World of Tanks II: Fighting, Bragging, Raging Edition - All aboard the Lemming Train! - Page 5

Nightson · 06-06-2012, 06:09 PM

Sixth sense is the most amazing commander secondary skill ever.

Eldariel · 06-06-2012, 06:15 PM

I disagree, sir. Mentor actually increases the overall number of secondary skills you get on all crew members (including Commander since all Accelerate Crew Training XP goes to Commander then)

But yeah, Sixth Sense is really amazing on tanks where you need to know whether you're camoed or not.

Reaver225 · 06-06-2012, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldariel

I disagree, sir. Mentor actually increases the overall number of secondary skills you get on all crew members (including Commander since all Accelerate Crew Training XP goes to Commander then)

But yeah, Sixth Sense is really amazing on tanks where you need to know whether you're camoed or not.

Less great nowadays for arty; people are picking up counterbattery much much faster - Even me in my SU-26 has managed to take down Wespe and Hummels with counter battery. Just track the tracer to the origin and make the kill. Good to keep players on their toes.

I maxed out mentor on the SU-26 before training another skill up... Then dropping skills/perks and taking sixth sense so it started at 100% while spending no gold. Training a perk up from scratch is painful and it's better to retrain and lose some experience than to waste all those battles grinding when another skill could help out more on the way there. I did the same with my T-28 on my gunner.

Note: ZiS-4 + deadeye perk? Kill ALL THE MODULES.

psilontech · 06-06-2012, 10:41 PM

I would much rather do hitpoint damage than module damage just about any day of the week. Sure, sometimes you take out their gun or turret, but 90% of the time, they are still coming at you shooting with 100% health.

I had a match earlier Today in my T32 where I hit ("It looks like it went right through!") an IS-8 seven or eight times in various places with no bounces, each time doing no bounces and not causing him to kill my teammates any less. It was SUPREMELY irritating and would make me view the Deadeye perk as more of a determent than a boon.

A slightly similar story - I was derping around in my KV-2 when an M-18 Hellcat comes bounding around the corner looking for our arty when I blammed the hell out of him, obviously expecting it to go down in one shot given the 'Tier I tanks penetrate this armor with ease' armor coupled with not only the open top but the sheer damage that HE shell does to freaking tier tens. It blew off his track for no damage - He repaired and hounded me to death while I was reloading.

Now, if 'critical hits' did regular HP damage on top of damaging the module, that would be a different story...

Brother Oni · 06-07-2012, 01:58 AM

Question on crews - is it better to retrain exisiting crew members for the next tank upgrade in their line so their skills and perks carry over?

Presumably if you're just quickly grinding up the levels and your old crew has no skills/perks and only a minor amount of experience, it's better to ditch them and start with a fresh crew.

Grif · 06-07-2012, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Oni

Question on crews - is it better to retrain exisiting crew members for the next tank upgrade in their line so their skills and perks carry over?

Presumably if you're just quickly grinding up the levels and your old crew has no skills/perks and only a minor amount of experience, it's better to ditch them and start with a fresh crew.

Correct. The rough cut off point where it's better to retrain your existing crew would be around 83%.

SanguisAevum · 06-07-2012, 04:50 AM

I concur with the assertion that mentor is an amazing perk, so much so that it is on all of my commanders, regardless of tank. Lost count of the number of times it has saved me.

I also concur with the assertion that immediate scout rushing is the very worst (tactically speaking) way to play dedicated scouts. Sure, its fun, and it sometimes pays off in low tier games, but past tier 3 you should know your NOT being very useful to your team. A scouts value really comes into play mid and late game, when lines have opened somewhat, tanks are being more cautious, and the enemy REALLY needs lighting up for your arty.

To the fella who asked about TDs... Don't camp IN bushes... camp BEHIND them. The best use of a TD is with forward observers spotting targets for you. In this situation, keep the bush in-between you and your target, and ensure you CANNOT see through the bush as a transparent mass. (this means you are far enough back from it, that it will still count its camouflage value for you even if you fire. This is the reason you sometimes get hit by TDs you cant see... They have one or more bushes BETWEEN them and you, and are using spotters to light targets for them.

