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Old 06-03-2012, 07:37 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Lix Lorn
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Default The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

THE FIENDISH-LESSER DEMONS/DEVILS

The Fiendish are a strange race, a form of minor fiend that bears the mixed blood of the devils and demons of the darker planes. They bear leathery wings, or sometimes feathery wings, like a mockery of celestials, and often bear horns upon their head and a superior smirk.

TYPICAL FIENDISH
Most Fiendish are a little arrogant, convinced of their own superiority to those around them. It rarely helps matters when it is pointed out that it’s true. To no-one’s surprise, Fiendish have a slight tendency towards selfishness and evil, although to nowhere near the degree that most other races expect of them. Some Fiendish carry the prejudice of their ancestors-demonic and devilish fiendish that care for their ancestry rarely get on.

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION
Most Fiendish have skin of a deep, bloody red, although some have darker colours, night-black or even human colored skin. They often have horns, albeit vestigial, and bear great wings upon their back. They are strong and fast, hale and hearty, and rarely seen without a grin. The Fiendish are hard to keep down, perpetually planning their next adventure.

Relations With Other Races
Most races find it difficult to look past the Fiendish heritage, and view them as a species ruled by the darkness of their blood. Often, they find themselves serving as merchants, spies or even assassins. Often, the slow contact afforded by such agents allows the true nature of their race to become apparent-while a little self-centred, they aren’t really that bad.

Alignment
As is expected, Fiendish have a slight tendency towards evil. However, more of them are good than neutral-those that do not embrace the dark stereotypes tend to work against them. Both chaos and law are equally prevalent, as the Fiendish can bear heritage from both sides of the blood war.

Lands
Fiendish like the mountains, settling in higher, cooler places. Detractors claim that rocky terrain reminds them of the hellscapes of their ancestors. Sadly, this is likely true-some small groups of Fiendish do still live with their ancestors, and fulfil every stereotype the other races have of them.

Religion
As descendants of the varied lords of hell, many Fiendish ignore religion as a concept. Some worship the dark gods, while others pray to the gods of light and good.

Language
Many Fiendish speak simply in Common, but both Abyssal and Infernal see use among their number.

Common Names
Fiendish name are effectively a split between the pretentious-names such as Azrael and Beelzebub that glorify ancient ideals, and the mundane names common in more humanoid races.

Adventurers
The Fiendish love of adventure, and their commonly roguish nature, makes them excellent adventurers, capable of contributing in a myriad of ways.

Racial Traits
Abilities: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha. The Fiendish are superior in many ways to most common species, capable of competing with them on a level base even at their specialities.
Size: Medium
Type: Outsider (Evil, Native). The Fiendish are not subject to spells and effects that only affect humanoids. Spells and effects always consider them evil, regardless of their actual alignment.
Movement Rate: 30ft land, as well as 30ft flight (good).
Skin of the Fiends: The Fiendish have natural Resist equal to half their ECL. This Resist is penetrated by evil, as well as one of either law or chaos, chosen at character creation.
Resist is applicable to all forms of damage that do not penetrate all resistances. It fails to Force damage, as well as damage that penetrates DR or Energy Resistance.
Fiendish Heritage: The blood of the fiends lies dormant in Fiendish. With time, they can unlock the secrets of their ancestors. At each Effective Character Level divisible by three, they may choose a single bonus Demonic or Devilish feat.
Favoured Class: Cleric, Factotum or Fatetamer
LA: +2

Racial Feats
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

(Reserve just in case)

So yeah! Any balance suggestions would be helpful, as would locations of obscure demons/devils with interesting abilities.

As a note, I'd consider making these feats Fighter feats, so a Fiendish fighter would end with masses of options...

Also, I'd really appreciate any locations for Good outsiders like angels, archons, and... the... uh... the other ones. Guardinals and Eladrin! Yeah, them. They're harder to find, which will make the next one of these harder.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:33 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

I absolutely love the feats. I feel like that they're what all feats should be (not necessarily demonic/diabolical but incredibly cool and useful at all levels -- something that justifies the expenditure of such a limited resource).

If you're looking for the good outsiders, your best bet is the Book of Exalted Deeds, which contains pretty much all of the information you need on archons, guardinals, and eladrins, as well as new ones like asuras (basically, they are fallen archons, but on the law - chaos axis rather than good - evil).
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:45 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Aww, thanks!
And that's useful. :) Thanks again.

I've been recommended that I should drop them to base LA 2...
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

+2 works I think.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:32 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Saidoro
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Honestly, if you took away the damage reduction this would probably be good at +1 LA(Ignore the Aasimar and Tiefling). +2 to all attributes is handy, but it really isn't all that powerful. Basically anyone but a factotum will have at least 2 or 3 attributes it never uses anyway and as such doesn't care about. The strongest thing about it is probably that being an outsider lets it abuse alter self.
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I mostly commented on the problematic things but I really do like this overall. It's what the tiefling should have been.
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
Honestly, if you took away the damage reduction this would probably be good at +1 LA(Ignore the Aasimar and Tiefling). +2 to all attributes is handy, but it really isn't all that powerful. Basically anyone but a factotum will have at least 2 or 3 attributes it never uses anyway and as such doesn't care about. The strongest thing about it is probably that being an outsider lets it abuse alter self.
+1 seems a bit too strong, however inefficient it's many boosts may be.
Replies in italics.

