Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

[Thufir]

Originally Posted by factotum

Spoiler

New companion's name is Carla, not Oswin, and you've obviously all forgotten that Karen Gillan appeared as a soothsayer in Pompeii long before she became a companion--as far as I know, the two characters were never supposed to be related, despite being played by the same actress.

Spoiler

In the same season of the show? Nuh uh. Pull the other one, it's got bells on. They have to be the same character.
Also, yeah, Clara Oswin, I was paying attention to what SV said.

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

'The Wedding of River Song' (season 6b, ep 13)

Spoiler

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

In-universe acknowledgement about the death of the Brig. *sheds a tear* No fair. No fair at all.

Actually possibly my favourite moment of that episode.

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

RORY'S DOING A SACRIFICE -

AND HIS EYEPATCH HAS ACTIVATED! *dies a little inside*

Rory you neverending badass! Your badassery is a universal constant!

And that would be the best bit of the second half of the episode.

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

River built a distress beacon to everywhen everywhere asking for help to save the Doctor. Weren't there all those distress calls last season?

I don't think so? The Pandorica broadcast something basically drawing everyone to it, but not a distress call.
However you are right about the previous finale also having the time gone screwy thing (Which I forgot to quote further up), though it was more background in that one.

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

Worst Moment: River's more than a bit selfish. Didn't like her forcing him into marriage. I call one-sided love.

Yeah, I didn't really like River in that episode. And she really dominated the second half of it, which is why that's the half a Moffat episode which misses the cut of episodes I love.

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

Worst Actor: Kovarian. Most unimpressive gloating prisoner-who-is-not ever.

I didn't think she acted it badly, more just the character was rather wasted. As were the Silents, for that matter.

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

And the way this episode was told was jarring frankly. The cuts between present and past could have been a lot smoother and narratively I felt yanked around, which is not a good thing when attmpting to tell a coherent story.

Huh. Actually, I really liked the flashback bits at the start (As I've pretty much said, I really liked the first half of the episode)

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

'Asylum of the Daleks' (season 7a, ep. 1)

Spoiler

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

SKARO!

YOU BLEW IT UP WHEN YOU WERE SEVEN! I SAW YOU DO IT!

a) Technically he tricked Davros into doing it for him.
b) Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey...

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

SG: "Tell me I'm cool Jim-boy."

"Chin-boy." Because of his chin. Like Rory's nose. So I guess following the trend Amy would be Legs-girl?

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

Wait. But in 'Dalek' it committed suicide being marginally comtaminated by human DNA. Eh. Special exception I guess.

Well, it's going the opposite direction. Daleks can't stand the idea of being part anything else and would kill themselves rather than continue so. But she started as human, and humans are more likely to go to denial before suicide.

Originally Posted by CurlyKitGirl

if a Dalek looks like a human, who's to say my sibling isn't one? Or my parents? Or anyone I know.

Ah, yes. So now Moffat has added every person in the world to the list of things he's made terrifying, along with ticking clocks, statues and shadows.

Originally Posted by Sunken Valley

New point

Spoiler

Plot hole: How did they get all the gold Daleks in the Parliament? I thought the gold brand was wiped out.

Spoiler

They made more?

Originally Posted by Sunken Valley

Thufir

Spoiler

It's selfish because Rory and Amy still loved each other. And I think Amy's being stupid. Did Ellie kick Carl out (Up reference)? No!

As per your marks on my needing of citation, I got them off DWM and Radio Times again. Moffat has never directly insulted Davies, but he has said that "he" made Doctor Who an event, implying Davis didn't. He said he "rescued" the ood from "the past", Davies's past. And he said that he would make Dr Who "better than ever", Better than Davies.

Spoiler

Stupid, yes. Selfish, really, seriously, no. Selfless, in fact.

And, well, of course Moffat says he's going to make Who better than ever. Any show-runner would say the same, because that's always what you try to do with anything. I'm not going to comment on specifics without specific quotes to respond to, with context, but I think you're allowing your negative view of Moffat to colour your perception of perfectly innocent comments.

[LokeyITP]

The worm has turned, now Sunken Valley's the apologist :)

Production values: A+ (some camera-work above even normal Dr Who brilliance)
Dialog: C+ (some of it was flat for Moffat standards)
Story: B- (could have been done without that much canon change, otherwise fun)
Acting: A (didn't have any problems with any of the performances. also see spoiler.)

