If people are unsatisfied with the current game, then that game is now a chore, and shouldn't be continued. I hate giving up on games and would indeed prefer a 'fix', but sometimes you have to let go. I'm not going to pass judgment on this one, but I don't know if I can do two playgrounds at once, and statistically it is very hard to revive a dying game.
Yes you are correct. But if it happens every time, as I am led to believe with what happened to previous incarnations of this game as well. It is one thing to discontinue a game, but if it happens more than once, then maybe we should try to look into another direction for a solution. But if I am mistaken here, do not mind this. Carry on!
I fully intended to continue that last game and a few others had declared their intent as well, but everyone stopped posting as soon as the new one appeared and my last post never received a single reply.
So I fear starting a new one might by extension spell doom for this one. Not necessarily, but it might.
I fully intended to continue that last game and a few others had declared their intent as well, but everyone stopped posting as soon as the new one appeared and my last post never received a single reply.
So I fear starting a new one might by extension spell doom for this one. Not necessarily, but it might.
Well if we decide to take Jade's suggestion in starting at mid-December than I think we might be able to see how this one is currently doing by then. If it's still holding up well then I think it might be fine while Playground 5 is going; if it isn't then... Well it might be best to start over with Playground 5. Either way it's still around 3 months away so I'm not completely worried about it.
Sucks to hear about Playground 3 though; I thought everyone was hitting their stride last time I checked it.
__________________
Sharkguard avatar done by Darth Raynn!
Well, I've been an unofficial mod in these games for some time, and have played in all of them, so I figure I should throw some opinions out.
I don't think we should start a new game until at least December, for reasons that have already been gone over. Also, I'm pretty sure the reason for Playground 1's success was more or less a combination of two aforementioned factors: Lots of good players who are interested in telling a story rather than 'winning' (note that I am not accusing anybody of anything; All of our games have had both good and bad players.) The other factor I speak of is the also-aforementioned open-endedness.
As a rule of thumb, it can be seen that more world-building in the pre-recruitment step seems to inevitably push player interest away. The simple fact is that, no matter how cool a setting might seem to one player, other people might well find it unexciting. Also, since we kinda advertise this as "the game you build yourself," mandating things prior to player input is kinda missing the point, which I'd imagine pushes people away.
I think a lot of it is in the beginning, while Bastion was the center, playground 1 felt like you could have picked any point on the globe and start roleplaying there. Indeed, I remember one player wanted to play a werewolf terrorizing a nearby town (though he left the game after lacking real motivation to interact with other players.) What I mean is, once Taelarys was more or less defined, story elements ground to a halt. Meanwhile in Playground 1 new countries with new political agendas were popping up every day. The problem there is that in fact, it's very hard to rp in these games when your character isn't with the rest, so ultimately everyone either found themselves back in Bastion, or stranded alone. And as players we remember that and haven't really pushed the boundaries since (Playground 2 has a similar example with your first character there Jade, you switching to Rayle had the unfortunate side effect of leaving some of our best on the other side of the kingdom without much in the form of motivation.)
This means that once Taelar, or Wayfarer's point in this case has really been fleshed out there's not much for new players to expand upon. So we're left with either worldbuilding for the sake of worldbuilding at the expense of character play, or character involvement at the expense of worldbuilding. Oddly, I think this game has tremendous potential to walk that gap, because of the open seas aspect. Get enough players on a ship and you can bring the game anywhere.
As for vampires, the rule was put into effect third game, because if I recall the vampire character we had in 2 was absolutely atrocious. Though personally I agree with Vondoom on this. A vampire done well is no worse than an elf or dwarf played well. On the other side of things, a fun part of Playground 1 was seeing people play as anthropomorphous animals and demons as opposed to slightly more generic fantasy races. The only two elven characters we had were Maranis and Elizabeth. Both of whom were fantastic, but it says something when we also had plenty of talking goats and cats.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Professor Terry Pratchett
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
@Xon, do I has to roll anything for that action of mine? Methinks it's agility that's involved. I have a +2, no wait...argh dammit I haven't updated my advantages. So that's a +1 for agility.
