[Hourglass of Zihaja D&D 4e] Heroes on a Sea of Swords OOC II

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by ninja_penguin

Also, Shadow_Elf, it'd be great DM trolling sometime if we fight three things, and they're labeled Thing 2,3, and 5.

He did that in the last fight, once we figured which enemies where minions by their numbers - he started giving them random numbers all around.

Of course, by then Amirah had control of the deck, and most minions ended up washed overboard the turn they popped up, so it wasn't too obvious. But it was in my mind that some of the pirates could potentially survive.

Grey Wolf

[Scylfing]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

CA cube is J17-L19, one square above the ground, going up three squares.

I suspect the dragon will attempt to leave, so if there was a way to keep it there (hint hint Medinah), it would be nice. I can sick a puppy on him and prone him next turn, if I roll better than this turn, which might lock him in place. We certainly don't want him taking flight if we can help it.

Grey Wolf

Unfortunately Medinah is prone, which will eat up her move action so she wouldn't be able to get down there this turn to use Frigid Blade on Iron Dragon 3--although I think teleporting from prone does allow you to reappear standing up. Could someone check that for me while I'm AFB?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Scylfing

Unfortunately Medinah is prone, which will eat up her move action so she wouldn't be able to get down there this turn to use Frigid Blade on Iron Dragon 3--although I think teleporting from prone does allow you to reappear standing up. Could someone check that for me while I'm AFB?

Not as far as I can tell. If you teleport prone, you arrive prone, although with high enough acrobatics you could teleport into the air (10') and take an acrobatics check to not take damage. If you beat DC20, you can turn the fall into an acrobatics maneuver and with the Essential rules, end the fall with no damage and standing up.

Shadow Elf did a similar thing with the ghost we fought in the first ship: it teleported into the air, and "fell" prone but since she floated, the prone condition disappeared.

By the way, I thought your immobilisation trick was a ranged attack that you could perform in melee. Obviously, I'd rather you didn't loose the turn standing up if it can be avoided.

Grey Wolf

[Scylfing]

Well yeah there is that, but to be able to do that I have to first use Vestige of Leraje to gain access to that vestige augment, then use Eyes of the Vestige, which does indeed immobilize the target. The other option is Frigid Blade, which is -6 speed if it starts its turn adjacent to me. Either way we're looking at an Action Point turn for me to immobilize anything this round, since it's pretty unlikely Medinah will be able to pass that Acrobatics check.

Wait, she has those Equilibrium Boots now so she wouldn't necessarily be prone! Can a free action be used before your turn in the first round of combat? I'm pretty sure immediate actions can't be, but not sure about free actions.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Scylfing

Wait, she has those Equilibrium Boots now so she wouldn't necessarily be prone! Can a free action be used before your turn in the first round of combat? I'm pretty sure immediate actions can't be, but not sure about free actions.

I believe no; no-actions yes, free actions no. But I'd check a power that happens on initiative roll, to see what kind of action it has. Whatever it is, that's the one you want.

GW

[Shadow_Elf]

You know, I've been reviewing the half efreet and half marie radials, and I am trying to decide what in the Hells I was on when I made them. I think I will change them both to be more reasonable; as written, they are both Dwarven resilience (commonly thought of as the best racial power) on steroids.

And yes, NP, that is a miss. Expect the other thing's turn this evening, as well as fixes for those borked racials.

EDIT: Medinah can use her boots. Free action is totally legal in these circumstances. In a surprise round, I think not, but this was just a case of them winning inish.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

You know, I've been reviewing the half efreet and half marie radials

Now I'm picturing half-efreet wheels.

GW

[Dekkah]

I kinda agree Shadow, you should change that power.

Maybe you should not have him spend a surge, and simply gain 5 (10 paragon or 15 Epic) Temp HP on activation, and gain the aura for allies until bloodied.

It turn into a little buff (instead of healing) and group protection limited by bloodied status, which I think was the spirit of what you first wanted.

[Scylfing]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

EDIT: Medinah can use her boots. Free action is totally legal in these circumstances. In a surprise round, I think not, but this was just a case of them winning inish.

Cool, thanks. And thank you, Vertasi.

[Shadow_Elf]

My stupid smart phone and its autocorrect made all those typos. In general, if some words in my posts seem weird, assume they were typed on a tiny keyboard with a tiny screen and moderated by a beyond-useless spellcheck system .

