Heroes of the Fall OOC 2

[TechnOkami]

Originally Posted by TheDarkDM

Huh, stumbled on something cool.

Blade, remind you of anything?

Spoiler

Welcome, my Son. Welcome, to the Machine.

[HalfTangible]

Originally Posted by The Succubus

I love Ouran's ascenion quest and Rose's dialogue with Jongo.

Really? =/ I honestly didn't like it. It took forever and it felt like I was writing crap the whole time.

Originally Posted by TheDarkDM

Huh, stumbled on something cool.

Blade, remind you of anything?

Spoiler

*coughBasilicacough*

Also: went back and found Ouran's original character sheet with Google

Spoiler

Originally Posted by HalfTangible

Name: Ouran, the Changer, the Masked One, He who weaves shape and shifts existence

Domain: Change

Abilities: World Alteration, Polymorphy

Themes: Shapeshifter; trickster berserker; What would happen if Tzeentch and Saulanna Ricyana Rockblossom got together and had a baby?

Description: Ouran's memories of his life began as the villain in a story of the dangers of pride: a wizard's apprentice dared to try and create new life, to rise and challenge the gods themselves. Ouran had been given numerous potions to try and create new life, but as the rituals and elixirs became more complex and powerful, Ouran did as well. Whether through fate or through chance, Ouran gained enough intellect and strength to fight his way free. The master paid for his student's hubris with his life, at the hands of the very beast she sought to change and control. As her master died, the apprentice swore to avenge him, and poured herself into new studies to kill the beast she had wrought.

As Ouran ran, he found himself hunted constantly by man and beast alike, seeing him as nothing more than a monster that needed to be slain. His form would not stop shifting, and so he was forced to change how he behaved, fought and even thought every step of his journey. At the end, he found himself beset by the wizard's apprentice. The wizard blasted Ouran with her arcane might, and he fell to the Sea of Jongo. In her arrogance, the apprentice believed the creature dead.

Perhaps this is where his tale would have ended, had it not been for a chance encounter. A Jongoscion was nearby in the form of a dolphin, fighting for her life against a large squid. When Ouran entered the sea, he joined the battle and helped her drive the creature back. Perhaps fascinated by his shifting form, or perhaps believeing him another of her kind, she took him to shore and, as thanks for saving her life, taught Ouran how to maintain his forms. He then hunted down the wizard, engaged her in one final, titanic battle for supremacy, and slayed her.

At that moment, where the wizard finally lay dead, the Band of Chaos came to Ouran. Even the artifact's creator, the whimsical Jongo, cannot explain everything the Band does. This was one such event. Ouran, the little shapechanging raccoon monstrosity, was empowered by the band of chaos and ascended to godhood.

No one will ever understand how or why, but the results are clear enough: Ouran became the god of change - the shapeshifting trickster, the Changer, the Masked One, He who weaves shape and shifts existence. Always he would bear the dark mask of the raccoon, but all else - from his ears to his tail to the very world around him - would be his to shift and weave as he desired.

[Tychris1]

Well, I liked it as well. But you know what they say, you are your own worst critic.

[HalfTangible]

Originally Posted by Tychris1

Well, I liked it as well. But you know what they say, you are your own worst critic.

Things like Countdown to Final Crisis, One More Day, Sultry Teenage Super Foxes and the Transformers movies say otherwise

[Bryn]

I've finished reading the IC thread (and both OOC threads)! Tell's first posts will spawn in the next few days, but thermodynamics, relativity, electrodynamics and optics need to be done first.

Originally Posted by Demidos

Also, Bryn, is the use of "rapists" (the word) okay by you? I just included it because I feel it adds alot of weight to the point Vanara is attempting to make. I dont mind taking it out, but I just wasnt clear if it was the use of the word that bothered you, or its inclusion in the story, or something else?

Just to TLDR, I dont mind taking it out if it bugs you.

I don't mind this inclusion - my discomfort is with certain ways of dealing with rape as an event in the story. A character briefly mentioning rapists in a list is fine. But huge thanks for considering this!

And, thanks DarkDM/Raz for the warning about the Uluuvatar/Elana sequence. I did go ahead and read it, but knowing to some extent what sort of thing was coming helped.

Anyway, it looks like the game isn't going back to such territory.

Unrelated: I have a question about IC directions!

Spoiler

OOC, we're defining compass directions based on the square map. However, nobody in-game would have seen that map. How do the various people of the Disk define directions?

Do they use plane polar coordinates? I'm guessing not... It looks like most people are probably unaware of the shape of the Disk, and inertial forces if it's spinning are likely too small to detect*. So only people who fly, or travel large distances and make maps of the whole Disk, would be able to do this, and it might not make navigation easier unless the Disk has a radial magnetic field/magical direction-finding system.

