Don't forget Grease. Completely useless in cRPGs, great in tabletop.
Everyone who makes such statements obviously hasn't played BG1. Or sucked at it (note: you can suck at playing BG and not noticing it, because the games are not very hard).
Grease, Color Spray and Sleep are BOMBS in BG1.
It has nothing to do with AD&D vs. D&D 3.5. Those spells were really good in AD&D.
Last edited by Zombimode : 07-13-2012 at 08:19 AM.
You can tell Solaufein to meet you outside the Underdark, I'm pretty sure.
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"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
As for Solaufein, I'm not sure how well-written he is but he'd suffer from the same problem as Imoen - he appears late in the game when you already have a complete party.
Imoen reenters the game right when Yoshimo leaves the party, so you don't have to make a spot for her. Unless you, for some odd reason, don't keep Yoshimo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morty
So if you wanted to recruit him, you'd probably have to leave one of your companions in the Underdark, unless the mod addresses it somehow.
Well, you can tell whoever you boot to meet you in the Copper Coronet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombimode
Everyone who makes such statements obviously hasn't played BG1. Or sucked at it (note: you can suck at playing BG and not noticing it, because the games are not very hard).
Grease, Color Spray and Sleep are BOMBS in BG1.
It has nothing to do with AD&D vs. D&D 3.5. Those spells were really good in AD&D.
Grease is good in tabletop because you can always put it at your opponents' feet. Also, you can cast it on slopes so your enemies slip and slide all the way down - in BG1&2, they just fall wherever they are with no sliding down hills. Also also, in a real-time cRPG, by the time you cast it and the projectile travels, your target has moved out of the area of effect (unless they're not moving, ie already attacking one of your party members, in which case you're also hitting said party member). You can hit archers and casters reliably, but I usually prefer to just have my melee rush archers and spam MM at casters to keep them from getting any spells off.
I do use Color Spray and Sleep to good effect, though. While I can. However, the only first level spell that really remains relevant beyond level 4 or so is Magic Missile - at that point, everything you're fighting has too many HD to be affected by anything else.
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Originally Posted by Recaiden
This is Demon King Mangosta talking. Of course he's harsh.
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Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost
Mango:you sick, twisted bastard <3
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Last edited by mangosta71 : 07-13-2012 at 09:07 AM.
Well, you can tell whoever you boot to meet you in the Copper Coronet.
You can't, no. Not in the Underdark. Unless you're past Chapter Five they have no means of leaving the Underdark alone and no guarantee of surviving the trip if they did.
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"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
I'd think they would magically return to Five Flagons Inn Copper Coronet, and wait for you there.
If you leave anyone in the Spellhold, they're stuck there. I think the same applies to the Underdark. However, Imoen can leave on her own and go to the Copper Coronet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangosta71
Imoen reenters the game right when Yoshimo leaves the party, so you don't have to make a spot for her. Unless you, for some odd reason, don't keep Yoshimo.
Well, I didn't keep Yoshimo in most of my playthroughs. In the one where I did keep him until the Spellhold, I was playing an evil bastard and I filled his spot with Sarevok.
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It has nothing to do with AD&D vs. D&D 3.5. Those spells were really good in AD&D.
Grease is nowhere near as good in AD&D as it is in 3.5. Make everyone flat-footed with no save?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morty
As for Solaufein, I'm not sure how well-written he is but he'd suffer from the same problem as Imoen - he appears late in the game when you already have a complete party. So if you wanted to recruit him, you'd probably have to leave one of your companions in the Underdark, unless the mod addresses it somehow.
The Solaufein mod is awful. I really hope they consider impleting him as an NPC, even if only through DLC.
Last edited by ThiagoMartell : 07-13-2012 at 11:24 AM.
The Solaufein mod is awful. I really hope they consider impleting him as an NPC, even if only through DLC.
