The reason they haven't succeeded in replenishing their forces, is because they're busily fighting the guys who they use to replenish their forces, instead of telling them, hey, we don't like this either, lets get together and smash some faces while they're distracted. That's always been a failing of the Empire. They've been repeatedly trounced by small guerilla armies. There was a book in Oblivion, where a small king, I believe of Kvatch, rode out to engage the current emperor in battle, met him with a small force of cavalry and led him into an ambush where his entire guard was wiped out by archers and rocks.
The empire will never win a war with a clever enemy.
Which is exactly why they "lost" the war with the Thalmor. The Thalmor weren't numerically superior to the Imperials, they were just faster on the draw and better at hiding their intentions. The Empire got caught with its pants down, but as soon as they got their act back together, they trounced the Thalmor, and hung their leader from the top of White-gold Tower for 33 days just as a huge middle-finger to the High Elves.
There are a few books that mention that Mer aren't as fecund as Men. The High Elves will have a hard time replenishing their numbers before the next war. And Hammerfell (Skyrim too if you side with the Stormcloaks) are gearing up for the next war. The Empire won the last battle with one Nord legion (plus support) in the last war. What does anyone think will happen when you have more than one Nord legion going to battle?
The Empire is dead. They surrendered when they were winning, they aren't being led by Emperors with the Dragonblood anymore. And the current Emperor is a coward. He sacrificed a legion to escape Imperial City, and he only came back when he had an overwhelming force, after which he lost the guts to continue fighting.
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Originally Posted by Flickerdart
Fortunately, a Monk 1/Warblade 19 uses Iron Heart Surge to end the Monk character class, and the day is saved.
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
From the final Dark Brotherhood quest, the Emperor is very relaxed and calm when he's facing his imminent death. He doesn't fight back, scream for help or run like a coward would - all he asks is that you kill the traitor responsible for his assassination, or at least consider it, then turns his back on you to make it easier.
However I agree that while he's personally brave, he isn't a good Emperor, something completely different.
In my game, I killed Motierre as I regarded the Emperor's request as a separate contract, paid for by his compliance - Motierre's complaint of 'we had a deal' as he died isn't valid as I made no deal not to kill him after completion of his contract to kill the Emperor.
Last edited by Brother Oni : 05-18-2012 at 03:49 AM.
As for the chances of the Stormcloaks you forget a few things:
Hammerfell won their indendence,
In the lore its specifically mentioned Hammerfell won against the Thalmor because 1) the Thalmor had lost a lot of their army in the previous war 2) Hammerfell had the terrain on their side to an even greater extent than SKyrim has. Skyrim may be a frozen tundra up north, but everyone of the areas were the Redguards beat the Altmer were scorching I]deserts[/i]. 3) The Redgaurds are born warriors to an even greater extent than the Nords and finally 4) several complete imperial legions "deserted" under the emperor's orders to help them win the war.
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the Empire is legendarily incompetent (OH SURE WE'LL SIGN A PEACE TREATY THE EXACT EQUIVALENT OF SURRENDER TERMS AFTER KILLING YOUR ENTIRE ARMY, WHY NOT?!),
Because the Thalmor struck first and the entirety of the fighting took place in the Empire, they were in really bad shape. The intent of the concordant was to rebuild Cyrodiil and the damaged legions to strike first against the Thalmor during the second round, while refusing to let the Thalmor rebuild their armies by letting all combat ready legions "defect" to Hammerfell. Basically the intent attack the Thalmor through Hammerfell, while using the Concordant as a shield against retribution.
The reason the Stormcloak rebellion is such a bad thing is because it means the Empire actually have their population centres and legion training under attack, when the purpose was the Concordant was to shield these.
EDIT:
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Originally Posted by Beowulf DW
There are a few books that mention that Mer aren't as fecund as Men. The High Elves will have a hard time replenishing their numbers before the next war.
Which might be why it's a good plan to to rebuild the Empire during a peace and then strike first the second time to ensure the fighting takes place in Thalmor rather Imperial territory.
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The Empire could, and should, have let Skyrim go the same way as Hammerfell. They could pull their legions back, let the ones loyal to Ulfric defect, and watch them hop onto longships and go all Viking on the Summerset Isles. It's not like the Nords don't have a history of kicking the hell out of Elves
Also, if the Empire was attempting to be subtle and make themselves look weaker than they actually were to the Thalmor, they had to expect that they'd look weak to their own people too. If you look weak politically, you are weak.