Do they use the sun? I'm not sure if the sun orbits the Disk or if the Disk orbits the sun, but some combinations of orbit and spin axis would case the sun to move across the sky in a constant direction, and this could be defined as East/West (allowing the map directions to be used in-setting, which is nice and convenient).

Alternatively, is there a uniform magnetic field [or magical equivalent] across the Disk? We could have magnetic compasses [or magical equivalents] to be used to define North/South, again allowing the map directions to be used in-setting.

*For some maths that likely does not apply: the Disk is 10⁵ km across, so the maximum centrifugal acceleration at the very edge of the disk is just a=(5·10⁴ km)·ω². If we take ω=2π day^-1 - that's assuming the disk rotates as fast as Earth does - then this gives a=0.26 ms^-2, which is noticeable but not huge: it's as if gravity is pointing about 1.5° away from directly downwards, so you'd have to build sloping tables. But again, discussion of inertial forces and magnetic fields assume the Disk behaves [approximately] according to classical physics with the same symmetries and maybe some of the same fields as our spacetime, which is probably a silly assumption in this setting...

[Tectonic Robot]

Originally Posted by HalfTangible

Things like Countdown to Final Crisis, One More Day, Sultry Teenage Super Foxes and the Transformers movies say otherwise

...Sultry Teenage Super Foxes?

Originally Posted by Bryn

I've finished reading the IC thread (and both OOC threads)! Tell's first posts will spawn in the next few days, but thermodynamics, relativity, electrodynamics and optics need to be done first.


I don't mind this inclusion - my discomfort is with certain ways of dealing with rape as an event in the story. A character briefly mentioning rapists in a list is fine. But huge thanks for considering this!

And, thanks DarkDM/Raz for the warning about the Uluuvatar/Elana sequence. I did go ahead and read it, but knowing to some extent what sort of thing was coming helped.

Anyway, it looks like the game isn't going back to such territory.

Unrelated: I have a question about IC directions!

Spoiler

OOC, we're defining compass directions based on the square map. However, nobody in-game would have seen that map. How do the various people of the Disk define directions?

Do they use plane polar coordinates? I'm guessing not... It looks like most people are probably unaware of the shape of the Disk, and inertial forces if it's spinning are likely too small to detect*. So only people who fly, or travel large distances and make maps of the whole Disk, would be able to do this, and it might not make navigation easier unless the Disk has a radial magnetic field/magical direction-finding system.

Do they use the sun? I'm not sure if the sun orbits the Disk or if the Disk orbits the sun, but some combinations of orbit and spin axis would case the sun to move across the sky in a constant direction, and this could be defined as East/West (allowing the map directions to be used in-setting, which is nice and convenient).

Alternatively, is there a uniform magnetic field [or magical equivalent] across the Disk? We could have magnetic compasses [or magical equivalents] to be used to define North/South, again allowing the map directions to be used in-setting.

*For some maths that likely does not apply: the Disk is 10⁵ km across, so the maximum centrifugal acceleration at the very edge of the disk is just a=(5·10⁴ km)·ω². If we take ω=2π day^-1 - that's assuming the disk rotates as fast as Earth does - then this gives a=0.26 ms^-2, which is noticeable but not huge: it's as if gravity is pointing about 1.5° away from directly downwards, so you'd have to build sloping tables. But again, discussion of inertial forces and magnetic fields assume the Disk behaves [approximately] according to classical physics with the same symmetries and maybe some of the same fields as our spacetime, which is probably a silly assumption in this setting...

You read everything?

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

Alternately: You, ma'am, are a gentlewomen and a scholar.

[Raz_Fox]

Originally Posted by TheDarkDM

Forgive me, but I don't understand how the presence of a shadow archetype suddenly renders your character pointless.

Excuse me, but you don't see how introducing the anthropomorphic personification of a concept that is central to a character and then upstaging them with said a.p. isn't disheartening? Especially after they were passed over for having dominion over that concept, and instead given one that wasn't central to the character? Melos seems less of a shadow archetype and more, "I'm straight-up better at what your character does."

If you had given Fayruz, say, Community as a domain instead of Healing, and then later introduced the anthropomorphic personification of healing who could wave away injuries that Fayruz couldn't, I would be furious with you, especially as the unavoidable suspicion would be that you may have avoided giving Fayruz the Healing domain just because you really wanted to use the Healer as a part of your plan.

I normally wouldn't be getting upset - goodness knows that being the ST is a hard burden, and you can't please everyone - but between the two of us, we've been giving Kasanip pretty raw deals throughout this whole game. Were I in her place, I might have rage-quit already.

