[Changeling] A Gathering of Mists (OOC)

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by PhoeKun

I had work to do, and by the time I knew there was a situation to react to, you had called dibs. Such is the nature of the beast.

On average, though, I expect I will always be the one with the least amount of time to devote to the game. While I'm never going to ask you to sit around and wait for me (because that's dumb), I do hope that this attitude doesn't turn the game into three storytellers and one person reacting to those stories as they unfold.

I may not always be so deferential to your moves.

Aha, I was in a terrible headspace then. No tone carried through at all.
My apologies Phoe, how I meant that was I made a mistake, and would rather own up to it than flat retcon my post. I fully expect this to go over terribly, but it is very unlikely to actively interfere. If that makes sense?

Originally Posted by Anarion

I'm going to give fair warning that this is highly likely to blow up in Charlotte's face as phrased. My next IC post will be somewhat limited should anyone else want to act.

Edit: Also, it might not work at all upon reread. A prepaid card is not the resources boon. That boon would actually give him real resources through some stroke of luck, but you possess no proof that it would actually work. The card is something different, and is basically lying as you make the pledge. That might have bad consequences. Now, a card could be offered as a token of resources to come, if you phrased it properly.

2nd edit: Although I agree with the sentiment that Kalina could probably clean this up easily, I want to be clear that I don't really design stuff (except maybe fetches) to highlight any one character. I'm just making problems, you're all free to deal with them however you see fit.

too much in too small a space. Lesson learned.

The Pledge mechanic got away from me, tis true. The idea and the mechanics couldn't reconcile in my noodle. Her statement would stand, but the pledge attempt can (will? Sounds like its just not possible) be removed without harm to intent.

Consolation prize, is one failure is sufficient for me to learn.

[PhoeKun]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Aha, I was in a terrible headspace then. No tone carried through at all.
My apologies Phoe, how I meant that was I made a mistake, and would rather own up to it than flat retcon my post. I fully expect this to go over terribly, but it is very unlikely to actively interfere. If that makes sense?

Yes, that does make sense, and I'm totally ok with that.


So... unrelated thought here. The wording of Stephanie's pledge from before included the words, "I'll give money to the next person who asks for it." Does... uh... does this count?

[Raz_Fox]

Originally Posted by PhoeKun

So... unrelated thought here. The wording of Stephanie's pledge from before included the words, "I'll give money to the next person who asks for it." Does... uh... does this count?

...oh.

[Thanqol]

Originally Posted by PhoeKun

Yes, that does make sense, and I'm totally ok with that.


So... unrelated thought here. The wording of Stephanie's pledge from before included the words, "I'll give money to the next person who asks for it." Does... uh... does this count?

I like to think 'ask' isn't the same as 'demanded at knifepoint'. There should at least be a 'please' for it to count.

And even if it does, there's no sanction on that Pledge. And I've got a plan for what to do if it really does come to that.

[SiuiS]

Break it down for me. how do pledges work? Because reading the book, examples, and descriptions of the system elsewhere has given me the barest understanding.

For one, I was unaware you could leave out part of the pledge (ie no sanction).

-

Glad that came through, Phoe.

[Anarion]

I'm on my phone out walking at the moment, but I'll give you a write up on pledges when I get back. You actually were pretty close and a sanction was an important part of what you were doing, you just phrased it poorly.

[Anarion]

Okay, I'm back.

So, pledges. The first thing about pledges is that they're a zero sum game with each side treated separately. That is, you come up with what you want in terms of task, boon, sanction and duration and add them up for each side. Each side must independently total 0 and you're good. The exact components are irrelevant for the most part, but some are required. You must have a duration. I also believe you must have a task for at least one of the two parties to a pledge. This is mostly because I find myself unable to think of a pledge that includes a task on neither side. Everything else is optional but you have to stick to that zero sum setup.

Second, there are several types. Pledges on Wyrd are the simplest and carry no special consequences if broken, beyond being known as an oathbreaker if it gets out plus any sanctions included in the pledge itself. Other pledges such as pledging on your true name or a mortal corporal carry severe penalties if you violate them.

Third, pledges work without requiring intent of both parties. You can lure a mortal into a pledge with casual words and even another changeling who gives his word unwisely could end up in a pledge as well. If both people have no intent it might even work if they recklessly made promises, though I have trouble imagining the situation where neither party was aware that he/she was making a promise.

