It's Morphin' Time! (3.P Base Class/Archetypes) (WIP)

[BlackestOfMages]

Originally Posted by Larpus

Wings possibly with a mechanic similar to the Alchemist discovery might be a fitting option.

Or maybe a scaling poison effect for your attacks.

EDIT: On a more kamen rider note, I did feel the lack of a proper finishing strike (ridaaa punch!!), not sure if it would be really necessary or if it can't be covered with discipline maneuvers, but it's something I felt it was lacking for building a kamen rider.

there's finisher? I mean, it's kinda named for said ability

[Larpus]

Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages

there's finisher? I mean, it's kinda named for said ability

Aaaand there you go, I missed that one for some reason, complaint invalidated.

[The-Mage-King]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I feel like we are short on level 3 sentai abilities...

Yeah. I think there needs to be a batch written up...

Insect themes. Exoskeleton, many limbs, antennae, ewwwww it's creepy, why won't it die, there are hundreds of them, there are small ones coming from the big one, oh god oh god someone get a flamethrower.

Don't like bugs?


Was considering something that allowed the sentai to turn into a swarm for a short period as the third ability...


Maybe extra limbs for the second?

Originally Posted by Larpus

Wings possibly with a mechanic similar to the Alchemist discovery might be a fitting option.

Ooh! Wings AND limbs!

Or maybe a scaling poison effect for your attacks.

Hm... Poison isn't... Really that common for sentai.

EDIT: On a more kamen rider note, I did feel the lack of a proper finishing strike (ridaaa punch!!), not sure if it would be really necessary or if it can't be covered with discipline maneuvers, but it's something I felt it was lacking for building a kamen rider.

Finisher.

[userpay]

Would it be to much to make it so that the Clockwork Steed becomes intelligent, gets feats, ie more or less is more like a normal mount for the Rider Archtype? In looking at it there's not much that brings the steed itself up to the level of special mounts/animal companions. For crying out loud it does nothing unless someones mounted on it.

edit: Also might not be a bad idea to come up with some additional Upgrades for a Sentai to apply to their steed. I kinda want to add some guns to it now.

[userpay]

In the vein of ideas for the Rider Steed then Magitech Templar or the Summoner's Eidolon might be good examples to take inspiration from considering they're built around upgrades of one sort or another. Transport related upgrades are an obvious start as well... Maybe one upgrade could be something where the Steed transforms into the next size category so as to carry additional passengers, though it loses most of its melee attacks in the transformation (ram/horn/overrun/trample might still be relevant).

At the very least if you want my Sentai in your game app to be riding a horse turned mini-pirate ship we need something with a swim speed!

[The-Mage-King]

I'm working on something... Just need to get it figured out.


You know the Tigersword/whatever it was called? The intelligent weapon?


Yeah. Working on that. If you're a Rider... Well, let's say that mounts with minds are harder to kill.

[BlackestOfMages]

I'd kinda advise against going full eidolon with the mount as, well, tats just nasty. we want the mount to be effective, not as powerful as the rider...

[userpay]

Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages

I'd kinda advise against going full eidolon with the mount as, well, tats just nasty. we want the mount to be effective, not as powerful as the rider...

I didn't intend that by any means, I was just tossing it out there as a potential example of how the upgrade system could work. If anything as a comparison between slots (Magitech Templar) or points (Eidolon).

[The-Mage-King]

Added: Two new abilities for Sentai Knights, Intelligent Weapon (which can be used on a mount).

Tweaked: Sentai Knight, wording on Shifting Weapon, other stuff.



Blackest has suggested something to improve the mount on the pad, and I'm thinking about how to tweak it.

[zhdarkstar]

Looking for clarification on whether or not this tactic is valid. First round, Combat Theme (Ninja) Sentai uses Obscuring Mist, passes Hide and Move Silently checks, and positions self 20 ft away from the rear of an enemy next to the sentai's ally. Next turn, sentai uses Flying Kick to land behind the enemy without entering the enemy's line of sight and passes Jump check. Would the attack granted by flying kick allow for Sneak Attack damage, as the enemy in question would be flanked by sentai in the rear and the ally in the front? Also, is the attack made with whatever weapon the sentai chooses or limited to just unarmed strikes? The way I read it, it seems like it's the sentai's choice and the "kick" part of the ability name is more for flavor than for ruling.

Level 7 Sentai with Combat Theme (Ninja), Assassin Stance, and Deadly Precision for Enhanced Weapon would deal +5d6 SA damage, which is actually 1 die higher than a Level 7 Rogue would have by class features alone.