The problem, of course, is that I have no idea what to do. Retconning it away sets a very, very bad precedent. Telling Kasanip to just roll with the upstaging is rude. I get that you're planning for the long term, setting up foes that the players will really get a challenge out of beating, but overstating their strength demoralizes as many players as it energizes. All I know right now is that being snarky back at Kasanip because she's upset by yet another twist that leaves her up a creek is not the way to handle things.q

[BladeofObliviom]

Originally Posted by TheDarkDM

Huh, stumbled on something cool.

Blade, remind you of anything?

Spoiler

Well. Looks like Nova got her hands on the Basilica. Or something.

[Tychris1]

Erm, I think every god (Atleast, all the original gods) in the IC has seen the map because it was our mission to go down there in the first place and maps of the Disk were abundant on the White City as far as I can tell. As for our mortal followers, i'm not all to sure. I know that Contragh drew up a duplicate from memory (As he studied it intensely for the purposes of conquering the disk).

[HalfTangible]

Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot

...Sultry Teenage Super Foxes?

Let's just say it's one of the reasons why "Brodski, you're not the smartest" is one of the lyrics in Linkara's theme song.

[Gengy]

Originally Posted by Bryn

Spoiler

OOC, we're defining compass directions based on the square map. However, nobody in-game would have seen that map. How do the various people of the Disk define directions?

Do they use plane polar coordinates? I'm guessing not... It looks like most people are probably unaware of the shape of the Disk, and inertial forces if it's spinning are likely too small to detect*. So only people who fly, or travel large distances and make maps of the whole Disk, would be able to do this, and it might not make navigation easier unless the Disk has a radial magnetic field/magical direction-finding system.

Do they use the sun? I'm not sure if the sun orbits the Disk or if the Disk orbits the sun, but some combinations of orbit and spin axis would case the sun to move across the sky in a constant direction, and this could be defined as East/West (allowing the map directions to be used in-setting, which is nice and convenient).

Alternatively, is there a uniform magnetic field [or magical equivalent] across the Disk? We could have magnetic compasses [or magical equivalents] to be used to define North/South, again allowing the map directions to be used in-setting.

*For some maths that likely does not apply: the Disk is 10⁵ km across, so the maximum centrifugal acceleration at the very edge of the disk is just a=(5·10⁴ km)·ω². If we take ω=2π day^-1 - that's assuming the disk rotates as fast as Earth does - then this gives a=0.26 ms^-2, which is noticeable but not huge: it's as if gravity is pointing about 1.5° away from directly downwards, so you'd have to build sloping tables. But again, discussion of inertial forces and magnetic fields assume the Disk behaves [approximately] according to classical physics with the same symmetries and maybe some of the same fields as our spacetime, which is probably a silly assumption in this setting...

Ok. Really science-y there, but the short answer?

Plot.

We know north is north because Plot.

The sun rises, the sun sets; I've always viewed it as sort of literally rising up and over the disk. Pretty sure that someone has called the sun - in game - the Eye of Baz'Auran.

I would say that, because of the flatness of the Disk, there are no time zones.

You just get the sun rising for dawn. Then it's over the middle of the Disk at noon. And it sets at dusk.

Dark's call on that one.



And to add my voice to the whole "Melos" thing... It looked an awful lot to me like Melos was one of the first Spirits of Music. So, Raz, help me out here... didn't Fayruz and Sonata both learn Music from Spirits in the White City?

I don't know the direction Dark is taking things, but I think a reasonable compromise here is that Melos was perhaps a wayward Spirit of Music that was either banished or just... wandered off, because music can't really be contained.

Does it diminish Sonata's character if there is someone who also knows Music well or better then her? Some. I won't deny that.

But from an outside perspective, depending on how Kasa wants to treat this, this could be an opportunity for Sonata to pick up the actual Music domain by learning and surpassing Melos.

Just some thoughts for Kasa!

[shorewood]

As it turns out Hollywood already has a soundtrack for the Sonata vs Melos battle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfHBPusZg6E

[The Succubus]

Originally Posted by Gengy

And to add my voice to the whole "Melos" thing... It looked an awful lot to me like Melos was one of the first Spirits of Music. So, Raz, help me out here... didn't Fayruz and Sonata both learn Music from Spirits in the White City?

I don't know the direction Dark is taking things, but I think a reasonable compromise here is that Melos was perhaps a wayward Spirit of Music that was either banished or just... wandered off, because music can't really be contained.

Does it diminish Sonata's character if there is someone who also knows Music well or better then her? Some. I won't deny that.

But from an outside perspective, depending on how Kasa wants to treat this, this could be an opportunity for Sonata to pick up the actual Music domain by learning and surpassing Melos.

Just some thoughts for Kasa!

Even Khalen and Jongo mucked around with a spirit of Music at one point so its not unreasonable. Also seconding the "Music" domain idea as well.

