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Homebrew Design Roll up your sleeves and get working: there's lots of homebrewin' to be done! Post your custom creation for critiques or review those of your peers.

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Old 07-25-2012, 10:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #331
Lord_Gareth
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
I've been thinking... there are already a lot of classes here, but as much as I respect and generally agree with Morph's assessment of their tiers, a bunch of it remains completely untested in actual combat scenarios. If, hypothetically, someone were to volunteer to run a mostly-almost-just-about-completely combat/'encounter' playtest, would there be any interest in that? I think I'd limit people to playing classes within 1 tier of each other (.5 tiers count as either one), and not playing their own classes to avoid authorial bias. Hypothetically, of course.
Isn't a tier also about how a class can affect a game world outside of combat?
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Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #332
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

Tiers are about how you handle encounters; combat and otherwise. If they were only about non-combat they wouldn't matter nearly as much. Actually the original tiers lists notes that in a primarily social game they don't matter nearly as much (though that's probably because you're more likely to resolve things through RP instead of use Diplomacy in such a game).
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #333
Lord_Gareth
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
Tiers are about how you handle encounters; combat and otherwise. If they were only about non-combat they wouldn't matter nearly as much. Actually the original tiers lists notes that in a primarily social game they don't matter nearly as much (though that's probably because you're more likely to resolve things through RP instead of use Diplomacy in such a game).
I did say "also about" non-combat. Also.
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Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #334
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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I did say "also about" non-combat. Also.
Oh sorry, missed that word. Yeah, non-combat does factor in and ways to win combat without actually fighting.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:08 AM   Top  -  End  -  #335
Jarian
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
Isn't a tier also about how a class can affect a game world outside of combat?
Yes, which is why I threw the 'encounter' bit in there. Traps, social situations, et cetera would be thrown in if the chosen classes revolved around them to any great degree. However, I'm offering a combat playtest first and foremost, not a campaign that happens to feature homebrew. That probably doesn't appeal to everyone, so you're perfectly free not to express interest in such.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #336
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

I actually got one of those started here...


Trust me, just run through encounters. Don't make it an actual campaign. Encounters will work better.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:57 AM   Top  -  End  -  #337
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

How about we in this thread get together and make an "obstacle course"? Like, a set of five to ten encounters each for a few different benchmark levels (1-5-10-15?) so people can run their creation through it? Something like:

-Social Situation
-Stealth Situation
-Trap
-Straightforward solo combat
-Straightforward group combat
-Trick Monster
-Overland travel

I mean, half the playground's famous homebrewers are in here anyway.
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Last edited by Eldan : 07-26-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:13 AM   Top  -  End  -  #338
Madara
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
How about we in this thread get together and make an "obstacle course"? Like, a set of five to ten encounters each for a few different benchmark levels (1-5-10-15?) so people can run their creation through it? Something like:

-Social Situation
-Stealth Situation
-Trap
-Straightforward solo combat
-Straightforward group combat
-Trick Monster
-Overland travel

I mean, half the playground's famous homebrewers are in here anyway.
We should probably make a seperate thread for this. But it could certainly work if we divided up the work among many.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:36 AM   Top  -  End  -  #339
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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I mean, half the playground's famous homebrewers are in here anyway.
See, that makes me want to do a genuine campaign.
Playground's greatest hits!
We could sell tickets.

Edit: Wait, am I a famous homebrewer? I have no idea.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:16 PM   Top  -  End  -  #340
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

Having returned to the Playground recently, I want to say Thank You to Morph Bark for including my Ebon Initiate base class in this compendium :)

Anything else I have is fair game, though I'm going to repost a major overhaul on my Traveler class so I wouldn't even consider that one right now.

-X
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #341
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
See, that makes me want to do a genuine campaign.
Playground's greatest hits!
We could sell tickets.

Edit: Wait, am I a famous homebrewer? I have no idea.
Well, we already have a playtest game that is going good so far (crosses claws). Another would be good though (with different players and different homebrews).
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #342
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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We should probably make a seperate thread for this. But it could certainly work if we divided up the work among many.
As you wish.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #343
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

Hey Morph Bark, I was wondering if you could look at my homebrew class the Life Disciple. It's my attempt at creating a healing based invocation user that can also support allies by summoning spirit wisps. I would really appreciate it!
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #344
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alright, thanks for the input, Morph. it's supposed to be 3x the normal damage (roll normal damage, then multiply by 3, or roll damage 3 times, it doesn't matter which), with the damage type and critical changing based on whether you pick the disc or the ray. i thought i worded it clearly enough, but i guess not. can you think of a better wording?
Not right now, but if I think of a better wording you'll hear of me.

