"I don't care if heaven won't take me back" Angel Template/Class (WIP)

[Hazzardevil]

So, I was thinking, what if an angel falls from grace, not far enough to become evil but far enough that the celestial planes aren't granting them powers anymore and they won't receive powers from their god.

Just to be clear, I am making a version for monster classes and a version for monsters out of the monster manual.

I'll start on the class first.
Please post if I missed anything.



Requirements
HD: 5 HD
Types and Subtypes: Outsider, one good-aligned subtype (There must be a better way of wording it than this.
Alignment: Non-Good
Special: Must have fallen from a good alignment to a neutral on the good/evil axis.

Hit dice: D8

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special
1st	+1	+0	+0	+2	Fallen Angel
2nd	+2	+0	+0	+3	Replaced Spell-Like Abilities, Neither Heaven Nor Hell

Class Skills:
The Fallen Angel's class skills are the same as the racial base class's.

Skill Points at 1st Level: (8 + Int modifier)
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier

Class Features:
All of the following are class features of the fallen angel.

Fallen Angel:
Upon first level of fallen angel, the angel begins to regain some lost powers.
The angel regains any spellcasting it had before, only it is unable to use any with an alignment descriptor.
It also regains any SLA's it had before, minus any with alignment descriptors.
The angel's body tends to lose any sheen or glow it's body had before, including it's wings that tend to gain a grey colour instead.
Also, any bonuses against evil or evil aligned abilities is lost.
If the angel has an aura that gives any kind of bonuses, half these bonuses and have the aura have an additional effect of giving half of this bonus as a penalty on opponents.

Replaced Spell-Like Abilities:
At level 2, a fallen angel replaces any spell-like abilities lost due to Fallen Angel and replaces them with a spell of equal level that lacks an alignment descriptor that doesn't match your alignment. You must consult your DM before choosing any spells due to how broken this ability can be.

Neither Heaven Nor Hell:
A level 2 Fallen Angel gains a new ability.
When targeted with either a good evil-descripted spell or spell-like ability, they gain a pool of points equal to the level of the spell. They gain good points for good abilities and evil for evil abilities.
You start with 0 points at the start of the day. The points gained are a positive number if a good-aligned ability or a negative number if evil.
You may spend these points to get closer to 0 to cast a spell-like ability of a good or evil descripted spell.
You add points equal to the level of the spell if it is an evil descripted spell, or take away if it is a good aligned spell. You may not cast a spell of a level that is higher than the difference between the number of points and zero.

[Grimsage Matt]

Neither Heaven Nor Hell:
A level 2 Fallen Angel gains a new ability.
When targeted with either a good evil-descripted spell or spell-like ability, they gain a pool of points equal to the level of the spell. They gain good points for good abilities and evil for evil abilities.
You start with 0 points at the start of the day. The points gained are a positive number if a good-aligned ability or a negative number if evil.
You may spend these points to get closer to 0 to cast a spell-like ability of a good or evil descripted spell.
You add points equal to the level of the spell if it is an evil descripted spell, or take away if it is a good aligned spell. You may not cast a spell of a level that is higher than the difference between the number of points and zero.

Why not just gain the abillity to use alginment based spells or SLA's a number of times per day?

You regain the Angel improved monster class SLA's, and can also cast reversed version of the SLA's instead of using the normal SLA. You gain something Called Karma. It starts at 0, but, if you use the revsered version of the SLA, you gain -1 Karma. You you use the Normal version, you gain .5 Karma. If your Karma hits -100, you become damned and have to replace the angel and fallen angel improved classes with a Demon or Devil improved monster class. If your Karma Reaches 200, you may atone for your sins, and trade in levels of Fallen angel for Angel levels.

[Steward]

Types and Subtypes: Outsider, one good-aligned subtype (There must be a better way of wording it than this.

Anything wrong with, "Must be an Outsider with the Good subtype"? (I assume that this is meant strictly for archons, angels, asuras, and the like)?

One thing that I don't really get -- can they ever be evil? The alignment restriction says non-good, but the special says that they also must have fallen from good to neutral alignment. But what happens if, a year later (for example) they fall from (say) Lawful Neutral to Lawful Evil? Would that still be OK, or are they meant to remain strictly non-good without succumbing to evil?

Honestly, this feels more like a template than a class to me. I don't think I've ever seen a class with only two levels in it, and I really think that you could convert the class features into template features without doing that much rewriting (just get rid of the word 'class'). You could give the template a level adjustment to simulate the effects of the class level (so that a player who took this at level 5 would be treated as a level 7 character after taking the template, just like if they had entered the class at level 5 and spent two levels into it to cap off at level 7).

The mechanic where they draw spell energy from being hit with good and evil magic is pretty cool.

[Amechra]

Originally Posted by Steward

Anything wrong with, "Must be an Outsider with the Good subtype"? (I assume that this is meant strictly for archons, angels, asuras, and the like)?

One thing that I don't really get -- can they ever be evil? The alignment restriction says non-good, but the special says that they also must have fallen from good to neutral alignment. But what happens if, a year later (for example) they fall from (say) Lawful Neutral to Lawful Evil? Would that still be OK, or are they meant to remain strictly non-good without succumbing to evil?

