Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

[obryn]

A 430

The paragon path Psionic Incarnate, on Psi Power page 126, has as its capstone Daily power the ability to revv up an augmentable at-will power. But there's no requirement that you KNOW an augmentable at-will power to take the paragon path, and it doesn't give such a power to you. So what do you do about a character who doesn't know one?

Well, RAW, if you don't know any ... you don't get to use it. It does nothing.

If your DM agrees, you can pick one, hopefully from your class, that you can only use along with that Daily. That's what I'd do.

-O

[Ashdate]

A430, continued: it should be noted that there are many Paragon paths that are have functionally useless powers/abilities for multiclass characters. For example, the Hospitaler Paladin Paragon path gives a bonus to a Paladin's Lay on Hands ability at level 16. A fighter with the "Solder of the Faith" multiclass feat could enter the paragon path, but he doesn't spontaneously gain the "Lay on Hands" ability for doing so (thus, the level 16 bonus would be wasted on him).

Thus, there is a lot of precedent for Paragon paths that allow entry, but have non-functional uses for multiclass characters. That said, you can certainly ask your DM to make it work for you somehow.

[Dimers]

Originally Posted by Kurald Galain

You should be able to read all of the WOTC forums without logging in, just like you can do here. For instance, this link.

Nope ... takes me to a "Profile Setup" page.

OTOH, trying the link reminded me that I am a member because I bought DDI. But I don't want to set up a profile, because I don't believe WotC gives two darns about keeping my personal data safe. Their privacy statement is underwhelming.

Anyhoo, thanks for all the replies, y'all.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Dimers

Nope ... takes me to a "Profile Setup" page.

OTOH, trying the link reminded me that I am a member because I bought DDI. But I don't want to set up a profile, because I don't believe WotC gives two darns about keeping my personal data safe. Their privacy statement is underwhelming.

Interesting. The link works for me. Maybe it doesn't work because you have a DDI? You could try erasing cookies to remove the meta-knowledge.

Or, alternatively, create a profile that is full of misinformation. They can't misplace what they never had to begin with.

Grey Wolf

[Ecoman]

Q431

Hi does a area attack ignore cover and concealment?

thank you

[Sipex]

A431

It does not, but cover and concealment are calculated from the area attack's origin point and not from the attacker themselves.

This means you could have an area attack originate from behind a defense (provided it's within range) to completely ignore the cover your enemies are getting from you by hiding behind it.

However, if your enemy is just standing on a square which grants cover or concealment within it (ie: A cloud of some sort), then they keep that cover/concealment regardless if you hit them with an area burst or direct ranged attack.

[Surrealistik]

Area attacks _definitely_ ignore all forms of concealment unless otherwise stated (part of why they're so awesome). Sipex is otherwise correct about cover.

[Sipex]

Ah right, I always forget there are different rules around concealment vs cover

[tcrudisi]

Originally Posted by Ecoman

Q431

Hi does a area attack ignore cover and concealment?

thank you

The others have covered this well. But, I'd like to expand on it a little bit by giving you my example. A blast and burst are basically explosions, yes? So, pretend for a moment that you are in a battlefield. Someone throws a grenade. You happen to be wearing your invisibility cloak. Are you safe to stand beside the grenade?

No. Even though the grenade can't see you (concealment), the explosion will kill you.

Same battlefield, someone throws a grenade. There's a wall nearby. Are you safer to stand behind the wall? Yes, because the explosion naturally wants to follow the path of least resistance, so the wall affords some protection.

Hence, blasts and bursts are not impacted by concealment, but they are impacted by cover.

[huttj509]

Q 432 Can a free action be used in the middle of another action? For example, can the Warden's marking power (mark all adjacent enemies as a free action) be used mid-movement, or would it need to be either before or after the move?

[obryn]

A432
Yes. The specific example I remember from WotC was that a Warden can even mark everyone at any point during a charge. I forget where this was covered, but it might have been in Primal Power.

-O

[Dekkah]

Q 433 :
When you use the Barbarian at-will power Pressing strike, must you target an enemy adjacent to you or can you use the built-in shift 2 squares granted before the attack to get beside an intended target 2 squares away?

My impression is that you need to target the enemy first (thus it must be adjacent before the shift since it is a melee attack), then you can shift around/throught him and then attack him, but we have some different opinions around the table on this.

[Surrealistik]

Originally Posted by Dekkah

Q 433 :
When you use the Barbarian at-will power Pressing strike, must you target an enemy adjacent to you or can you use the built-in shift 2 squares granted before the attack to get beside an intended target 2 squares away?

My impression is that you need to target the enemy first (thus it must be adjacent before the shift since it is a melee attack), then you can shift around/throught him and then attack him, but we have some different opinions around the table on this.

Shift occurs before the targeting, so you can shift first, _then_ target.

