Skandi is trying to help! It's just that you two look kind of look like "Immaculate Pawns of Symphony of Chimes" to the untrained eye, so there's really not many hints he can throw your way.
Zhou does not approve of being thought of as an Immaculate. Seriously, they're annoying. He's grown up believing that because he's Exalted and thus awesome, that he's required to put more back into the society which raised him than a mortal would be, in fair payment (from each, according to his abilities - Lookshy is some bizarre hybrid communist democracy military dictatorship thing). And these priests are telling him that's wrong, that everyone owes him obedience purely because of his birthright, which to his mind sort of devalues everything he's spent his life doing.
Also? They shave their heads. Zhou is very attached to his dramatic flowing locks, and finds this to be virtually blasphemous
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"Not trusting me might be the smartest decision you made since getting off of your horse."
I asked the Exalted IrC the same thing, and the answer is a resounding 'who knows'.
As far as they argued, there were 4 options:
A) RD overrides everything else, reading as truth.
B)Partial truth, though specific phrasing can pierce this.
C) Roll off.
D) JET overrides.
Well that is extraordinarily unhelpful We can keep talking for the moment, as Orchid is unlikely to call you on it in front of Symphony even if she can tell, but... industrious, ruling here?
My thoughts:
Spoiler
I guess my feeling is that JET should win so long as there's not actually a conflict between 'believing Child is his assumed identity' and 'noting that Child is lying'. Else wearing any resplendency is an automatic I-can-lie-about-anything-ever vs Solar lie-detector charms, and that seems wrong - it's not like there's an upgrade to JET, this is how Lawgivers tell that people are lying to them. (That is, the fact that you're disguised as a soldier should not mean you can say "No, of course I didn't commit (insert crime)" and have it beat JET.) If you have a Resplendency power or Charm that lets you lie perfectly, of course it goes to a roll-off, but I wouldn't think just wearing one would qualify.
If they run into direct conflict, it's tougher, and I'd be okay with a roll-off or JET getting confused and just returning 'partial truth' on everything ambiguous. Although even then... going by everything I can see from the Sidereal book, the listed mechanical effect of Resplendent Destinies is just to give Child bonus dice to attempts to masquerade as that identity, and an internal penalty for me to disbelieve - and JET doesn't care about your dicepool.
Also, I enjoy the dynamic that the Solar likes Immaculates much more than the Dragon-Blood does, and is much happier to be mistaken for one
Also:
Quote:
it's not like the anathema are present now
EDIT: Actually, getting "lie!" on that particular statement would worry Orchid quite a bit
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Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
The issue is that the Sidereal manual actually presents donning the destiny as becoming that person fully, as that's what the destiny is. Also, note that the destiny only reads true for what the destiny did, and it's certainly possibly to trip up the destiny. Mainly, the fact that what I said is all partially true is what's protecting me, though I would like confirmation if Repledencies are going to be useless vs Solars.
This, incidentally, is why JET is getting the ax in the new edition.
Also, wait, Chimes is there too, isn't he. Dammit, uh, can I re-phrase that? At the moment, I'm pretty sure I don't know if Skandi is present, and neither Aya nor myself count as Anathema, which is why I said that.
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He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
The issue is that the Sidereal manual actually presents donning the destiny as becoming that person fully, as that's what the destiny is. Also, note that the destiny only reads true for what the destiny did, and it's certainly possibly to trip up the destiny. Mainly, the fact that what I said is all partially true is what's protecting me, though I would like confirmation if Repledencies are going to be useless vs Solars.
... hmm. Okay, I think I see what you mean. So it would read as true because the destiny didn't exist when you were present for the fight, and then the destiny showed up later to come on duty? (I was reading the IC thread as it happened, but I haven't gone back through it in detail; that's why I'm asking for people to tell me if what they say is true or not, OOC I'm not actually sure - and in this case, I don't remember when you were wearing the Destiny and when not, without going back through the thread)
If the interaction you want is just that you can say things the Destiny did or didn't do, truthfully, and have it read as accurate - I am happy to assume that won't register as an outright lie, because in some sense it is true.