There seem to be two seperate arguments on Solaufein:
1) Sol should be an NPC. That is to say, not - I repeat not - using the existing mod as anything beyond a reminder that the guy exists. He is an interesting character in the core game and could be expanded to true companion complexity without much difficulty.
2) Sol shows up late. This is a genuine concern. Imoen resurfaces late as well, but she's already an established party member at that time and her obvious replacement leaves at the same time she comes back. By the time you run into Sol, you've got a party and no slot will magically open up for him. The only character that shows up afterwards is Sarevok and he's ToB.
Although I like the idea, additional NPCs aren't really that much of a bonus in my book, not in this case. I'd much rather have that energy spent making all the existing allies better - more consistent personalities, more defined personalities, more numerous and more evenly spread banters, and more NPC rivalry/friendships (Jan and Minsc, Aerie and Minsc, Korgan and Aerie, Korgan and Mazzy, Mazzy and Valygar...). We've got so many more characters already than we can feasibly use in three full games. If you're going to remake them, I'd rather see more quality than more quantity.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
This is all BG2, anyway. It will take a while to come up.
More NPCs in BG1... I dunno, we have enough. They just need to be more fleshed out.
Very true. All my complaints about BG2 are doubly true for BG. If they're doing the trilogy approach (BG1, BG2, and ToB in one continuous game), I hope they use the BG1NPC mod for inspiration for the BG1 companions - especially Dynaheir, who, as I already said, was my LI of choice in BG1.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
If they're doing the trilogy approach (BG1, BG2, and ToB in one continuous game), I hope they use the BG1NPC mod for inspiration for the BG1 companions - especially Dynaheir, who, as I already said, was my LI of choice in BG1.
Well hey bloody ho. A bit of actual official news? I've been waiting for the vaguest hint of that. Thanks. So this is just the original BG? Why were they talking about doing a BG3 next, then?
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
Well hey bloody ho. A bit of actual official news? I've been waiting for the vaguest hint of that. Thanks. So this is just the original BG? Why were they talking about doing a BG3 next, then?
They'll release BG Enhanced Edition first. Then, after the game is released, they'll begin working on BG2 Enhanced Edition. They have officially said that though they want to work in BG3, they have no actual plans towards doing so at the moment.
They'll release BG Enhanced Edition first. Then, after the game is released, they'll begin working on BG2 Enhanced Edition. They have officially said that though they want to work in BG3, they have no actual plans towards doing so at the moment.
Where is that? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just really like to find where they've officially written any details at all.
That said, I'm a little bummed. BG1 isn't all that great a game on its own. They'd have to really work at it to make it shine as such. But it was absolutely brilliant as part of the Trilogy.
Also, why did they use Irenicus's lines for their initial teasers? What's the point if it's going to be another X months/years until we see the scarred elf in all his hammy glory?
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
Well, I didn't keep Yoshimo in most of my playthroughs. In the one where I did keep him until the Spellhold, I was playing an evil bastard and I filled his spot with Sarevok.
How did you fill Yoshi's spot with a character that doesn't appear until ToB?
If Yoshimo is in your party when you go to Spellhold, you have two options:
1) remain a man short until after you finish the Underdark
2) bring Imoen back into the group
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Originally Posted by Recaiden
This is Demon King Mangosta talking. Of course he's harsh.
Shouldn't Imoen, like, canonically be in the group? She is almost as important to the plot as you are.
From what I've heard, Imoen was supposed to die in Spellhold but, in playtesting, a lot of people were upset about that. So she ended up living on. Got a little role in ToB.
Where is that? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just really like to find where they've officially written any details at all.
That said, I'm a little bummed. BG1 isn't all that great a game on its own. They'd have to really work at it to make it shine as such. But it was absolutely brilliant as part of the Trilogy.
Also, why did they use Irenicus's lines for their initial teasers? What's the point if it's going to be another X months/years until we see the scarred elf in all his hammy glory?
I found it in information scattered across plenty of articles months ago. I googled what I could find and found a fewstill around.
