Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

[Kaun]

Also explain encryption/decryption to me?

All i seem to be able to find is that its a simple action.

If you can point me to the rules it would be much appreciated.

[Si-on]

I'm just going to jump in here with a question of my own.
I will be running an SR4 game very soon and one of my players will be playing a pixie. He wants to use the shapechange spell to change into a human. The critters section of the core book describes critters as "All non-human creatures." Would it be overpowered to let him turn into a human?

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Kaun

Also explain encryption/decryption to me?

Sure thing.

Basically, encryption renders data inaccessible to others, unless they either have the encryption key, or run said data through Decrypt. Encryption can protect files, communication, and even nodes. Encryption includes encoding, ciphers, and other forms of cryptography, but it's hardly perfect.

At best, encryption is only going to someone down if he sticks to his guns. The rating of your program determines how hard it is for the Decrypt program to break through. The higher the rating, the better the encryption.

So, for instance, let's say I'm making a call to Steve, and I don't want folks listening in. I can use my rating 3 Encrypt program to encrypt the link, at which point I choose a "key" so Steve can decrypt it. I choose "F. Scott Fitzgerald," and since Steve knows this key in advance, he enters it in and we proceed with our call.

Joe wants to listen in, but doesn't know the key... but he does have Decrypt, rated at 2. He rolls Electronic Warfare + Decrypt, and needs to get six successes (my program rating x2) before he can start listening in. If it takes him enough turns to get those successes, then he might miss out on vital parts of the conversation.

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

I'll post some entertaining stories tomorrow.

Okay, it's tomorrow, let's have some stories.

• As I said earlier, a Bust-A-Move equipped with a Chameleon Coating makes for a great infiltrator; I refer to such as "Transmorphing Space Ninjas." In one instance, we needed to ensure that an observatory's telescope was being cleaned; we sent in one with a ketchup packet, and the Transmorphing Space Ninja smeared some on the lens.
• My Hacker/Rigger made excellent use of the aforementioned Renraku Stormcloud. I'd bought pretty much every sensor I could think of for it, and thanks to the chameleon coating, it made for a valuable spying tool. It also enabled me to maintain a signal in otherwise-dead Matrix areas.
• The Steel L*nx loaded up with the Ingram White Knight proved to be exceptionally-deadly when the group was facing against a group of ghouls in a small hallway. It was very amusing when, at the start of the fight, the street sam's player cracked his knuckles and said, "I'll handle this," only for me to get a 50 on my Initiative and steamroll the ghouls.

[Science Officer]

Originally Posted by Kaun

Also explain encryption/decryption to me?

All i seem to be able to find is that its a simple action.

If you can point me to the rules it would be much appreciated.

Bottom of page 225 of the core book, seems to be.

Originally Posted by Si-on

I'm just going to jump in here with a question of my own.
I will be running an SR4 game very soon and one of my players will be playing a pixie. He wants to use the shapechange spell to change into a human. The critters section of the core book describes critters as "All non-human creatures." Would it be overpowered to let him turn into a human?

I can't see it being terribly over-powered. But it sort of defeats the purpose of the spell and of playing a pixie character.

[Reluctance]

Originally Posted by Si-on

I'm just going to jump in here with a question of my own.
I will be running an SR4 game very soon and one of my players will be playing a pixie. He wants to use the shapechange spell to change into a human. The critters section of the core book describes critters as "All non-human creatures." Would it be overpowered to let him turn into a human?

There's weird wording about how magicians can still cast spells, but otherwise can't perform tasks requiring speech. (Can nonmagicians speak?) Past that, I'd worry that allowing it to turn one into an arbitrary (meta)human shape would make it too effective as a disguise spell.

A more limited version, based on (Critter) Form and where each individual human is a spell of its own, wouldn't be a problem. You can even knock a point or two off the drain code. Sustaining penalties (even if it's just shelling out the cash for a focus) and vulnerabilities to wards are drawbacks enough.