On the question of whether it registers as complete truth or not - I guess the weirdness is that you know you're not the Destiny (right?), and presumably I could still roll a mundane (or Excellency-enhanced) Investigation+Perception to figure out that you're not telling the whole truth, you would just get bonuses to your Manipulation+Socialize?
Of course, I'll go along with industrious' ruling whatever it is - but for now I'll assume that I'm getting, at most, "deliberate use of half-truths". If a roll-off is required, JET says it's Perception+Investigation and add my Essence in bonus successes, so here it is:
(6d10)[6][7][3][3][4][3](26) + 2 bonus sux.
(I believe I can't enhance roll-offs with other Charms. If I'm wrong about this, I may put a little Excellency into it... say 2m for 1 bonus sux.)
I absolutely understand you don't want resplendencies to be useless vs Solars, and I know JET is an entry-level Charm and shouldn't be an auto-win button against other Exalts, but it would also seem a bit weird if my Charm is automatically overcome by a passive effect in a way that a mundane Perception+Investigation roll is not. I am absolutely not asking for JET to be "see through Resplendencies", but being able to pick holes in a Sidereal's cover to the level of "hang on, I think there's something they're not telling me" (given that they've decided to actually talk to me) seems like something a Solar with the lie-detector Charm active should be able to do.
Quote:
Also, wait, Chimes is there too, isn't he. Dammit, uh, can I re-phrase that? At the moment, I'm pretty sure I don't know if Skandi is present, and neither Aya nor myself count as Anathema, which is why I said that.
Yup, Chimes is there. Probably giggling silently. I have no problem with you rephrasing, I was just amused
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
You could attempt to disbelieve the destiny, but it involves a difference of 6 dice(+3 for me, -3 for you).
__________________
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
You could attempt to disbelieve the destiny, but it involves a difference of 6 dice(+3 for me, -3 for you).
Yeah, so I'd have a decent shot with an Excellency, and not much at all with an unaugmented pool. At the moment, though, there's no reason for Orchid to try that - she may know you're not telling her the whole truth, but it's not like that's especially unusual around here. It's not a reasonable jump (yet) to go from "this guy is hiding things from the random Dragon-Bloods who just showed up" to "this guy is someone entirely different from who he seems" - she only thinks Chimes might be a Lunar because she's aware he knows Skandi and isn't afraid of him. And she knows nothing about Sidereals - her Lunar contact has muttered about the stars once or twice, but she's a cryptic crazy sorceress. (Which is why she's asking openly about the red light; she has no idea what it means, and her current best theory is some kind of artifact.)
Anyway, I'm fine with "Orchid is wondering if her Charm is broken since everyone except Zhou constantly shows as telling half-truths" if you are She won't take any action on it, either way, until I hear something from industrious.
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Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
I'd rule that wearing a Resplendency doesn't protect against Judge's Ear. Assume it reads as partial truth.
That's more protection than a simple disguise would give, and I'm happy with that.
__________________
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
Also snerk hard at Chimes. Now, would it be too much metagaming to fire Sagacious Reading of Intent on that... hmm. I will consider. And see if Child reacts
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
__________________
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
Mm, Dawns can have a red tinge on "bright white and pale gold", and Twilights get animas "containing bright golds as well as bright and dark reds" - so maybe, but you'd think if people saw either of those they'd identify it as "gold and red light", not just red.
