That Black Pits thing sounds lame to me, though. Really, getting a magic invitation/teleport scroll to some super-special Drow arena in...ooohh!...the Underdark, a place we have never seen before in a game, sounds like a mod done by a teenager. Still, there are professionals behind this, and I've played Icewind Dale with its silly expansions more than once, so it's not like this kind of uninspired background is a dealbreaker for me if the fights are fun.
Plus, there are some other new areas, so I'm not really complaining. Still, I would have hoped for something different.
Actually, the way the description was written, it sounded like it's an alternate mode, not a simple side quest. It sounded rather like one of those tacked-on multi-player modes, for people who want to enjoy the engine without the plot. The focus on being able to create an entire part of custom characters is my primary reason for thinking so.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
Actually, the way the description was written, it sounded like it's an alternate mode, not a simple side quest. It sounded rather like one of those tacked-on multi-player modes, for people who want to enjoy the engine without the plot. The focus on being able to create an entire part of custom characters is my primary reason for thinking so.
It specifically said it was a stand alone adventure if that's what you mean. I doubt you even can use your party from the actual game.
And now once more, functioning multiplayer alone makes it worth it. By the way, if anyone's up for some misadventures across the Sword Coast when it comes out, we could maybe do that. It'll be released right when I should by all means have a lot of free time for at least a few weeks, so if anyone's interested, I sure am.
YES I MEAN YES GOOD LORD
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As for the new content, I'm really quite interested in the NPCs. More fighter types are nice, given that it's BG1, although I question the viability of monks in BG1 unless the class is changed (no idea if they are even allowed to do that) or there are some items to help them out (expecting this).
Wild Mage is cool, too. I mean, the only non-evil mages are part of an NPC pair or, well, Xan, which I could never stomach for long. I've used Xzar for more than one good-aligned playthrough, and not only because I like what the NPC Project made of him and Monty.
Plus, wild magic. Can't wait to accidentally let a demon loose in the bandit camp or something like that.
I'm excited for the Wild Mage and the Monk, but honestly, a Blackguard?
Not excited at *all* for that one.
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That Black Pits thing sounds lame to me, though. Really, getting a magic invitation/teleport scroll to some super-special Drow arena in...ooohh!...the Underdark, a place we have never seen before in a game, sounds like a mod done by a teenager. Still, there are professionals behind this, and I've played Icewind Dale with its silly expansions more than once, so it's not like this kind of uninspired background is a dealbreaker for me if the fights are fun.
Plus, there are some other new areas, so I'm not really complaining. Still, I would have hoped for something different.
Eh, sounds like it'll be a good time for just smashing some heads, which I'm not against from time to time. I do hope that you can visit it with your normal party and that your NPCs have opinions about it. If not, well, eh. I'll play it a few times anyhow. Wonder if you can solo it?
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Lovely Thaxos, Elder Serpent avatar by... someone! I've forgotten in the years, sorry! Please, let me know so I can credit you!
Actually, the way the description was written, it sounded like it's an alternate mode, not a simple side quest. It sounded rather like one of those tacked-on multi-player modes, for people who want to enjoy the engine without the plot. The focus on being able to create an entire part of custom characters is my primary reason for thinking so.
You're right, I think.
I didn't pay much attention to the details, I guess.
After re-reading the description and especially looking at the screenshots, it might even allow PvP? That could be kind of nice. Although I would expect that to be announced somewhere.
Anyway, still not exactly the first thing on my wish list, but maybe a more interesting addition than I first thought.
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Originally Posted by arguskos
YES I MEAN YES GOOD LORD
I'm excited for the Wild Mage and the Monk, but honestly, a Blackguard?
Not excited at *all* for that one.
Well, he's the one I care for the least, and, really, there already are two very usable evil melee characters. But I don't particularly mind having a Blackguard. Kagain and Shar-Teel are fairly mundane characters, so it's a change of pace, which isn't bad in my book.
Going off the new guys' biographies, I'm definitely looking forward to the monk the most, reservations about the class' strength or not.
The Wild Mage girl, well, she could be a really nice character if they don't play up her tragic past and need to get her life fixed by Charname's love. (As we all know, Sexual Healing on endless repeat is the true BG2 soundtrack, and I very much don't need to see that in BG1. Not that I wouldn't like some shadows in a character's past, but stiff upper lip, please.)
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Eh, sounds like it'll be a good time for just smashing some heads, which I'm not against from time to time. I do hope that you can visit it with your normal party and that your NPCs have opinions about it. If not, well, eh. I'll play it a few times anyhow.
Sure, I'll give it a spin. When I said it looks lame to me I was mainly referring to the story blurb. I mean, really, if it's such a special place, why not give it, I don't know, a Planescape-like background, for example. There's enough interplanar traveling going on in the series and it would (probably) allow for more varied arenas. But no, it's the Underdark. Again.
I mean, I'll survive, but it still seems a bit uninspired.
Also, already looking forward to some multiplayer sessions, then.
Last edited by Johnny Blade : 07-26-2012 at 07:19 PM.