[Kaun]

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

Joe wants to listen in, but doesn't know the key... but he does have Decrypt, rated at 2. He rolls Electronic Warfare + Decrypt, and needs to get six successes (my program rating x2) before he can start listening in. If it takes him enough turns to get those successes, then he might miss out on vital parts of the conversation.

Thanks Count, i understand the theory i just couldn't find the crunch anywhere and i had the technomancer wanting to encrypt and stash some pay data he had just got his hands on because his sleuth sprite had triggered a couple of agents.

Originally Posted by Science Officer

Bottom of page 225 of the core book, seems to be.

I swear i was all over this section but i will do a double take tonight, cheers man!

[Poil]

I've got a question about dual wielding. If you hold a gun in each hand and fire them both simultaneously at a single target, does that count as one or two attacks for the defense penalty the target receives?

[big teej]

okay, I've got a new one.....

I've read the core book essentially cover to cover..... i have not seen anything that confirms or denies the ability of upgrading existing augmetics (i.e., upgrade rank 2 dermal plating to rank 3, wired reflexes 1 to 2 or 3, etc.)

halp?

[The Random NPC]

Originally Posted by big teej

okay, I've got a new one.....

I've read the core book essentially cover to cover..... i have not seen anything that confirms or denies the ability of upgrading existing augmetics (i.e., upgrade rank 2 dermal plating to rank 3, wired reflexes 1 to 2 or 3, etc.)

halp?

IIRC you can't really upgrade augmetics, but you can sell any alphaware and worse to fund your upgrade to deltaware but only for cyber.

[big teej]

Originally Posted by The Random NPC

IIRC you can't really upgrade augmetics, but you can sell any alphaware and worse to fund your upgrade to deltaware but only for cyber.

then..... why, for example, would you ever purchase wired reflexes 1 or 2? since you can't wire em faster later, why not just wait and wait until you can afford the max rating of any given thing?

to quote one of my players.... some augmetics make sense as upgradable (dermal plating for example) but others do seem rather permanent (bonelacing for example)



>.>
<.<
*might smell a houserule*

[The Random NPC]

You wouldn't ever get some of the middle ware, but others are just too useful to pass up.

[Kaun]

Originally Posted by big teej

then..... why, for example, would you ever purchase wired reflexes 1 or 2? since you can't wire em faster later, why not just wait and wait until you can afford the max rating of any given thing?

Fluff wise that's sorta like saying "why would you buy a cheap economy car? why not just wait and save up for a Lamborghini."

Well some times you don't have the cash for all the best toys but you still need to get the job done.

Crunch wise tho as a character generally you buy as top quality as you can afford (either cash or essence wise).

Also when it comes down to it, regardless of whether you upgrade or replace won't it still require some fairly invasive surgery? + the re-sell on the old ware will offset the cost of the new.

I mean realistically its not like upgrading would ever be as simple as paying the cost difference between the ware you have and the ware you want.

[TheOOB]

You need 2-3 initiative passes to survive combat even at lower levels of play/ Honestly, 4IP is nice, but not really necessary, the more IP you have, the more important it is to raise your base abilities than to get another IP(That is, if you have 3 IP already, you'll likely get more benefit raising your offensive/defensive abilities than getting another IP.)

Of course, riggers can get up to 5 IP, but that's another situation entirely.

[Kaun]

Next question;

Drones and power usage.

Q: Does it go into detail anywhere about how long a drone can operate before it needs to refuel/recharge?

I know in most cases you could hand wave this and just say the drones recharge in the drone racks between runs or what ever but in the case i am faced with the rigger has his drones running for extended periods of time (days) performing surveillance.

If there is no official rule for it then any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Dimestoretiamat]

Originally Posted by Kaun

Next question;

Drones and power usage.

Q: Does it go into detail anywhere about how long a drone can operate before it needs to refuel/recharge?

I know in most cases you could hand wave this and just say the drones recharge in the drone racks between runs or what ever but in the case i am faced with the rigger has his drones running for extended periods of time (days) performing surveillance.

If there is no official rule for it then any suggestions would be appreciated.

DM judgement really. I think 2 days is a good rule of thumb for all drones provided they arent doing anything crazy like driving at high speeds or constantly remaining in combat.