Fourth, pledges take 1 willpower to invoke unless they fit within this campaign's houserule of having a short duration and no other aspect or combination of aspects exceeding median.

Now the book actually has a few errors, so don't take its example pledges exactly. We'll go over the following one and see what's wrong with it as an exercise.
Pledge of Horn and Bone
Type: Corporal, Personal Emblem
Tasks: Dreaming -2, Medial forbidden -2 (changeling can't talk about what's seen in the dreams)
Boons: Glamour +2
Sanction: none +0
Duration: moon or season +2
Invocation: 1 willpower

From the Changeling's perspective, the tasks total -4. That is the changeling has to guard the mortals dreams with the dreaming task and the changeling is forbidden from talking about the dreams with anyone else. The changeling gains a +2 boon of glamour, and the duration is a moon or season at +2, so it nets 0.

From the mortal's perspective, however, there is neither a task nor a boon, nor a sanction. Simply a pledge with a seasonal duration of +2. This leaves the mortal at +2 total and is an error on the part of the book's authors. This could be fixed by providing a sanction for the mortal only (you break the pledge, you suffer severe bad luck -2) or it could be fixed by requiring a somewhat onerous task of the mortal, perhaps forbidding him/her from discussing the changeling with others or requiring him/her to do some special ritual each night. It's also possible that when writing this, the authors considered either the dreaming task or the glamour boon to somehow apply as a task to the mortal and took that as the relevant -2.


Okay, so now we'll do the one you said. Charlotte's words were "Money for safety. We pay for safe passage, or the moon will drink of you instead, non?"

So let's go through this. From the mortal's perspective, there is a task that is a -1 forbiddence (don't harm us). The mortal receives a +2 boon (resources 2). The mortal also suffers a curse if he breaks the pledge for -2 and the duration is a day for +1. This nets to the 0 and it works for the mortal.

From Charlotte's perspective, it doesn't quite work though. One interpretation is that you have no task, the boon for the mortal fully encompasses the resources. That would leave you at +2 for the duration, unless the curse also applies to Charlotte, in which case you'd get a correct +0 but would have a sanction without a task. This would be strange, and I would interpret it to mean that if any part of the mortal's blessing were lost or changed, you would get the sanction. That means a curse within the hour since you were planning to give him a fake card.

An alternative interpretation is that Charlotte's task is the payment, which is a loss to you distinct from the boon (since you can grant boons without losing the same amount of resources). In this case, it would require that you lose enough resources to constitute a -2 task, which would probably mean losing a dot permanently, perhaps 2 dots, I'm not sure. Here, the curse wouldn't apply to Charlotte, so it would be possible to break the pledge by cheating with minimal negative consequences.

HOWEVER, breaking a pledge is a level 4 sin against clarity. Even Charlotte, with her lowered clarity, would face a degeneration roll if she made a pledge and broke it here.

As for Thanqol's pledge, I'm perfectly okay with his interpretation. Stephanie took it to mean asking, not demanding, and the wyrd will accommodate her, at least to an extent..

[SiuiS]

All this talk of poor phrasing is tearing me up inside XD

I wrote out the post, down to the spoiler, and it was perfect. I couldn't remember how the free pledges worked - either max -1 or max -2 - and went to check in a new tab. I previewed the post because that usually preserves the data, but upon checking the OOC thread, I come back to find that my data cache had been purged. The post as-is, is but a pale shadow of a dream, that I pawed after upon waking.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

All this talk of poor phrasing is tearing me up inside XD

I wrote out the post, down to the spoiler, and it was perfect. I couldn't remember how the free pledges worked - either max -1 or max -2 - and went to check in a new tab. I previewed the post because that usually preserves the data, but upon checking the OOC thread, I come back to find that my data cache had been purged. The post as-is, is but a pale shadow of a dream, that I pawed after upon waking.

Don't take it personally. It was still a beautiful phrase (albeit over the head of your attacker). And as I noted above, there are several ways to make it work out as a pledge, they just all come with significant negative consequences for Charlotte.

Though I do suggest composing in word, the notes app, notepad, or any of several applications that will preserve your writing against the horrible monster that is the giantitp server.

[SiuiS]

Looking at it (I shudder and groan to have written that sober...) I believe my intent was the 2 glamour and 1 willpower were the sacrifice on her part. Originally I had it filed as as a small favor - use of a minor contract. Not sure if I can specify the favor though, so I sort of cobbled together what I had there.

