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Old 05-28-2012, 12:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Revived?)


Cipher's:

“My mother says I must not pass,
Too near that glass;
She is afraid that I will see,
A little witch that looks like me;
With a red mouth to whisper low,
The very thing I should not know”



Abilities: A Witch should focus first on Charisma. All Witches have an air of personality, and give off a certain presence. Next, Witches should focus on Intelligence, to perfect their craft. And then, Constitution. As Constitution determines their hit points, helps them resist torment and pain.

Organization: Witches often form Covens with others when they meet. These Covens vary wildly from one to the next. Some can be together for vengeful purposes, some just to survive as they band together... others are there for evil, seeking to do what ever typical villaneous acts they please. Still yet there are some covens that do the opposite. Ignoring the scorn of civilization and doing what they can to protect it, usually from evil covens for selfless reasons, or to keep the evil ones from tarnishing further the name of the Witch.

Alignment: Witches come from all walks of life. Their alignment usually grows based on how they grew up. As such, most Witches are of chaotic or evil alignment. But Witches are not inherently evil, and there are many that strive to be good despite what the world may think of them.

Religion: Witches are just like any other, and believe what they wish to believe. Witches are sometimes granted their power by beings, and may or may not worship them. But typically with or without worship the patronage persists, like a Favored Soul who is simply favored, not studious.

Background: Witches develop their Mark and get their familiar at an early age. The Mark makes life hell for a child, attracting negative attention. Many Witches don't live to see adulthood, sometimes not even teenage years unless they have the help of a Coven that spots them first and takes them in. As such, most Witches have dark pasts and its common for a Witch to hate the place of her birth.

Races: Witchcraft is something easily found in all supernatural races. The most common races are Humans, any race adapt with supernatural tendencies, and many demonic races. It is somewhat rare to see a particularly divine race to produce a Witch. When they do, depending on what kind of divine race or culture she was born into she may have been killed at the first sign of Witch-ness, or she may have been brought up in a welcome light if her Patron was Divine (as it usually is for those kind of races).

Other Classes: Witches do NOT get a long well with Paladins. Meanwhile Blackguard and similar classes often welcome a Witch. This is just bias however. Divine Witches can get a long with Clerics if they let them get close enough. Overall, it just depends on circumstance and who the Witches Patron is.

Role: Witches can make great strikers and control positions. But Witches are very diverse and versatile and could fill most roles.

Hit Die: d6
Starting Age: Young, typically.
Starting Gold: 4d4x10
Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + Int
Skill Points at First Level: 6 + Int x4
Class Skills:
Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal,
Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge, Listen, Profession, Spot, Witchcraft, Use Magic Device


LevelBABFortRefWillSpecial
1st+0+0+0+2 Familiar, Witch Blood, Witchcraft, Patron Hex
2nd+1+0+0+3 Hex
3rd+1+1+1+3 Witchcraft +1
4th+2+1+1+4 Hex
5th+2+1+1+4 Patron Hex
6th+3+2+2+5 Hex
7th+3+2+2+5 Witchcraft +2
8th+4+2+2+6 Hex
9th+4+3+3+6 Patron Hex
10th+5+3+3+7 Hex
11th+5+3+3+7 Witchcraft +3
12th+6/+1+4+4+8 Hex
13th+6/+1+4+4+8 Patron Hex
14th+7/+2+4+4+9 Hex
15th+7/+2+5+5+9 Witchcraft +4
16th+8/+3+5+5+10 Hex
17th+8/+3+5+5+10 Patron Hex
18th+9/+4+6+6+11 Hex
19th+9/+4+6+6+11 Witchcraft +5
20th+10/+5+6+6+12 Hex, Timeless Body




A Witch is proficient with Light armor, and simple weapons


A Witch is forever marked by fate. Literally and figuratively. All witches have a small mark naming them as a Witch, around that mark are different rings and patterns that are as unique as a fingerprint to individual witches.
The Mark will betray her as a Witch to any who sees it. If they do not know the Mark to be that of a Witch, the mysterious power surrounding the mark makes itself known into their mind that this is not natural, that something is weird about it. A Witch can never remove the mark, even through shapechanging magic. But some effects may mask it for a time.
The Mark denies the owner the ability to leave the Witch class until the Witch can overcome its pull. The Mark gives anyone who knows the mark, and actively seeks them, a +2 to all checks made to find the witch, and if the Witches Mark is seen there is a 50% chance that those that witness it will have their disposition drop by one, and in three days time there is a 25% chance that it will drop again. When Witches are near each other, their marks give the other witch a +1 to Witchcraft checks and Hex DC's, per two Witch levels. Maximum benefit is equal to your level for any one witch.
The Witch is free of the Mark at level three, and can then leave the class if she wishes.