Last edited by bluntpencil : 05-18-2012 at 07:21 AM.
The Empire could, and should, have let Skyrim go the same way as Hammerfell. They could pull their legions back, let the ones loyal to Ulfric defect, and watch them hop onto longships and go all Viking on the Summerset Isles. It's not like the Nords don't have a history of kicking the hell out of Elves
Also, if the Empire was attempting to be subtle and make themselves look weaker than they actually were to the Thalmor, they had to expect that they'd look weak to their own people too. If you look weak politically, you are weak.
I know my last post bugged out, but it is visible, right? Skyrim is critical because it's the only Imperial territory with direct access to all current Imperial territories. Allow it to go independent and Cyrodil and Morrowind get cut off from all allied territories. Without Imperial backing, Orsinium will be taken over by High Rock and High Rock is currently lukewarm regarding the Empire - if isolated, they will go independent as well. Morrowind, for what shape it's in, will completely crumble without support if it hasn't already.
Allow Skyrim to leave, and Cyrodil loses every territory it has, including three territories known for their prowess in war (Orcs, Nords, and Breton (battlemages)). The Empire dies if Skyrim goes rogue, and Ulfric isn't about to play nice under the table the way Hammerfell is.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
I know my last post bugged out, but it is visible, right? Skyrim is critical because it's the only Imperial territory with direct access to all current Imperial territories. Allow it to go independent and Cyrodil and Morrowind get cut off from all allied territories. Without Imperial backing, Orsinium will be taken over by High Rock and High Rock is currently lukewarm regarding the Empire - if isolated, they will go independent as well. Morrowind, for what shape it's in, will completely crumble without support if it hasn't already.
Allow Skyrim to leave, and Cyrodil loses every territory it has, including three territories known for their prowess in war (Orcs, Nords, and Breton (battlemages)). The Empire dies if Skyrim goes rogue, and Ulfric isn't about to play nice under the table the way Hammerfell is.
He would have played nice if they were competent. He was once an Imperial general, after all. If they had kept fighting, they wouldn't have a Civil War in Skyrim. Sure, they wouldn't have the time to build up more troops, but they wouldn't have potentially lost a critical province.
The pretending not to do things and being subtle to trick the Thalmor is a double-edged sword, as if you want their agents to believe this, your people have to believe it too. And if the people believe it, you're screwed.
In the lore its specifically mentioned Hammerfell won against the Thalmor because 1) the Thalmor had lost a lot of their army in the previous war 2) Hammerfell had the terrain on their side to an even greater extent than SKyrim has. Skyrim may be a frozen tundra up north, but everyone of the areas were the Redguards beat the Altmer were scorching I]deserts[/i]. 3) The Redgaurds are born warriors to an even greater extent than the Nords and finally 4) several complete imperial legions "deserted" under the emperor's orders to help them win the war.
So, the emperor just sends out foreign aid package to fight against thalmor by disbanding them and leting them join the resistance.
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Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
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Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
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So, the emperor just sends out foreign aid package to fight against thalmor by disbanding them and leting them join the resistance.
Yeah, pretty much.
Basically gives him the ability to look the Thalmor in the eye, shrug, and say, "$&#% if I know. I had no clue what they were up to, since, you know, I fired those guys weeks ago. Kinda sucks about them siding with the Redguard resistance and kicking your asses out of Hammerfall. Well, good luck with it. Hope your forces doen't get slaughted by die-hard warriors and highly trained ex-Legionairs."
It hurts the Thalmore, keeps the Redguard as a secret allie, and buys the Empire a bit more time to recover. Pretty brilliant, actually.
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"How're we doing?"
"The dwarf's on fire."
"So as bad as usual, huh?"
No, no there aren't. There's the old ruins of houses that were abandoned, and that's it, but...
...The Mages do admittedly have no idea Health And Safety means. Or collateral. Nutty wizards.
According to citizens there have been quite recent accidents, the ruins look new, and the mages are idiots.
Pardon me for making a connection.
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Spoken of? By who? I've never heard it brought up by any NPC. Heck, the one place that you could even try to claim that for is the farm outside Windhelm, which turns out to be mostly fine after the battle ends.
Murder ; What? When?
Arrest ; Derp? They're the law-making Empire that rules the lands.