A shot to clarity is enough to make me second guess myself though.

[PhoeKun]

With apologies, right now is a time for action without intricacies. The protector desires to protect.

[PhoeKun]

And now I have to double post. Whee~

(6d10)[8][2][2][8][7][1](28)

[Thanqol]

Originally Posted by Anarion

I'm sure Thanqol will have further commentary, but rather than do this with penalties, I'm going to say that you should make an intimidate roll with a dice pool of presence+intimidate+1 (for the board) contested by the mugger's resolve+composure+1 (for his knife). The mugger achieved two successes on his roll and we'll re-roll a tie.

Because you asked:

Typically how I handle ties in my tabletops is both parties just roll a d10 and whoever gets the higher number wins. Alternate approaches include 'player wins', 'defender wins' or 'ST flips a coin'. Ultimately a minor detail but worth picking an expedient one because it's a PBP.

After reviewing what I know, I still prefer the one-penalty, one-roll approach for my own games rather than contested rolls because it makes it a lot easier for me as a ST to assess the possibility of success or failure. Contested rolls makes the bellcurve a lot wilder. If you're fine with the increased randomisation then it's a valid approach.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by Thanqol

Because you asked:

Typically how I handle ties in my tabletops is both parties just roll a d10 and whoever gets the higher number wins. Alternate approaches include 'player wins', 'defender wins' or 'ST flips a coin'. Ultimately a minor detail but worth picking an expedient one because it's a PBP.

After reviewing what I know, I still prefer the one-penalty, one-roll approach for my own games rather than contested rolls because it makes it a lot easier for me as a ST to assess the possibility of success or failure. Contested rolls makes the bellcurve a lot wilder. If you're fine with the increased randomisation then it's a valid approach.

I was going with evaluate ties on a case by case basis actually. Sometimes you could get a tie and it would make sense to simply resolve the action as a tie (e.g. in a race, they both cross the line at the same time). Here, I felt that an intimidate would not actually result in a tie, it either works or it doesn't. However, I like tie goes to the player, so I think we'll try that for future rolls.

As for contested actions, I'm fairly okay with the randomness, since I think they should only apply when you're actually pitting yourself against someone else and you don't know the outcome.

Edit: And since I did say reroll for this roll, could you roll again Phoe? This time the mugger got only a single success.

[PhoeKun]

Keep rollin' rollin' rollin'. Predicting zero successes because dice hate me.

(6d10)[8][9][9][8][3][4](41)

edit: Or that could happen. xD

[Anarion]

Aww just short of an exceptional success. Guess he won't wet himself and run away, though this will still probably go pretty well.

[Thanqol]

Hey Phoe, don't forget you should be adding 2 dice to all your social rolls because of your 4-dot Striking Looks

EDIT: Also remember that your Striking Looks bonus adds to all Vainglory contracts, so all the listed dicepools on your sheet's contracts section should be 2 higher

[PhoeKun]

Originally Posted by Thanqol

Hey Phoe, don't forget you should be adding 2 dice to all your social rolls because of your 4-dot Striking Looks

Oh, that works on stuff like this? =O

[Thanqol]

Originally Posted by PhoeKun

Oh, that works on stuff like this? =O

Actually, checking the book it says 'attempts to entertain, distract, persuade or deceive', my mistake (my tabletop GM always applies it, taking a broader interpretation of 'striking'). You do get to apply the Striking Looks bonus to all your Vainglory contracts regardless of circumstance, though.

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by Thanqol

Actually, checking the book it says 'attempts to entertain, distract, persuade or deceive', my mistake (my tabletop GM always applies it, taking a broader interpretation of 'striking'). You do get to apply the Striking Looks bonus to all your Vainglory contracts regardless of circumstance, though.

Makes sense though, with note that it can on occasion be a penalty as your looks work against you. I assumed you needed to try and 'work it' though? Not that it's hard to work four dots worth...

[PhoeKun]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

Makes sense though, with note that it can on occasion be a penalty as your looks work against you. I assumed you needed to try and 'work it' though? Not that it's hard to work four dots worth...

On the other hoof, there are some people in the world who manage to be so striking that they 'work it' without ever meaning to. I guess it depends on your Storyteller, but I assumed that's what Striking Looks really represented, while skills are more oriented toward knowing how to pose and posture and show off your pretty little hips to get what you want.