But I'm sure I speak for everyone in this thread that I don't want my favourite PbP game destroyed because of drama.

I like Raz Fox.
I like Dark.
I like Kasanip.

I really hope the three of you can come to an understanding. and eventually kiss and make out at the end.

[Bryn]

Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot

You read everything?

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

Alternately: You, ma'am, are a gentlewomen and a scholar.

Um thanks! But this is the best-written PbP I've read: reading it was fun. Huge 'well done' to you and everyone else writing it! (More specifically... no that would go on way too long!)

Directions

Spoiler

Originally Posted by Tychris1

Erm, I think every god (Atleast, all the original gods) in the IC has seen the map because it was our mission to go down there in the first place and maps of the Disk were abundant on the White City as far as I can tell. As for our mortal followers, i'm not all to sure. I know that Contragh drew up a duplicate from memory (As he studied it intensely for the purposes of conquering the disk).

Good point, I didn't really consider that the orientation of the square map could be a convention in the maps of the White City. I guess it's like the standard North-up layout we use on a lot of map projections now (though not the Dymaxion map!)

Originally Posted by Gengy

Ok. Really science-y there,

my i'm-a-physics-student bias is showing

Originally Posted by Gengy

Plot.

We know north is north because Plot.

The sun rises, the sun sets; I've always viewed it as sort of literally rising up and over the disk. Pretty sure that someone has called the sun - in game - the Eye of Baz'Auran.

I would say that, because of the flatness of the Disk, there are no time zones.

You just get the sun rising for dawn. Then it's over the middle of the Disk at noon. And it sets at dusk.

Dark's call on that one.

OK, fair enough! This question is mostly because a few times I wanted to describe directions for Tell's tiny corner of the Disk (her people have never met the gods) and I was wondering whether to use 'hubwards'/'rimwards'/'spinwards'/'antispinwards', NESW or something else. (The characters will navigate by volcano, for the most part, but I'd like to be able to say 'the storms come from such-and-such direction' to fit into the wider setting)

The note about time zones is definitely true, regardless of what sort of strange orbits are going on!

I realise this is the second or third time I've taken a flimsy excuse to go 'look at me, I know some physics and maths! yayyy and stuff' and it's not really adding much. I'll stop doing that now

I'm thinking about where to put Tell and her people on the map. The story calls for a plinean eruption, and it would be quite nice if the eruption column could be seen by the gods (no expectation that they respond!) which means placing it fairly near the other civilisations, but not so near that the 'island of birds' concept becomes implausible. Would anyone be interested in having their people interact with unusual storms, poor summers due to an ash haze in the sky, or, eventually, (probably) an expanding but peaceful seafaring civilisation? There's way too much going on for them to grow in isolation.

Rambling

Spoiler

I think that Tell, when she comes to interact with the other gods, is (at least at first) going to see herself as more spokesperson for her civilisation than its ruler/independent divine actor.

My original plans to develop her as a messenger for the gods seem like they won't be all that useful now - pretty much everyone has an evocative and theme-reflecting way to pass a message to any other god, and introducing a messenger PC into things will slow them down rather than speed than up.

I'm still not sure whether to fall on the side of the volcano spirits of the island being literally volcanoes, or spirits who control the volcanoes and manifest in a smaller form to interact with mortals (like the Mother at the Olm)

[Tychris1]

Well, Fex is currently dealing with storms (Ala random evil powerful villains wiping out scouts with blizzards, and a few lesser but still dangerous storms), soot and ash are not foreign to them (From their own forges and a bit of the Forgeborn creeping in slowly), and more civilizations is always a good thing for them. So it'd just be an abnormal influx of what they are accustomed to. If you don't mind Zombies, Ghosts, and blood thirsty warlords shambling about then i'd be more then happy to let your islands interact with Fex. Plus there are already atleast 4 divine sparks either inside/heading that way so the more the merrier.

[Grimsage Matt]

On the whole deriction thing, heres how Torvaag looks at it.

"There are only three directions. Up, Down and Over There. Why only those three? The boss was too bloody cheap and didn't spring for more. Heck, I'm pretty sure he cut corners on Up and Down....."



Torvaag, he might have read a bit too much "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy". Admitidly, that was the only thing that got approved on his petty cash requests

[TheDarkDM]

Originally Posted by Gengy

And to add my voice to the whole "Melos" thing... It looked an awful lot to me like Melos was one of the first Spirits of Music. So, Raz, help me out here... didn't Fayruz and Sonata both learn Music from Spirits in the White City?

I don't know the direction Dark is taking things, but I think a reasonable compromise here is that Melos was perhaps a wayward Spirit of Music that was either banished or just... wandered off, because music can't really be contained.