Using this tactic, a full camo crew, and a camo net, I can fire at an enemy 60-70 meters away and STILL remain undetected by them. In situations where you have no spotters, you will need to get close enough to the bush to see through it and thus have LOS in front of you. Just be aware that when you fire, the bush stops applying its camo value to you for a short while.

Always check your position by locking the traverse, and swinging the camera round in front of you. You should be a white outline behind the bush your using... if you can see some colour through it, your not hidden properly.

Leon · 06-07-2012, 05:20 AM

One of the most annoying things as Arty is have the scout rush off and then die with nothing happening and whining the rest of the battle that we didn't do anything. Low Tier This is due to being out a range and often being slow speed / High Tier this is due to long reload times and aiming.

The other is when the rest of the team lets a scout run amok in the back lines unopposed (i know its hard to stop a scout sometimes but when no-one tries then whines that arty is not doing its job its enough to want to shell your own tanks deliberately)

Brother Oni · 06-07-2012, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanguisAevum

[Additional TD advice]

Thanks for the help. I'll give that a try tonight.

I had a game where I was relocating after every couple shots, so did decently (avoiding a couple near misses from enemy arty fire), but I was still hiding in the bush rather than behind it.

As an aside, I had a very silly game with my M2 medium on Himmelsdorf: there's a small park that usually gets contested by lines of tanks shooting at each other. I rushed ahead and ended up on the enemy side end of the park where I played poke and shoot shenanigans with about 3-4 enemy tanks for a couple minutes before I realised 'holy crap, I'm holding up their entire advance'.
They then started to outflank me and I had to run away screaming like a little girl (literally - my daughter was shouting "run Daddy!" as I was doing it).

SanguisAevum · 06-07-2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Oni

Thanks for the help. I'll give that a try tonight.

I had a game where I was relocating after every couple shots, so did decently (avoiding a couple near misses from enemy arty fire), but I was still hiding in the bush rather than behind it.

As an aside, I had a very silly game with my M2 medium on Himmelsdorf: there's a small park that usually gets contested by lines of tanks shooting at each other. I rushed ahead and ended up on the enemy side end of the park where I played poke and shoot shenanigans with about 3-4 enemy tanks for a couple minutes before I realised 'holy crap, I'm holding up their entire advance'.
They then started to outflank me and I had to run away screaming like a little girl (literally - my daughter was shouting "run Daddy!" as I was doing it).

The "street of death" on Himmle' is a particular bug bear of mine in high Tier games.

Consistently, you will see whole swaths of tanks rush to the corner points on the road under the hill, and just sit there camping.

Grrr

In reality, all it takes is one or two of your team's bigger guns to effectively hold that route for most of the match. If the rest of the team goes either over the hill (fast tanks) or down the tracks, you can have them encircled before they realise that half there team is being held up by just two or three guns. (obviously the centre, and other side road need some coverage too)

Cant count the number of times I have indicated that I will put my IS7 on that corner and hold them off, and that I need just one or two other big guns to hold with me, freeing the REST of the team to rush the other flank and/or the hill... Only to find all the team's heavies sitting behind me in the stupid street of death, and instead WE are the ones being flanked because the OTHER team is rushing the other side without opposition, instead of us doing it.

Bah!

Reaver225 · 06-07-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psilontech

I would much rather do hitpoint damage than module damage just about any day of the week. Sure, sometimes you take out their gun or turret, but 90% of the time, they are still coming at you shooting with 100% health.

...Now, if 'critical hits' did regular HP damage on top of damaging the module, that would be a different story...

Depending on where you shoot them, it *does*.

For mediums and lights, you can use your fast firing AP to score multiple hits on their sides and backs, where their ammo racks and engines are... With some luck you can pop a rack open or roast their engines or fuel tanks in a single hit. And that will almost disable them for an easy finish or kill them outright. Deadeye greatly helps with that, and a fast firing penetrating gun is perfect for the job.

Jonzac · 06-07-2012, 08:44 AM

It is absolutely amazing the difference between a standard and premium account. The XP and silver difference of 50% is staggering...I don't lose money on my Tiger II. My T59 made me 70k one game, admittedly I had a great game but 70k!!!