Thinking on what Xon said, I think it might be a good idea to limit the number of areas outside the game's main continent to avoid having many areas where people could find themselves without much to do on their own. Instead I think the main focus of the next game should just be on the main continent to allow room for development while not having people all over the world without much to do. (in theory anyway)
And I agree with Xon about this game. The open seas aspect could easily allow for people to get around and explore as a way of worldbuilding without severely limiting player interaction.
As an addon to what Xon said, I do enjoy playing non-human characters such as Drallic and Alf. (my character from the last game who was made entirely of spiders. Kinda wish I did a better job on him) I also had a character idea I could have played for the third game had I stayed with it. However, uh... It wasn't the best of ideas to say the least. "Epic research fail" does not even begin to describe it
EDIT: I forgot to mention, perhaps I can suggest we go with Playground 3's system, however just having Common and Uncommon rarities and making sure that they are ONLY for when players cannot agree on how a situation should play out; all other cases rolls should not be needed to allow a more freeform structure.
__________________
Sharkguard avatar done by Darth Raynn!
On systems: I believe Nef's proposal for rejuvenating the PG1 rules was that Common Advantages could be taken whenever (and of course, schools of magic would be available as advantages again) whereas any advantage gained by a vote of the other players (as a reward for hard work on the game, or finishing a neat character arc or something) would be a special advantage that has its own rules - sort of like the rule text on a Magic the Gathering card.
Spoiler
Example 1: The three starting advantages that Locke currently possesses are Enchantment Magic 1, Profession: Bard 1, and Charisma 1. All of these were gained in the standard way and are Common in scope, adding a +1 when appropriate. However, she finishes a long and compelling story arc involving skulking and stolen state secrets and high romance and everything that the game needed at the time, and as a result her player is nominated by another player to get a bonus advantage, and the other players agree. Locke's player decides that Locke learns Bardic Magic, a special advantage that lets her multiply her Enchantment Magic bonus by the number of people she's trying to use it on if she can use her Bard skills at the same time, effectively allowing her to charm an entire room of impressionable people at once.
Example 2: Gardus has been pursuing the vorpal blade Whackmaster for some time now, and after a climactic battle he has finally claimed it from Lord Angryface using the power of Character Development and Superior Upper Body Strength. As a result, the rest award him a bonus to use on the sword, which grants him no bonuses, but negates enemy toughness and armor bonuses and may even help him chop through obstacles - the Whackmaster stops for nothing.
Example 3: After sufficient time to recover, Lord Angryface begins to expand his power in the city once again, eventually completing a well-crafted and complicated plot to take over a tremendous number of businesses and indirectly control all of the gangs, one way or another. Unless 'proprietary,' Lord Angryface can claim that a given NPC is working for some someone who belongs to a hierarchy of people that is ultimately working for Lord Angryface.
You'll note that all three of these can, in the hands of an irresponsible player, be abused to hell and back. It's up to the players to call BS when Locke throws a party to try to enchant all the other PCs at once, or when Lord Angryface declares that every NPC in the city is working for him, or when Gardus declares that the vorpal powers of the sword let him drop a castle 'if he flails around in the basement long enough.' Obviously, this is something you need to avoid. And frankly, the one mod-lesson I didn't bring up before is that it is exhausting trying to be everyone's common sense and sense of decency. This game has always relied on the players to exercise good judgement.
So anyway, that's our take on a fancier PG1 rule set's basic mechanics.
On Geography: I don't remember the national issue being that big of a deal in PG1. Despite the number of nations, most of the PCs were in or around Bastion, and it never seemed to be a huge problem except for the werewolf guy. And truth be told, after months of world building we still had fewer than ten nations. We had that western empire, Bastion itself, Celan, Wraen, the Hefrizian Principalities, Vivexia, the Marches or whatever they were called, Trofuria, and the Brightcrest Ranges. Of those, actual gameplay only happened in the Marches, Vivexia, the Hefrizian Principalities, and Bastion. And of those, Hefriz and Vivexia were only visited as part of the same globetrotting adventure from Stray's crew, and the Marches only visited once. The Brightcrest Ranges, Wraen, and Trofuria were only seen in flashbacks.
__________________ "Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel."
- Mark Twain
"Life is too short for [manuals], but occasionally much too short without them."
- Randall Munroe, xkcd.com (paraphrased)
Amazing Zealot avatar by Elder Tsofu
Last edited by Jade_Tarem : 09-17-2012 at 08:13 PM.