A Witch gains a familiar. This creature is drawn into being as the Witch receives the Mark in order to be her guardian, companion, partner, and an aid in her Witchcraft. Whenever the familiar is adjacent the Witch gets a +2 to her Witchcraft checks, and the benefits listed in the table for the individual familiar.

Familiar Basics
Spoiler

familiar benefit
Bat Master gains Blindsense 30ft
Cat Master is immune to Falling damage
Rat Master never provokes a listen check
Owl Master gains Darkvision 60ft, or +30ft
Dog Master gains the Mettle ability.
Fox Master gains the Change Shape ability
Wolf Master gains +1 to attack rolls.
dire rat Witch gains +5 move silently.
eagle Witch gains +10 intimidate, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive.
hawk Witch gains +10 Spot, listen, and search.
horse Witch gains +15ft land speed.
snake *
Frog Master gains Waterbreathing and a swim speed.
Spider Master gains immunity to Poison&Disease
Lizard Master gains fire resistance 5+level
Wizard Master can craft scrolls&potions at no XP loss
Details
Spoiler



Level Nat. Armor + DR ability score increase Special
1 1 8 Share Spells, Communicate, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Mettle
2 2 8 Grant Knowledge
4 3 9 Deliver Touch Spells
6 4 10 Detect Arcane, Spell Resistance
8 5 11 Common Tongue
10 6 11 Permission Granted
12 7 12
14 8 13 Twin Souls
16 9 14 Sacrifice
18 10 14
20 10 15 Greater Spell Resistance
Details
Spoiler



A witch's magic is flowing and free. A witch has a specific patron grants her power, the witch is especially tuned to spells related to that patron. (See Patron Hexes).
The witch's primary casting stat is charisma with save DCs being 10+cha+1/2 ranks in Witchcraft. Witch spells are in general harder to resist then normal but they generally cast less spells in a day.
Capability:
To be able to cast a spell the witch must have ranks in witchcraft equal to the level +3 a normal member of the class would have to be in order to cast that spell, if she is attempting to cast a different spell not related to her patron then she must have ranks in witchcraft equal to the level +5 a normal member of that class would be in order to cast it.
Casting:
When casting a spell related to her patron, the witch must make a witchcraft check with the DC equal to twice the spell level +10. If the spell is not related to her patron the DC is twice the spell level +15.
Taking 10:
A witch can take 10 when casting a spell of a spell level lower then she could normally cast or if it is memorized. When casting a spell not related to her patron, she cannot take 10.
Memorization:
A witch can memorize specific spells for easier use. The witch can only memorize spells related to her patron. Memorized spells are similar to prepared spells as a wizard can cast. They are set aside when the witch takes fifteen minutes after resting for four hours to commune with her familiar and seal the magic within her Mark. A memorized spell is different from a standard one in that it is easier to cast, being able to take 10, and the witch can apply metamagic feats she has to a memorized spell without increasing the DC.
A witch can only keep a number of memorized spells per spell level equal to half her class levels + charisma modifier minus twice the spell level. Casting a memorized spell costs half as much (round up) as a non-memorized spell.
Maximum Spells per Day:
A witch has a pool of points like spellpoints used to determine the endurance of her magic. The pool equals her class levels times her charisma modifier.
Casting a spell costs twice the spell level of the spell in question.
In addition she has a limited number of times she can cast specific levels, it is equal to her charisma modifier minus the spell level. A +10 modifier witch could cast only one ninth level spell a day.
Metamagic:
A witch can add the effects of metamagic feats she knows by adding twice the level adjustment of the effect to the witchcraft DC to cast the spell.
Counterspelling:
Witchcraft functions like spellcraft when counterspelling, but when counterspelling you are at a 5 point disadvantage as Witchcraft is broader and you take more effort to determine the effects of the enemy's spell and attempt to craft a countermeasure, unlike normal wizards and sorcerers who either know the spell and a counterspell or not.