[tcrudisi]

Originally Posted by Dekkah

Q 433 :
When you use the Barbarian at-will power Pressing strike, must you target an enemy adjacent to you or can you use the built-in shift 2 squares granted before the attack to get beside an intended target 2 squares away?

My impression is that you need to target the enemy first (thus it must be adjacent before the shift since it is a melee attack), then you can shift around/throught him and then attack him, but we have some different opinions around the table on this.

I never realized that this could be a problem. We always played it where you can shift first.

Originally Posted by Surrealistik

Shift occurs before the targeting, so you can shift first, _then_ target.

Like Surrealistik says. However, I was intrigued by your question, so I opened up my Rules Compendium.

For Choosing Targets, it says:
The target must be within range or area of effect of the power.

So, that implies that you must target something already adjacent to you. At least for normal powers.

So now we go to Pressing Strike and see if it overrides that rule.

Effect: Before the attack, you shift 2 squares. You can move through an enemy's space during the shift, but you can't end there.

Great, so now we have a timing issue. Again. So to put why this power is so confusing, let's look at Twin Strike. Twin Strike is an attack power that allows you to attack twice. Right? So now let's go back to Pressing Strike.

Before the attack. Great - so do they mean before using the attack power or before actually swinging? Because if it's the former, you can shift two, then target an enemy. If it's the latter, then you use the attack power, then you must target, then you shift two, then you make the attack.

So this is a problem about the word "attack". It can mean two different things which makes your question impossible to answer. I can say that I play it where you can target something three squares away, then shift two and hit it. But, after re-reading the rules, there's no way to confirm that my way is any better than the other reading.

Sorry that's not much help, but there's no solid answer for this.

[Dekkah]

NP tcrudisi. You answer is enough for me to make a decision as DM.
The confusion you talk about is what prompted my question in the first place.
And unless someone have an official answer (or better explanation of one or the others, I'll simply advantage the player on this - the game is there for they enjoyment after all )

[Surrealistik]

I don't think it's at all ambiguous. Choosing targets requires that you target something within range of the power yes, but the shift inherently occurs before the targeting due to its positioning, even if you choose to believe there is ambiguity in the 'attack' reference. Whatever the nature of that reference happens to be, the important and indisputable fact is that the shift definitively occurs before targeting. Power timing executes top to bottom, left to right.

[tcrudisi]

Originally Posted by Surrealistik

I don't think it's at all ambiguous. Choosing targets requires that you target something within range of the power yes, but the shift inherently occurs before the targeting due to its positioning, even if you choose to believe there is ambiguity in the 'attack' reference. Whatever the nature of that reference happens to be, the important and indisputable fact is that the shift definitively occurs before targeting. Power timing executes top to bottom, left to right.

Agreed. Power timing executes top to bottom, left to right.

The Target part occurs before the Effect line, so you Target before you shift.

It works both ways.

[Surrealistik]

Originally Posted by tcrudisi

Agreed. Power timing executes top to bottom, left to right.

The Target part occurs before the Effect line, so you Target before you shift.

It works both ways.

Here's the problem: even the interpretation that 'attack' refers to the actual attack roll doesn't qualify as an exception to the top to bottom rule. Yes, the shift may occur before the attack roll, but nothing explicitly says that it specifically goes before the attack roll, but after the targeting. Since this is the case, we can only go by the physical order of the clause which is before the target component. Therefore, the shift definitively occurs before the targeting.

[Dimers]

Q 434

If:

• Effect X triggers on a creature being knocked prone, and
• You attack a creature that is already prone, and
• Your power would knock its target prone,

Then does effect X happen?

Example: The Iron Vanguard paragon path grants a character extra damage when they push or knock prone a creature. Such a Vanguard faces off against an Elder Purple Worm, and his ally has helpfully smacked the worm to the ground just before the Vanguard's turn. The Vanguard steps up and hits it with indomitable strength, knocking it to the ground ... um ... more. Does the Vanguard's extra damage happen or not?

[obryn]

A 434

Did you knock the creature prone? If not, then no.

Once they're prone they're prone. There's no double-prone, and you can't prone a prone creature.

-O

[Kurald Galain]

Originally Posted by Dimers

Q 434

The rules don't specify either way. On the one hand, it doesn't really make sense to knock prone a creature that's already prone. On the other hand, it's not strike me as unbalancing either. Since the rules govern what is balanced (not what subjectively makes sense or not) and there's no rule against it, it should be allowed. In practice it's up to your DM, of course.