Watched with friends so probably missed too much to be too critical.

Spoiler

Onoz, 4 months until more Jenna Coleman. Great debut performance, but she did have a lot of the best lines and it was her character's story too.

[Eldan]

Originally Posted by Sunken Valley

Eldan
I distinctly remember you saying you didn’t care about Dr Who after the Christmas episode.

Well, yeah, but that was then

What I said was, indeed, that the last season, especially towards the end, and the mediocre Christmas episode had managed to make me temporarily uninterested in Who. It doesn't help that I still don't really like Matt Smith as an actor, he often seems flat and emotionless to me.

But it seems that overall in hindsight, I still see Who as more positive than negative and I'm willing to give it more chances. If this season turns out like the last one, however, I think I'll just start looking around for classic Who and watch that instead.

[Avaris]

Originally Posted by LokeyITP

Spoiler

Onoz, 4 months until more Jenna Coleman. Great debut performance, but she did have a lot of the best lines and it was her character's story too.

Spoiler

...
I've just realised... We don't know that.

They kept her appearance hidden until now... she could show up again in this series... we just don't know

Regarding the episode, I think it's the best opener to a season yet (which isn't necessarily a high bar to beat, but still...). I hadn't figured out the plot twist until the reveal, though I appear to be the only one who ddn't!

Spoiler

Little annoyed with the Skaro ret-con: would like to see it explained how it still exists. However I'm going to argue in favour of the having the daleks forget the Doctor.

Granted, part of the appeal of the Daleks is their shared history, but in recent years their fear of the doctor has become a major theme in all their appearances. This diminishes them... their plans are always going to be restrained and designed to avoid him... without that fear, they become much more dangerous. It also gives more peril for the main characters: as the daleks point out, they've never taken the chance to kill the doctor, possibly because of what he is to them. Now they can.

In general, this is another part of the change in tack that Who is taking, to free itself from past history. The Doctor is famous, and it is expected that people will have heard of him and react accordingly. IMO recent years have seen the Doctor become too known, where he can defeat foes simply by saying 'look me up'. That doesn't seem healthy for the series long term, better for him to be forgotten.

[Friv]

Originally Posted by Thufir

Spoiler

How so? In what way was it selfish for Amy to give up Rory in the hopes he could have the children he wanted with someone else?

Spoiler

It's less selfish, and more making a wildly unilateral decision, without any conversation, for a situation that's fairly easily solved. (I mean, yes, adoption isn't necessarily "simple", but it's easier than divorcing your soulmate.) It's insanely narcissistic, and a lot of people confused self-involvement with self-interest.

But then, insane self-involvement has always been Amy's main character flaw, so it was also kind of believable.

My friends and I are attempting to start a meme indicating that Amy and Rory's relationship is so intense, they divorce the way other couples have arguments.

AMY: "How's the casserole?"
RORY: "Not bad."
AMY: "It needs more salt. You deserve a wife who can prepare better food! That's it, I want a divorce!"

RORY: "Amy, could you get some milk at the store?"
AMY: "We ran out of milk?!? That's it, you deserve a wife who can keep things onhand! Divorce!!!"

RORY: "Well, here we are, working with the Doctor again."
AMY: "It's all my fault! If you weren't married to me, you wouldn't end up fighting Daleks all the time!!"
RORY: "It's really fine..."
AMY: "DIVORCE!!!!!"

[Eldan]

Spoiler

Several comments, but first, something I noticed in Curly's review:

So what's Oswin Oswald - isn't that a boy's name?

I think that's the key here, and I only noticed it when I read it. She had a friend who called herself Rory instead of Oswald. Calling it now, she is calling herself Oswin instead of Carla.

Didn't figure she'd be a Dalek until quite late. But when the Doctor started calling her Genius, I was all ready to come in here and call "Rani!"

Strange: same punchline as that awful, awful finale. But here it worked. Until the Doctor said it himself while doing that weird semi-dance. That overdid it.

[Kato]

Ah, new episode... I'll be quick about it.