Does it diminish Sonata's character if there is someone who also knows Music well or better then her? Some. I won't deny that.

But from an outside perspective, depending on how Kasa wants to treat this, this could be an opportunity for Sonata to pick up the actual Music domain by learning and surpassing Melos.

Just some thoughts for Kasa!

This is pretty much exactly what is going on here. Raz, please don't mistake my question for snark - I am having a legitimately hard time seeing how Melos diminishes Sonata. Of course, Kasa thinks so, so it is an issue we should address, but to me it's like saying Moriarty undermines Holmes, or Saruman undermines Gandalf. It's true they share similar powersets, but they use them in entirely different ways. Add to that the fact that Melos lacks a Spark, and I hope you can see where my confusion is coming from.

To expand even further on my thinking, I'd like to explain why Sonata lost. From a story perspective, it was because she unwittingly accepted the challenge of an entity that uses music almost exclusively to cause suffering and destruction, an entity that is older than her and had the advantage of being able to prepare for their meeting. From a meta perspective, though, this also gives Sonata an antagonist she can face on equal footing, rather than a mismatch like, say, Kraken. It gives me the opportunity to shine the central plot spotlight on her as she goes to help Melos open his door, as well as an opportunity to start revealing things that have been hinted at since the game started.

Now, after exchanging PM's I can see where Kasa is coming from. It had not occurred to me that she felt she'd been put in similar situations in other games, and knowing that I can see how frustrating it must be. But Melos was introduced almost exclusively as a stepping stone for Sonata and Fayruz to become more powerful, and a stepping stone for Sonata especially to have her own nemesis.

[Gengy]

Originally Posted by TheDarkDM

From a meta perspective, though, this also gives Sonata an antagonist she can face on equal footing, rather than a mismatch like, say, Kraken.

...why does that statement make me slightly afraid for Jongo's life? Dark? Dark?

Why are you smiling!? Stooooooooop. It's creeeping me oooout.

RAAAAZZZ. Dark's being mean

[Gengy]

Forgive the double post. I felt this was important.

Originally Posted by Bryn

I realise this is the second or third time I've taken a flimsy excuse to go 'look at me, I know some physics and maths! yayyy and stuff' and it's not really adding much. I'll stop doing that now

I'm thinking about where to put Tell and her people on the map. The story calls for a plinean eruption, and it would be quite nice if the eruption column could be seen by the gods (no expectation that they respond!) which means placing it fairly near the other civilisations, but not so near that the 'island of birds' concept becomes implausible. Would anyone be interested in having their people interact with unusual storms, poor summers due to an ash haze in the sky, or, eventually, (probably) an expanding but peaceful seafaring civilisation? There's way too much going on for them to grow in isolation.

Rambling

Spoiler

I think that Tell, when she comes to interact with the other gods, is (at least at first) going to see herself as more spokesperson for her civilisation than its ruler/independent divine actor.

My original plans to develop her as a messenger for the gods seem like they won't be all that useful now - pretty much everyone has an evocative and theme-reflecting way to pass a message to any other god, and introducing a messenger PC into things will slow them down rather than speed than up.

I'm still not sure whether to fall on the side of the volcano spirits of the island being literally volcanoes, or spirits who control the volcanoes and manifest in a smaller form to interact with mortals (like the Mother at the Olm)

First:

Don't stop. The more you question our reality, the more we are forced to face the question.

In other words... we have to think. And thinking is *good* for writing.

I said "Plot" last time, because attempting to alter the compass directions now would be silly... but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense that not every civilization feels that North is the same "north" as the gods might think it.

It's easy to think that the map creates north, south, east, and west, because well... it does.

But that explanation is lazy writing. And part of why I love this game is because it gives me an outlet to keep writing and improve.

So.

The more physics and reality questions you come up with, the more we are forced to come up with answers better then: "It's magic."

Now, the answers may still end up being "It's magic." but they will hopefully have much better descriptions for just HOW that magic works.


As to where you want to be?

Well, click on my signature to see The Map. Find a spot that works for you, and *don't* be afraid to use an unclaimed part of the ocean to create a smaller island nation.

My personal suggestion is there is a small chain of volcano islands in the ocean to the west (see how easy that is?) of Ates. But you can come up with whatever!

Remember. Plot trumps almost all.

I say almost because, well.

Dark trumps Plot.

[Bryn]

Thanks, Gengy! (Like, again, because you seem to be made of really sensible advice or something.)

I think I may wait a little bit before finalising Tell's location. If I put up a few posts of content, that gives more hooks for people to say 'I say! My civilisation could, without a doubt, interact most fruitfully with these people. Let us invite them for tea at the first convenience!' without the barrier of distance.