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I'm pretty comfortable with them. I'm not entirely sure about the distinction between the xenoalchemist being high tier 3 vs the connoisseur being vanilla tier 3 based on being able to install grafts on other people, since the connoisseur has a ton more personal power compared the xenoalchemist, who's pretty much purely a support class. But I was certainly aiming for that kind of power level for them. The sagittarius was also an attempt to make a fun and playable archer that can compete at higher levels, and I definitely agree with the tier 3 rank there as well.
I mainly felt the Xenoalchemist to be higher in Tier than the Connoisseur based mainly on a party set-up, in which the Xenoalchemist would be an immense aid and provide great boosts in personal power to all the other members, whereas the Connoisseur certainly is more possessive of personal power. Perhaps the Xenoalchemist could use the Buffer Tag for this reason, since Buffers are much less powerful and useful if they have a small party or go solo.

I'm glad you agree on the Tiering for them and the Sagittarius.

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I also just Tiered the Invisible Guardian, which I'd like to see this in a Gestalt with Malefactor sometime, and I'll add the Tiering Obstacle Course as a link to the first page once it's solidified.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #345
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Here's a list with more base classes: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...?topic=11714.0

And here's a list of Prestige Classes with their +/- system of tiering: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=5198.0
Ah, much appreciated! Thank you!

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Tier 5
Handyman; I briefly thought I should put this under Tier 4, but I was doubtful, primarily because skills are already easily optimized without classes and even more with them, even other classes of Tier 4 easily doing so. "When in doubt, don't do it."
Objection!

With all due respect, I believe he is flexible and powerful enough to warrant T4. He gets full proficiencies with every weapon and armor in the game. He has the most powerful skills (Iaijutsu Focus will give him bonus damage, UMD will give him magic, UPD will give him psionics). Just a quick look at him at a few levels: (Note: spoilered due to Wall'O'Text™):

Spoiler


TL;DR: he's better than a Samurai.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:05 AM   Top  -  End  -  #346
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I mourn the death of gods, for we shall never know the glorious power of the God of Meta, He who could code a perfect program, able to present us any homebrew, tell us perfectly all exploits, and tier our works flawlessly.

Worship Morphbark, so we may raise her to this status
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:45 AM   Top  -  End  -  #347
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I mourn the death of gods, for we shall never know the glorious power of the God of Meta, He who could code a perfect program, able to present us any homebrew, tell us perfectly all exploits, and tier our works flawlessly.

Worship Morphbark, so we may raise her to this status
Slightly confusing statement. Still, Morph's stuff should be more widely talked about/spread about. Morph makes good homebrew(homebrews? Hombrewses? Homebrewi? Whatever the plural of homebrew is).
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #348
Noctis Vigil
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The plural of homebrew is homebri.

Seriously, though, homebrew in general needs more publicity (though the good stuff like Morph Bark's deserves special attention ). Even my gamer friends have no idea about it when I bring it up. You'd think in a player-based community like TRPGs have more people would know about this stuff.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:45 AM   Top  -  End  -  #349
Xefas
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"Homebrewskies", obviously.

Also, would hypothetical Epic Disciplines (as outlined by the The Demented One) also be compiled here? No specific reason I ask.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #350
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"Homebrewskies", obviously.
It's true.
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Old 07-28-2012, 04:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #351
Morph Bark
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Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
Objection!

With all due respect, I believe he is flexible and powerful enough to warrant T4. He gets full proficiencies with every weapon and armor in the game. He has the most powerful skills (Iaijutsu Focus will give him bonus damage, UMD will give him magic, UPD will give him psionics).

TL;DR: he's better than a Samurai.
Thing is, everyone can do that with a little optimization of skills, feats and WBL (otherwise a Truenamer would never be viable, and it can be, it just takes tons of damage work). The fact that he can do it better by such a large margin (mainly meaning he can pull things off with less error at earlier levels) meant I did indeed doubt if I should place it in Tier 4, but in the end the only reason I should was UMD, and that still requires smart usage of WBL. Since my usual policy is "when in doubt, take the safer Tier", which usually means the one further away from Tier 3. Looking over your points of analysis over those levels, I'd say the class is pretty bad at early levels and not all that great at higher levels, but shines at the mid levels. Tell ya what, I'll put it in Tier 4, since it's still fair enough to it, and you help people set up the Tiering Obstacle Course and get someone to run the Handyman through it.

Also, I'd just like to point out that the Samurai is Tier 6, so even at Tier 5 it'd be higher than it.

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I mourn the death of gods, for we shall never know the glorious power of the God of Meta, He who could code a perfect program, able to present us any homebrew, tell us perfectly all exploits, and tier our works flawlessly.

Worship Morphbark, so we may raise her to this status
Oh my.