Witches learn a number of magic tricks, called hexes, that grant them powers or weaken foes. A witch cannot select an individual hex more than once.

Unless otherwise noted, using a hex at-will and a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The save to resist a hex is equal to 10 + 1/2 the witch’s level + the witch’s Charisma modifier. Some hexes rely on intelligence over charisma.
All lingering Hexes mark the victim with the mark of the witch who performed the hex until it ends. Hexes that target an area have the mark burned or carved into an object somewhere in the area.
The marks are small enough and placed somewhere that it is easy to be missed unless someone is looking for it or someone else is looking, such as a cursed person having the mark somewhere they wouldn't normally see or is normally visible such as the small of the back, behind a shoulder, or on someone's rear end. This mark is not created at the will of the Witch, but is an involuntary effect of the hex itself. It provides no use other then someone looking to see who is the culprit of the Hex, be it a witch or not or if it is a witch- which one (if the mark is identified to a specific witch).

Hexes are described in a following post.



A Witches power stems from certain forces. A Witch gains a special Hex and benefits from the particular power source. Powers granted by the Patron Hex are all at-will unless otherwise noted.
See next post for the Patrons.


The Witch takes no penalties to aging, only benefits, and never dies of old age, retaining a youthful natural appearance. The familiar never dies of old age either, mind you.

Last edited by Cipherthe3vil : 10-13-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:11 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

Lv1-10 Hexes.

Spoiler


At level ten, the witch can take from these greater hexes.
Spoiler


At level 16, a witch can take from these grand hexes.
Spoiler


Ritual Hexes:
Grand hexes with even greater effect that require 12 hours of ritual to cast. A witch can have only one ritual hex and must be at least level 18.
Spoiler





Your magic comes from one of four overarching sources.
Spoiler

Last edited by Cipherthe3vil : 11-14-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
eftexar
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

Post in spoiler moved/deleted at cipher's request:
Spoiler


Original post here:
Hmm... I think I missed something. Do spells subtract their level from uses or did I not see something else? From what I was reading the witch could straight up cast as many spells as twice her ranks (so that would be nearly 40 9th level spells possible).
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Last edited by eftexar : 05-30-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:42 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch


Your magic comes from primal, individual forces.
Spoiler

Last edited by Cipherthe3vil : 10-12-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:14 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
Veklim
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

I think he means spell level's worth at 2*total spellcraft modifier, so if you had a 28 modifier then you could cast 56 spell level's worth (14 level 4 spells for instance, or 1 level 9, 15 level 3s and a level 2). That's how it makes most sense to me anyhow.

I think you may have overcooked the spellcraft requirements for spell level too, you can have 17 ranks at level 14, and you should NOT have level 9 spells at 14th! What would work is this:

To cast a spell, you must have at least (Spell level *2)+2 ranks in spellcraft. That means you get access to 0th with 2 ranks, 1st with 4 (level 1), 2nd with 6 (level 3), 3rd with 8 (level 5), etc... unless of course this isn't 3.5 (does pathfinder use different rules for skill rank maximums?). If so, perhaps state as such!
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

unless I am wrong, patron hex is insane. It seems that you get all the listed abilities... so an at will max power magic missile with some benefits +immunity to spells for the surprise rounds+AT WILL 120ft TELIPORT+at will 15ft disintegrate +at will RANGED 15ft disintegrate with 20d4 of additional destruction... what the hell? at FIRST LEVEL? and thats just arcane, not even going into the other two... with those, I see little need for other class features, as it can rofl stomp anything...

and the wizard familiar... what? why did you think that was a good idea? that things going to be a super gish at mid to high levels...

my current reaction is of comprehensions, so I ask you... WHAT IS THIS!?!?
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
eftexar
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

See:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
Patron Hex:
A Witches power stems from certain forces. A Witch gains a special Hex and benefits from the particular power source. Powers granted by the Patron Hex are all at-will unless otherwise noted.
I'm pretty sure you only get one patron hex each level it indicates so (see chart). It's not nearly as broken as "you have everything at first level." Especially since the wizard familiar is mostly useless anyways (it really is just there to take away your experience points).