Quote:
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I mostly commented on the problematic things but I really do like this overall. It's what the tiefling should have been.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

I made a race like this once. The Kilzecru. They are only a +1 LA though and are considered lesser baatezu.

Yours has feats though. lots and lots of nice feats :D
You put a lot more effort into yours than I did, also you have a kickarse illustration. Very good work :)

I might be stealing and adapting your feats for my race in an upcoming campaign setting, if that's alright with you.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think that your race might be better than mine for what I want to do. I'll run it past my players and see what they think.

Edit edit: I'll be using your lesser centaurs too I believe
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

+2 la looks fair. maybe +1 if you cut away the DR, as three +2 stats (only class I can think of off the top of my head that uses more than 3 is monk, and that effectivly comes with a natural -5la modifier, so...) aren't that amazing in most cases.

I love the feats, and will give them better critisisms soon. just wondering, you mind if I borrrow a few of them for hollow abilities in bleachD20?
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
I made a race like this once. The Kilzecru. They are only a +1 LA though and are considered lesser baatezu.

Yours has feats though. lots and lots of nice feats :D
You put a lot more effort into yours than I did, also you have a kickarse illustration. Very good work :)

I might be stealing and adapting your feats for my race in an upcoming campaign setting, if that's alright with you.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think that your race might be better than mine for what I want to do. I'll run it past my players and see what they think.

Edit edit: I'll be using your lesser centaurs too I believe
The feats took me SO long...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackestOfMages View Post
+2 la looks fair. maybe +1 if you cut away the DR, as three +2 stats (only class I can think of off the top of my head that uses more than 3 is monk, and that effectivly comes with a natural -5la modifier, so...) aren't that amazing in most cases.

I love the feats, and will give them better critisisms soon. just wondering, you mind if I borrrow a few of them for hollow abilities in bleachD20?
Yeah, anyone feel free to use everything. That's why I posted it!
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
The Tygre
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

This is incredible work. I'm especially fond of the 'Normal' descriptions on the feat lines. Well done!
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:31 AM   Top  -  End  -  #12
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Wow, thanks! I've always subscribed to the school of thought that 'normal' is a place primarily to make sarcastic comments.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:40 AM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

I'm honestly not a big fan of the DR and think it could be replaced with almost anything else. Question: how do they fly? Big ol' wings? Take to the air like a WIZARD?
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
I'm honestly not a big fan of the DR and think it could be replaced with almost anything else.
It seemed the most obviously generic fiendish ability to grant.

Quote:
Question: how do they fly? Big ol' wings? Take to the air like a WIZARD?
Yes.
...

Either. As I've said, the race is intended to allow for any fiendish idea, thus the slew of options.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:08 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
Lord_Gareth
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Well, at the barest minimum it needs to be reworded to, "Fiendish characters have DR X/Good, Lawful, or Chaotic, where X is half of their equivalent character level."
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Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Why would it need to be reworded like that?
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
Lord_Gareth
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
Why would it need to be reworded like that?
Clarity of wording, mostly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

That seems less clear to me, since DR X/Good, Law or Chaos means Good, law, or chaos, not good and law or chaos.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
Lord_Gareth
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Quote:
This damage reduction is penetrated by good, as well as either law or chaos.
This does not make your intent clear. If you want it to be penetrated by all three, my wording is what you need. If you want it to be Good AND one of the other two, you'd need, "DR X/Good and chaos or law".
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Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

I want to play this race.

But unfortunately at LA +2 I never will unless we ignore level adjustments. Level Adjustments are the single thing I hate most about d&d.
LA Races never give anything that would put them over a normal race with the same in class levels. Especially class levels as a Sorcerer/Wizard/Cleric/Druid.
So I'm pretty biased against LA things.

Rare exceptions are significantly larger boosts to ability scores, potent abilities that aren't usable barely once a day, or interesting immunity.


The only thing I can think of for this gal' would be flight. I might play it as is if I'm creating a character and design it around that feature.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure LA +1 is the most I'd give up for this. I'd just go play a lesser tiefling and steal the fluff from this and pretend they count for your sexy looking feats- Which are feats, not granted racial abilities so I'd have to further wait and pay out of normal levels to obtain which isn't so bad, its just when you already paid two entire levels for it...


This much is just an idea, but you could make a small suggestion window below the racial traits.
LA+0, Choose two scores to make +2, remove flight.
LA+0, Choose one score to make +2, remove flight, give a bonus devilish feat.
LA+1, remove flight.
LA +2, as is. Maybe a single bonus devilish feat.