From what I've heard, Imoen was supposed to die in Spellhold but, in playtesting, a lot of people were upset about that. So she ended up living on. Got a little role in ToB.
Which is a little funny, since from wht I've heard, she ended up as a recruitable NPC in BG1 for pretty much the same reason - the playtesters complained that you don't get a non-evil Thief until later in the game, forcing you to stick with Montaron for too long.
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Original plans aside, in the actual plot as it turned out, Imoen is the most important party-joinable character.
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"You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan
"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan
Yeah, Imoen is one of the great jokes on story-tellers. The original game had Montaron as the only thief for the first quarter/third of the game, until you find Coran. So they threw together another thief using an unused voiceset and tossed her in, with no time left to add any banter or relationships.
Then they were going to kill her off at Spellhold, which really makes since given the condition you find her in. But that raised such a stir that they let you keep her. Again, the decision was made too late to give her many interjections or banters.
Then ToB came around and they'd already gotten the message. Imoen not only didn't almost get killed, she was allowed to go through the maturation the main charcter did in BG, and given banters galore to make up for lost time. Unfortunately, a malformed trigger kept most of them from ever firing, still turning her into an anti-social mute.
It's hard to imagine playing without her, really. Not only is she one of the major focuses of SoA, not only is she practically all the thief you need, plus a handy mage to boot, she's adds a sense of sweetness and belonging that none of the other characters really manage and makes the game feel like more than just another string of bloody fights with an avatar of ham manipulating you from the shadows. I can play without Minsc (though it's really hard to do so), I can leave Jaheira in the dust, but I can not drop Imoen. Simple as that.
Speaking of the wonderful world of ham, have you seen anywhere whether they are re-recording any/all of the dialogue in the game? It seems like it'd be a dilemma between being nailed to those dialogue lines and either getting the band back together (although the big ones you'd need would be Keith Micheal Richardson, Jennifer Hale, Jim Cummings, and Melissa Disney) or recasting them. I'm very curious how they resolved that problem.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
Speaking of the wonderful world of ham, have you seen anywhere whether they are re-recording any/all of the dialogue in the game? It seems like it'd be a dilemma between being nailed to those dialogue lines and either getting the band back together (although the big ones you'd need would be Keith Micheal Richardson, Jennifer Hale, Jim Cummings, and Melissa Disney) or recasting them. I'm very curious how they resolved that problem.
...Aw damn, I just realized Polish Viconia (and Keldorn if the Enhanced Edition will be BG2 too) won't be re-recorded if this edition gets localized.
(And if they are... jimmies will be rustled)
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Speaking of the wonderful world of ham, have you seen anywhere whether they are re-recording any/all of the dialogue in the game? It seems like it'd be a dilemma between being nailed to those dialogue lines and either getting the band back together (although the big ones you'd need would be Keith Micheal Richardson, Jennifer Hale, Jim Cummings, and Melissa Disney) or recasting them. I'm very curious how they resolved that problem.
IIRC they're keeping most/all of the old dialogue as-is, and there has been some mention of getting some of old gang back to record some new lines. I suspect most new stuff will be from whatever new NPCs they add though.
I sincerely doubt there will be any major recasting going on, as I doubt it would achieve anything save irritating the fans.
string of bloody fights with an avatar of ham manipulating you from the shadows.
This is my favorite line of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Silver
IIRC they're keeping most/all of the old dialogue as-is, and there has been some mention of getting some of old gang back to record some new lines. I suspect most new stuff will be from whatever new NPCs they add though.
I sincerely doubt there will be any major recasting going on, as I doubt it would achieve anything save irritating the fans.
Hmm. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to give Imoen more lines and plot participation. And maybe foreshadow her status as a Bhaalspawn.
And yeah, if they give any of the established/popular NPC's new voices it is going to dissatisfy many of the old fans this project is meant for. I too doubt they'll do it. Minsc and Jaheira are hard to replace.
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