[BlackestOfMages]

yes it gets sneak attack because the enemy is flanked. and just that is enough

also, as a note, just wondering if adding a save to the blindness from Henshin, as though its not much when the whole party is sentai (effectivly making up for that 1 round spend morphing), 1 sentai morphin amongst a team of others effectvily gives their allies an extra turn due to blind enemies being able to do very little...

[userpay]

Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages

yes it gets sneak attack because the enemy is flanked. and just that is enough

also, as a note, just wondering if adding a save to the blindness from Henshin, as though its not much when the whole party is sentai (effectivly making up for that 1 round spend morphing), 1 sentai morphin amongst a team of others effectvily gives their allies an extra turn due to blind enemies being able to do very little...

There is a save.
Will Save (DC of 10 + 1/2 Sentai Level + Charisma modifier)

[The-Mage-King]

Originally Posted by zhdarkstar

Looking for clarification on whether or not this tactic is valid. First round, Combat Theme (Ninja) Sentai uses Obscuring Mist, passes Hide and Move Silently checks, and positions self 20 ft away from the rear of an enemy next to the sentai's ally. Next turn, sentai uses Flying Kick to land behind the enemy without entering the enemy's line of sight and passes Jump check. Would the attack granted by flying kick allow for Sneak Attack damage, as the enemy in question would be flanked by sentai in the rear and the ally in the front? Also, is the attack made with whatever weapon the sentai chooses or limited to just unarmed strikes? The way I read it, it seems like it's the sentai's choice and the "kick" part of the ability name is more for flavor than for ruling.

Yes, he flanks, and yes, it's a weapon of the sentai's choice. He can call it Leaping Sword, Rider Kick, or whatever he wants to.

Level 7 Sentai with Combat Theme (Ninja), Assassin Stance, and Deadly Precision for Enhanced Weapon would deal +5d6 SA damage, which is actually 1 die higher than a Level 7 Rogue would have by class features alone.

Yeah, that... Might need to be changed.



Also, a question for the people watching this at large.

Is, at 17th level, the abilty to teleport 20 feet as an immediate action a number of times each day equal to your natural charisma modifier (That of your base Cha score+Insight bonus, and nothing else), overpowered? Because it seems like answers to various no-save-just-die spells are needed, at least to me.

[Lix Lorn]

It seems fine to me, but I'd recommend just having it as cha-mod. I think boosts to ability scores only enhance per day uses when they were there while you slept.

[userpay]

Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

It seems fine to me, but I'd recommend just having it as cha-mod. I think boosts to ability scores only enhance per day uses when they were there while you slept.

Isn't that how additional uses for everything based on stat scores are suppose to work technically?

[Lix Lorn]

Originally Posted by userpay

Isn't that how additional uses for everything based on stat scores are suppose to work technically?

I believe so.
...
Except skill points. Except pathfinder.

[zhdarkstar]

Originally Posted by The-Mage-King

Yeah, that... Might need to be changed.

It's actually not that OP when you consider that a 7th level Rogue would likely have his own Deadly Precision weapon at that point, thus making the Rogue and the CT(Ninja) equal in terms of SA die. I was more noting how the CT(Ninja) can be quite comparable to a Rogue in terms of SA damage without having to spend any money. Plus the CT(Ninja) wouldn't have access to Assassin Stance until Level 5 and Deadly Precision (via Enhanced Weapon) until Level 7.

Lv 1-4: +1d6 SA
Lv 5-6: +3d6 SA
Lv 7-13: +5d6 SA
Lv 14-20: +6d6 SA

When you look at it in the full scope, it's a quick jump at low levels but then plateaus early to where the Rogue would overtake it fast in terms of SA die.

Originally Posted by The-Mage-King

Also, a question for the people watching this at large.

Is, at 17th level, the abilty to teleport 20 feet as an immediate action a number of times each day equal to your natural charisma modifier (That of your base Cha score+Insight bonus, and nothing else), overpowered? Because it seems like answers to various no-save-just-die spells are needed, at least to me.

I think 20 feet as a flat rate might be a bit overpowered. Perhaps half land speed instead? Sentai Knights shouldn't be able to move as fast as regular Sentai due to their heavier armor. I don't really recall any Rangers using teleportation itself in this kind of a tactical manner so I envision it more as a sudden burst of speed that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

[userpay]

Originally Posted by zhdarkstar

I think 20 feet as a flat rate might be a bit overpowered. Perhaps half land speed instead? Sentai Knights shouldn't be able to move as fast as regular Sentai due to their heavier armor. I don't really recall any Rangers using teleportation itself in this kind of a tactical manner so I envision it more as a sudden burst of speed that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.

Think of the ability as for the ninja (substitution trick), high speed, or possibly magic using sentai. That said aye perhaps there should be something where it can't be used with medium or heavy armor, I mean the Sentai Knights purpose is to take whats dished out at them anyway.