Spoiler

Well, where to start... I clearly liked the episode. It wasn't perfect but it was great. Lots of funny bits, scary bits, awesome bits. What I want when I watch Who. So I won't say what I liked but what I have problems with.

a) Amy and Rory. Okay, first off, I'm not quite sure what Amy meant, whether she is actually sterile or whether she just couldn't handle having another kid. If the former, I'd call her stupid. Yes, I know, people make a big deal about having biological children but dropping your soulmate without even explaining it to him and... urgh, no. That was not nice or selfless or anything. That was stupid.
If the latter it's a slightly different thing, if he really wants them and she can not possibly have them... or thinks she can not. Still, leaving him without any explanantion is stupid anyway, albeit in my opinion slightly less stupid. But... it really did not work for me. Also, I new they'd make up. My faith is strong in few things in the universe but Rory and Amy are universe' OTP The Doctor believing so strong in that he'd let Amy become a Dalek is still a little bit... weird...

b) Dalek Carla/Oswin/whatever. I... had some suspicions but was only sure when it was almost revealed. It worked well enough, either way but.. I WANTED A DALEK COMPANION! That would have been so sweet! Damn you Moffat, why couldn't you... So mean... But the... well, pun was quite nice. At first I thought he was just going to repeat the joke he made with Rory earlier... also, new Rory fact: "Rory is surrounded by Daleks. He plays charade with them."
But... as others noted, I think Curly as well. Daleks do not assimilate. They just don't. They'd acknowledge a non-Dalek is superior to them. But I'll give it a pass because they were insane Daleks...

c) Doc. Tor. Who. I like it! I wonder where it is going and if they will rebuild the whole Doctor/Dalek dynamic but I like it anyway. Wait, that's not a complaint... uhm... it could go terribly wrong? We'll see.

In the end, I'll give the episode... a 11 out of 10. Okay, kidding, 8.5? B+, maybe that works better.


Oh, btw, Gillan, Moffat, Smith, Darvill go bowling.

[Androgeus]

So apparently there was a non-pond life prequel to AotD

[NikitaDarkstar]

Originally Posted by Avaris

[spoiler]...

Regarding the episode, I think it's the best opener to a season yet (which isn't necessarily a high bar to beat, but still...). I hadn't figured out the plot twist until the reveal, though I appear to be the only one who ddn't!

Spoiler

Little annoyed with the Skaro ret-con: would like to see it explained how it still exists. However I'm going to argue in favour of the having the daleks forget the Doctor.

Granted, part of the appeal of the Daleks is their shared history, but in recent years their fear of the doctor has become a major theme in all their appearances. This diminishes them... their plans are always going to be restrained and designed to avoid him... without that fear, they become much more dangerous. It also gives more peril for the main characters: as the daleks point out, they've never taken the chance to kill the doctor, possibly because of what he is to them. Now they can.

In general, this is another part of the change in tack that Who is taking, to free itself from past history. The Doctor is famous, and it is expected that people will have heard of him and react accordingly. IMO recent years have seen the Doctor become too known, where he can defeat foes simply by saying 'look me up'. That doesn't seem healthy for the series long term, better for him to be forgotten.

Spoiler

I expected her to have an eye-stalk pop out of her forehead, not be a full on dalek, but yhea it was obvious something was up.

And I fully agree with you on the rest. It was cool when 10th pulled the "You're in the biggest library in the universe, look me up." thing, but it's become to common. Everyone knows the Doctor nowadays, and it's getting frustrating. It's okay with some of his classic enemies, but really, all of time and space knows who he is now. Also daleks without their healthy respect for the Doctor who just goes out to exterminate whatever gets in their way? Yhea, that might turn out awesome, especially since they're clearly at full power now and there's just one (possibly two) time lords left in existence... so I can totally see this as a setup for 11th death (and 12th's introduction) in the future. The daleks don't remember the doctor, so aren't cautious around him, which ends up forcing him to sacrifice himself to stop them.

Overall I hope this season keeps this up, because if it does it'll be awesome.

[Fjolnir]

What sort of causation can this imply in the wibbly wobbly ball of time though? is it not possible that the time war might end up getting passed over due to the removal of the knowledge that they possessed about their greatest enemy? Also what happens when the not dalek girl changes her decision to join the crew of the alaska and flies with the doctor?

[Fjolnir]

Originally Posted by Friv

Spoiler

It's less selfish, and more making a wildly unilateral decision, without any conversation, for a situation that's fairly easily solved. (I mean, yes, adoption isn't necessarily "simple", but it's easier than divorcing your soulmate.) It's insanely narcissistic, and a lot of people confused self-involvement with self-interest.

But then, insane self-involvement has always been Amy's main character flaw, so it was also kind of believable.