On systems: I believe Nef's proposal for rejuvenating the PG1 rules was that Common Advantages could be taken whenever (and of course, schools of magic would be available as advantages again) whereas any advantage gained by a vote of the other players (as a reward for hard work on the game, or finishing a neat character arc or something) would be a special advantage that has its own rules - sort of like the rule text on a Magic the Gathering card.
Spoiler
Example 1: The three starting advantages that Locke currently possesses are Enchantment Magic 1, Profession: Bard 1, and Charisma 1. All of these were gained in the standard way and are Common in scope, adding a +1 when appropriate. However, she finishes a long and compelling story arc involving skulking and stolen state secrets and high romance and everything that the game needed at the time, and as a result her player is nominated by another player to get a bonus advantage, and the other players agree. Locke's player decides that Locke learns Bardic Magic, a special advantage that lets her multiply her Enchantment Magic bonus by the number of people she's trying to use it on if she can use her Bard skills at the same time, effectively allowing her to charm an entire room of impressionable people at once.
Example 2: Gardus has been pursuing the vorpal blade Whackmaster for some time now, and after a climactic battle he has finally claimed it from Lord Angryface using the power of Character Development and Superior Upper Body Strength. As a result, the rest award him a bonus to use on the sword, which grants him no bonuses, but negates enemy toughness and armor bonuses and may even help him chop through obstacles - the Whackmaster stops for nothing.
Example 3: After sufficient time to recover, Lord Angryface begins to expand his power in the city once again, eventually completing a well-crafted and complicated plot to take over a tremendous number of businesses and indirectly control all of the gangs, one way or another. Unless 'proprietary,' Lord Angryface can claim that a given NPC is working for some someone who belongs to a hierarchy of people that is ultimately working for Lord Angryface.
You'll note that all three of these can, in the hands of an irresponsible player, be abused to hell and back. It's up to the players to call BS when Locke throws a party to try to enchant all the other PCs at once, or when Lord Angryface declares that every NPC in the city is working for him, or when Gardus declares that the vorpal powers of the sword let him drop a castle 'if he flails around in the basement long enough.' Obviously, this is something you need to avoid. And frankly, the one mod-lesson I didn't bring up before is that it is exhausting trying to be everyone's common sense and sense of decency. This game has always relied on the players to exercise good judgement.
So anyway, that's our take on a fancier PG1 rule set's basic mechanics.
On Geography: I don't remember the national issue being that big of a deal in PG1. Despite the number of nations, most of the PCs were in or around Bastion, and it never seemed to be a huge problem except for the werewolf guy. And truth be told, after months of world building we still had fewer than ten nations. We had that western empire, Bastion itself, Celan, Wraen, the Hefrizian Principalities, Vivexia, the Marches or whatever they were called, Trofuria, and the Brightcrest Ranges. Of those, actual gameplay only happened in the Marches, Vivexia, the Hefrizian Principalities, and Bastion. And of those, Hefriz and Vivexia were only visited as part of the same globetrotting adventure from Stray's crew, and the Marches only visited once. The Brightcrest Ranges, Wraen, and Trofuria were only seen in flashbacks.
I think advantages based on merit quickly becomes very dangerous without an extremely mature player base.
As for the geography, what I meant was, it wasn't so much the fact that everything was in Bastion, but that it felt as if you could write your story anywhere. And as a result the players cared about expanding the world beyond Bastion.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Professor Terry Pratchett
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
On systems: I believe Nef's proposal for rejuvenating the PG1 rules was that Common Advantages could be taken whenever (and of course, schools of magic would be available as advantages again) whereas any advantage gained by a vote of the other players (as a reward for hard work on the game, or finishing a neat character arc or something) would be a special advantage that has its own rules - sort of like the rule text on a Magic the Gathering card.
Spoiler
Example 1: The three starting advantages that Locke currently possesses are Enchantment Magic 1, Profession: Bard 1, and Charisma 1. All of these were gained in the standard way and are Common in scope, adding a +1 when appropriate. However, she finishes a long and compelling story arc involving skulking and stolen state secrets and high romance and everything that the game needed at the time, and as a result her player is nominated by another player to get a bonus advantage, and the other players agree. Locke's player decides that Locke learns Bardic Magic, a special advantage that lets her multiply her Enchantment Magic bonus by the number of people she's trying to use it on if she can use her Bard skills at the same time, effectively allowing her to charm an entire room of impressionable people at once.