Honestly, this feels more like a template than a class to me. I don't think I've ever seen a class with only two levels in it, and I really think that you could convert the class features into template features without doing that much rewriting (just get rid of the word 'class'). You could give the template a level adjustment to simulate the effects of the class level (so that a player who took this at level 5 would be treated as a level 7 character after taking the template, just like if they had entered the class at level 5 and spent two levels into it to cap off at level 7).

The mechanic where they draw spell energy from being hit with good and evil magic is pretty cool.

Template Classes always have wonky numbers of levels, and really serve to stop people from jumping up levels, 'cause that messes up the flow.

[Steward]

Ah, gotcha. I don't think I've ever heard of a template class before, but if it's standard practice then I'm good with it.

[Amechra]

Take a look at these.

Also, if you look around at the monster class projects that are strewn around these boards, you can find more of them.

[Hazzardevil]

Originally Posted by Grimsage Matt

Why not just gain the abillity to use alginment based spells or SLA's a number of times per day?
I wanted something more interesting really, that a player would
You regain the Angel improved monster class SLA's, and can also cast reversed version of the SLA's instead of using the normal SLA. You gain something Called Karma. It starts at 0, but, if you use the revsered version of the SLA, you gain -1 Karma. You you use the Normal version, you gain .5 Karma. If your Karma hits -100, you become damned and have to replace the angel and fallen angel improved classes with a Demon or Devil improved monster class. If your Karma Reaches 200, you may atone for your sins, and trade in levels of Fallen angel for Angel levels.

I may add something like that in so that fallen angels can redeem themselves or fall into hell. The problem with that though is it sounds unlikely that a former angel would be accepted into the hierarchy of the hells and would likely never be promoted.

Originally Posted by Steward

Anything wrong with, "Must be an Outsider with the Good subtype"? (I assume that this is meant strictly for archons, angels, asuras, and the like)?
I was trying to word it in a way that only good-aligned outsiders can qualify, and not a good succubus.
One thing that I don't really get -- can they ever be evil? The alignment restriction says non-good, but the special says that they also must have fallen from good to neutral alignment. But what happens if, a year later (for example) they fall from (say) Lawful Neutral to Lawful Evil? Would that still be OK, or are they meant to remain strictly non-good without succumbing to evil?
I didn't plan on it when making this class, I think it would take a different class or template for that to work, so in this case you have to remain neutral.
Honestly, this feels more like a template than a class to me. I don't think I've ever seen a class with only two levels in it, and I really think that you could convert the class features into template features without doing that much rewriting (just get rid of the word 'class'). You could give the template a level adjustment to simulate the effects of the class level (so that a player who took this at level 5 would be treated as a level 7 character after taking the template, just like if they had entered the class at level 5 and spent two levels into it to cap off at level 7).
The class is meant to be for players who are taking a monster, the template I will make eventually is for monsters from the monster manual.
The mechanic where they draw spell energy from being hit with good and evil magic is pretty cool.

Thanks! I knew shamelessly stealing the idea from EA would work!

Originally Posted by Steward

Ah, gotcha. I don't think I've ever heard of a template class before, but if it's standard practice then I'm good with it.

It's something wizards made a few of in hopes of other players copying, but many people never bothered due to the hatred of LA.

Originally Posted by Amechra

Also, if you look around at the monster class projects that are strewn around these boards, you can find more of them.

I was trying to make this more like the monster class projects than the wizards one, due to how LA is a horrible thing that people should never have.
Reply's bolded.

[hamishspence]

Originally Posted by Hazzardevil

I may add something like that in so that fallen angels can redeem themselves or fall into hell. The problem with that though is it sounds unlikely that a former angel would be accepted into the hierarchy of the hells and would likely never be promoted.

The first baatezu devils were fallen "angels". Baalzebul was a fallen archon. There's a lot of precedent for them not only being accepted but rising high.

On the demonic side, Sertrous the obyrith is served by a fallen angel called Avamerin in Elder Evils- and the angel- a planetar which fell after being demoted from solar- is one of his most powerful followers. Despite having fallen all the way to Evil aligned, he retains his Good subtype and other abilities.

[Steward]

I was trying to word it in a way that only good-aligned outsiders can qualify, and not a good succubus.

Yeah, my wording works for that. Even a good-aligned succubus retains her Evil subtype. And if you want an example of the reverse, if you have the book Elder Evils one chapter features an angel called Avamerin, who is Chaotic Evil-aligned Solar but still has his Good subtype.

[Hazzardevil]

Originally Posted by Steward

Yeah, my wording works for that. Even a good-aligned succubus retains her Evil subtype. And if you want an example of the reverse, if you have the book Elder Evils one chapter features an angel called Avamerin, who is Chaotic Evil-aligned Solar but still has his Good subtype.

I'll edit Fallen Angel to better reflect what has happened to Avamerin.

Originally Posted by hamishspence

The first baatezu devils were fallen "angels". Baalzebul was a fallen archon. There's a lot of precedent for them not only being accepted but rising high.

On the demonic side, Sertrous the obyrith is served by a fallen angel called Avamerin in Elder Evils- and the angel- a planetar which fell after being demoted from solar- is one of his most powerful followers. Despite having fallen all the way to Evil aligned, he retains his Good subtype and other abilities.

I wasn't thinking about more than a few devils were originally, but I was thinking more along the lines of how a newly fallen angel would fit into the hierarchy of hell, since it is quite literally a promotion, demotion system that I can't imagine working on a fallen angel. I could see it working on an angel falling into CE-hood.