My friends and I are attempting to start a meme indicating that Amy and Rory's relationship is so intense, they divorce the way other couples have arguments.

AMY: "How's the casserole?"
RORY: "Not bad."
AMY: "It needs more salt. You deserve a wife who can prepare better food! That's it, I want a divorce!"

RORY: "Amy, could you get some milk at the store?"
AMY: "We ran out of milk?!? That's it, you deserve a wife who can keep things onhand! Divorce!!!"

RORY: "Well, here we are, working with the Doctor again."
AMY: "It's all my fault! If you weren't married to me, you wouldn't end up fighting Daleks all the time!!"
RORY: "It's really fine..."
AMY: "DIVORCE!!!!!"

that last one though,if the names were reversed would work

[Dienekes]

So finally got around to watching the episode, and I wasn't as impressed with it as everyone else seems to be.

Spoiler

First off, I don't get this whole thing that: we're humanizing the Daleks so now they're scarier. No. Humanizing them has never made them scarier. The Daleks are scary because they are so inhuman. Now I won't say that humanizing a villain can't make them scary, but it doesn't work with the Daleks. They were designed to be completely inhuman, from the look to their personality. Also, I didn't get this was the creepy insane Daleks they were built up to be. In fact more than anything they seemed like the pathetic dregs of the race. Half of them couldn't shoot, others couldn't move, and one of them was just spinning around in circles. Now the using human puppets thing was pretty cool, but that's about it.

Then we get to the plan. The Daleks can't blow the planet out of the sky because their missiles are stopped by the shields surrounding the planet. Fair enough. But they can drop things on planet. So why don't they just drop some bombs and surpass the shields completely? I guess I'm not too put off by this one since then we wouldn't have an episode but it's what I thought when I saw it.

Then the Daleks turning Oswald into a Dalek. Now, I called that she was a human-bot that was mentally strong enough to resist Dalek imprinting, or just a crazy Dalek who thought they were human. But I didn't think she was a converted human, because Daleks need genius. No they don't. Daleks think every other race needs to be exterminated, and that they alone are geniuses, with the Doctor being the possible exception as a grudging understanding that he is that damn smart. Now the Cybermen, they need geniuses and they convert humans, that's their thing. The Cybermen also have a hive mind controlled by their programs and whoever is the Cyberking or whatever it was called. Daleks are living mutants in a mini-tank, how can they be hacked into? Maybe that's a thing from Old Who that I don't know about.

And finally the Ponds, they are one of the three fictional romances I don't actively root against, so seeing their relationship get played with for no reason bored me. The logic behind it was dumb, the pay off was dumb, and watching them make out instead of trying to save themselves wasn't touching, it was just dumb.

Now, I actually liked the episode, quite a bit. But I keep seeing the 9/10s thrown around and I honestly can't agree with those scores. It was an average Who episode, fun, but nothing special.

[Androgeus]

Doesn't Revelation of the Daleks have Davros converting humans in to Daleks?

[Xondoure]

Spoiler

Yeah these were the utterly crazy Daleks and that's the only excuse for the coversion. It could be said that since she was subjected to the nanos she had already become a Dalek, and that they were simply upgrading her body but even that doesn't really work out.

As for dropping a bomb, my head canon is that a few living organisms have a small enough energy output to survive the shield, and a bomb strong enough to blow the planet up would be detected.

Still, good episode all in all. Just, perhaps it should have been a Cyberman story.

[Tergon]

Spoiler

I thought the episode was pretty damn cool in a lot of ways. The nanomachines that converted any invaders was a clever idea; it was very Cyberman-ish, though, I agree. At the very least, having an eyestalk and blaster come out of their bodies was a bit odd, when there would have been ways to handle it that looked less... well, ridiculous, frankly.
The insane Daleks were a nice touch, though. The survivors of wars, disasters, and the Doctor, left to roam the planet while shrieking whatever pitiful thoughts enter their minds. Having them be battle-scarred and damaged and barely functioning made them creepy as hell while still making them a survivable threat, and I loved the Doctor's utter disgust at the start of the episode: "Just when I thought you'd run out of ways to make me sick..."