Then again, 'unusual Solar banner' is probably more likely on the face of it than 'brand new Exalt type'
But I think I'm going to fire Sagacious Reading of Intent. It was informative last time (and if I've spent 15 minutes searching the place, as per usual for Investigation checks, I've probably got 2-3 more motes back)
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Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Okay, I will adapt my post-in-progress to that Man, Chimes + Sagacious Reading of Intent is the gift that keeps on giving
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Ah, the Investigation+Linguistics-based approach to social intrigue, "let other people do all the work and then read off what they're trying to do"
(Admittedly, it's probably working better because Chimes doesn't have any reason to think the Wood Aspect is firing Solar social charms every time he opens his mouth)
Sorry, ok, I'll go write that post...
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Actually, here's a question. Does "sidereal" have the same common-use meaning in Creation that it does on Earth, i.e. pertaining to the stars?
Eris has Linguistics 5, so her vocabulary is fairly extensive.
(Sorry. A few things have been distracting me.)
EDIT: I'm going to assume it's yes on this one unless told otherwise, words mean what they mean - "solar" and "lunar" certainly have the regular meanings as well as referring to the Exalted. Even if it's a little obscure, she has Linguistics 5.
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Actually, here's a question. Does "sidereal" have the same common-use meaning in Creation that it does on Earth, i.e. pertaining to the stars?
Eris has Linguistics 5, so her vocabulary is fairly extensive.
(Sorry. A few things have been distracting me.)
EDIT: I'm going to assume it's yes on this one unless told otherwise, words mean what they mean - "solar" and "lunar" certainly have the regular meanings as well as referring to the Exalted. Even if it's a little obscure, she has Linguistics 5.
Excellent. Eris is having such an exciting morning Shadowlands and deathknights in her new home, Lunars blackmailing each other, finding out about a possible new Exalt type and that her No Moon contact might have given her an oblique warning about them and the man she's talking to might be connected to them...
Heh. Three Drops wasn't kidding about Skandi's chaos-bringing tendencies. She will blame it all on him
EDIT: Also, the actually important bit in that wall o' text in my last post is that she asked Symphony,
"Another anima, Symphony? That's a... fascinating... suggestion. What makes you propose it?"
And she's looking at him, and she's going to keep looking at him until he answers, because he's been getting away with way too much of the 'stay quiet and let the conversation move on' approach
(I actually kinda like Symphony. May have to start building an Intimacy to him, of mixed Respect and Don't Trust Him As Far As I Can Throw A Yeddim.)
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
industrious, did Eris hear the second bit, directed to Skandi? Or only the first piece?
Also, I feel I should note that my Limit Break condition is "subjected to severe stress or backed against a wall". I don't think it's hit yet, because even if Symphony knows about her, he's a Lunar and she probably has a couple of things he wants, so she's not too worried about him imminently passing her details to the Cleansing (or other people). But just for future reference.
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
No, she didn't. He's using Third-Veil Suggestion, so he chooses who hears what he wants.
*reads Charm*
*recites to self* ... even if he teaches, it's not worth 48 XP, it's not worth 48 XP...
But that's a nifty Charm. I love communication effects. Eris can do perfectly encrypted letters, but in verbal communication, not so much (well, she could cough into her hand and silently mouth a Wind-Carried Words Technique, but eventually people catch onto that).
EDIT: Also, I suppose I really shouldn't be surprised that Orchid wasn't the only one collecting arcane links
EDIT2: Essence 4 charm, huh?
Eris' thoughts at the moment:
Spoiler
-Chimes just implied she wasn't a Wood Aspect, nothing more. She strongly suspects he's on a fishing expedition. But she wanted to talk with him privately anyway (and talk to the others without Chimes being around), so that works for her.
-He seems to have picked up her reaction, but if he thinks it was just to the mention of a new anima, then now she knows something he doesn't know she knows. Otoh, from his perspective she clearly has some clue, even if it's just "awareness that he's Exalted", for her to take apparently-weird-suggestion so seriously.
-Maybe he's just implying he'd like to talk with her privately so he can figure out what clues she has? Could be dropping the "you're not actually a Wood Aspect" thing to try to get a reaction / cooperation.
