[Hourglass of Zihaja D&D 4e] Heroes on a Sea of Swords OOC II

[Dekkah]

(and a surge, but who ever runs out of surges?).

Well you clearly havent been in one of my games lol
Most of the extended rest happen because one or a few of the character run out of surges.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Dekkah

Well you clearly havent been in one of my games lol
Most of the extended rest happen because one or a few of the character run out of surges.

Interesting. Must have plenty of leaders. I find that we run out of powers that use surges before we run out of surges, in every game I've played. Closest thing was a PHB-only Paladin that used surges to both attack and lay hands, and even then I never got more than 2 surges away from 0.

I'm interested in how the dynamic will change with Figment and the summons, though. And the 2-second-winds-as-minors that druids get at level 21 also would mean going through them quicker (even more if I ever lay my hands on a walking wounded cloak). But as it stands, we don't run out because we can't access them. One of the reasons for making a summon druid was a better resource use of surges, because they really feel like the one thing that I always have too much of.

Grey Wolf

[Scylfing]

Since she's prone it'd be best for Medinah to be teleported out of melee range actually. She still has a few ranged attacks she can use, I was thinking Acrid Decay on the two she's cursed, so there's that at least, but it doesn't target a very good defense (Fort) and she gets -2 to attacks for being prone. Still seems like the best option if we want her to attack this round though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Scylfing

Since she's prone it'd be best for Medinah to be teleported out of melee range actually. She still has a few ranged attacks she can use, I was thinking Acrid Decay on the two she's cursed, so there's that at least, but it doesn't target a very good defense (Fort) and she gets -2 to attacks for being prone. Still seems like the best option if we want her to attack this round though.

Away from books, so can't check, but is the -2 to attack RAW? I recall prone means you grant CA to melee and get +2 to defences from ranged, but I don't remember any negatives to ranged attack. I'd expect a guy laying on the ground shooting (with, say, a crossbow) at targets would have better aim, not worse.

In any case, if acid decay is an encounter power, I'd say go for it, if the choice is between that and not doing anything at all this turn.

Grey Wolf

[Scylfing]

Yeah the -2 to attacks is RAW. I think it makes sense for melee attacks to get a penalty since you can't put the full effort into your swing, but I agree with you that ranged--or at least anything that's not a bow attack (but not a crossbow)--shouldn't necessarily be penalized.

But yeah, Acrid Decay is an encounter power. I won't be able to take my turn until later today though, but that's most likely what I'll use.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Scylfing

But yeah, Acrid Decay is an encounter power. I won't be able to take my turn until later today though, but that's most likely what I'll use.

I feel your pain. My own turn was an undignified crawl to get close enough to a target - I'm surprised it turned out as well as it did.

GW

[Dekkah]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c

Interesting. Must have plenty of leaders. I find that we run out of powers that use surges before we run out of surges, in every game I've played. Closest thing was a PHB-only Paladin that used surges to both attack and lay hands, and even then I never got more than 2 surges away from 0.

I'm interested in how the dynamic will change with Figment and the summons, though. And the 2-second-winds-as-minors that druids get at level 21 also would mean going through them quicker (even more if I ever lay my hands on a walking wounded cloak). But as it stands, we don't run out because we can't access them. One of the reasons for making a summon druid was a better resource use of surges, because they really feel like the one thing that I always have too much of.

Grey Wolf

Well it is more they have plenty of encounters.
I am not saying every day they are drained of their surges, but their combat day usually have more than one encounter.
I've found a long time ago that if you want to challenge the players, you need to plan at least 3-5 encounters before their rest to force them to manage their resources. Otherwise, well they simply go nova (use all their dailies and stuff and the combat arent really challenging).
Note that I am not saying that I never do 1 or 2 combat days (and there is a lot of 0 combat days too), but in my experience, if you dont pressure the players, they start using it all in the first two encounter and simply do the 5 minute workday thing.
Also, they rarely hit 0 surge (so you are kinda right- but it still happens), but it happens and they learned to manage the surge well knowing I can challenge them at any time with a surprise encounter.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Dekkah

Well it is more they have plenty of encounters.
I am not saying every day they are drained of their surges, but their combat day usually have more than one encounter.
I've found a long time ago that if you want to challenge the players, you need to plan at least 3-5 encounters before their rest to force them to manage their resources. Otherwise, well they simply go nova (use all their dailies and stuff and the combat arent really challenging).
Note that I am not saying that I never do 1 or 2 combat days (and there is a lot of 0 combat days too), but in my experience, if you dont pressure the players, they start using it all in the first two encounter and simply do the 5 minute workday thing.
Also, they rarely hit 0 surge (so you are kinda right- but it still happens), but it happens and they learned to manage the surge well knowing I can challenge them at any time with a surprise encounter.

Fair enough. I suspect that the other major difference between our experiences is the level of the parties. This game is the highest level I've played, with 3 dailies per head. I normally play low-level games (1-3) where you only have 1 daily, so most of your concerns above don't apply. Dailies are saved for bosses and/or hard spots.

Grey Wolf

[Dekkah]

Actually no, I am a low level player/DM as well.
It might well simply come from the crew of players I had when I switched to 4.0 (and my own personnal DM/player style too).
At first, the players were very agressive on any encounters and wanted to rest a lot (when it isnt really logical because their dailies had been used).
I kinda taught them (sometimes the hard way) to manage it.
This game is actually the first one I play at Paragon.