How does this sound, for the two powers?

Action: Minor Action
Requirement: You must not be bloodied.
Effect: Spend a healing surge, but regain no hitpoints. Instead, gain temporary hitpoints equal to your healing surge value. While you still have temporary hit points OR until you gain new temporary hitpoints, you gain an aura out to 1 square. Each enemy in the aura takes 3/6/9 fire damage at the end of each of your turns (Efreet). Each ally in the aura gains 3/6/9 temporary HP at the end of each of your turns (Marid).

Does that sound more reasonable?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

My stupid smart phone and its autocorrect made all those typos. In general, if some words in my posts seem weird, assume they were typed on a tiny keyboard with a tiny screen and moderated by a beyond-useless spellcheck system .

How does this sound, for the two powers?

Action: Minor Action
Requirement: You must not be bloodied.
Effect: Spend a healing surge, but regain no hitpoints. Instead, gain temporary hitpoints equal to your healing surge value. While you still have temporary hit points OR until you gain new temporary hitpoints, you gain an aura out to 1 square. Each enemy in the aura takes 3/6/9 fire damage at the end of each of your turns (Efreet). Each ally in the aura gains 3/6/9 temporary HP at the end of each of your turns (Marid).

Does that sound more reasonable?

It is more reasonable, but I can't imagine a scenario in which, actions allowing, you wouldn't spend this power in the very first turn of every combat. The old version restricted you to the narrow band between bloodied and bloodied + HS, since you regained HP. Here, being THP, you can pretty much start combat with an extra HS worth of life.

Why not change it to usable only while bloodied? Is it due to fluff?

Yours,

Grey Wolf

PS: I'll freely admit I'm terrible at homebrewing, so feel free to ignore me if I'm ignoring something obvious to the rest of you guys.

[Shadow_Elf]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

It is more reasonable, but I can't imagine a scenario in which, actions allowing, you wouldn't spend this power in the very first turn of every combat. The old version restricted you to the narrow band between bloodied and bloodied + HS, since you regained HP. Here, being THP, you can pretty much start combat with an extra HS worth of life.

Why not change it to usable only while bloodied? Is it due to fluff?

Yours,

Grey Wolf

PS: I'll freely admit I'm terrible at homebrewing, so feel free to ignore me if I'm ignoring something obvious to the rest of you guys.

Well, it still costs a surge. I do suppose you can guarantee that you will want that HP at some point in the encounter, but you also want to get some use out of the other features as well. Hmm... What if it affected all in the aura, was only usable while unbloodied, aura 1, costs no surge, restores no HP? That would likely be more reasonable.

[Dekkah]

Actually, if your goal is to ensure it isnt a simple no brainer/use it at the beggining of the fight, you kinda need to have it restore some HP (making the character have to wait and plan for the right timing).

On the other hand, right you are, it does cost an Healing surge and you will end up dry if you simply use it everytime... that is if you are the kind of DM who plan multiple encounters and force players to manage their Surges...

I am still unsure of the right solution.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

Well, it still costs a surge. I do suppose you can guarantee that you will want that HP at some point in the encounter, but you also want to get some use out of the other features as well. Hmm... What if it affected all in the aura, was only usable while unbloodied, aura 1, costs no surge, restores no HP? That would likely be more reasonable.

I think that goes too far and now feels a little too weak. Mind you, since I tend to play only humans, dwarves and shifters, I am not even well versed in racial powers, but of the three, the shifter its the closest one to what you want, and it gets a small regen and extra damage for the rest of the encounter once bloodied.

You want to accomplish something similar, except while not bloodied. The issue, of course, is that anything that happens while not bloodied is likely to get used immediately at the start of each combat. This was counterbalanced by the HP gain, which meant you'd wait until the gain wasn't wasted. Without HP on the table, that delaying impulse is gone.

The efreet effect is of course a minion killer, which IMO makes it better than the small THP (the poor man's resist), but they can be considered roughly equal - except I'd give the THP gain to the PC as well.

Tell me, do you want an effect that isn't automatically on at the start of every combat, or do you consider that an acceptable proposition? I can offer better suggestions once I know where you are on that topic. For example, an alternative is that for the cost of a HS you gain half your HSV in HP, half in THP, and start the 3/6/9 aura, which ends once you refresh or run out of THP.