I got my T-34-85 and its nice but the difference in MatchMaker (MM) between Tier 5 and 6 is brutal. I"ve unlocked the 85mm Tier 6 gun and tracks so far (Premium for the week is AWESOME). I'm just sitting grinding through T-34-85, Tiger II, T59 and the occational M4A3E2...been having a blast.

Jonzac · 06-07-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaver225

Less great nowadays for arty; people are picking up counterbattery much much faster - Even me in my SU-26 has managed to take down Wespe and Hummels with counter battery. Just track the tracer to the origin and make the kill. Good to keep players on their toes.

I maxed out mentor on the SU-26 before training another skill up... Then dropping skills/perks and taking sixth sense so it started at 100% while spending no gold. Training a perk up from scratch is painful and it's better to retrain and lose some experience than to waste all those battles grinding when another skill could help out more on the way there. I did the same with my T-28 on my gunner.

Note: ZiS-4 + deadeye perk? Kill ALL THE MODULES.

So, you've verified (and done it yourself)...drop a 100% skill and then pick up a completely new one...and it starts at 100%? I have a whole crew on my Tiger II (moved from my Tiger) that is at 99% right now and I'd like to redo my perks/secondaries...if I can pick up new ones with no penalty that would be a godsend.

SanguisAevum · 06-07-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzac

So, you've verified (and done it yourself)...drop a 100% skill and then pick up a completely new one...and it starts at 100%? I have a whole crew on my Tiger II (moved from my Tiger) that is at 99% right now and I'd like to redo my perks/secondaries...if I can pick up new ones with no penalty that would be a godsend.

You have to pay gold to retrain skills/perks without loosing exp on the crewmember. If you retrain skills without using Gold, you loose a proportion of the crew members total EXP (the exact numbers are detailed in the skill retraining interface itself). You may still have enough total exp to maintain some of your skills, but you will loose at least some progress in your latest skill.

I speak from personal experience.

(and yes, i am talking about secondary skills / perks... not the crewmans main qualification. Which, incedently... uses the exact same mechanic... gold = 100% of current experience)

Grif · 06-07-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanguisAevum

The "street of death" on Himmle' is a particular bug bear of mine in high Tier games.

Consistently, you will see whole swaths of tanks rush to the corner points on the road under the hill, and just sit there camping.

Grrr

In reality, all it takes is one or two of your team's bigger guns to effectively hold that route for most of the match. If the rest of the team goes either over the hill (fast tanks) or down the tracks, you can have them encircled before they realise that half there team is being held up by just two or three guns. (obviously the centre, and other side road need some coverage too)

Cant count the number of times I have indicated that I will put my IS7 on that corner and hold them off, and that I need just one or two other big guns to hold with me, freeing the REST of the team to rush the other flank and/or the hill... Only to find all the team's heavies sitting behind me in the stupid street of death, and instead WE are the ones being flanked because the OTHER team is rushing the other side without opposition, instead of us doing it.

Bah!

I was on the other end of this today. Me (M18) and a mate (M4A2E8) went up the hill and took out the lone VK who had the misfortune to be caught climbing the hill on the other side. Seeing all the enemy heavies stacked up at the road on 8, we decided to pay them a visit. We ended up killing all the heavies (An IS, two KV-3s and one derp KV) and sent the rest scurrying for cover. The rest of the match was a walkover from that point.

Reaver225 · 06-07-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzac

So, you've verified (and done it yourself)...drop a 100% skill and then pick up a completely new one...and it starts at 100%? I have a whole crew on my Tiger II (moved from my Tiger) that is at 99% right now and I'd like to redo my perks/secondaries...if I can pick up new ones with no penalty that would be a godsend.

As the person below you said, you do lose some experience, by a proportion of how much the person has. The more skills he's earned, the more he loses (unless you pay gold). If you pay silver you'll lose about 10% of the total XP earned, which if you've grinded a secondary skill a bit after you've got a skill to 100% you'll be able to choose a new skill/perk that starts at 100%, and your second skill/perk will take a hit.

It allows you to pick up perks when you've been a skill in place before.

EDIT:
Meanwhile, here's a choice. Should I buy an S-51, or a T-34, or an IS? I have no idea which I should go for!

groz_nez · 06-07-2012, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaver225

EDIT:
Meanwhile, here's a choice. Should I buy an S-51, or a T-34, or an IS? I have no idea which I should go for!