I think it is still a solid tier 2 though, with all it's at will abilities, if not a low tier 1. Granted with less spells per day it wouldn't have the same utility as a sorcerer or wizard, but the "I can cast anything (even if only a few times a day)" brings it back up to the sorcerer's level, if not a little higher. I think it's spells per day limit bring a bit more down to earth, but you still have spells at higher levels (8th and 9th in particular) that are broken.

I still vote for a 6th level spell cap, but I suppose there are quite a few people who still play with the sorcerer and wizard in their games.

Cook People and a few of the other great hexes are a little powerful though, now that I have read through them a second time, and I think they should be grand hexes instead.
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Last edited by eftexar : 05-28-2012 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

man, missed that there was an actual progresion, my bad.

so instead it is just droping a 5d4 attack with a 25ft knock back, at will? that is the only really, really offensive one. I would suggest running it magic missile style, with additional arrows coming in once per 2-3 levels.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
I think you may have overcooked the spellcraft requirements for spell level too, you can have 17 ranks at level 14, and you should NOT have level 9 spells at 14th! What would work is this:

To cast a spell, you must have at least (Spell level *2)+2 ranks in spellcraft. That means you get access to 0th with 2 ranks, 1st with 4 (level 1), 2nd with 6 (level 3), 3rd with 8 (level 5), etc... unless of course this isn't 3.5 (does pathfinder use different rules for skill rank maximums?). If so, perhaps state as such!
*Except you may notice there is no "Witchcraft", nor even Spellcraft, in the Witches class skills. That was not an accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
See:
I'm pretty sure you only get one patron hex each level it indicates so (see chart). It's not nearly as broken as "you have everything at first level." Especially since the wizard familiar is mostly useless anyways (it really is just there to take away your experience points).

I think it is still a solid tier 2 though, with all it's at will abilities, if not a low tier 1. Granted with less spells per day it wouldn't have the same utility as a sorcerer or wizard, but the "I can cast anything (even if only a few times a day)" brings it back up to the sorcerer's level, if not a little higher. I think it's spells per day limit bring a bit more down to earth, but you still have spells at higher levels (8th and 9th in particular) that are broken.

I still vote for a 6th level spell cap, but I suppose there are quite a few people who still play with the sorcerer and wizard in their games.

Cook People and a few of the other great hexes are a little powerful though, now that I have read through them a second time, and I think they should be grand hexes instead.
Hah. Heavens no, I rarely limit the Spell Levels on my classes. Even my Solstream may appear limited at first, but it continues in epic levels to push past that. Even then, I countered my own limited spell levels with Invocations.
I just don't like limited spell levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
man, missed that there was an actual progresion, my bad.

so instead it is just droping a 5d4 attack with a 25ft knock back, at will? that is the only really, really offensive one. I would suggest running it magic missile style, with additional arrows coming in once per 2-3 levels.
4d4. But yes. I intended to do something like that.


This class was very rushed, as I was about an hour into crafting this thing when suddenly I was made aware that I had a lot to do today and was rushed out the door, so I whipped up the rest of the class in about a half-hour.

In fact, I remember I had three other Patrons I wanted to add. But I had to cut them before I posted.
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:36 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

Big update.
I fixed several things and in my second post added Specialization paths where your Patron is an element.

Took so long because blasted GitP has made some sort of error each time I tried to post until now. Which is SIX times. The connection service here sucks But what ever! I think this class is totally done now on my part. Just peaches left to polish it off or something. Point out conflicts and what not, or things unclear.
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
Big update.
I fixed several things and in my second post added Specialization paths where your Patron is an element.

Took so long because blasted GitP has made some sort of error each time I tried to post until now. Which is SIX times. The connection service here sucks But what ever! I think this class is totally done now on my part. Just peaches left to polish it off or something. Point out conflicts and what not, or things unclear.
Scratch that.

NOW its done. I meant the mechanics were done there, now the fluff is done as well.