Mistreatment ; Aside from the overzealous Captain at the beginning of the game, when?
Did you...
did you ever talk to the stormcloaks?
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Yes, the Imperials managed to catch the Thalmor in the Imperial City and kill an army... After losing all of thier regular legions and going for the emergency conscription to replace thier losses. Anything that kept the war going would be the end of Cyrodiil.
No, they killed the army.
The Aldmer were equally incapable of continuing the war, and the terms were equivalent to surrendering without a fight.
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Incorrect. Unless you're referring to the way that Imperials were Atmorans who left home a few centuries before the Nords did.
Aaaand now I'm certain you haven't talk to the Stormcloaks.
The legion is mostly Nord.
I'm pretty sure there's an Imperial who confirms this but don't quote me on that.
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By Skyrim law the Moot still has to pick a High King, by legal law Ulfric murdered Torigg, the Stormcloaks hit first by KILLING the current High King, and logic.... ASDGHEWeHRSDRG. I'm not going to touch that with a ten foot pole.
We've been over why Skyrim would do better militarily without the empire to bog it down.
The duel was legal and accepted by Torygg, he knew the risk and lost.
It's not murder by any definition of the word, and the Imperial accusation of such does not rest on the kill itself.
Torygg himself shows no sign of having a grudge, and I'll be damned if the only people calling it murder aren't the ones who stand to lose by Ulfric becoming king.
As for the moot, had the Imperials not interfered he would have won the vote quite handily.
Last edited by Opperhapsen : 05-18-2012 at 08:14 PM.
We've been over why Skyrim would do better militarily without the empire to bog it down.
I can't see this. It will be much harder to project force if Cyrodill is in the way and they can't get any support from them if they want to go on the offensive. On the defensive, now they can't get any support from the other provinces. If they just let the Thalmor take all the other provinces, they're screwed when the Thalmor swarm. Well I suppose they might get out with the dragonborn storm calling everything, but if that's the case they're fine on the defensive either way. Letting everyone else fend for themselves is a sure way to all die to the Thalmor.
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The duel was legal and accepted by Torygg, he knew the risk and lost.
It's not murder by any definition of the word, and the Imperial accusation of such does not rest on the kill itself.
Torygg himself shows no sign of having a grudge, and I'll be damned if the only people calling it murder aren't the ones who stand to lose by Ulfric becoming king.
As for the moot, had the Imperials not interfered he would have won the vote quite handily.
Unfortunately, Ulfric just shouted him and stab him to death (even Torygg doesn't like it when you meet him in viking heaven). That is kinda overkill.
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Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
In the lore its specifically mentioned Hammerfell won against the Thalmor because 1) the Thalmor had lost a lot of their army in the previous war 2) Hammerfell had the terrain on their side to an even greater extent than SKyrim has. Skyrim may be a frozen tundra up north, but everyone of the areas were the Redguards beat the Altmer were scorching I]deserts[/i]. 3) The Redgaurds are born warriors to an even greater extent than the Nords and finally 4) several complete imperial legions "deserted" under the emperor's orders to help them win the war.
I remember that book. It was written by an Imperial general. His boss is the Emperor. Of course he's going to try and make the Empire's decisions look good.
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Originally Posted by Flickerdart
Fortunately, a Monk 1/Warblade 19 uses Iron Heart Surge to end the Monk character class, and the day is saved.
According to citizens there have been quite recent accidents, the ruins look new, and the mages are idiots.
Pardon me for making a connection.
The ruins look about as old as every other hole in the ground across Skyrim's landscape. There have been recent accidents, but the reason there's noone there is the Great Collapse, which is blamed on Mages for purely superstitious reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opperhapsen
Did you...
did you ever talk to the stormcloaks?
Yes. Though I never made it anywhere near all the way though thier storyline, because I felt terrible for even joining thier side. It's like the Thieves Guild in Skyrim. With more fanatism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opperhapsen
No, they killed the army.
The Aldmer were equally incapable of continuing the war, and the terms were equivalent to surrendering without a fight.
AN army. THE occupational army, sure. But that's hardly the entire armed forces of the Thalmor. The terms were equivalent to wanting to survive winter, since they're already down three legions worth of men and need to have someone left over to do farming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opperhapsen
Aaaand now I'm certain you haven't talk to the Stormcloaks.
The legion is mostly Nord.