I have personal experiences from IS (~200 games) and S-51 (~80 games). I feel obligated to warn you that playing IS in matches where you are not the top tier can be very frustrating. This is because even with it's top gun you only get measly 175mm average penetration. Compared to Tiger or Tiger P which have 203mm average penetration in their top gun. Also T29 can have 198mm average penetration gun. This low penetration can be very frustrating especially against E-75 tanks, which seem to be extremely hard to penetrate even from the sides. That being said if you end up being top tier, it can be a world of fun especially with the 122mm top gun which deals sweet damage to lower tier enemies. Also learning weak spots of higher tier tanks is a must. Getting win percentage to 50% was quite hard but manageable.

S-51 with 203mm top gun is world of fun. You can one shot Tier VI-VII heavy tanks (if you get little lucky) and deal very devastating blows to even Tier X tanks. Only down side is the excruciatingly long reload time (even with 100% crew and rammer). In wiki it actually states that next arty (Object 212) is actually a downgrade from S-51. Because it's larger, slower and less agile. It also has same top gun.

What I've seen and heard T-34 is fun to play if you know how to play to it's advantages like speed and fast RoF. Though I've been told that PzIV is somewhat superior at same tier. This is mainly due the fact that it manages to deal more damage (at least in our games).

Has anyone else heard the good news:

List of changes between test #1 and test #2 of v7.4:

-Removed the Komarin and Swamp maps from the pool for random battles.

Hopefully this carries to final patch.

Here are a couple other highlights:

Spoiler

Full list of chages can be found here: http://worldoftanks.eu/news/2676-sec...st-version-74/

Renegade Paladin · 06-07-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

One of the most annoying things as Arty is have the scout rush off and then die with nothing happening and whining the rest of the battle that we didn't do anything. Low Tier This is due to being out a range and often being slow speed / High Tier this is due to long reload times and aiming.

The other is when the rest of the team lets a scout run amok in the back lines unopposed (i know its hard to stop a scout sometimes but when no-one tries then whines that arty is not doing its job its enough to want to shell your own tanks deliberately)

Which is why I spent a page pointing out that the M3 Stuart guide was all wrong back there. This is precisely the reason.

psilontech · 06-07-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groz_nez

Has anyone else heard the good news:

List of changes between test #1 and test #2 of v7.4:

-Removed the Komarin and Swamp maps from the pool for random battles.

Hopefully this carries to final patch.

Here are a couple other highlights:

Spoiler

Full list of chages can be found here: http://worldoftanks.eu/news/2676-sec...st-version-74/

Hey, I enjoy those maps being removed from the pool. I just want Campovkia removed. That's all I want.

And the new game modes appearing randomly... I dunno. I don't like surprises like that, if I want to play attack and defend, I should have the option to do it when I want.

Grif · 06-07-2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groz_nez

S-51 with 203mm top gun is world of fun. You can one shot Tier VI-VII heavy tanks (if you get little lucky) and deal very devastating blows to even Tier X tanks. Only down side is the excruciatingly long reload time (even with 100% crew and rammer). In wiki it actually states that next arty (Object 212) is actually a downgrade from S-51. Because it's larger, slower and less agile. It also has same top gun.

If you think Obj 212 is slow, then you have not played SU-14.

Also, if you are going for S-51/SU-14, my advice? Stock up those free experience to unlock the 203mm gun first. Playing with the 152mm is okay but not spectacular. (The SU-8 have a similar gun but is way more agile.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by groz_nez

What I've seen and heard T-34 is fun to play if you know how to play to it's advantages like speed and fast RoF. Though I've been told that PzIV is somewhat superior at same tier. This is mainly due the fact that it manages to deal more damage (at least in our games).

Mmm, yes. Though that implies that you have chosen the ZiS-4 as your main gun. T-34 is more agile than the equivalent Tier V mediums, but suffers from a somewhat lacklustre armour (though it is sloped, which can lead to some surprising bounce), and below average HP pool. (Expect to be one-shotted by KV derps.) However, if you are somehow able to sneak past a distracted enemy and start unloading rounds, you can wreck merry havoc. Your gun also practically destroys lower tiers.