Please PEACH.
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

The Witchcraft mechanism seems really strange since people are just going to treat it as a cross-class skill and burn up skill points. Instead why not make Spellcraft a class skill, use Spellcraft and then just require twice as many ranks as one requires now?
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
The Witchcraft mechanism seems really strange since people are just going to treat it as a cross-class skill and burn up skill points. Instead why not make Spellcraft a class skill, use Spellcraft and then just require twice as many ranks as one requires now?
*shrug* It seemed simpler to simply not include it as a class skill...

But yea. I guess I should change that...

----

Fix'd. Lol. Just made it level +3.

Last edited by Cipherthe3vil : 05-29-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:07 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
JoshuaZ
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Default Re: Cipher's Witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
*shrug* It seemed simpler to simply not include it as a class skill...

But yea. I guess I should change that...

----

Fix'd. Lol. Just made it level +3.
Yeah, that probably makes the most sense. That way they can actually recognize spells being cast by other people.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
Cipherthe3vil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
Yeah, that probably makes the most sense. That way they can actually recognize spells being cast by other people.
My thoughts exactly. When I was editing I realized that they wouldn't be able to recognize anything else.

Hmmm. Anyway. I want to make one now to see how it actually works in a game.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Yitzi
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

I would advise proofreading the whole thing, making it more of a rule-sort format (see actual rulebooks for examples), and just making it overall clearer; that'll make it more likely both to be used and to be PEACH'ed in a more substantive manner.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
I would advise proofreading the whole thing, making it more of a rule-sort format (see actual rulebooks for examples), and just making it overall clearer; that'll make it more likely both to be used and to be PEACH'ed in a more substantive manner.
Not totally sure what you mean by that.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:00 AM   Top  -  End  -  #18
drack
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Yo Cipher.

Anywho comments:

... First level mettle dip through dog familiar?

Wizard: firstly... really? but moving along making items with free xp is a tad broken, no?

Snake familiar one level dip freedom of movement at will also seems a bit much...

Forced Reincarnation: hmm... Is there any precedent for reviving a creature without their consent that you know of?

Witchcraft:

"A Witch can only cast a number of spells per day equal to twice her total Witchcraft skill, " So I buy quick +skill item and can cast more spells? More than a tad cheep...

"To cast a spell, the witch must have ranks in "Witchcraft" (Spellcraft, lol) equal to the level +3 the normal member of the class that casts those spells must be"
So, one level witchcraft, 16 levels other that I still use to invest spellcraft ranks, and I can cast level 9 of any of the base classes that I choose, plus I can cast from other lists for +5DC? ... um... at a loss for words...

Familiar is a tad strong to go with sorc/wiz casting, but with others it's fine.

Anywho hope this is useful
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Last edited by drack : 05-30-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:32 AM   Top  -  End  -  #19
Debihuman
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

I am confused: Does a 1st level witch gain a familiar with a +8 bonus to Int, Con, Dex, and Str abilities? Compared to regular familiars which just gain 6 Int (instead of 1 or 2), that's mighty overpowered. I think you really need to fix that to even come close to a playable class.

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Last edited by Debihuman : 05-30-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #20
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drack View Post
Yo Cipher.

Anywho comments:

... First level mettle dip through dog familiar?

Wizard: firstly... really? but moving along making items with free xp is a tad broken, no?

Snake familiar one level dip freedom of movement at will also seems a bit much...

Forced Reincarnation: hmm... Is there any precedent for reviving a creature without their consent that you know of?

Witchcraft:

"A Witch can only cast a number of spells per day equal to twice her total Witchcraft skill, " So I buy quick +skill item and can cast more spells? More than a tad cheep...

"To cast a spell, the witch must have ranks in "Witchcraft" (Spellcraft, lol) equal to the level +3 the normal member of the class that casts those spells must be"
So, one level witchcraft, 16 levels other that I still use to invest spellcraft ranks, and I can cast level 9 of any of the base classes that I choose, plus I can cast from other lists for +5DC? ... um... at a loss for words...

Familiar is a tad strong to go with sorc/wiz casting, but with others it's fine.