[TheBajaBojo]

Different sources that I read were contradictory about these topics:

1.Do [ranged,area and burst attacks], and more specifically spells get combat advantage?
(some say that only melee gets CA; but some condition descriptions imply that EVERYBODY gets CA, and don't specifically state that only melee does)

2.When are you allowed to multiclass?
(some say "whenever", others say at lvl11 instead of paragon class)

So what's the deal?
Thanks in advance

[Surrealistik]

Originally Posted by TheBajaBojo

Different sources that I read were contradictory about these topics:

1.Do [ranged,area and burst attacks], and more specifically spells get combat advantage?
(some say that only melee gets CA; but some condition descriptions imply that EVERYBODY gets CA, and don't specifically state that only melee does)

2.When are you allowed to multiclass?
(some say "whenever", others say at lvl11 instead of paragon class)

So what's the deal?
Thanks in advance

#1: Any attack can get CA.

#2: Whenever you can take a feat, if by 'multiclass' you are referring to taking a multiclass feat. You can only take one multiclass feat though.

[TheBajaBojo]

I meant multiclassing powers actually, but thanks anyways.
I assume powers work similarly: instead of taking a class power(or was it a feat), you take a multiclass power, but you can use it less often("at-will" becomes "encounter" etc.)

[NecroRebel]

Originally Posted by Surrealistik

You can only take one multiclass feat though.

Not quite; you can't take a multiclass feat for your own class, nor can you take a multiclass feat for a third class, but you can take as many multiclass feats for your second class as you wish. That is, a Fighter cannot take any [Multiclass Fighter] feats, and if they took even a single [Multiclass Cleric] feat they wouldn't be able to take any [Multiclass Warlord] feats, but they could still take any other [Multiclass Cleric] feats they wanted. This is because you don't actually become a full member of whatever class you MC into, but are merely considered a member for feat and paragon path prerequisites, so you don't fall afoul of the "can't take MC feats for your own class" clause.

There exist several feats in the various Blah Power books that require paragon multiclassing in a class, and those feats are [Multiclass Blah] feats. If the above interpretation is incorrect, it is literally impossible to take those feats, because in order to PMC you must have a MC feat for that class, so if having a MC feat for a class disallows you from taking other MC feats from the same class, you can never take any MC feat that (indirectly, but necessarily) requires another MC feat from the same class, which said PMC feats do.

Also, bards can freely multiclass however much they wish, but that's one of their class features.

Edit:

Originally Posted by TheBajaBojo

I meant multiclassing powers actually, but thanks anyways.
I assume powers work similarly: instead of taking a class power(or was it a feat), you take a multiclass power, but you can use it less often("at-will" becomes "encounter" etc.)

I think you mean the power-swap feats. These let you trade one of your powers for another of the same type and equal or lower level from your second class. You can take them whenever you meet the prerequisites.

[Snowbody]

A 435

Originally Posted by TheBajaBojo

Different sources that I read were contradictory about these topics:

1.Do [ranged,area and burst attacks], and more specifically spells get combat advantage?

Ranged, area, and burst attacks get CA in the normal situations: when you and an ally are flanking the target; when the target is dazed/stunned/dominated/helpless/unconscious/surprised; when you have total concealment with respect to the target at the start of the attack (this includes the concealment from a Hidden condition due to succeeding on a Stealth check); when an enemy used the run action in its last turn; when an enemy is climbing (and doesn't have a climb speed) or squeezing; or when some other condition is imposed on the enemy that grants CA (some feats or powers).

There's only one time when combat advantage is only given to a melee attack, and that's when the target is Prone. Of course, it's possible that the non-melee attacker could get CA from some other source.

[rjthom5]

Q 436

Do the Bracers of the Perfect Shot (+2 bonus to damage roll on ranged basic attacks) affect Eldritch Blast and Magic Missile (both of which say they can be used as a ranged basic attack)?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by rjthom5

Q 436

Do the Bracers of the Perfect Shot (+2 bonus to damage roll on ranged basic attacks) affect Eldritch Blast and Magic Missile (both of which say they can be used as a ranged basic attack)?

A 436

Yes. Sounds silly, of course, but by RAW, it does.

GW

[Surrealistik]

Originally Posted by rjthom5

Q 436

Do the Bracers of the Perfect Shot (+2 bonus to damage roll on ranged basic attacks) affect Eldritch Blast and Magic Missile (both of which say they can be used as a ranged basic attack)?

Eldritch Blast yes, Magic Missile no, because it doesn't have a damage roll (unless you can some how give it one).

[TheBajaBojo]

Originally Posted by NecroRebel

There exist several feats in the various Blah Power books that require paragon multiclassing in a class, and those feats are [Multiclass Blah] feats. If the above interpretation is incorrect, it is literally impossible to take those feats, because in order to PMC you must have a MC feat for that class, so if having a MC feat for a class disallows you from taking other MC feats from the same class, you can never take any MC feat that (indirectly, but necessarily) requires another MC feat from the same class, which said PMC feats do.

Whoa!! Could you rephrase that, please, I didn't quite get it.

EDIT: A numbered "step by step" description would be nice.