[HalfTangible]

Couldn't we just say "this way is north because the sun rises from the east?"

[Bryn]

That was the second idea. It would mean the Disk isn't spinning like a CD (otherwise East would move across the horizon) and probably not spinning at all. (You could have the Disk spinning on an axis within the Disk itself - sort of like a coin spinning on a table - with the sun effectively still, which would also create that appearance). But there's no reason to have the Disk steadily spin like a CD (just because Discworld does it, doesn't mean we need to!).

A spinning Disk would be relevant as far as developing storms go (but wait! storms are created by magical creatures or based on the advice of Jongo!) and would perhaps create stronger currents flowing out from the centre. So if the Disk isn't spinning, I guess that means we shouldn't have large, naturally forming storms.

[Grimsage Matt]

Torvaags thoughts on the movments of the world.

"Now, some of them worlds, which I tried to get the boss to model this on, are more realistic. Heck, the damn weather is according to some numbers he got some kid he calls 'Jongo' to think up. And I've looked over those damn nummbers. They make as much sense as one of those nutbars from The Dimension of Nothing is Real. Storms get randomly generated, then randomly sent off in random directions. Leave sense at the gates, welcome to reality kidos."

[Kasanip]

I appreciate thoughts of Gengy, Raz_Fox, The_Succubus, and TheDarkDM.

I wanted to write this post, because I think that most difficult is situation of misunderstanding. I think maybe it wasn't shown my feeling very much in OOC. So, I want to communicate my feeling, to show my perspective. I thought very carefully, and to write this kind of thing, it takes me a long time. So I hope it can be thought, it isn't [angry] feeling.

Spoiler

While all of the gods started at the beginning as children with Baz'Auran, when they ascended to godhood they surpassed what they were in the White City. My understanding of the Fall was that they changed from just being concepts, into being living entity (compare that the spirits that carried them to safety couldn't exist in the [world] (disk).

And then the end of their [Ascension] is when they can reconcile and surpass that [Concept] and [Living]. In this way they become Deities, and some of them, of [abstract concepts], are personifications of these things.

The concept of my character from the beginning of the game was [Music]. I tried very hard in the Ascension quest to write Song, Music, as being the central concept. In Sonata's fall, she lost her voice. She gave the useless flute to Renard, and only after she had given up who she was (became Fox Princess), she realized what treasures it was.

Sonata went on a journey to regain her voice and self, tricked the dragon princesses and rejected their family of wealth and power for her own identity, and sang to remind the Dragon King of his duty too.

Sonata received [Rain] as her domain, which surprised me.
I worked very hard then, to work so that I could show the Domain [Music], and claim that domain.

Sonata's songs, Renard's lyrics and poems, creating the Hymmnoi who are the song of [Ar Maen], which is the Divine Song, that Sonata made of the White City and the Disk.
There is another character who already was established to use music theme, and that is Fayruz, who is the harpist. And so it only seemed correct for me that, to get Domain [Music], I wanted to work with Raz_Fox, so that I didn't offend his concept, and so that they could together weave the harmonious song. This idea, in April, was to use a ceremony together to make a song that was the perfection, of White City on the Disk, and create the Divine Instruments, the Flute and Harp for the twins.

Sonata tamed the Lightning Wolf- since I was too slow to get airship, or to arrive at The Olm when others had meeting. The Lightning Wolf, to be the personification of Lightning, it seemed appropriate to expand such a [Rain] theme as well.
When I arrived at The Olm, it was ready to coordinate with Raz_Fox, to make the happy meeting of the twins again (the first Sonata could meet of her family again too).
Then Sonata was waiting at The Olm (teaching Music and Song to a Raz_Fox's Exarch).
Suddenly Uluuvatar plot happened.
So Sonata went to save Fayruz, and I wrote a song that was everything I could try to write. I wrote for longer than any post I can make.

It's very difficult for me to write and make the translation of song lyrics. [Rhythm and rhyme] is absolute different in English.
After Uluuvatar though, Fayruz was in bad situation, and Raz_Fox wanted to write for Exarch and recovery. So, to try to advance this kind of help with Sonata, and to do a [human story] to remind of [trickster] concept and Foxes, and to [foreshadow] Sonata needs to be responsible to her Hymmnoi and Walasye and foxes. Renard is such a character too, to remind of [trickster].

This was good, because I was burned out from to always write song lyrics and poetry for this game, so to write a little human and not music was good.

But then after Raz_Fox finished his story for Fayruz, the dragon came to The Olm to speak to Fayruz.
So I waited.
But it's October. I was waiting since April to do this ceremony, to secure this [Domain: Music]. It's important because Sonata, who gave away her flute at the Fall, would be in this way having it returned by the gift that was given of another. Such a meaning was to help [Treasure] theme as well.

