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Homebrew Design Roll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.

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Old 05-22-2012, 10:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
eftexar
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Default ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Description: There are those who not only control's shadows, but also alters the real world by manipulating it's reflections. Though having control over the world's reflections could be argued to mean complete control over reality, one has to wonder how much control the reflections have over the those who claim to control them.

The Shadowcaster
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
eftexar
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Default ToM (e6 [3.5], PEACH)

Description: Though shadow magic alters and provide control to reality, it does not command it as the words of truepseak. There are those who have learned magic at the most fundamental level, if it can even be called magic anymore. These are the words of creation themselves, even if only fragments.

The Wordsmith
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:10 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
eftexar
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Description: They have existed since before the dawn of true magic and will continue to exist even once it has died. They command power beyond the gods and even beyond the far realms. They have power beyond your understanding.

The Witch
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
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Default ToM (e6 [3.5], PEACH)

Description: While shadowcaster's and wordsmith's command the world around them and the witch's control the world beyond them, there are those who have managed to use a power all their own. This power, drawn from their own essence and their very soul, is something that frightens the gods more. For only mortals may wield it.

most archetypes for this class still in progress

Soul Blade
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:10 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Description:There are those, however, more terrifying than any other. These people are able to steal the ability and potential of others to use for their own. Perhaps more frighteningly is their ability to amplify this stolen power with their own.

The Haze
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:21 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
nonsi
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

I'd land a hand, except I'm not much of a ToM expert.
What I do know about ToM (some from rumors and some from a personal point of view) is that practically anything a Shadowcaster can accomplish - so can a Wizard, that trunaming is just another way of saying "spellcasting" and that maximizing the power potential of the Binder is extremely complicated (once saw a Binder guide and it went on like forever).

I've yet to see their true added value to D&D.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:47 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Too bad you can't lend a hand nonsi, but thanks for showing interest. It's always frustrating when nobody replies.. at all...

Most of the thing with those classes is really flavor, though the truenamer has a few unique effects that a wizard can't do and the shadowcaster is really just themed magic (though it has a couple of cool things like an immediate action teleport and the ability to recast spells cast nearby).

Unfortunately the shadowcaster is semi-broken in the exact opposite way of the wizard (instead of being too powerful, it is too weak) and the truenamer doesn't work at higher levels (which isn't an issue here).
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
Too bad you can't lend a hand nonsi, but thanks for showing interest. It's always frustrating when nobody replies.. at all...
Yeah, I know what you mean, but no need to get offended. It took me a while, but I now understand that people (especially homebrewers, which use their brain power more than the average riffraff) usually reply when they believe they have something to contribute.
In my case it happens quite a lot, because my ideas and preferences are usually unorthodox and people find it hard to connect.
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:08 AM   Top  -  End  -  #9
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

No arguments, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating... Anyways here I go bumping the thread again.

It'll probably be a little while before I start on the binder, because I was thinking about doing a summon visage thing, which could result in some pretty sweeping changes (and I'm still a little tight on time). But the other two are up.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:32 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
The Zoat
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

I like this, but can't really say much beyond that until you're done.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Alrighty then. All of the classes are playable and the shadowcaster, as before, is completely finished. Some archetypes are still unfinished.

---------------

I am officially begging for peaches now...
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Last edited by eftexar : 05-27-2012 at 06:13 PM. Reason: bump / combine double post
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:09 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

These are very well done. I don't have any real input. In the event that I ever run an E6 campaign I will definitely use these.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Well a compliment's better than nothing, so thanks. If you do run a game please tell me how it goes. Unfortunately I can't play test all of them, if any at all, right now.

Anyways I have all 3 of the primary classes done, except for a single wordsmith archetype (truthfully I have no ideas for it) and possibly a couple more for the witch if I feel like it.

Also two more classes will be up, including the soul blade, which will be an incarnum-inspired rehash.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:33 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Once I am not incredibly tired and slightly inebriated (i.e., tomorrow), I will give these a thorough once-over. Any friend of E6 is a friend of mine.

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Old 05-28-2012, 07:52 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Thanks Gnorman, I eagerly await the master of e6's critique. This is my first real venture into that territory so I'm not sure about balance at all.

I guess this sort of went from doing the tome of magic, to just a bunch of different weird types of magic. Anyways all of the classes are up, though the soul blade only has one archetype right now. I still need to finish three more archetypes for it and then I want to add a few more for most of the classes whenever I can think of new ideas (my creativity is somewhat sapped after all of the other archetypes).
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Okay, I have to preface my critique with this statement: I am far from an expert on the subsystems introduced in Tome of Magic and Magic of Incarnum. I have read them, but I have not spent a very long time with them. I am most familiar with binders out of those choices - I am least familiar with shadowcasting.

Anyway.