Anywho hope this is useful
You mean a ten level dip. You cannot leave the class until tenth. Things like that are standard issue in my classes. I'm tired of people saying "Lol, level dip *Swish pose*"

No. I HATE crafting using XP. Its the stupidest thing ever. Hell it'd make infinitely more sense for them to GAIN XP. Let alone SPEND XP just to sprinkle some herbs together and make a potion or sword or whatever...

The Hexes are standard issue hexes. I did not make them.

Yep. Skill+ Items increasing their Witchcraft add to spells per day. Like the Witch Doctor from Diablo III- Some items increase their power.

Witchcraft is not the same as Spellcraft. Other classes would not be able to progress in it. And again. TEN levels of Witch.

You mean the Familiar is actually useful



Quote:
Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
I am confused: Does a 1st level witch gain a familiar with a +8 bonus to Int, Con, Dex, and Str abilities? Compared to regular familiars which just gain 6 Int (instead of 1 or 2), that's mighty overpowered. I think you really need to fix that to even come close to a playable class.

Debby
Rude... If someone doesn't like useful familiars and having one makes a class unplayable, then they don't have to play it.
I see in no way that the familiars are overpowered. Just finally useful.

Last edited by Cipherthe3vil : 05-30-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #21
drack
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
You mean a ten level dip. You cannot leave the class until tenth. Things like that are standard issue in my classes. I'm tired of people saying "Lol, level dip *Swish pose*"

No. I HATE crafting using XP. Its the stupidest thing ever. Hell it'd make infinitely more sense for them to GAIN XP. Let alone SPEND XP just to sprinkle some herbs together and make a potion or sword or whatever...

The Hexes are standard issue hexes. I did not make them.

Yep. Skill+ Items increasing their Witchcraft add to spells per day. Like the Witch Doctor from Diablo III- Some items increase their power.

Witchcraft is not the same as Spellcraft. Other classes would not be able to progress in it. And again. TEN levels of Witch.

You mean the Familiar is actually useful
I did notice that, but the last level being in it still fits that, and it may be easy for a DM to miss... Plus just moving a few things up a few levels at the start and spreading out progressions makes level dips pointless anyway.

Uh... huh... I suppose you also believe people should have infinite spells and HP? Crafting xp lets you not get a bunch of dirt cheep items. essentially you are just upping spell load and HP as well as other things without it.

I'd suggest specifically stating that other classes can't get it then, but this still leaves say a level 20 witch open to spend half her funds on a +witchcraft item, and have way more spells.

Yes, mean that you're adding druid abilities to wizard spells which is unbalanced as the limitations on the druid spell selection is what leaves it open for things like animal companion without becoming too overpowered.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:32 AM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Analysis
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drack View Post
Yo Cipher.
Forced Reincarnation: hmm... Is there any precedent for reviving a creature without their consent that you know of?
Like the other (non-bloodline) hexes, this one is from the Pathfinder witch: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch so there is indeed precedent.

Cipher, you may benefit from writing up the ways in which rules in your games differ from "garden variety" D&D out of the book, including such things as not progressing cross-class skills, minimum ten levels in each class etc., perhaps spoiler it and put in your tag so you can refer to it? I think it will improve the feedback you get since people then won't comment based on incorrect but common assumptions.

Last edited by Analysis : 05-30-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:34 AM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

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Originally Posted by Analysis View Post
Like the other (non-bloodline) hexes, this one is from the Pathfinder witch: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch so there is indeed precedent.
Ah, thank ye.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:38 AM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

When I'm reviewing monster classes, I try to cover the points of originality, playability, balance, elegance (formatting/spelling/clarity/presentation) & flavor.

The Witch as you have it presented is pretty top notch in terms of flavor. It's also pretty rock bottom in terms of playability. What do I mean by playability? I'm referring to how well the class would lend itself to being used in a game. Would it be fun to use? Would it be fun for the others at the table? For the DM? Do any class features bog down play? Does it really make sense with the way D&D 3.x works?