Example 2: Gardus has been pursuing the vorpal blade Whackmaster for some time now, and after a climactic battle he has finally claimed it from Lord Angryface using the power of Character Development and Superior Upper Body Strength. As a result, the rest award him a bonus to use on the sword, which grants him no bonuses, but negates enemy toughness and armor bonuses and may even help him chop through obstacles - the Whackmaster stops for nothing.
Example 3: After sufficient time to recover, Lord Angryface begins to expand his power in the city once again, eventually completing a well-crafted and complicated plot to take over a tremendous number of businesses and indirectly control all of the gangs, one way or another. Unless 'proprietary,' Lord Angryface can claim that a given NPC is working for some someone who belongs to a hierarchy of people that is ultimately working for Lord Angryface.
You'll note that all three of these can, in the hands of an irresponsible player, be abused to hell and back. It's up to the players to call BS when Locke throws a party to try to enchant all the other PCs at once, or when Lord Angryface declares that every NPC in the city is working for him, or when Gardus declares that the vorpal powers of the sword let him drop a castle 'if he flails around in the basement long enough.' Obviously, this is something you need to avoid. And frankly, the one mod-lesson I didn't bring up before is that it is exhausting trying to be everyone's common sense and sense of decency. This game has always relied on the players to exercise good judgement.
So anyway, that's our take on a fancier PG1 rule set's basic mechanics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xondoure
I think advantages based on merit quickly becomes very dangerous without an extremely mature player base.
Yeah I'm not too sure about it either. It feels like it could be very prone to bias from the moderators even if we have a very mature set of players. Hardly a bad idea but I don't see it working out in practice.
BTW Xon, I'm mostly waiting on Clive's results IC before making a post. I figure Drallic hasn't sensed or noticed anything until after Clive makes an action.
__________________
Sharkguard avatar done by Darth Raynn!
Yeah I'm not too sure about it either. It feels like it could be very prone to bias from the moderators even if we have a very mature set of players. Hardly a bad idea but I don't see it working out in practice.
BTW Xon, I'm mostly waiting on Clive's results IC before making a post. I figure Drallic hasn't sensed or noticed anything until after Clive makes an action.
Well, it seems any player could nominate, but yeah, I can see players newer to the game, or not as familiar with the main player base getting even more shafted and just general nastiness breaking out.
@Adventure: Yeah, don't worry more reactions coming up.
@Clive: I didn't ask for a roll because I wanted to see what you would do and judge success based off that (had you tried to shoot, then you would have rolled.) As it is now Jonathan has to roll (10 or higher for unfavorable circumstances to kill the attacker)
(1d10+3)[4]
Edit: So guess what happens now?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Professor Terry Pratchett
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
Great. Actually to get the rolls out of the way here's what I need from both of you: A combat roll, and a perception roll with your intelligence/cunning scores attached.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Professor Terry Pratchett
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
Great. Actually to get the rolls out of the way here's what I need from both of you: A combat roll, and a perception roll with your intelligence/cunning scores attached.
Quick question before I roll, does the Intelligence/Cunning bonuses apply to both rolls or just to one?
__________________
Sharkguard avatar done by Darth Raynn!
To be honest, if there was a problem with 'mod bias' I didn't hear of it. The biggest contention seems to be all those advantages DM had this time around (and never really used). The player group was mature enough to handle treating each others' advantages with respect in PG1, so if we can do that again and the mods come down hard on disruptive and rude players, there's no reason the PG1 rules won't work. And if the special advantages thing is still too scary, then there's no reason it has to remain.
By now it's probably obvious that I have a preference for at least trying this, but I'm curious about why several other players seem to prefer the PG3 rules - given that the "arms race" condition and several other side effects (and a lot more book keeping) players have mentioned as frustrating and unpleasant are introduced there. What's more, the PG3 rules for item, vehicle, locus, and companion rules had a number of flaws corrected(?) in 4.
I'm just wondering if the preference is merely due to greater familiarity with the Playground 3 set, is all.