Or I guess in this hypothetical case flex your muscles, but whatevs.

In related news, I still kind of regret not spending dots on having a magic sword like all good angels are supposed to have, but Thanqol really impressed upon me the need to have the prettiest wings possible, and darn it I couldn't say no.

[SiuiS]

The number of neat things with At character creation only is indeed saddening. On the plus side, they are very pretty wings.

So, how long into the game shoul we be before we quest into the þorns to retrieve Kalina's Fae sword?

And yes, you are absolutely right. I was sort of meandering there mentally, but even if •• would be an asset one needs to maximize, •••• would not. I'm avoiding being creepy about it IC but Kalina is stop suddenly, drop-dead then shocked back to life beautiful. It's hard to meaningfully address without it consuming thought. I shall follow Raz's example of skirting a full address, slingshot-ing around The gravity well of your grandeur.

-

I'll figure out a coherent response in character, and then I may be sparse for a bit after that. I shoul be able to maintain the 1/day limit with ease however.

[Anarion]

Originally Posted by PhoeKun

On the other hoof, there are some people in the world who manage to be so striking that they 'work it' without ever meaning to. I guess it depends on your Storyteller, but I assumed that's what Striking Looks really represented, while skills are more oriented toward knowing how to pose and posture and show off your pretty little hips to get what you want.

Or I guess in this hypothetical case flex your muscles, but whatevs.

In related news, I still kind of regret not spending dots on having a magic sword like all good angels are supposed to have, but Thanqol really impressed upon me the need to have the prettiest wings possible, and darn it I couldn't say no.

You have my permission to Internet slap me if I forget dice that clearly apply to a roll anyone is making. If it's less clear, just point it out here and we'll discuss it.

As for the sword, try asking the right people.

Also, I'm not sure if this is accurate or not, but I've played a bunch of Diablo 3 and now I can't stop picturing Kalina with wings like the Diablo angels.

[Thanqol]

Well, finally got around to the artsing. Here's the linework of Rose. She looks good with that 2x4.

[Anarion]

Bloody forums. Took me nearly an hour to post two lines of text. Can't believe how annoying they are. Nice drawing Thanqol. Just stupid how slow these forums are, and how they like to switch off between 500 and 503 errors because just one error number isn't enough for them.

[Anarion]

Thanqol, I'm going to bed now. Hope you're enjoying this exchange. I think the others down below probably heard the shouting at this point as well.

I'll be back tomorrow and we shall continue.

[Thanqol]

Originally Posted by Anarion

Thanqol, I'm going to bed now. Hope you're enjoying this exchange. I think the others down below probably heard the shouting at this point as well.

I'll be back tomorrow and we shall continue.

Indeed. I never actually considered the idea of the Changeling being able to see the Fetch's true form before, that was a cool twist ^^

[SiuiS]

Originally Posted by Anarion

Bloody forums. Took me nearly an hour to post two lines of text. Can't believe how annoying they are. Nice drawing Thanqol. Just stupid how slow these forums are, and how they like to switch off between 500 and 503 errors because just one error number isn't enough for them.

It's so you know whether you need to completely redo the post or just submit again :P

Originally Posted by Thanqol

Indeed. I never actually considered the idea of the Changeling being able to see the Fetch's true form before, that was a cool twist ^^

I thought that was fairly implicit, but you seemed to say otherwise.

[Thanqol]

Originally Posted by SiuiS

I thought that was fairly implicit, but you seemed to say otherwise.

The other way to do it, which was the only way I really considered before, was having the Fetch look and act so human that the Changeling starts seriously wondering which of them is the 'real' one.

[PhoeKun]

Originally Posted by Thanqol

The other way to do it, which was the only way I really considered before, was having the Fetch look and act so human that the Changeling starts seriously wondering which of them is the 'real' one.

See, I had kind of assumed that this was the way it worked because the book so heavily emphasizes fetches being "better at being you than you are", and seeing someone with your face living your life seems like one of those Clarity-eroding visions the setting is so fond of.

Of course, on the other hand hoof hand, now Stephanie gets to see a coat rack that the whole world thinks is her. She gets a clear, "No, I'm me!" image to cling to, but now she has to watch everypony she ever knew or loved completely ignore that image. Quite a tradeoff.