The hexes are a big offender here. Let's see...
  • Blight - Pretty minimal utility, and the actual effect of 1 con damage a day is pretty poor. Monsters can use stuff like disease and long term hexes, because the players are going to feel that. In what situation will a player using an effect like this actually get some use out of it? Use it on an owlbear, your party's probably going to kill it in a few rounds. Use it on the escaping BBEG? He'll get it removed. Hell, you could make it 1 con damage a round and it'd be pretty underpowered in a player's hands.
  • Cackle - minimal utility. Combat in 3.x tends to be pretty short, brutal and violent. Few combats really stretch on long enough that it's worth using a (move) action to extend the effects you've piled on a foe.
  • Beast of Ill Omen - it's flat out worse than the Bane spell in many respects (primarily in that it affects one target, and it's often not the target you'd want), and Bane isnt' that fantastic a spell to begin with.
  • Child Scent - What gameplay application does this have, honestly?
  • Coven - Similarly, what gameplay application does this have?
  • Evil Eye - The effect is pretty minor. A demoralize action augmented by a feat would be more effective.
  • Misfortune - This ability stands far & above so many of the others in effectiveness. This is probably the bar you should be setting for hexes, at this point.
  • Nails - really not that effective.
  • Poison Steep - In all honesty, how many opportunities are you going to have to use this, during a game?
  • Prehensile Hair - Not one of the best, but certainly has possibilities.
  • Scar - why will and not fort? Sort of limited in use for a typical campaign.

I won't go over everything, but my point should be clear. I might suggest taking some of the weaker ones & making it something like...

Each time the Witch gains the Hex class feature, pick one of these:
(list good hexes)
Or two of the following:
(list the crummier ones).
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
The Tygre
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

... Dat font.

It's glorious.

Have you considered outer planar patrons, like fiends, or do those just fall under the arcane/divine patrons?
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
When I'm reviewing monster classes, I try to cover the points of originality, playability, balance, elegance (formatting/spelling/clarity/presentation) & flavor.

The Witch as you have it presented is pretty top notch in terms of flavor. It's also pretty rock bottom in terms of playability. What do I mean by playability? I'm referring to how well the class would lend itself to being used in a game. Would it be fun to use? Would it be fun for the others at the table? For the DM? Do any class features bog down play? Does it really make sense with the way D&D 3.x works?

The hexes are a big offender here. Let's see...
  • Blight - Pretty minimal utility, and the actual effect of 1 con damage a day is pretty poor. Monsters can use stuff like disease and long term hexes, because the players are going to feel that. In what situation will a player using an effect like this actually get some use out of it? Use it on an owlbear, your party's probably going to kill it in a few rounds. Use it on the escaping BBEG? He'll get it removed. Hell, you could make it 1 con damage a round and it'd be pretty underpowered in a player's hands.
  • Cackle - minimal utility. Combat in 3.x tends to be pretty short, brutal and violent. Few combats really stretch on long enough that it's worth using a (move) action to extend the effects you've piled on a foe.
  • Beast of Ill Omen - it's flat out worse than the Bane spell in many respects (primarily in that it affects one target, and it's often not the target you'd want), and Bane isnt' that fantastic a spell to begin with.
  • Child Scent - What gameplay application does this have, honestly?
  • Coven - Similarly, what gameplay application does this have?
  • Evil Eye - The effect is pretty minor. A demoralize action augmented by a feat would be more effective.
  • Misfortune - This ability stands far & above so many of the others in effectiveness. This is probably the bar you should be setting for hexes, at this point.
  • Nails - really not that effective.
  • Poison Steep - In all honesty, how many opportunities are you going to have to use this, during a game?
  • Prehensile Hair - Not one of the best, but certainly has possibilities.
  • Scar - why will and not fort? Sort of limited in use for a typical campaign.

I won't go over everything, but my point should be clear. I might suggest taking some of the weaker ones & making it something like...

Each time the Witch gains the Hex class feature, pick one of these:
(list good hexes)
Or two of the following:
(list the crummier ones).
So your main problem with it, so far, is the things that I copied from the existing Witch XD.

I guess I'll go back, delete them all, and replace them with Hexes of my own design that are based off the existing Hexes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tygre View Post
... Dat font.

It's glorious.

Have you considered outer planar patrons, like fiends, or do those just fall under the arcane/divine patrons?
Depends on the patron. Fiends would be Elder.