__________________ "Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel."
- Mark Twain
"Life is too short for [manuals], but occasionally much too short without them."
- Randall Munroe, xkcd.com (paraphrased)
To be honest, if there was a problem with 'mod bias' I didn't hear of it. The biggest contention seems to be all those advantages DM had this time around (and never really used). The player group was mature enough to handle treating each others' advantages with respect in PG1, so if we can do that again and the mods come down hard on disruptive and rude players, there's no reason the PG1 rules won't work. And if the special advantages thing is still too scary, then there's no reason it has to remain.
By now it's probably obvious that I have a preference for at least trying this, but I'm curious about why several other players seem to prefer the PG3 rules - given that the "arms race" condition and several other side effects (and a lot more book keeping) players have mentioned as frustrating and unpleasant are introduced there. What's more, the PG3 rules for item, vehicle, locus, and companion rules had a number of flaws corrected(?) in 4.
I'm just wondering if the preference is merely due to greater familiarity with the Playground 3 set, is all.
I like 4's ruleset the most actually. And yeah, with a closed group of familiar players, the special advantages thing sounds interesting. Open board like these are (and should mostly be in my opinion) I'm not so sure.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Professor Terry Pratchett
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
Alright you passed the kicked out of the fight test! All I need now is your combat roll and perception check with cunning/intelligence on top.
Then here's how the fight's going to go: I'll post the zombies actions with a spoiler box. If the box has a kill you get to make a post killing the zombie, if it's a no kill you get to fight it off. High enough of a perception check and I'll tell you the trick to cancel the hoard before they overwhelm you. Otherwise your stuck with cryptic hints.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Professor Terry Pratchett
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
Alright. It's late, I will be tired, and I have to move into my dorm tomorrow, so let's keep this short and sweet, k? K.
-I do not want 1 person to have a bajillion advantages like before
-I like the Telarys setting, a lot
-I'm tired of the vampire grumpiness (seeing that the last vampire I created was a Dragonborn who spoke, dressed, and acted like a British Gentleman, denying at every corner that he was a Vampire, I could reasonably argue my case if I wanted to play him)
-I agree to the no supetmods/GM's, though I have mixed feelings on adventures (because I've been in successful ones)
-1 thing I liked about PG 3 from a character point was being proficient at a specific & focused thing, 'dunno how it would work w/ PG1 rules
-bloody hell I'm going to make a full boar lycanthrope for the PG games if it's the last thing I do
~and that's my opinionated semi-rant, g'night everyone~
Despite not being a fan of a general ban on vampires, TechnOkami, a 'Dragonborn vampire' seems a bit, well ... Skyrim. As an old White Wolf player, I recommend thinking of a character background and personality first before deciding on a 'gimmick', so to speak.
That said, I mostly kept referring to Playground 3 because it's the only one I am thoroughly familiar with and the system was fairly decent, some flaws aside that one could take measures to fix. Maybe they were already addressed with Playground 4, but I don't know that nearly as well. Would someone perhaps be so kind as to point out the key changes? On a quick read-over, I saw that a few new categories were added to advantages, at least, though I'm not so sure what ought to qualify as more rare than rare (one-use unique stuff aside).
Despite not being a fan of a general ban on vampires, TechnOkami, a 'Dragonborn vampire' seems a bit, well ... Skyrim. As an old White Wolf player, I recommend thinking of a character background and personality first before deciding on a 'gimmick', so to speak.
That said, I mostly kept referring to Playground 3 because it's the only one I am thoroughly familiar with and the system was fairly decent, some flaws aside that one could take measures to fix. Maybe they were already addressed with Playground 4, but I don't know that nearly as well. Would someone perhaps be so kind as to point out the key changes? On a quick read-over, I saw that a few new categories were added to advantages, at least, though I'm not so sure what ought to qualify as more rare than rare (one-use unique stuff aside).
Basically the further categories are for items and locus advantages (and followers) anything that can be removed from the player and thus rendered useless is boosted a rank. Anything that is stuck in one location gets two I believe. I'd have to double check the specifics, but that's the gist.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Professor Terry Pratchett
"It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
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Re: Playground 4 OOC
Rycon done by 
Galdr avatar done by 
Well what might the other Perception check been for then?