Amy and Rory, Amy and Rory, Amy and Rory... I have no idea why this happened. None at all. Their split-up happens in the off-season where we only get hints from Pond Life, and then by the end of the first episode they're back together again. And come on, the reason they split up is because Amy can't get pregnant? Very clearly Rory doesn't care about that, and there's adoption - not to mention, oh, a time-travelling super-scientist with access to any form of medical treatment that can exist or will exist. You cannot pretend that he couldn't get Amy's baby-factory up and running again if she asked for his help.
If it's going to be a plot point through the series and tie into something bigger, it can work. Otherwise this is needless meddling with a perfectly good relationship because of a plot point that makes zero sense. if a rabbit isn't pulled out of the hat on this one, I'll be disappointed.

Good old Souffle Girl, well, I was one of the many who saw a twist coming there. My guess was on the ship's AI, because she clearly wasn't human. And I think most Doctor Who fans have been around long enough to realise that, "Where'd you get the milk?" Is actually a very important question, because it says that she's clearly not really doing her cooking at all, which raises the question of how much of her is real... I think it would have been a better twist, though, to have her as a real Dalek who believed she was human, not a human who got turned into a Dalek. That'd be the ultimate Dalek insanity, believing it was human.

Now, by the end of the episode, we've got the Ponds working on a damaged relationship, a Dalek Empire at the height of its power that no longer fears the Doctor, and a Doctor who may or may not be infected with Dalek Nanobots. Lots of ways this could go, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.

All in all, I'd give it a 7/10, with room to boost that score later depending how many of those plot hooks are picked up and how many plot holes are filled by the upcoming season. I won't underestimate the writers; they're quite capable of taking those qualms of mine and spinning them into the larger plot, which could make the episode seem even better in hindsight. Still, whatever works, it was a fun idea and a great season opener.

EDIT: Oh yeah, one more idea.

Spoiler

The Daleks clearly had Amy and Rory's life on record, to the point where they could snag them from Earth during their everyday lives and kidnap them because "The Doc-tor requires com-pan-ions." And they not only snagged 'em, they took them to a point in the future where humans are exploring off-world and crashed into the Asylum Planet.
Now, the Daleks have completely forgotten the existence of the Doctor, and that's a cool twist. BUT! They clearly also have files on the Doctor's companions, and they've got access to very accurate time travel to burst in on their lives. Those files say that each and every companion was there when the Daleks were defeated in the past, and the Daleks are quite capable of travelling through time to find those enemies. Without a Doctor to intimidate them into not going after past and present companions... well, if they could snatch Amy and Rory that easily, and now they have a very good reason to be curious about them, and they won't be scared off because they're protected by the Doctor...
I guess it all comes down to how complete the mindwipe was. If the Daleks remember the Time Lords at all, they'd recognize the TARDIS as it disappeared. If they remember companions at all, lots of people are in terrible danger. And if they completely forgot those things as well, then there's going to be big chunks missing in the Daleks' collective memories, given that the Doctor has been involved in their entire existence. If everything related to him is wiped from their minds, then there's a race of very powerful pepperpots who are about to discover just how terrifyingly powerful they really are.

[Lord Tyger]

Spoiler

I don't really have a problem with Skaro being back. Remember that, during the Last Great Time War, reality was being rewritten on a grand scale over and over again. It's far from unlikely that Skaro was recreated during that time- in fact, there was already some indication that this might be the case, with the Skaro Degradations being among the horrors that the Doctor listed as likely to return when the Master broke the Time Lock and brought back Gallifrey. I would have thought it likely that Skaro would be Time Locked, but I suppose that it might just have been scoured of Daleks, and later repopulated after Victory of the Daleks.

[dps]

Originally Posted by Sunken Valley

Technically, the "Vampires of Venice" aren't vampires. Nor is the episode historical. It is in actual fact, the weak link of the season (although some consider either Chibnall's 2 parter or Beast Below (the one Moffat, you've never seen) worse).

I think I'd consider "The Beast Below" the weakest episode of that season. Though to me, it's a relatively "flat" season--all of the episodes were fairly mediocre (though mediocre Who is still one of the best things on TV) with nothing standing out as particularly good or bad. I realizes that's probably a distinctly minority opinion, since a lot of people really, really like "The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone" and the season finale, and while opinion is more divided, there are a lot of fans of "Vincent and the Doctor" and "The Lodger" as well. To me, though, it's much more consistant than the following season, when the episodes varied wildly in quality.