Shadowcaster

Seems good to me. With Discorporate, how long does he take to reform? Instantly? The amount of time is not given. It's a good, conditional "save your ass from the fire" ability. The Shadow Master's Arcane Ink is too real, I think, for its power level - shadow conjuration, a 4th level spell, is only 20% real. Shadow Warrior's Shadow Craft ability is ripe for abuse - though you specifically call out alchemical items or ones with moving parts, what's stopping me from creating a "+5 Holy Avenger"? Longswords only weigh about four or five pounds. Given the static craft DC and no moratorium on magical items being created out of shadow, the above example is technically legal. Far Shadows is awkward, given that the only way to get more than an additional five feet of reach is to have a 20 foot reach (extremely unlikely in an E6 game, though not entirely out of the question - would require you to be Huge, if I'm calculating correctly) - why not just say "an additional five feet of reach"?

Those are the issues that immediately jump to mind - everything else looks good. I'll approach the others a bit later.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:14 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Discoporate was originally supposed to be immediately, but I think a delay fits the theme better. This has been clarified.

I reduced the effects of arcane ink to 20%, but I kept damage. Damage really isn't as big a deal and I think anything below half would be irrelevant and pointless in the scheme of things.

Shadowcraft no longer functions with magical items. It was based off of the original shadowcraft ability in ToM which inferred that restriction (but never actually stated it).

Far shadows now has a +5ft to reach, but also has a clause for ranged weapons. Including ranged was part of the original awkwardness.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:22 AM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Wordsmith

Looks mostly okay. I don't know enough about how truenaming works to criticize many specifics, but the Librarian & Terraformer gain access to abilities much, much earlier than normal - 5th level utterances, even from the lexicon of the crafted tool? I'd keep it to 3rd level.

Witch

Does Hex have a save? How many targets can a witch hex at one time?

Vestige Manifest looks like a really cool ability.

Grand Binding's wording should be changed to "suppress" rather than "sacrifice" - sacrifice implies that the witch is permanently giving it up, even though you say otherwise.

Spell Binder's abilities are confusing - I don't understand how the spell failure adds up with other sources of it (you say "in addition, but separately?" Why not just add it all up [statistically it is the same]). What happens when a Charm Person spell is reflected on a caster? Does he start to reeeeeally like himself? I think Eldritch Magnetism needs some clarification, specifically this phrase: "The witch may not store any number of spells who's level exceed twice her witch level". What about "The witch may only store a number of spells levels equal to or less than twice her witch level."

Animus: spontaneous casting off two pretty decent lists? Yes please, even if I have to give up my powers. Makes for a fantastic utility caster. Mageblood could potentially be extremely overpowered - what if I take True Strike? I'll never miss again. Should also be termed a "spell-like ability."

Druid: ranger spells aren't quite as good, so not quite as useful. Wildshape should probably suppress vestige powers (otherwise, it's a little too good). The swarm ability is... I'll be honest, I can't quite puzzle it out. Let me get back to you on that.

Occultist: looks mostly good. Could make for a great necromancer once it gets Animate Dead. However, there's a common problem with all three of the "spellcasting" archetypes - the method of casting the spell isn't spelled out entirely. Do they require components? Foci? Is the action the same as required by the spell? Are they arcane or divine? Is the ability Su?

Apostate: sacrifice versatility for power. This one works for me, though if you are "always bonded," why do you include the clause that you have to always bind it once you gain multiple vestiges? Isn't it unnecessary?
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #19
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Holy scheissballs, that Soul Blade is POWERFUL.

Seriously, that guy is going to WRECK parties.
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Alright here we go Gnorman,

I have no problem dropping the crafted tool utterances to 3rd and 4th level, but they are pretty weak so I don't think I want to reduce them to 3rd. As far as the terraformer goes, yeah I guess they are granted pretty early, but I'm not sure how else to handle it.

Now onto the witch. Hex now has a save and grand binding's wording has been changed from sacrifice to suppress.

I will work on clarifying spell binder later, because I'm not really sure about it right now.

If you reread it the animus only allows access to a single one of the two spells lists, not both. Mageblood only allows touch spells now, stopping a lot of shenanigans.

The druid's wildshape has been changed to suppress vestiges. Should I grant the druid list instead of the ranger list maybe?

Spells use same components and actions as the spells (I figure this is inferred). I added divine or arcane tags to them and save DCs.

The wording in apostate is probably a little redundent, but I figured just to be on the safe side...


And as to your thoughts Morph Bark, I don't think the soul blade is really that powerful. He only gets 6 soulmelds, and is only granted the basic effect of each which grant paltry bonuses anyways (+1d6 to attack is perhaps the most altering, with most being minor feats or skill bonuses). Also keep in mind that essentia doesn't exist here to be spent on soulmeld power increases.
He can't have more than 3 chakra binds active, because of their essence cost, and his champion of light archetype abilities allows a bit of healing and approxamately one strike (if he spent his essence on all chakra binds), with a +3d6 to damage (which isn't much more than the rogue).
Timeless might be too powerful for an e6 class, but really has no effects on combat or interactions.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
And as to your thoughts Morph Bark, I don't think the soul blade is really that powerful. He only gets 6 soulmelds, and is only granted the basic effect of each which grant paltry bonuses anyways (+1d6 to attack is perhaps the most altering, with most being minor feats or skill bonuses). Also keep in mind that essentia doesn't exist here to be spent on soulmeld power increases.
He can't have more than 3 chakra binds active, because of their essence cost, and his champion of light archetype abilities allows a bit of healing and approxamately one strike (if he spent his essence on all chakra binds), with a +3d6 to damage (which isn't much more than the rogue).
Timeless might be too powerful for an e6 class, but really has no effects on combat or interactions.
You don't consider getting all chakras earlier than the Incarnate, including the Heart and Soul chakras over 15 levels early, to which he can bind more than three soulmelds (up to ten even, one to each chakra) of any class list due to getting a lot of essentia from feats, in which he can invest 3 essentia each (level 6 + Expanded Soulmeld Capacity), powerful?