I did, however, consider something kinda like that.
Before I had to rush and post this class I had a fourth section: Pacts. "Your power comes from a bond with a powerful being". Which would be things like powerful outsiders and what not.
I had to delete it before posting since it was totally blank besides that short description above. (I say fourth because there was only three at the time, I later added Nature, and then the Specialized patrons).
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

I can definitely see, like drack, how item crafting without xp could be a problem (especially with the sort-of-full-spellcasting here). I did the same thing with my witch just before you, but had some limitations to mine that you might consider implementing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
Witchcraft
...
She may craft potions and oils as if she had the Brew Potion feat, though these items are considered non-magical in nature and do not cost experience.
...
Any potion or oil the witch creates becomes inert after 2d4 + witch level days, rolled at creation, and because of their nasty composition these items have no resale value.
You might even consider restricting the use of these magic items to only the witch and other witches (and of course umd users).

On a side note I'll have to compliment your font as well.

But drack, how is the druid not overpowered?:
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #28
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
Not totally sure what you mean by that.
Some examples:

-"And then, Constitution." This is not a sentence. While the intent is clear, the poor grammar distracts (at least for me, and I suspect for many of the mindset to evaluate things carefully) from the concept. There are far too many such half-sentences to list.
-While the fancy section headings look impressive, they may not be the wisest idea for something where you want people to carefully read the actual content.
-Renaming Spellcraft "Witchcraft" is confusing and accomplishes nothing. Either leave it as spellcraft, make it a separate skill (e.g. like psicraft), or refer to it as Spellcraft in the rules and merely note that most witches use the term "witchcraft" to describe the skill.
-The inclusion of non-rule comments (e.g. "poor sob" about the wizard familiar) make the whole thing read more like a ramble and less like a crisp set of rules which can be properly PEACHed and eventually played with. There's nothing wrong with fluff (very much the opposite, in fact), but for greater playability it should be kept separate from the crunch.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
drack
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

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Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
But drack, how is the druid not overpowered?:
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I was comparing it to the classic strong ones like cleric and wizard. It may have decent spells, but if you've played the three main spellcasting lists you'll see that it certainly is limited, and sorc/wizard is certainly the most powerful.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:34 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Cipherthe3vil
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Default Re: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; The Witch 3.x (Peaches?)

Since it's nearing Halloween, one of my favorite holidays. Perhaps my favorite, period. And since I'm back after having barely glazed over gitp while I was out doing other things. I want to reopen this Witch to see if I can polish it, make it more desirable to play or welcome into a game.


I wonder why I never replied. Maybe I never saw the new replies? Ah, I said I was going to redo all the Hexes, so I was probably waiting until I did that, which I never did.

Well I'm going to try to come back to Homebrewing. I'm also much more calm and level headed then the last time I popped up, I've been training my mind and emotions since. Though still sensitive I can simply wait until I stick a band-aid on any wounds and push forward :P

I've gone back and addressed some of the horror at the idea that I locked the Witch in with ten levels. It now feels to me like using a shotgun to kill a fly. I've lowered it to three levels to keep the idea behind it, but still make it require more work for those people who like to dip-classes while still being usable in a set of some sort in lower leveled games. Since many games It seems are played at level 3, 4, or 6 or for masochists, 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
I can definitely see, like drack, how item crafting without xp could be a problem (especially with the sort-of-full-spellcasting here). I did the same thing with my witch just before you, but had some limitations to mine that you might consider implementing:

You might even consider restricting the use of these magic items to only the witch and other witches (and of course umd users).

On a side note I'll have to compliment your font as well.
Yes, I can see how not having a limitation besides acquiring the resources and the often imbalanced cost (Since some creations just require a few weeds, yet can cost more then some farmers make in a year).

However it is not room to implement an XP cost. XP cost is still ridiculous. BUT. Witches have their marks, and power is shared between one mark to another.
My idea is that they are useless if the person does not have a Witch's Mark since that is how the potion or scroll uses it's magic. I can add Shelf life to potions but it might not be necessary.


I'll see what I can do to tweak the Hexes, but apparently totally redoing them all made me go blank last time. So I'll just go through and tweak.


Alright. I've edited much of the class. Had to use a third post since I extended many hexes, and included several new ones including adding Ritual Hexes, which are much more potent.
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