[Shadow_Elf]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

I think that goes too far and now feels a little too weak. Mind you, since I tend to play only humans, dwarves and shifters, I am not even well versed in racial powers, but ff the three, the shifter its the closest one to what you want, and it gets a small regen and extra damage for the rest of the encounter once bloodied.

You want to accomplish something similar, except while not bloodied. The issue, of course, is that anything that happens while not bloodied is likely to get used immediately at the start of each combat. This was counterbalanced by the HP gain, which meant you'd wait until the gain wasn't wasted. Without HP on the table, that delaying impulse is gone.

The efreet effect is of course a minion killer, which IMO makes it better than the small THP (the poor man's resist), but they can be considered roughly equal - except I'd give the THP gain to the PC as well.

Tell me, do you want an effect that isn't automatically on at the start of every combat, or do you consider that an acceptable proposition? I can offer better suggestions once I know where you are on that topic. For example, an alternative is that for the cost of a HS you gain half your HSV in HP, half in THP, and start the 3/6/9 aura, which ends once you refresh or run out of THP.

Yeah, I don't want it to be a no-brainer "opening spell", but I also don't want it to be a "auto-kill minions / poor-man's resist PLUS surge ALL FOR a minor action". I suppose the only reason I made the "while not bloodied" caveat was to make the user time the heal properly... I suppose, if I remove the heal and buff the other effects slightly, it could be a while-bloodied aura a la Shifter.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

Yeah, I don't want it to be a no-brainer "opening spell", but I also don't want it to be a "auto-kill minions / poor-man's resist PLUS surge ALL FOR a minor action". I suppose the only reason I made the "while not bloodied" caveat was to make the user time the heal properly... I suppose, if I remove the heal and buff the other effects slightly, it could be a while-bloodied aura a la Shifter.

OK, I'm switching to thinking only of tactical abilities.

Off the top of my head, I don't think you need to buff the efreet's effect much - if the aura is while bloodied, it is already comparable to the shifter's: no regen, but auto-damage (6!) to every enemy around him, every turn. The shifter gets a mere 2 extra damage, and has to hit - but does get regen. Since the shifter effect is until the end of combat, while this effect is presumably until knocked out or healed, I'd say they are about equal. As to the healing aura... that does feel a little underwhelming. So I'd have it affect the PC as well. Or possibly have it give a secondary buff, such as a bonus to ST against certain effects that are thematically appropriate (I don't know, illusions? poisons? domination? baneful shifting?)

Grey Wolf

[Shadow_Elf]

The next monster turn will have to wait until tomorrow evening. I promise it'll be up sometime tomorrow, but I haven't got the time left tonight.

I'll keep thinking about this racial power issue while at work tomorrow.

[Reverent-One]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

You know, I've been reviewing the half efreet and half marie radials, and I am trying to decide what in the Hells I was on when I made them. I think I will change them both to be more reasonable; as written, they are both Dwarven resilience (commonly thought of as the best racial power) on steroids.

What? That's crazy talk sir, who would think such a thing?

[Dekkah]

Here is a few ideas to help feed your reflexion (in the spirit of keeping it on not bloodied side. :

Maybe you could keep it as first written, but make it a daily... would make its use limited and more strategic.

Reduce its power then turn its activation as a standard action, but that would make it less useful during battle, and still quite good when you have preparation time. Could be a move action, but not sure it make sense to do so. Also, if you find a standard is a bit too much, add Special : Can be used as minor when you spend an AP (This restrict the easy use to once per two encounters and spending aan AP isnt always efficient at the start of combat).

Maybe add a sustain cost (not sure it would affect everyone evenly )

Instead of making the character loose a surge, have his take loose hp every round (cannot be reduced) at the end of his turn (same his level deals/give temp HP or something along those lines). While it still will be more efficient to use at the start of battle, I dont think I would use every battle as in the end it probably cost more than a simple surge to maintain and use group ressources to keep you able to use it long term (keep you not bloodied). I am not sure this would be balanced though.... I didnt not do the maths.