Quote:

Hey, I enjoy those maps being removed from the pool. I just want Campovkia removed. That's all I want.

Yeah. That and Province. At least from the higher tier matches. Playing these two with randoms is an exercise in frustration.

Eldariel · 06-07-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grif

Mmm, yes. Though that implies that you have chosen the ZiS-4 as your main gun. T-34 is more agile than the equivalent Tier V mediums, but suffers from a somewhat lacklustre armour (though it is sloped, which can lead to some surprising bounce), and below average HP pool. (Expect to be one-shotted by KV derps.) However, if you are somehow able to sneak past a distracted enemy and start unloading rounds, you can wreck merry havoc. Your gun also practically destroys lower tiers.

My experience having played both PzIV and T-34 a bit now: I'd probably prefer T-34 when I'm top tier. If armor bouncing isn't an issue it'll do great damage regardless of deployment. Any other time though, I'd prefer PzIV simply because its penetration is so awesome for its tier while it doesn't lose that hard in terms of DPM either. Both are very accurate but ZiS-4 isn't really a sniper weapon due to lacking penetration and thus not dealing very consistent damage at range.

PzIV also has frontal armor and frontal turret armor both superior to KV-1; while its shape is worse than T-34's, it still does a decent heavy tank impression when top tier. T-34 is a great medium tank to be sure and if you can get a decent flank you can put the pain on anything but PzIV's penetration simply gives it more versatility and makes it better against higher tier vehicles.

Renegade Paladin · 06-07-2012, 09:07 PM

I hate it when I have a workable plan that requires cooperation, clearly outline it, no one listens, and I almost pull it off by myself anyway.

There were four tier 9 mediums including my Patton in a battle I just got out of; actually it isn't over as I type this. The map is Erlenburg, and we have the west start location. I proposed wolfpacking up, crossing the south bridge, and going up the west side of the ridge, since the heavies on the east side start inevitably go along the east side of the ridge and leave the field open since they're exposed on it.

I go and no one follows. Even so, I killed a Tiger who was in the buildings on the center-west of the ridge on the way, and rolled right up to their arty, damaging it before getting hit in the face by an M40/43 HE round. With even one more tank with me we'd have mopped up the lot of them, but no one listens.

Reaver225 · 06-08-2012, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groz_nez

What I've seen and heard T-34 is fun to play if you know how to play to it's advantages like speed and fast RoF. Though I've been told that PzIV is somewhat superior at same tier. This is mainly due the fact that it manages to deal more damage (at least in our games).

I bought the T-34!

And... hate it.

Blah. It's a T-28 with paper thin sloped armour and a couple more hit points up a tier.

No, it's a slow unmaneuverable T-50-2 with paper thin armour and better hitpoints, which just means I can dodge less effectively.

Perhaps I just need to pimp it out with loader and stabilizer and get my crew trained and so on. But a medium should have a bit more punch than an equivalent scout tank, I feel.

Well, the good thing is I've unlocked half the modules beforehand and when I get to the T-34-85 I can play it like an oversized scout with the i-D10T cannon. Having a cannon one tier higher than the rest of your tank is always fun.

Next up, then the S-51!

Leon · 06-08-2012, 02:29 AM

The T-34-85 is not something you want to play like a scout (unless you mean passive scout) - you want to play hull down with it where possible and get the best out of the big gun in good matches or second/3rd line it in lower ranked games

Grif · 06-08-2012, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaver225

I bought the T-34!

And... hate it.

Blah. It's a T-28 with paper thin sloped armour and a couple more hit points up a tier.

No, it's a slow unmaneuverable T-50-2 with paper thin armour and better hitpoints, which just means I can dodge less effectively.

Perhaps I just need to pimp it out with loader and stabilizer and get my crew trained and so on. But a medium should have a bit more punch than an equivalent scout tank, I feel.

Well, the good thing is I've unlocked half the modules beforehand and when I get to the T-34-85 I can play it like an oversized scout with the i-D10T cannon. Having a cannon one tier higher than the rest of your tank is always fun.

Next up, then the S-51!