I only have one other game that reached level 15 (as DM), and they played all the way form 1 to 15.

But you are not the first one to tell me that healing surge isnt the problem usually. I guess I have a different intake on this as I usually use HS to evaluate what my players can and cannot do. And I usually played witha friend like that... I guess the way the DM plan his things also can affect this percpetion.

[Scylfing]

Where it gets really nasty is when the monsters deal damage in healing surges. Chambers seems to be a fan of those.

[Chambers]

Originally Posted by Scylfing

Where it gets really nasty is when the monsters deal damage in healing surges. Chambers seems to be a fan of those.

Hey, you open your psyche to a city-size sinkhole of evil, it's gonna sting a bit.

And Undead too. If they can't suck your life-essence from you while you're still living they don't deserve the title.

Edit: ...although you may be right. I have run Revenge of the Iron Lich twice and generally seem to enjoy it more than the players.

[Shadow_Elf]

In case it becomes relevant at any point, creatures that lack a full complement of actions cannot delay their turn, and those incapable of off-turn actions cannot ready actions. Therefore, dazed prevents both delaying and action-readying. This is one of the player downsides of playing with real initiative instead of group initiative.

Also, I would not just casually dismiss the expenditure of surges. Even Rahman with his Energy Conservation is not immune to a long adventuring day, and this one is just beginning .

[Dekkah]

Dear god, why cant I rolled like in my DM thread!!.... crappy rolls again... maybe I hit ID3... I hope...


I moved Kihtsah in melee range so he can attack.
I turned Medinah Invisible and moved her to a safer spot (giving you time to recover - and I dont think you will be targeted there... I could had send you closer to battle, but you might have been targeted by some burst/Blast.)

[Scylfing]

Thanks, that will surely help. I have a plan for next round, provided Medinah doesn't again get dazed or stunned or DM knows what.

[Dekkah]

Shadow, I forgot a +1 on my attack rool.... so it is 24 and 29 VS Fort.

[Shadow_Elf]

Expect the enemy turns tomorrow evening, along with a map update.

Its a good thing you had that +1, Dekkah. Made one of those into a hit that would have been a miss .

[Dekkah]

Hurray for that +1 forgotten bonus!

Lol...

[Shadow_Elf]

Since a lot of movement happened this turn, I'm going to just assume that the target were legal this round, Chambers, but are you using Static Charge as a burst, or a blast? I'm trying to figure out how, even with Resonating Thunder, you'd hit both dragons with a Blast 4...

[Chambers]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

Since a lot of movement happened this turn, I'm going to just assume that the target were legal this round, Chambers, but are you using Static Charge as a burst, or a blast? I'm trying to figure out how, even with Resonating Thunder, you'd hit both dragons with a Blast 4...

::facepalm::

I read it as a burst. Wishful thinking. Coulda sworn it was a burst. Sorry about that.

[Shadow_Elf]

No issue. I won't count it against you in this encounter (too much bookkeeping involved in changing that), just keep in mind the shape of the spell for future rounds.

Also, you do know that it does not include CHA damage, right? The CHA damage jumps to an adjacent enemy instead, so this should be doing less damage than your Bolt.

[Chambers]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Elf

No issue. I won't count it against you in this encounter (too much bookkeeping involved in changing that), just keep in mind the shape of the spell for future rounds.

Also, you do know that it does not include CHA damage, right? The CHA damage jumps to an adjacent enemy instead, so this should be doing less damage than your Bolt.

I...was not aware of that. Got so used to everything adding ability modifier damage.

[Scylfing]

Question on the dragon who fled: how many squares off the board is he, and what kind of cover is he getting from the trees, if any?

[Shadow_Elf]

You're not sure, since it rounded the corner after passing the tree. You have no LoS or LoE to it.

[Shadow_Elf]

Also, Rahman is Dazed, so he can't enforce his Aegis. Jalil takes an extra 16 damage.

[Chambers]

Cool. So from 13 temp, she takes a total of 22 damage (she resists the 6 lightning) which is reduced to 9 damage. Should be at 92/101, 0 Temp after the dragons turn.

[Dekkah]

Just to let you know that if someone get hit for more than 11 damages by ID1, I'll use Chord of resilience to reduce the damage by 11 (immediate interrupt)

[Chambers]

Originally Posted by Dekkah

Just to let you know that if someone get hit for more than 11 damages by ID1, I'll use Chord of resilience to reduce the damage by 11 (immediate interrupt)

Not sure which dragon hit her, but if you can use it on Jalil that'd help conserve healing surges (by manner of her not needing to spend one).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Originally Posted by Chambers

Not sure which dragon hit her, but if you can use it on Jalil that'd help conserve healing surges (by manner of her not needing to spend one).

ID1 didn't attack you in the last update - its turn if after Rahman's, who is next. I'm keeping it locked in place, although I suspect my damage output is low, since I probably missed my main attack.

Grey Wolf

[Dekkah]

Chambers :
I am not sure if Shadow would accept that I reactivly use my power (Chord of resilliance) to save you some damage.... more so that it isnt really my first idea.
I dont mind doing it if Shadow judge it is ok though.

[Shadow_Elf]

Originally Posted by Dekkah

Chambers :
I am not sure if Shadow would accept that I reactivly use my power (Chord of resilliance) to save you some damage.... more so that it isnt really my first idea.
I dont mind doing it if Shadow judge it is ok though.

Doesn't that power only work if ID1 attacked Kalil? It was iD2.