My ideas might be a little wild here, sorry :)

[Dekkah]

How about make it like this (bolded changes) :

Healing Rain (encounter power)
•You can channel your life energy into elemental water, which you can use to protect yourself and bolster your allies
•Encounter * Aura - Healing
•Immediate Interrupt - Personal
•Trigger : You take damage
•Effect: Spend a healing surge. Recude the damage taken by up to your healing surge value. You gain an aura of healing rain out to two squares. At the start of each of your turns, each ally in the aura gains 3 temporary hit points. Increase to 6 temporary hit points at level 11, and to 9 temporary hit points at level 21. The aura lasts until you are bloodied.
•Special: You cannot use this power if you are bloodied.



Heart of Fire (encounter power)
•Your soul burns with an inner flame that burns as brightly as elemental fire.
•Encounter * Aura, Fire
•Immediate Interrupt - Personal
•Trigger : You take damage
•Effect: Spend a healing surge. Recude the damage taken by up to your healing surge value. You gain an aura of fire out to two squares. At the start of each of your turns, each enemy in the aura takes 3 fire damage. Increase this damage to 6 fire damage at level 11 and to 9 fire damage at level 21. The aura lasts until you are bloodied.
•Special: You cannot use this power if you are bloodied.


I am unsure if interrupt action are more valuable than minors (Maybe at lower level when you have less options...), but here are my thoughts on the changes i suggest here.
First, reducing some damage by a full Surge value may seem much, but it do use an healing surge,. Also, it wont really happen often that you really reduce it by that much (unless you wait to get hit by a powerful blow - which may never come or happen after you are bloodied...). Having it trigger on damage taken make it a bit less reliable (you have less control on when it happens) as you try to avoid receiving damage (usually) and it may not come up right away and you'll have to consider if it is worth it at that point.
I reduced the THP/damage value to be in par with usual feat/power scaling.

I also changed the timing of when it affect allies/enemies to start of turn. That way, it give less control to the player (his allies have to come to him on their turn to get the benefit) and the enemies have a chance to evade the damage aura (keeping the fire aura 2 give a choice to the adjacent enemies on their turn... stay for the damage or probably risk an OA getting away.... if still to strong, aura could be reduced to 1).

If you think the water aura is too strong, reduce it to 1... if too weak, maybe make it so it also affect the character (but that might be a bit too much as it help him keep the aura longer....)

How does this look?

[Dekkah]

Just letting you guys know that I probably wont be able to reply from 15:30 (that is in 30 minutes), up to sunday morning.
If my turn comes up during that time, you can put me on delay right away to let the rest of my allies play, but i'd like a chance to play before the next round (well the monster turn).

I'll post ASAP sunday.

Good weekend all.

[Scylfing]

Do we still want Medinah to try to immobilize the dragon that's on the ground, or does having the third one appear by Kihtsah change things?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Scylfing

Do we still want Medinah to try to immobilize the dragon that's on the ground, or does having the third one appear by Kihtsah change things?

My desire to immobilise the south dragon was so we had at least one we could melee - if they all decide to fly, we're screwed. Obviously that one will now stay put until at least my turn, so that will work. You need not do any weird hijinks to immobilise any particular dragon.

Grey Wolf

[Scylfing]

Well how do you like that, that's two crits in one day (the other one being in "The Five of the Realm").

30 + (4d8)[21]

And I'll have Medinah shift to J14 and use her move action to curse Dragon1, since he's 3 squares away and the other two dragons are four.

[Dekkah]

Broken rolls

Attack on ID1 : (1D20+18)[20] VS Fortitude
Attack on ID3 : (1D20+20)[34] VS Fortitude

Attack on ID3 : (1D20+21)[23] VS Ac (Should be 25... I forgot the CA bonus)

So sad (two 2s)..... I guess that balance the two crits...

[Reverent-One]

Am I correct in assuming Alvah hit and teleported me, and that all of the dragons are on the ground at the moment?

[Dekkah]

I ccant be sure about having hit but I hope 34 does hit....

I also beleive ID2 is 3 square up ... there other should be on the ground.

[Shadow_Elf]

Scyl, you can only use Warlock's Curse once per round. Do you have a different move action you could perform?

Also, for this encounter, assume anything above a 30 hits, and anything below a 25 misses. These aren't necessarily the dragon's highest/lowest defense scores, but they are the nearest round multiples of five to their highest and lowest scores.

[Scylfing]

Oh I thought that was only for dealing the damage. Well, I don't believe I was close enough to mark Dragon1, so I would have just moved next to it.

[Reverent-One]

FYI, I took my turn (and rolled for crap), but the post is invisible.