If you're playing it like the T-50... uh... no. You're not supposed to do that. Play it like a proper medium like the T-28. Let the heavies soak up the damage/attention and go around to flank the enemy. Your armour and HP is just enough that you won't get one-shotted like the T-50 and would bounce low tier shots, but that's all you need. You're still agile enough that you can circle lone heavies and unload all your shells into his rear. (M4s and PzIVs can't do that.) Or if you're feeling adventurous, play dance-around-his-slow-turret-traverse.

As for T-34-85, yes, it is not a scout and you should never play it as such.

Reaver225 · 06-08-2012, 05:55 AM

Eh, it probably would be a good medium at close ranges if I can avoid frontal attacks... I just like brawling a lot at point blank ranges where I can get the enemy to miss - and yes, it does seem quite possible to dance round heavies.

I just played a fantastic match where I took out two KV1s and a tiger as well as a few lighter tanks on that map with the large forest on one side (the last KV-1 kill was a thing of beauty, circling it with my damaged fuel tank while it was driving back towards the captured point and trying to traverse to get me in view, only for me to circle right the way in front of it shelling it in the turret and landing the final shell right into its side), and was thinking, "Wow, I misjudged this little tank"

...And then I realised I was using my T-28, not my T-34, since that got two-shotted by a KV-1 earlier. Whoops.

(Mind you the next time I took my T-34 out I managed to make several nice shots and take out the enemy arty, so it's not a terrible tank. I probably just have to try driving it a bit more.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grif

Play it like a proper medium like the T-28.

But I drive my T-28 like I drive my T-50! And usually with better results!

Jonzac · 06-08-2012, 08:14 AM

I just unlocked the T-34-85, which means that I obviously have a few games as a T-34 driver. I put the 57mm gun on it for the accuracy...and more importantly for me...Rate of Fire (RoF). I found much more success (with 75% crew), waiting a few minutes and playing scout guard then pushing a flank and never stoping.

Frankly I can't wait for the higher Tier Russian mediums. I love the games in my T59 where I never stop moving and the Russian mediums lend themselves to that kind of playstyle.

On a side note, does anyone here play the clan wars portion of this game? Its a major portion of the game and I totally ignore it. I just assumed that if I didn't have a Tier 9/10 then you couldn't play.

groz_nez · 06-08-2012, 12:42 PM

Managed to capture the thread title pretty perfectly in one picture.

Spoiler

Finally got around buying T-50. Eldariel bought his, so I thought it would be easiest to platoon with him with another T-50. I have to tell this tank is so much fun. The perfect trolling tank. From first game I got ~1600xp, it was also first win of the day (obviously). I just drove around and after a while glued myself to backside of an IS-3. When IS-3 died (by arty and other teammates) I found ISU-152 hiding in a bush. Glued myself to his rear armor. Surprisingly managed to penetrate him quite a few times. In the end T34 came around and killed him. Most fun I've had in a while.

Grif · 06-08-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzac

I just unlocked the T-34-85, which means that I obviously have a few games as a T-34 driver. I put the 57mm gun on it for the accuracy...and more importantly for me...Rate of Fire (RoF). I found much more success (with 75% crew), waiting a few minutes and playing scout guard then pushing a flank and never stoping.

Frankly I can't wait for the higher Tier Russian mediums. I love the games in my T59 where I never stop moving and the Russian mediums lend themselves to that kind of playstyle.

On a side note, does anyone here play the clan wars portion of this game? Its a major portion of the game and I totally ignore it. I just assumed that if I didn't have a Tier 9/10 then you couldn't play.

SEA does not have Clan Wars yet.

I also got another Billote today for my M18. Twas' fun, zooming around El Halluf to nick all the enemies.

psilontech · 06-08-2012, 09:07 PM

I was briefly involved in the auxiliary portion of a clan populated by those below the max for their lines, so tier 8/9 Heavies, tier 7/8 mediums, and 6+ arty.

We were used for defensive actions when they couldn't scrape together enough of the primary guard to fill up the game and for attacks on territories when there were excess movement tokens made up entirely of ourselves. We even managed to take a territory or two and hold it for long enough to get gold out of it against technically superior forces through use of superior tactics and discipline but were never compensated for our actions. Not seeing the point of being in a clan and participating in clan wars under a leadership who would not reward our actions, a large number of the reserve force, including myself, decided to leave for greener pastures.

Haven't gotten involved in it again, but I probably will once I finally hit tier ten.