I'm pretty sure there's an Imperial who confirms this but don't quote me on that.
See the thing is, accusing me of not talking to the Stormcloaks when you're not even operating under the lore of the games for the purposes of your arguement is hypocritical at best.
The Legion was mostly Imperial, followed second by Nord. The remaining Legion troops might be majorly Nord, but that would merely be due to the loss of two full Colovian Legions that had the hostilities opened on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opperhapsen
We've been over why Skyrim would do better militarily without the empire to bog it down.
Yes, we've been over why you are wrong about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opperhapsen
The duel was legal and accepted by Torygg, he knew the risk and lost.
It's not murder by any definition of the word, and the Imperial accusation of such does not rest on the kill itself.
Torygg himself shows no sign of having a grudge, and I'll be damned if the only people calling it murder aren't the ones who stand to lose by Ulfric becoming king.
The duel was traditional, not legal. Torygg accepting or not has nothing to do with it. Duels aren't a legal part of Imperial Law that Skyrim runs under. Thus, illegal, and thus murder. Torygg also infers that Ulfric is a coward, if we want to use him as a character witness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opperhapsen
As for the moot, had the Imperials not interfered he would have won the vote quite handily.
...Proof? He has quite a few detractors that aren't the Imperials, and Elisif has a strong claim that she's not trying to enforce on the end of a sword. Egomaniac versus nervous High Widow.
Also, for an above post about Ulfric ; he was a footsoldier in the Legion (Albiet likely a high ranking one to be friends with Rikke), and later became an impromptu General when forcing the Forsaken back out of Markarth.
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Oh yeah. I can totally see Solid Snake going FUS RO DAH all up in Big Boss' business. Epic!
Maybe I should put this as "The second medieval stealth game after thief".
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Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
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Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
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Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
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The Elder Scrolls Online Video Interview and Faction Profile
GameInformer has released two new articles on The Elder Scrolls Online. The first is a video interview with ZeniMax Online's Matt Firor on what makes the title "a modern MMO", which apparently includes a 100% solo main questline with instanced bosses, less of a reliance on quest givers, which in the intention of the developers should give players more freedom to explore, and how he and the team plan to handle feedback. The second is the third and final faction profile, which details the Ebonheart pact. Here's a snip from it:
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“About 50 years prior to the game, an Akaviri invasion came in and basically tried to take over,” says creative director Paul Sage. “What happens now is that the Dunmer and the Nords have formed an alliance because the attack was so bad that they realized they were weak to the Imperial rise. So they form an alliance of convenience with the Argonians. They’re surrounded by all these tides of opposing forces. They feel really threatened, so the Ebonheart’s entire purpose is to band together and make sure they’re no longer in danger.”
You know? I just can't get excited for ESO. I just don't have any interest in it. Even though I have the connection to play it, more or less, I just... don't see the appeal. Given how heavily I've modified my Oblivion, and Skyrim, and both F3, and F:NV, I don't see the appeal of playing a game I can't modify to deal with the bugs which will exist.
And even though it's 'Zenimax online' doing it, and not Bethesda, these days it's almost entirely a question of 'how bad the bugs will be', as opposed to 'will there be bugs'. At least with Skyrim, we were afforded the opportunity to mod the game and correct them. MMO's are unmoddable by nature due to the 'no-cheating' atmosphere surrounding them.
So it's probably the game I'm LEAST excited for. I'd much rather see Dawnguard.
I havent played any of the games in the series, but Im not sure I want to after a critic I really trust essentially said that skyrim is very big but filled with nothing substantial. What do you guys think?
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It's MASSIVE. And yes, it can feel empty. But have a look at large areas of plains anywhere in the world, and you see that those are pretty empty too. And where there are things, they are really well crafted things.
Besides, it's fun.
At best I can say play it yourself, and decide for yourself. There's no other way to choose.
I'd say it really depends on what would you expect from the game. As far as exploration goes, there are some areas which don't have too many things to explore, but at the same time there are those, which are filled to the brim with stuff to see (even if some of those are small, scenic places). Dungeons vary in size from small (a room or two + some corridors) to massive complexes (with a cave the size of a small state).
If you want your actions to have a visible impact on the world, it's not really that good - while some things do change, the ingame impact of these is rather small (though as far as the world is concerned, they are important).