...wait, does that make me some kind of Haruhi? I guess some people would be more okay with me than her, considering the anime discussion earlier.

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Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
Slightly confusing statement. Still, Morph's stuff should be more widely talked about/spread about. Morph makes good homebrew(homebrews? Hombrewses? Homebrewi? Whatever the plural of homebrew is).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
The plural of homebrew is homebri.

Seriously, though, homebrew in general needs more publicity (though the good stuff like Morph Bark's deserves special attention ). Even my gamer friends have no idea about it when I bring it up. You'd think in a player-based community like TRPGs have more people would know about this stuff.
Heh, thanks. I do still have those disciplines coming up (actually two more than the ones I named, but they are even more WIP), plus a class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
"Homebrewskies", obviously.

Also, would hypothetical Epic Disciplines (as outlined by the The Demented One) also be compiled here? No specific reason I ask.
Possibly, if I add an Epic section at some point. At least then I could file the two of mine I got somewhere under that section.

You sly rabbit.

Also, someone totally needs to make an Epic Discipline based off Bayonetta. Even though I've never played that game, because I don't have the necessary console.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:28 AM   Top  -  End  -  #352
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You have neither an Xbox 360 or a PS3?

I think someone made a base class of Bayonetta. I need to look.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #353
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Tier 3
Engineer; frankly, wicked awesome. This class was really well made to be a (primarily) non-magical artificer.
Woo! Thank you for looking at it. I'm glad you liked it...and glad I hit my mark on the Tier List
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:05 AM   Top  -  End  -  #354
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You have neither an Xbox 360 or a PS3?

I think someone made a base class of Bayonetta. I need to look.
Nope, I do not. My brother owns a 360, but nobody else is allowed to play on it, even though he only plays NBA Basketball on it. We do have an American Wii! ...which means I can't even buy European games for it due to region lock. Basically, the only kind of games I can reliable play are computer games bought on Steam (and only during sales, due to money constraints on my part) and some DS games I got as gifts for birthdays or Christmas (but it's been nearly a year since I got a new one, last one was Pokemon Black).

I'd very much like to see that Bayonetta class!


Countdown: T - 50.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:02 PM   Top  -  End  -  #355
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Nope, I do not. My brother owns a 360, but nobody else is allowed to play on it, even though he only plays NBA Basketball on it. We do have an American Wii! ...which means I can't even buy European games for it due to region lock. Basically, the only kind of games I can reliable play are computer games bought on Steam (and only during sales, due to money constraints on my part) and some DS games I got as gifts for birthdays or Christmas (but it's been nearly a year since I got a new one, last one was Pokemon Black).

I'd very much like to see that Bayonetta class!
Wow. Seems like everyone plays more video games than I do. What's Bayonetta?

Quote:
Countdown: T - 50.
Is this a code?

Also, with the class finally complete, I was wondering if I could get the Dovahkiin re-tiered, just for general purposes and curiosity about how much power the perks add.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:16 PM   Top  -  End  -  #356
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Is this a code?
T minus a number is the amount of time remaining until the event occurs. There's no unit with the 50, so we can only guess how long it'll be. Hopefully not 50 centuries.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:01 PM   Top  -  End  -  #357
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Wow. Seems like everyone plays more video games than I do. What's Bayonetta?
It's a third person action game (depending on your choice of genre terms, I've heard it referred to as a "Spectacle Fighter" - in the style of God of War, Devil May Cry, Darksiders, and Dante's Inferno). You play a shapeshifting badass sex goddess who murders people in really entertaining ways. It's unabashedly gonzo in style, and is quite liberal (but highly tongue-in-cheek) with its fanservice.

If you like breasts and disemboweling angels with giant demons made of your own hair, then it's absolutely for you.

This link should tell you more, if you're interested.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:06 PM   Top  -  End  -  #358
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It's a third person action game (depending on your choice of genre terms, I've heard it referred to as a "Spectacle Fighter" - in the style of God of War, Devil May Cry, Darksiders, and Dante's Inferno). You play a shapeshifting badass sex goddess who murders people in really entertaining ways. It's unabashedly gonzo in style, and is quite liberal (but highly tongue-in-cheek) with its fanservice.

If you like breasts and disemboweling angels with giant demons made of your own hair, then it's absolutely for you.

This link should tell you more, if you're interested.
Link didn't work, but I have googled it, just didn't get the concept entirely.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #359
DracoDei
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

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Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
T minus a number is the amount of time remaining until the event occurs. There's no unit with the 50, so we can only guess how long it'll be. Hopefully not 50 centuries.
I assumed it was "50 disciplines". There are 102 he is going to be looking at total I believe.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:24 AM   Top  -  End  -  #360
Morph Bark
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Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

T - 0.

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