[big teej]

I've got another one......


how many weapons are runners allowed to carry? (not legally, mechanically)

as it stands our group has sort of come to an agreement of

2 'long' weapons (assault rifles, shotguns, sniper rifles, etc.)

1 'sub' weapon (sub machinegun, machine pistol)

and currently up in the air between "2 pistols" and "as many pistols as you can fit onto your body"


but that's hardly set in stone or anything, cause we have no idea...

[DodgerH2O]

Originally Posted by TheOOB

You need 2-3 initiative passes to survive combat even at lower levels of play/ Honestly, 4IP is nice, but not really necessary, the more IP you have, the more important it is to raise your base abilities than to get another IP(That is, if you have 3 IP already, you'll likely get more benefit raising your offensive/defensive abilities than getting another IP.)

Of course, riggers can get up to 5 IP, but that's another situation entirely.

Just chipping in, as a longtime SR GM, that the person running the game has a lot to do with what one 'needs' as a character. I've run plenty of games where only the street sam and/or adept have more than one IP and you know what? Everyone survived just fine. Well I should say that any lack of survival was due to bad decisions on the players' parts, rather than poor combat optimization.

Goes without saying, but Shadowrun is many different games, not just one. It's all about who's playing.

EDIT: In that vein...

Originally Posted by big teej

how many weapons are runners allowed to carry? (not legally, mechanically)

I've never cared for runners who are walking arsenals, but if they can reasonably carry something I'll let them. Thing is, someone walking around with a pair of shotguns and a sniper rifle strapped to their back is going to attract a lot of unwanted attention. Pistols are kinda tricky, but there's not much advantage in most situations to having more than a few of them. Ditto most melee or even throwing weapons. SR doesn't encourage encumbrance micromanagement via mechanics the same way many other games do, and I've had GMs who are fine with trolls wandering around downtown seattle with rocket launchers or gyro-mounted HMGs...

So I guess my answer is "Ask your GM"

[big teej]

Originally Posted by DodgerH2O

Just chipping in, as a longtime SR GM, that the person running the game has a lot to do with what one 'needs' as a character. I've run plenty of games where only the street sam and/or adept have more than one IP and you know what? Everyone survived just fine. Well I should say that any lack of survival was due to bad decisions on the players' parts, rather than poor combat optimization.

Goes without saying, but Shadowrun is many different games, not just one. It's all about who's playing.

EDIT: In that vein...


I've never cared for runners who are walking arsenals, but if they can reasonably carry something I'll let them. Thing is, someone walking around with a pair of shotguns and a sniper rifle strapped to their back is going to attract a lot of unwanted attention. Pistols are kinda tricky, but there's not much advantage in most situations to having more than a few of them. Ditto most melee or even throwing weapons. SR doesn't encourage encumbrance micromanagement via mechanics the same way many other games do, and I've had GMs who are fine with trolls wandering around downtown seattle with rocket launchers or gyro-mounted HMGs...

So I guess my answer is "Ask your GM"

to clarify slightly, we're making a distinction between 'out and about' and 'on a run'

anything you can't reasonably hide (the cut off I think would be a single smg, provided it was a smaller one) is going to attract alot of unwanted attention.

on a run however, you're already breaking the law, and planning to get shot at, might as well come packed to the teeth.



and, much to my chagrine, *I* am going to be the GM (provided I can't foist it on one of my players so I'm not pulling double duty behind the screen).

[TheOOB]

Originally Posted by big teej

I've got another one......


how many weapons are runners allowed to carry? (not legally, mechanically)

as it stands our group has sort of come to an agreement of

2 'long' weapons (assault rifles, shotguns, sniper rifles, etc.)

1 'sub' weapon (sub machinegun, machine pistol)

and currently up in the air between "2 pistols" and "as many pistols as you can fit onto your body"


but that's hardly set in stone or anything, cause we have no idea...

As long as they can tell you how they are carrying their guns. You could reasonably carry a dozen+ pistols under a long coat without detection so long as no one bothers to frisk you, and a Troll could carry a couple of the groups assault weapons.