Although I'm not disillusioned, I just think Moffat's let it get to his head and he should move on and work for something else (although, who would be the showrunner?). Moffat's all like "I've made Dr Who an event" and "The Davis era is a relic" or "My take is unique". You know what Moffat? Without Davis, your run would not have existed. Your run only works when contrasted with lighter and softer Davis. That's why your episodes were best, as a contrast. If you'd wanted to be first Showrunner, you could have done it. You did it with Rowan Atkinson. But you didn't. And your show would not have worked if it came before Davis. Cartmel master plan didn't work (by the way, Moffat's not trying to reproduce that, the plan has been leaked in a novel). This would not have worked unless Davis came beforehand.

I've been pretty hard on Moffat myself, but I really liked "Asylum of the Daleks", so I take it all back. For now. But I reserve the right to say it again if the rest of the season doesn't live up to its promise.

[Reverent-One]

Originally Posted by dps

I think I'd consider "The Beast Below" the weakest episode of that season. Though to me, it's a relatively "flat" season--all of the episodes were fairly mediocre (though mediocre Who is still one of the best things on TV) with nothing standing out as particularly good or bad. I realizes that's probably a distinctly minority opinion, since a lot of people really, really like "The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone" and the season finale, and while opinion is more divided, there are a lot of fans of "Vincent and the Doctor" and "The Lodger" as well. To me, though, it's much more consistant than the following season, when the episodes varied wildly in quality.

Nope, that's what I think of season 5 as well.

[Xondoure]

Vincent and the Doctor is awesome. But I've found season five holds up poorly to repeat viewings, though it is fabulous upon initial view.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Hi! First time poster, longtime Whovian calling in.

@Tergon: Yes. You are correct on every point. Furthermore

Spoiler

Why didn't he take Dalek-Souffle with him!? How awesome would it have been for the Doctor to have a Dalek companion! Oh the hijinks we've been robbed of!

"Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically...um...RUN!"
"Doc-tor, would you care for a sou-ffle? Souffle? SOUFFLEEEEEEE!?"

Oh. I have a new ship...

[dps]

A few thoughts on "Asylum of the Daleks":

Spoiler

I don't know exactly how Skaro exists, but Eight did a much better job of killing off his own people than the Daleks, didn't he? Kind of makes Ten's boast in "Dalek" about watching the whole Dalek race burn a bit hollow.

The name Oswin Oswald makes me think of Oswald Mosley, the British Fascist leader. I kind of doubt that was what Moffat was going for.

Androgeus is right that Davros was converting humans into Daleks in "Revelation of the Daleks". Dead humans at that, too. At least the dead humans that he and his crooked business partners weren't converting to food in a Soylent Green plot. Yeah, that was a weird episode.

And I don't think this means that Jenna-Louise Coleman's character will end up being a Dalek companion. On another forum, I posted ten possible ways that I see off the top of my head that this could go, and for the most part, they don't involve her being a Dalek companion. Though I hope they don't go the route of her travelling with the Doctor before the crash of the Alaska--that gets too close IMO to what they did with River Song.

For that matter, why couldn't the Doctor have taken her with him anyhow. Even physically converted, mentally she pretty clearly was still human-ish. Maybe he didn't think she'd want to keep living like that, and maybe she wouldn't, but I think it would be better than how Ursala ended up in "Love and Monsters". Hmm. Maybe it's best that we just forget that "Love and Monsters" ever existed. To bad the BBC can't burn the tapes of that one and "Fear Her" and in exchange get back "Power of the Daleks" and, say, "Marco Polo".

EDIT: Ninjaed by Ninjadeadbeard on the taking Oswin with him anyway point.

BTW, the director for this episode was Nick Hurran, who also directed "The Girl Who Waited" and "The God Complex". He's also the director for this season's fifth episode. I'm kind of fearing that one, because it's the Pond's departure episode, and God only knows what Moffat will do to them, but if things hold true to form, at least with Hurran directing, the performances will be good.

Oh, and if you've seen the N.A. only prequel, who or what was The Messanger? A Headless Monk? The Dreamlord? We'll probably never find out.

[Xondoure]

Spoiler

Well while Oswin; Dalek Companion still might happen, it's important to remember that the Dalek mindset was breaking through and could well have taken over at any time. Also quite possible she needed to stay to maintain the loss of forcefield.

And as for the time war: an important thing to remember is while the Dalek's seem to be in full force the universe doesn't seem like it'll end anytime soon because of it. My guess is they've lost a lot of the technology that make them universe destroyers over their quite frequent bouts of being next to completely annihilated.