The plot isn't the strongest part of the game (especcially if you didn't have any contact with the series - while anyone can enjoy it, hardcore fans who get to meet certain people in the main quest can get an awesomegasm ;) ).
While it does have many flaws, for me it is a really fun and enjoyable game - and if you'd get it on the PC, the world of mods openes - and those can be almost whole new games.
Hmmm. That doesn't sound like a game for me. I prefer smaller, but better developed places to wide open places with just lots of walking. The world doesn't seem to be that varied which could get dull.
Im sure its an enthralling game but its not for me.
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From the looks of it, the combat reminds me of minecraft (Not that good a thing), the quests sound like MMO fodder.
You're right about the "minecraft" combat. There may be a little more customization but it boils down to hack and slash. It's incredibly easy and almost a joke, especially since they didn't include level scaling.
Which is why I always scratch my head when people complain about Oblivion's level scaling. In Morrowind, static enemy levels worked because of their combat system. You could still miss even if you hit an enemy's hitbox. Whereas with Oblivion, you hit every time, so the easiest solution is to have enemies level with you.
Skyrim takes Morrowind's static levels and SOME of Oblivion's scaling and... it's a mess. Almost all the skill trees can make it so you break the game. On my second playthrough (first was a stealth archer - hoo boy, welcome to easy mode central) I made an orc two-handed weapon fighter who: 1. Played on the hardest difficulty, 2. Didn't use any form of magic. 3. Couldn't use enchantments. 4. Didn't use bows, or stealth ever. 5. Couldn't use his berserk power. 6. Couldn't use potions. 7. Didn't use shouts, unless the quest forced you to.
And it was still a cakewalk.
If you're looking for a challenge, you won't find it in Skyrim. Even intentionally trying to make it hard doesn't work. If you're looking for a game to casually play, you'll probably enjoy it.
I feel Skyrim is the weakest of the past three games, honestly. I'm in the minority that thinks Oblivion is better.
(As for the quests - they're not MMO fodder, not really. But some are.)
Which is why I always scratch my head when people complain about Oblivion's level scaling. In Morrowind, static enemy levels worked because of their combat system. You could still miss even if you hit an enemy's hitbox. Whereas with Oblivion, you hit every time, so the easiest solution is to have enemies level with you.
Because level scaling is a terrible, horrible joke for any variety of immersion.
Enemies By Level :
1-5 Wolf, Bandit in fur/iron
6-10 Dire Wolf, Bandit in Leather/Steel
11-15 Bear, Bandit in Chainmail/Dwarven
16-20 Troll, Bandit in Elven/Ebony
21-25 Minotaur, Bandit in Glass/Daedric
This chart isn't actually accurate to the ingame scaling, but it lets me get the point across ; WHERE THE HECK DID THE PREVIOUS LEVEL ANIMALS GO? And if these Cave Troll/Minotaurs came and killed them all, why hadn't that already happened when I was a lower level? Why are bandits in Daedric armour that they could sell for tens of thousands of gold mugging me for 20 septims? Where did they get all this daedric stuff? How does the Imperial Legion manage to keep the bandits out of the cities when they're wearing better gear?
Morrowind's static enemies worked because the higher level enemies stayed in thier respective home areas, and you were screwed for wandering into them without a high enough Player skill. This was enforced and informed about ingame, both by all the early quests leading you around the weak areas, and by NPCs telling you "Hey, this place is hella deadly.", and the terrain tended to give you hints about the level. If it's full of lava and grey, it's deadly. If it's green and dirty it's probably not deadly. If it's a open plain, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE YOU'RE IN THE SHEOGORAD REGION. Bandit caves are always a crapshoot on if they'll be deadly or not. Usually not.
...
But, anyway. The combat system isn't TES's strong point, and Skyrim's monster system is... Okay. Somewhere between Oblivion and Morrowind in it's implementation.
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Honestly, as good of a first impression as Skyrim does make, particularly in comparison to Oblivion, it's much harder if you add mods. And a lot of mod authors recognize that. Warzones has huge numbers of NPC's and they're tougher than the regular versions. Can a high level character mow through them? Sure, but you're expected to be able to mow through them.
Deadly Dragons vastly ups the difficulty of those fights. Particularly the very high level ones. Nether Drakes aren't bad. Storm Dragons are a pain even for high level characters. Lightning Breath that leaves Lightning Wall hazards behind. It hurts even with magic resistance.
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