I wouldn't be commenting if I didn't love the race :3 Its very nice, and I might tweak it just a mite bit and play it in whatever my next game is.
In fact, the more I type the more I like it. For its fluffybits.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:06 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
Lord_Gareth
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Hey Cipher - LA buyoff is a thing. The buyoff on +2 is pretty cheap.
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Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:08 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

They DO have flight. xD 30ft (good) flight.
It's there under movement speed.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
Hey Cipher - LA buyoff is a thing. The buyoff on +2 is pretty cheap.
LA is evil. Evil I tell you!
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
That seems less clear to me, since DR X/Good, Law or Chaos means Good, law, or chaos, not good and law or chaos.
Actually, it does. Lack of a comma in front of Law connects Law and Chaos, while the comma before Law is indicative of a placeholder for and. Thus, without a comma after Law, it actually does mean Good, and Law or Chaos
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
Lix Lorn
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

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Originally Posted by Shadow Lord View Post
Actually, it does. Lack of a comma in front of Law connects Law and Chaos, while the comma before Law is indicative of a placeholder for and. Thus, without a comma after Law, it actually does mean Good, and Law or Chaos
Is that so? Huh.
Well, if I don't know it, then probably other people wouldn't know, so it could stand to be clearer.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:12 AM   Top  -  End  -  #26
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Like the picture. Nothing like a well dressed evil to brighten my day.

I don't like the thought of LA but seeing as I don't play as much as I'd like I don't have a lot of experience with it.

There are two things I would like to see, but only because I am greedy when it comes to flavourful homebrew.
1st- could you make a higher level version of that 'flawed wish' ability I find it awesome.

Second what is the best way to get the most feats possible? Owthro(?) made 'licids' long ago and he had it that at certain HD amounts you would gain additional feats. Granted it was a different idea but I like racial feats and abilities.

This would have been a nice addition for the Race Race Base Class Challenge. It would have taken a little more time but it would have been an awesome addition.

I like your work Lix Lorn and I am glad that you along with other awesome hombrewers are giving Races some homebrewing love.

Oh! One more thing. Where can I find that FateTamer base class you mentioned. My google fu is weak.

*wishful thinking*

I would also love to see your other homebrew see some sunshine again. Maybe make a thread of your collected races / or a thread where everyone can post their races. I would like to see if you could find a picture that goes with the mimette as well as consider creating some feats for your other homebrew.

*Wishful thinking*

Last edited by Merchant : 06-07-2012 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:00 AM   Top  -  End  -  #27
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

So its basically a build your own demon ruleset. Nice.
I think you should detail the LA buyoff, maybe give each ability its LA adjustment so that it is more official than "DM's should consider..."
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:57 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

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Originally Posted by Merchant View Post
Like the picture. Nothing like a well dressed evil to brighten my day.

I don't like the thought of LA but seeing as I don't play as much as I'd like I don't have a lot of experience with it.
LA is admittedly unpleasant in low level games, but it mostly balances out at high levels. Unless it stops you getting 9th level spells. >_>

Quote:
There are two things I would like to see, but only because I am greedy when it comes to flavourful homebrew.
1st- could you make a higher level version of that 'flawed wish' ability I find it awesome.
Hmmm. I could tryyy...

Quote:
Second what is the best way to get the most feats possible? Owthro(?) made 'licids' long ago and he had it that at certain HD amounts you would gain additional feats. Granted it was a different idea but I like racial feats and abilities.
Well, as I said earlier, I'd consider making demonic and devilish feats count as Fighter feats. Fighter becomes more interesting when you get covered in shiny demonic abilities.

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This would have been a nice addition for the Race Race Base Class Challenge. It would have taken a little more time but it would have been an awesome addition.
I don't really do the challenges... too slow. xD

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I like your work Lix Lorn and I am glad that you along with other awesome hombrewers are giving Races some homebrewing love.

Oh! One more thing. Where can I find that FateTamer base class you mentioned. My google fu is weak.
Races are too rare!
Fatetamer. Most homebrew classes and stuff I mention will be from the playground.

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*wishful thinking*

I would also love to see your other homebrew see some sunshine again. Maybe make a thread of your collected races / or a thread where everyone can post their races. I would like to see if you could find a picture that goes with the mimette as well as consider creating some feats for your other homebrew.

*Wishful thinking*
Pretty much all of my homebrew is in my extended signature. I would love to get a pic for the Mimette, but sadly couldn't find one that fit my mental image without breaking board rules.

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Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
So its basically a build your own demon ruleset. Nice.
I think you should detail the LA buyoff, maybe give each ability its LA adjustment so that it is more official than "DM's should consider..."
Well theoretically, they're all balanced with another. I'd probably say +3 LA is worth two feats, maybe five feats for +4, nine for +5, etc.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:56 AM   Top  -  End  -  #29
Volthawk
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Shiny. I'll have to try this race out sometime (I'm seeing if a DM will accept it for a PbP now, actually).

Agreed on loving the "Normal:" bits of the feats, though.
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Last edited by Volt : 06-07-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:06 AM   Top  -  End  -  #30
Lix Lorn
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Default Re: The Fiendish [3.5 Race] Demonic Heritage and Masses of Feats

Heh, good luck and thank you.
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