Or the fact that he gets roughly twice as much essentia as Incarnates or Totemists of his level and can easily get fast healing 4 at level 4 forever?

If that ain't powerful in your eyes than I have to wonder what kind of optimizing gurus you regularly play with, 'cause dayum, son.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Remember no essentia exists here (please search the post)? Did you read, at all, how he uses soulmelds? How about my entire post which specifically restated this (which you even quoted)? This system is not the same as in incarnum. To sum it up (in bold):
Spoiler

I feel really obnoxious now...
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:38 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Just a quick comment, I'll try to analyze things more later on, but I think that the increasing costs of Form Chakra depending on the level it was acquired is a bit harsh, seeing as they can still only know 6 (without feats), and that, as written, he is forced to pick his 3 best choices early on if he wants to use them at the same time (he can't afford to bind his 4th, 5th and 6th choice at the same time).

I know you said no essentia exists, but I'd say it would be better to let them bind freely (no associated cost), and invest some essentia into their binds (which would make them a bit more powerful, but shouldn't break them), maybe up to half level, round down (or up), giving them something like 5 or 6 "essentia" as they level to improve them (1 per level or something like that).

Also, on the other classes, at a glance, they look pretty good, and I have to say that with these and Gnorman's, I might just have to convince my group to return to D&D for some E6 action.

EDIT I think the Wordsmith should get something to reduce the effects of the law of resistance, and/or reduce the base dc for utterances (I'd look at Gnorman's Didact Sage archetype for inspiration, what he did seems to work pretty well, although with both abilities, it might be a bit too good)
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
Remember no essentia exists here (please search the post)? Did you read, at all, how he uses soulmelds? How about my entire post which specifically restated this (which you even quoted)? This system is not the same as in incarnum. To sum it up (in bold):
  1. The soul blade does not get essentia, period. It does not exist here, at all. As such he has only the base bonuses and nothing more.
  2. He can't gain more than 3 chakra binds. not that it was asked, but thought I would clarify
  3. Chakra's (such as heart and soul) don't actually increase much in power from their cousins. The base statistics are actually worse for those than some others.
  4. He can't shape more than 6 soulmelds at a time and is limited to no more than 1 from the list of soulmelds at each level.
Please read it first. The only thing you might argue here is that I have to note that he does not qualify for essentia-based feats.

So to sum it up the total of things gained equates to something along these lines:
Spoiler


So yes it does progress at a higher rate than at which soulmelds are normally gained, but nowhere near as high as you claim. Not only that, but they remain weak because there is no essentia. The soul blade is actually still the weakest on the list here.

I feel really obnoxious now...
Since at no point you made a difference between "essence" and "essentia" in the class itself, how are we supposed to know they are different? Nowhere do you say that essence cannot be invested in soulmelds, so obviously those who read it are going to assume the default, being that you can.

I read over that the Soul Blade can only have one soulmeld shaped per level by accident, sorry.

At no point does the class say you can only have 3 soulmelds bound to chakras. Granted, with essence =/= essentia, you have limits on how many you can bind, but then its still up to 5 at level with your 10 essence.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
eftexar
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

They are two different power sources. That's like saying power points can be used to cast spells. If I had meant essentia I would have said essentia, so I'm not really seeing the issue here.
edit / And it is still impossible for more than 3 chakra binds. It says so specifically under one of the abilities. /edit

And Dread Jester, good call. I think having them have no cost and just limiting them a certain number would work. It would free up essence for their other abilities more, which I think is a good thing. As to adding essentia back in, I'll have to think about that a little more.
I'm not sure if giving a reduction to utterance DCs would be a good idea or not. Lets see math... 15 + 12 = 27 vs skill of 9 and 4 modifier with d20, needs a roll of 14. Ah, guess you were right. I'm thinking add the class level to all truespeak checks is the way to go here.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
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Default Re: ToM; by Mystery, Utterance, and Vestige (e6 conversion [3.5], PEACH)

Essentia is often misspelled as essence, even by veteran players, me included. Plus, if it shapes soulmelds, binds them to chakras and uses "the power of their soul" then that pretty damn clearly sounds like incarnum.

If you don't intend for it to be incarnum, don't use any of the basic concepts of incarnum.
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