I divided to write 2 things, at a later time when Sonata returned to Ecchr (because, to be honest, to wait since April to do more, it is too long to do nothing.).
Next Melos to cause trouble, and I was interested because it is a good time for Sonata to become more involved in the plot (she has only met Llassar and Fayruz and Khalen).

So, as soon as Raz_Fox finishes to talk to the Dragon, and it seems like we can start the ceremony to get [Music Domain], the Melos enemy turns out to be the [Personification of Song].

Here is how it seems for me.
Yes, from a story narrative I can understand the reasoning of TheDarkDM, to introduce a villain who is powerful must establish a threat.

About such a thing, it always happens to me.

My character in Heroes of Myth game was stabbed in the back with no chance to avoid, and waited for another character to rescue.

My character in Heroes of the Saga game was killed [offscreen] to establish another villain.

My character in this game lost with no chance to the personification of song that I have tried to establish her as this entire game.

About narrative: Yes. Sonata agreed to go along with the duel. It was a [yes or no] question. If it was said [no] I wouldn't be helping the narrative of the story! So I only could choose [yes]. But it was asked in OOC too, if this was a challenge and to politely give me some information how many major acts I should be prepared to spend to help Sonata to win, or how I could contribute.

Because Sonata winning a music battle against a trickster villain could also have established her as the music deity. And even if it is [stalemate], it would show the power of the enemy.
But, Sonata lost completely.

To a narrative, she can get better. She could learn from this failure and to grow somehow (I don't know how such a [training] could happen. Some ideas of Gengy or TheDarkDM are such a general idea, but in narrative I don't know how).
Actually I tried this a little in my post, that Melos who sang the First Song, now Sonata has heard the first song and can master this unknown song in the future. But then TheDarkDM said in OOC that no, I can't. He didn't sing the song, he is the personification of song.

I have read that now it is ok, Sonata can [become more powerful] or [learning and surpassing Melos]. Somehow Sonata can become the personification of song instead of Melos.

You are correct, this is true of the narrative.

What cannot happen now, is that I cannot say that, from the time of March to October, all of the time that I tried and wrote with hard effort for song lyrics and poetry, all of that is meaningless.

I cannot take [Domain: Music] during the ceremony with Fayruz now. In narrative it doesn't make sense. Because to fight Melos happen after.

I have to write for [ OO months] more to establish my character's music domain.

It is possible that it could happen. It is maybe possible that I can do that.

But at this time, I have no morale to write it. Already I was burned out one time to try and write lyrics and poems all the time.

I worked so hard to establish this theme, and every time I feel I have justified to achieve it, or that the situation became a good narrative time to take it, I can't.

I cannot offer a way to [fix] this situation. I wish I could offer such a way. But I have no ideas. I don't know how. I understand how [narrative] works for the story. I even can agree that I like the idea of enemy for sonata to fight. Actually that is a mixed feeling, because I was happy to be involved in the plot of the story.


I hope it can be seen that I am not trying to ask TheDarkDM to change the fight. That is too late.

But I don't have any confidence that I can write at the level required for this thread, to write more song lyrics and poetry that will exceed everything that I have written already, to beat such an enemy. In that way, probably it was a very terrible mistake for me to choose to try [Music] character.

[TheDarkDM]

Thanks for taking the time to express all that, Kasa. I have a few points though that I think might alleviate some of your dissatisfaction.

The first, and most important of these, is that I would never stop you from taking the Music Domain. You've more than earned it, and as soon as you care to claim it it's yours. Now DarkDM, you might say, how is this possible with Melos running around? Well, Melos may be the First Song, but for reasons that will become clear he is not of the Disk. Also, while I continue to fail in fully expressing this, he is not the personification of all song, just the First Song. True, he is the wellspring from which music emerged, but it is not a part of him. He can command it as a father might command a child, but it is only natural for the child to eventually surpass the parent. Therefore, Sonata can absolutely become the Disk's personification of music, and shepherd it towards this ascension thanks to her Spark.

And now I seem to have bundled all my points into that one paragraph, so...let me know what you think.

Also, Succubus, did you get my PM?

*edit*

Originally Posted by Gengy

...why does that statement make me slightly afraid for Jongo's life? Dark? Dark?

Why are you smiling!? Stooooooooop. It's creeeping me oooout.

RAAAAZZZ. Dark's being mean

I will point out that I've hinted in game to the way Kraken might be defeated without undue violence.

[HalfTangible]

... so does Ouran not gain Acts/Ceremonies until next turn (mechanically speaking) or... I have an epilogue i wanna type up, but other than that his quest is done =/

[BladeofObliviom]

Originally Posted by TheDarkDM

I will point out that I've hinted in game to the way Kraken might be defeated without undue violence.