Honestly though, most the runners I've seen carry a backpack or a duffel bag, and carry their illegal gear in there until it's time to go on the run.

I think the real question is how many grenades can you carry before an errant spark will blow you up.

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Kaun

Does it go into detail anywhere about how long a drone can operate before it needs to refuel/recharge?

Depends on the drone.

Arsenal suggests an "average" operation time of six hours of normal work for most vehicles and drones, adjusted where it would be logical to say otherwise. They can be modified further with improved fuel economy, additional fuel tanks/batteries, or even hooked up to a GridGuide system.

Originally Posted by Kaun

I know in most cases you could hand wave this and just say the drones recharge in the drone racks between runs or what ever but in the case i am faced with the rigger has his drones running for extended periods of time (days) performing surveillance.

Indeed. I'd recommend cycling the drones, such that for every one in operation, one's preparing to replace it, and one's charging.

[Kaun]

Thanks people's!

[big teej]

Originally Posted by TheOOB

As long as they can tell you how they are carrying their guns. You could reasonably carry a dozen+ pistols under a long coat without detection so long as no one bothers to frisk you, and a Troll could carry a couple of the groups assault weapons.

Honestly though, most the runners I've seen carry a backpack or a duffel bag, and carry their illegal gear in there until it's time to go on the run.

I think the real question is how many grenades can you carry before an errant spark will blow you up.

somehow I doubt we'll have a troll

that said, I see your point..... and now I'm worried about the grenade thing, I think my runner is carrying 30-40 grenades....

which prompts a desire to play him as a combination of The Demoman and Heavy Weapons Guy...

[The Random NPC]

Since this has become a general thread, what are the important skills for drone riggers? Some places say you don't need cybercombat, others say its the most important. They just seem to need such a large variety of skills that I'm running into problems getting even one rank in them all.

[DigoDragon]

Originally Posted by Kaun

i'm really interested to hear what others have done with drones?

My Technomancer once bought a manservant drone and rebuilt it as her "Stunt double". Useful when you need to be at two places at once and it was passable for looks with insufficient lighting. Made a good stand-in driver while the party rigger was snuggly hidden in his cocoon.

Not as useful when employed by the street sam as an improvised club.

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by The Random NPC

Since this has become a general thread, what are the important skills for drone riggers?

1. The relevant Pilot and Mechanic skills, for piloting and fixing your drones.
2. Armorer, for modifying the drones' weapons, armor, et cetera.
3. The Cracking and Electronics skill groups will have their uses; the rigger isn't that different from the hacker.
4. Gunnery. Definitely get Gunnery.

[Andrewmoreton]

Shadowrun pay
.
I use the car theft principle stealing a low end sports car will without a good fencing roll net 15000 nuyen. A shadowrun team can steal cars very easily, the risk is somewhat low even if they get caught they are looking at very little jail time.
I submit that if you can make more money stealing cars than you can from shooting your way into a corporate research facility past 7 ninja's and a combat mage you are going to steal the cars. No shadowrun game I have played or GM'd failed to pay more than car theft.
Also lifestyles , if you are taking the risks a shadowrunner takes you are going to want at least a medium lifestyle thats 60,000 nuyen a year minimum plus expenses, savings and upgrades. Depending on how many jobs you think a team will take in a year you can use this as a base.

(Most of my games ended up as high end games paying a LOT more than this minimum, I also extensively used cash for Karma and Karma for Cash to balance the needs of mages and street samurai)

[TheOOB]

Originally Posted by Andrewmoreton

Shadowrun pay
.
I use the car theft principle stealing a low end sports car will without a good fencing roll net 15000 nuyen. A shadowrun team can steal cars very easily, the risk is somewhat low even if they get caught they are looking at very little jail time.
I submit that if you can make more money stealing cars than you can from shooting your way into a corporate research facility past 7 ninja's and a combat mage you are going to steal the cars. No shadowrun game I have played or GM'd failed to pay more than car theft.
Also lifestyles , if you are taking the risks a shadowrunner takes you are going to want at least a medium lifestyle thats 60,000 nuyen a year minimum plus expenses, savings and upgrades. Depending on how many jobs you think a team will take in a year you can use this as a base.

