkisflux

Whoops. I seem to have read right over that. In that case I retract my suggestions, which you have appropriately disregarded anyway, because they're not really relevant. You're writing a skill buff spell, not a less obnoxious skill replacement spell, and the bonus looks fine for those purposes.

Yes, exactly, thanks!

Originally Posted by Eloel

I can see wands of these selling at alarming rates.
Then again, not really different from Knock wands.

Indeed. Hopefully a bit more sane, in fact; while a rogue could well make use of these with UMD, it would be less "why did I train Open Lock again?" and more "ooh, nice buff". And similarly for other classes.

[tuggyne]

Removed unnecessary Trickery domain usage from Open Locks.

[Deepbluediver]

The fix I adopted for Knock was one I read about on the forum somewhere a while back.

I'll try to look up the exact wording, but basically it let the caster make a "Strength" check to burst the lock, except replacing his Strength modifier with Intellect. Hence, a totally different mechanic from either picking the lock or the original spell.

Your version of Find Traps looks alright. I might not bother to include the max cap though. How often is this going to come up in epic play? And how often will a character be able to locate epic-level traps unless they are heavily specialized in it?

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by Deepbluediver

Your version of Find Traps looks alright. I might not bother to include the max cap though. How often is this going to come up in epic play? And how often will a character be able to locate epic-level traps unless they are heavily specialized in it?

It's mostly a sanity check to prevent CL-pumping shenanigans from affecting this.

[Midwoka]

There are a few things to look out for in the 3.5-to-Pathfinder conversion, beyond just Search becoming part of Perception. =) Here are the PF versions:

"This spell allows subject to use the Disable Device skill to open locks, even if they possess no ranks in the skill. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus on Disable Device checks to open locks equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

"The subject gains an insight bonus on Perception checks made to locate traps equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

Disable Device ate the Open Lock skill in PF, just like Perception and Search. And anyone can find traps without Trapfinding - it just provides a bonus to the skill checks, and is needed to disable magical traps. The Alchemist class could probably get in on these spells, too, but I'm not quite savvy enough with the class to say that for sure yet...

[tuggyne]

Originally Posted by Midwoka

There are a few things to look out for in the 3.5-to-Pathfinder conversion, beyond just Search becoming part of Perception. =) Here are the PF versions:

"This spell allows subject to use the Disable Device skill to open locks, even if they possess no ranks in the skill. Additionally, the subject gains an insight bonus on Disable Device checks to open locks equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

"The subject gains an insight bonus on Perception checks made to locate traps equal to +1 per two caster levels (maximum of +10)."

Disable Device ate the Open Lock skill in PF, just like Perception and Search. And anyone can find traps without Trapfinding - it just provides a bonus to the skill checks, and is needed to disable magical traps. The Alchemist class could probably get in on these spells, too, but I'm not quite savvy enough with the class to say that for sure yet...

OK, thanks. Additions made.