[Kato]

Okay people, could we stop trying to get any kind of temporal logic to make sense in Doctor Who? This is doomed right from the beginning...

Anyway, I was just curious about the Amy point once again.

Spoiler

Okay, maybe I missed a line but did Amy explicitly say she was sterile because apparently this is what everyone got apparently from the episode.
Wasn't the quote "I can't have kids after what they did to me at Demon's Run"? Of course it could mean just that, that she's unable to get pregnant because (???) but maybe she's talking from an emotional angle, like: I lost my baby once and I can't lose another one, ever. I'm not sure what was meant but... either I missed something or everyone else is not thinking about it from what I gathered.

[Kobold-Bard]

It would be safe to assume that she meant she was incapable of having kids, rather than her just being too traumatised.

That said, they know the Doctor. If he can't go an find young Melody before she regenerated in the alley into the Pond's friend, and clone her, then he's really not trying anymore. The baby wouldn't regenerate into either Mel or River since they're unlikely to let her die, and so would be their own kid that they could raise as normal. Problem solved.

Or alternatively, you know, adoption. Rather than a completely irrational divorce. Just an idea.

[dps]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

It would be safe to assume that she meant she was incapable of having kids, rather than her just being too traumatised.

That said, they know the Doctor. If he can't go an find young Melody before she regenerated in the alley into the Pond's friend, and clone her, then he's really not trying anymore. The baby wouldn't regenerate into either Mel or River since they're unlikely to let her die, and so would be their own kid that they could raise as normal. Problem solved.

Or alternatively, you know, adoption. Rather than a completely irrational divorce. Just an idea.

That first paragraph probably should have been spoilered. So

Spoiler

I don't think it's safe to make that assumption. It's reasonable, but it's not necessarily right. In fact, on a certain level I'd rather that it be that she's too emotionally traumatized--at least that would be showing some emotional reaction to the loss of their baby, which was something sorely lacking from the story arc last season. But either way, it's something that she should have discussed with Rory first, instead of just kicking him out of the house with no explanation and demanding a divorce.

[Thufir]

Originally Posted by dps

That first paragraph probably should have been spoilered.

It's been three days, we can stop spoilering things at this point.

[Kobold-Bard]

Originally Posted by dps

That first paragraph probably should have been spoilered. ...

Personally, I think the thread should have [spoilers] in the title so they're unnecessary altogether (even without it, if you know there'll be spoilers its only sensible to avoid the thread until you see the episode). I consider Monday an acceptable cut off so that America & the world has had a chance to see it on tv.

[Tergon]

Check Wikipedia, good sirs. The episode doesn't come out in Australia until the 8th of September - the only reason I've seen it is because, frankly, my friends and I are massive Doctor Who fans and didn't want to wait (don't worry, I make a point of buying the box sets of shows I download to ensure my karma stays positive).

Adding spoiler tags is a mild irritation, but since I most likely won't be downloading every episode before it airs, I'd greatly appreciate it if I didn't have to avoid this thread for a week every time a new episode airs. Fair's fair, no?

[Calemyr]

Oswin:

Spoiler

Oswin says point blank that the Alaska was her first adventure. If Clara is Oswin at an earlier date, and she becomes the new companion, that means that her timeline has already been drastically altered by that fact. We're talking Time War level causality warping, here. Taking Oswin out on tour means she won't be on the Alaska, she won't be converted, she won't spend a solid year screwing with the asylum, and she won't scare the hell out of the Daleks. Then they won't call the Doctor, Oswin won't rewrite the Daleks, the Daleks won't forget him, and the Doctor won't have a reason to recruit Clara. So she does go on the Alaska and the episode happens as normally. Paradox.

Of course, it could be intentional. But what would be bad enough that the Doctor would intentionally undo the mindwipe and resurrection of the Pond marriage?

[Xondoure]

Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

Personally, I think the thread should have [spoilers] in the title so they're unnecessary altogether (even without it, if you know there'll be spoilers its only sensible to avoid the thread until you see the episode). I consider Monday an acceptable cut off so that America & the world has had a chance to see it on tv.

Oh please no. With all the wierd scheduling things that happen with Who I'd have to stop visiting this thread altogether. Even with the spoiler tags lack of labels have occasionally tripped me up. Please please respect the spoilers. Or River will kill you in her sleep (that's right, hers, not yours.)