(Most of my games ended up as high end games paying a LOT more than this minimum, I also extensively used cash for Karma and Karma for Cash to balance the needs of mages and street samurai)

This pretty much sums up my view of payment. Car theft very rarely involves gunfights and personal vendettas(that security guard you killed had a family you know), and can be quite profitable.

Shadowrunners are not just thieves or thugs. They are extraordinary individuals with great skill that are either unable to, or unwilling to use their abilities legitimately. They get paid well for the kinds of things that they do.

[The Random NPC]

Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

1. The relevant Pilot and Mechanic skills, for piloting and fixing your drones.
2. Armorer, for modifying the drones' weapons, armor, et cetera.
3. The Cracking and Electronics skill groups will have their uses; the rigger isn't that different from the hacker.
4. Gunnery. Definitely get Gunnery.

Thanks, I guess I'm just spreading myself too thin.

Originally Posted by Andrewmoreton

Shadowrun pay
.
I use the car theft principle stealing a low end sports car will without a good fencing roll net 15000 nuyen. A shadowrun team can steal cars very easily, the risk is somewhat low even if they get caught they are looking at very little jail time.
I submit that if you can make more money stealing cars than you can from shooting your way into a corporate research facility past 7 ninja's and a combat mage you are going to steal the cars. No shadowrun game I have played or GM'd failed to pay more than car theft.
Also lifestyles , if you are taking the risks a shadowrunner takes you are going to want at least a medium lifestyle thats 60,000 nuyen a year minimum plus expenses, savings and upgrades. Depending on how many jobs you think a team will take in a year you can use this as a base.

(Most of my games ended up as high end games paying a LOT more than this minimum, I also extensively used cash for Karma and Karma for Cash to balance the needs of mages and street samurai)

Originally Posted by TheOOB

This pretty much sums up my view of payment. Car theft very rarely involves gunfights and personal vendettas(that security guard you killed had a family you know), and can be quite profitable.

Shadowrunners are not just thieves or thugs. They are extraordinary individuals with great skill that are either unable to, or unwilling to use their abilities legitimately. They get paid well for the kinds of things that they do.

I crunched some numbers and I think the average car thief will be making about 3000 nuyen a day minimum. That isn't taking in to account supplies, and also limiting yourself to stealing one car a day. Of course if you consider that vehicle theft rates in the future are the same as current day, that one thief is responsible for 1.5% of all stolen cars a year, but you are a shadowrunner.

[Kaun]

Next question;

Q: Is there a mathematical formula to determine the time it takes for any Shadowrun thread to dissolve into discussion about stealing cars vs run pay offs?

Originally Posted by Andrewmoreton

A shadowrun team can steal cars very easily, the risk is somewhat low even if they get caught they are looking at very little jail time.

ehh that's not entirely true.

They will also have any of their legal SIN's tagged with a criminal rap sheet which can make things difficult.

If they don't have a SIN and are using a fake SIN you have to hope it stands up to scrutinization because if it doesn't they will also be charged with fraud and stuck with with a criminal SIN. (or possible just shot and dumped depending on where their caught because with out a SIN their not "real" citizens anyway.)

They will also get charged for possession of any illegal equipment they have on them.

Possibly have any known residences searched and be charged for what ever illegal equipment they find there.

Depending on the size of the operation there is the possibility of words like "organised crime" springing up which can increase the jail time.

+ if they have been stealing cars for long enough its possible some of the insurance agency corps are going to lean on the legal system to get the jail time increased because these people have been costing them money.

TLDR: The stealing car idea isn't as simple as it is often made out to be and at the end of the day it would probably make for a fairly boring game.

[TheCountAlucard]

Originally Posted by Kaun

Next question;

Q: Is there a mathematical formula to determine the time it takes for any Shadowrun thread to dissolve into discussion about stealing cars vs run pay offs?

It generally gets mentioned within five posts of someone asking how much to pay the runners.