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Hopefully that string of deductions wasn't too impossible. Zhou has no proof, and he knows he has no proof, but he's got several decades of experience under his belt and is reasonably insightful.
Not that he has any idea about Sidereals or that Orchid isn't a wood aspect, naturally. But one thing at a time.
__________________
"Not trusting me might be the smartest decision you made since getting off of your horse."
I don't find it to be hugely improbable, but it seems like the second most likely option; it's much more probable that a Dragon-Blooded is pretending to be a mortal than that a Lunar is pretending to be a mortal, simply because there's something like a hundred times as many DBs as Lunars.
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Quote:
Franks find that bloodshed and strife
Occupy most of their life--
The proper reward
For serving a lord
While ardently courting his wife.
I don't find it to be hugely improbable, but it seems like the second most likely option; it's much more probable that a Dragon-Blooded is pretending to be a mortal than that a Lunar is pretending to be a mortal, simply because there's something like a hundred times as many DBs as Lunars.
True enough. But Zhou's upbringing has led him to the general belief that Dragon-Blooded don't hide their heritage (intellectually he knows otherwise, but he's generally ruled more by emotions) while Lunars are quite infamous for hiding among mortals using their strange abilities.
Also, a Lunar would be the worse of the possible options from his perspective, and Zhou takes to heart the old aphorism of 'Hope for the best, plan for the worst'.
__________________
"Not trusting me might be the smartest decision you made since getting off of your horse."
Orchid jumped to exactly the same conclusion back at the party, just because she felt a Dragon-Blood wouldn't have so much of a reason to hide and would be more likely to go after a Lunar with backup, rather than sneaking around solo looking for blackmail information (I mean, she doesn't pick fights with Lunars, that's one reason why she hasn't confronted Chimes already). Also Skandi's from out East, the chances of another Lunar knowing about him - and disliking him, and wanting blackmail information beyond his identity as Anathema - seem much higher than for a Nexian Dragon-Blood.
That was why she told Zhou what she'd picked up, to warn him, so he wouldn't end up walking into a potential trap completely unaware.
And now she's about 99% sure because the only hint she's had about Sidereals before came from a Lunar - and it was a warning - and now Chimes also seems to know about them and wants to implicate them in Bad Things. And unless Zhou is much sneakier than he seems, he had no idea about the red light. (I don't think she's made the link between Lunars-disliking-mysterious-hidden-Exalt-type and the Wyld Hunt / Cleansing, though.)
On a train with dreadfully slow Internet, but we'll see if I can get a post up.
(6d10)[1][10][8][1][3][10](33) reactive Perception+Investigation to notice Zhou's tension, in case I need to roll.
EDIT: Yeah, I think Eris noticed. Will try to write something, but other people should not wait for me (so long as we don't get to Join Battle, as Orchid would do her best to defuse the tension before it got anywhere close to that point, but I don't think that's a serious risk right at the moment).
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
I think Underling Invisibility Practice has to be one of my favorite Sidereal Charms. It's exactly the kind of bizarre multi-use thing you expect to find in a Sidereal's toolbox.
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Avatar by Kasanip; see her sketchbook here!
I think Underling Invisibility Practice has to be one of my favorite Sidereal Charms. It's exactly the kind of bizarre multi-use thing you expect to find in a Sidereal's toolbox.
It is very neat. Hmm... it's in Bureaucracy and has no prerequisites? Hmm
It might work on Eris in ordinary circumstances, depending on your disguise, since iirc thinking someone's of a lower social class than you is sufficient to trigger it. Would be interesting if it doesn't work on her normally but does work on her while in Limit Break - Deliberate Cruelty isn't about self-importance per se, but it does imply a certain disregard for others' humanity.
I'm going to avoid posting to the IC with a reply to Zhou until I know whether Chimes is leaving or not, to avoid any confusion.
__________________ PCs:
Spoiler
Word:
Spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Snark
I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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Re: The Return of the Scarlet Empress OOC