Ditto.

[The Succubus]

I did indeed Dark. I'm not sure when I'll get around to hosting this *EXCITING NEW GAME FOR HotF FANS* - I'm currently working on a NaNoWriMo project that threatens to gobble all my time for the next month but I'll try and put together some basic framework for it in my free time. =D

[Bryn]

I'm working on a WIP setting document for Tell's island. I've enabled comments in GDocs, which are welcome if anyone is interested.

summary/comments/plans

Spoiler

Current backstory for the place is that a group of spirits fled the White City for unspecified reasons in the early days of the Disk (I'm sort of thinking of the scholars who left Oxford to found the University Cambridge, but the details have been left vague for now). They stayed underwater for a while, but wanting to see the sky, grew themselves up into volcanoes.

The volcanoes are now home to a great variety of villages and birds, some of which have been described in the document above. So far got five or six out of a hundred volcanoes; there are caves decorated with whale-bones, a village on stilts built to escape vicious ground-based spirits (I was thinking of a plume of carbon dioxide here, but they could as easily be genuine spirits), an immortal ruler who's secretly many people, parliaments of owls and colourful beetles... but I haven't got on to the flightless birds, or the Eye at sea who is the focus of the planned ascension quest.

I also need to play up the influence of wind on the island, if that is to be Tell's domain. I've got a wind shadow creating a desert, and a growing kite-based communication, but there's a lot more that I could do (although at this tech level I can't go for Nausicaä-style gliders and windmills unless Tell invents them).

I've put in a Cultist of Het and a Jongoscion, is that OK Succubus/Gengy*? They will likely not play a role in Tell's ascension quest, but it should set up ways for Jongo and Khalen-Het to get involved in this area if we decide to do that in the future. I took the Jongoscion's name from the list of sample Jongoscion names in Gengy's writeup, but it may already be in use in which case I'll happily change it.

Other potential links to the gods, apart from the 'oh my, there's an eruption column!' aspect, could be that...

• Torvaag might have known the volcano spirits in ancient times - it would be really cool to have a visit, perhaps passing through to visit an old friend on the way to someplace else, if you're up for that Grimsage Matt
• Refugees from Brymhide Isle could potential play a role in the ascension quest (which will involve a spirit abandoning its duty to defend a people who are under threat and travelling by sea) depending where the island ends up, assuming that's an OK use for them, The Snark
• I'd love to have some sort of link to the Fayheran, or the Walasye/foxes/Madako/Hymmnoi, but it's not clear how that could be so (and the Fayheran have enough to be dealing with already!)
• Rather later on, but I'd love for the wind goddess's people to fly using gliders like the Valley of the Wind in Nausicaä and the Air Nomads in AtlA. Tell isn't an inventor, but maybe Haramhold cold introduce these things, or perhaps train an inventor-y Exarch who comes back to build gliders?

Tychris1, I'm a bit hesitant to set up near Fex, because it seems that Contragh'd just walk in and crush everybody under a big pile of undead, and in general just upstage everything with the huge-nation business. Similarly, direct contact with Nieve would seem like a bad idea. Tell won't have the family defence, and there's really nothing to distinguish her people in the eyes of a conqueror. Contact should probably come later on, when they've grown into a more powerful civ...

*not a ship



Regarding Sonata, 'Melos is the first song' hasn't been established in-game, so would it be possible to go with kasanip's original interpretation without retcon?

[Tychris1]

Well, there are a few things that would keep the island safe:

1) Lack of boats. Contragh is winning a land war, dedicating all his resources into infantry, cavalry, and machines of war. Not to mention there is another land based threat not too far away. And Contragh could be the most persuasive person in the world, but trying to convince Revenants to walk from one beach, to the bottom of the ocean, all the way to another beach, is a hopeless attempt.

2) He probably could (And would, if it's the most reasonable option) just snowball a bunch of troops and drop them off en masse. But he doesn't want to expend soldiers on areas that could be taken peacefully (Cause he needs all the bodies he can get). If he walked up and said "Hey, join my empire!" and Tell said "No" then the next question would be "Would you like to set up trade and hire my soldiers as mercenaries?" He doesn't need a volcanoe, but boats and gliders could be useful. If the answer was "No, F- off" then there would be a major influx of axe to the face.

3) Jongo and Co. Currently his morality is being kept in check via morality pet Jongo and the rest of his family. He won't be commiting huge unreasonable atrocities while they're around, and would be sure that they never learn about it. Slaughtering friendly/defenseless islanders (In comparison) with ties to his family won't be winning him points from the rest of them.

Of course, I understand the hesitation of setting up shop next to this worlds version of Mordor meets Hades meets The Empire. Twas just a suggestion.