[BlackestOfMages]

still think being able to outright say no to about 5 things a day is broken beyond reason.

especially since its not an answer to save or dies. not as much as its a f**k you to people who spend abilities they can;t do infinatly against you and just have them fail imediatly with no other option.

and if its to be the only answer to save or dies then it should be for everyone, not at the end of an ability chain.

also, as I said on the pirate pad, don't let people use it after determining the effect of the thing their teleporting away from. because right now they can take a SoD, fail the save then use their imediate action to entierly negate it

and if its supposed to sheild against SoD, then why not make the ability be immunity to SoDs and the like, not effectie immunity to melee combat and maybe working against SoDs occassionally, if you can ump out of their AoE range (which with 20ft, you probably can't...)

[The-Mage-King]

Added three abilities, added a note on Sentai Knight allowing them to enhance their shield for bashing with Sentai's Weapon, and overloaded the post with abilities, forcing me to change the organization around.



Flash Step is being rethought at the moment... For reasons that basically amount to "People are whining about it being OP when I don't see it."

[The-Mage-King]

Here. Have some flight, some fight, and a feat to let sentai use suit abilities outside of Henshin.


Added: Senshi of the Sky ability line, Sentai's Reflexes ability, Hastened Henshin feat, and Experienced Warrior of Justice feat. Corrected minor errors.

[zhdarkstar]

Totally digging the flying sentai concept. Great for sentai themed around flying creatures. I had a flashback to Kira from Dino Thunder thinking about that.

mmmmm.....Kira....[/Homer]

[The-Mage-King]

Oh, hey, been a while. Have a PrC.


Added: Super Senshi Prestige Class.

Fixed: Minor errors.

[BlackestOfMages]

comments on the new PrC:

you don't state this PrCs hit dice anywhere. I'm gonna assume its the same as the base Sentai class, no?

BaB/Manouvre Progression: Ouch, loosing out on both of these hits the class hard - especially since the bonuses fom the class aren't all that impressive compared to what your loosing out on. I mean, the class costs you an attack, a fair number of manouvres and gives very little bonuses to counteract the loss of said attack (the speed enchantment you can get from it dosen't really count because you could eaisly already have that from the base sentai class (and probably will))

Battalizer: It's not bad, persay, but the fact it requires two full round actions for you to not suck at life, and gives very little benefits when compared to what you loose out on, hits this class very, very hard - without activiting both Henshin and Battalizer your much, much weaker than a basic sentai of your level and close to around fighter level with your subpar BaB and lesser manouvres. activated, it does put you ahead a tiny bit on damage (+4 av damage in exchange for 1d6 damage, so chances are good you'll top it) but your still behind on to-hit and number of attacks - meaning overall less potential damage. so all you really have is a higher AC/saves. But the fact it requires two full rounds to turn on means it will be very, very unlikely you can capitalize on the minor bonuses in time for the battle not to be over, and thats assuming the pure sentai dosen't take advantage of that extra 1/3 damage from that extra attack.

Supreme weapon/armour; this is the classes one real saving grace and gives a nice bonus to the user. just wondeing is this active out of supermode, or just whilst supermode is active? because, again, two full rounds to make things activate is painful compared to the bonus.

Super-Abilities: apart from Accel (which may as well read you are immune to AoEs/Melee attacks) these all look quite nice. the loss of 5 main abilities hurts, but these mostly make up for it in their increased power, even if you do have to waste most of a combat activating them. also

Limitless Sentai once you obtain this the class begins to become viable due to only having the same activation time as a regular senta. Once this is obtained the class looks like it could work without screwing you over. too bad this takes level 20 so 90% of people taking the class will never get it.

Overview: The class provides some nice defensive bonuses but at the cost of a major kick to the groin in offensive power of a greater scale. The super abilities are nice, but the time it takes to get them all working means thtat most of the time you won't get to make use of them. if you know full well about the combat beforehand, then you can probably make use of it, but if your jumpred in combat, well, you'll probably suck compared to everyone else due to getting one less turn.

[The-Mage-King]

Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages

comments on the new PrC:

you don't state this PrCs hit dice anywhere. I'm gonna assume its the same as the base Sentai class, no?

...Hate myself, sometimes.


D10, yes. Adding that.

BaB/Manouvre Progression: Ouch, loosing out on both of these hits the class hard - especially since the bonuses fom the class aren't all that impressive compared to what your loosing out on. I mean, the class costs you an attack, a fair number of manouvres and gives very little bonuses to counteract the loss of said attack (the speed enchantment you can get from it dosen't really count because you could eaisly already have that from the base sentai class (and probably will))

Hm... Point. I suppose I could bump it to full BAB, but....

Battalizer: It's not bad, persay, but the fact it requires two full round actions for you to not suck at life, and gives very little benefits when compared to what you loose out on, hits this class very, very hard - without activiting both Henshin and Battalizer your much, much weaker than a basic sentai of your level and close to around fighter level with your subpar BaB and lesser manouvres. activated, it does put you ahead a tiny bit on damage (+4 av damage in exchange for 1d6 damage, so chances are good you'll top it) but your still behind on to-hit and number of attacks - meaning overall less potential damage. so all you really have is a higher AC/saves. But the fact it requires two full rounds to turn on means it will be very, very unlikely you can capitalize on the minor bonuses in time for the battle not to be over, and thats assuming the pure sentai dosen't take advantage of that extra 1/3 damage from that extra attack.

By level 10, your Henshin is a standard action. Though I see what you're saying. Maybe bump it down to a standard as well? That way, at level 14, you get a significant boost in that you can Henshin and then trigger super immediately.

Supreme weapon/armour; this is the classes one real saving grace and gives a nice bonus to the user. just wondeing is this active out of supermode, or just whilst supermode is active? because, again, two full rounds to make things activate is painful compared to the bonus.

Active outside of super mode.

Super-Abilities: apart from Accel (which may as well read you are immune to AoEs/Melee attacks) these all look quite nice. the loss of 5 main abilities hurts, but these mostly make up for it in their increased power, even if you do have to waste most of a combat activating them. also

I figured that being able to go 2/round "Nah, I'm not there" about AoEs and melee attacks doesn't hurt- besides, you need to decide if you're going to go "No" or if your going to boost, or change stance, or-

You get the idea.

Limitless Sentai once you obtain this the class begins to become viable due to only having the same activation time as a regular senta. Once this is obtained the class looks like it could work without screwing you over. too bad this takes level 20 so 90% of people taking the class will never get it.

A Capstone was needed, and that seemed shiny enough.

Overview: The class provides some nice defensive bonuses but at the cost of a major kick to the groin in offensive power of a greater scale. The super abilities are nice, but the time it takes to get them all working means thtat most of the time you won't get to make use of them. if you know full well about the combat beforehand, then you can probably make use of it, but if your jumpred in combat, well, you'll probably suck compared to everyone else due to getting one less turn.

I figure at the level you start taking it, you're going to know about battles beforehand, and be able to plan- and that, since you can henshin as an immediate action from a feat, you can, if you really need to, get into super mode in one round. You probably have a Cha of 20-22 by this point, so that'll last about 8-9 rounds. Which means only a bit of wasted time for Super Mode.

But yeah. Methinks I'll bump up the BaB a bit.

[The-Mage-King]

So, added a new ability (yes, I saw the sub of Wizard ), and made some tweaks to Super Sentai- the most obvious being BAB, some being ability names, and one being bumping up their effecive sentai level gained by half. Am considering an ACF to remove Strike and grant Fighter bonus feats. Is 2 overall fair for the trade (1 at 8th, 1 at 16th)?


Thoughts?

[BlackestOfMages]

ability looks good (though, to be fair to wizard, OOOs did the same thing before it, but eh...)

I'd say two/three feats looks OOK. I'd say possibly three because they are dropping 5d6 damage per hit for these feats, and short of a few they'd be picking up anyway (most likely) two feats might struggle to repleciate this

[The-Mage-King]

Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages

ability looks good (though, to be fair to wizard, OOOs did the same thing before it, but eh...)

Eh. It's a fairly common thing. There'll be an improved version for Magicains, available from 1st level.

I'd say two/three feats looks OOK. I'd say possibly three because they are dropping 5d6 damage per hit for these feats, and short of a few they'd be picking up anyway (most likely) two feats might struggle to repleciate this

Now I've added it. 3 feats for Strike and Rider Effect.

[The-Mage-King]

SO!

Updated some stuff!

Base class got two more Heroic Legacy abilities- one at 13th, and one at 17th.

Added Medalist Archetype and Prism Ranger (working name) PrC.


I need feedback on both. A LOT of feedback on 'em.

[Vauron]

Originally Posted by The-Mage-King

Base class got two more Heroic Legacy abilities- one at 13th, and one at 17th.

Are Heroic Legacy (Offense) and Heroic Legacy(Precision) meant to stack with the bonuses from Henshin? From RAW, its looks like they do, as the bonus is unnamed, and thus stacks with everything, and the wording is a noticeable departure from the prior Heroic Legacies. While I don't expect that them stacking would be a game-rending buff, the differences between the early Heroic Legacies and the new ones makes me wonder if RAI was that they shouldn't stack.