Reason: Thread moves faster than my brain and fingers.
So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?
The three new guys, of course.
I need to know if the old NPCs will have kits of their own before I make choices, though.
Probably playing an elf Stalker as the protagonist.
So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?
The three new guys, of course.
I need to know if the old NPCs will have kits of their own before I make choices, though.
Probably playing an elf Stalker as the protagonist.
If they implement dual-classing properly in EE, going Stalker >> Wizard would be tempting. It's the route I always wanted Valygar to take in BG2 (if his stats and the engine allowed it)
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"Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn!" said the cultist.
"Oh bother," said Pooh.
I might be interested in some multiplayer. And I'll definetly start a new singleplayer campaign if I buy the Enchanced Edition... possibly with that Lawful Evil/Lawful Neutral Fighter I've been planning.
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Has nobody noticed that the Blackguard has the surname 'Il-Khan'?
The Bhaalspawn ruling Saradush in Throne of Bhaal's surname is also Il-Khan, and is also a Half-Orc. I'm predicting family. He may be a Bhaalspawn himself (unlikely), or the brother of one.
Last edited by bluntpencil : 07-27-2012 at 02:59 AM.
If they implement dual-classing properly in EE, going Stalker >> Wizard would be tempting. It's the route I always wanted Valygar to take in BG2 (if his stats and the engine allowed it)
Isn't that a bit out of character for Valygar?
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Originally Posted by bluntpencil
Has nobody noticed that the Blackguard has the surname 'Il-Khan'?
The Bhaalspawn ruling Saradush in Throne of Bhaal's surname is also Il-Khan, and is also a Half-Orc. I'm predicting family. He may be a Bhaalspawn himself (unlikely), or the brother of one.
I thought about this, but I don't know if they are going to make any connections to Gromnir, since he is based on a real person and all.
So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?
An excuse to get my Fighting Furies back together? Yes please! :)
The first time I played BG1, I used an evil female PC with Jaheira, Shar-Teel, Imoen, Viconia and Edwin-with-a-Girdle-of-Gender. It was tremendous fun, especially since I was playing blind and had no idea that most of my team would be coming back in the second game. :)
But I might mix things up a bit with the Enhanced Edition. The creators have confirmed that Dorn can be romanced, and that's something I didn't get to do the first time around (because seriously, Anomen? NO.) So I could swap Shar-Teel out for him and have him be the token male in the group. Neera is another "maybe" depending on her alignment (Imoen's already my Token Bleeding Heart) and whether she can outperform Edwin. Doubt I'd have much use for Rasaad, though...
I wonder whether these NPCs will also be recurring in BG2:EE? Dorn having a connection to Gromnir doesn't make much sense unless you can actually take him to Saradush during ToB...
So... anyone have a take on who they'll be playing or their first party yet?
I'll definitely take Rasaad and Neera along with me.
Imoen will be there and do her usual dual-class routine or be turned into a bard, so the magic department is pretty much full, which restricts further options somewhat (no Minsc/Dynaheir, no Xzar/Monty).
But apart from that, I'll make up my mind about Charname and the rest of the party when I see the new kits and if some NPCs got kits in EE.
(EDIT: Or rather, if there are nice kits that fit some of the old NPCs. I assume editing this with Near Infinity will still be possible, although not being able to just make little changes like that with Shadow Keeper will feel odd.)
Ho annoying I find Dorn's high-rep feedback lines might play a role concerning his place in the group, too.
Last edited by Johnny Blade : 07-27-2012 at 06:27 AM.
Speaking of reputation, I would welcome it if it was easier to keep a neutral or low reputation. In BG2 at least, you need to flat-out ignore some quests and even then it's hard if you don't bring Viconia along. But I doubt it'll happen - it's the kind of feature they can't implement, I think.
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My FFRP characters. Avatar by Kid Kris. Sigatars by Gulaghar, Kid Kris, Zefir and billtodamax, respectively.
Speaking of reputation, I would welcome it if it was easier to keep a neutral or low reputation. In BG2 at least, you need to flat-out ignore some quests and even then it's hard if you don't bring Viconia along. But I doubt it'll happen - it's the kind of feature they can't implement, I think.
Actually, that was always something I appreciated about the BG series: there's no question that an evil/low reputation playthrough is more difficult (because you get less XP and can't use weapons like Carsomyr or Drizzt's +5 scimitar), but that was balanced by the fact that evil NPCs like Korgan, Edwin and Viconia are the best of their respective classes. So it's a different kind of challenge. :)
Speaking of reputation, I would welcome it if it was easier to keep a neutral or low reputation. In BG2 at least, you need to flat-out ignore some quests and even then it's hard if you don't bring Viconia along. But I doubt it'll happen - it's the kind of feature they can't implement, I think.
Well, there are some places that could give you a rep hit in BG1 that don't currently do so.
Picking a fight with those Amnian nobles you run into somewhere in the southern areas might not be fondly regarded when everyone's concerned about an impending war, assuming someone sees it.
Screwing over that guy in Nashkel who thinks you're Greywolf coming to collect a bounty could also lower reputation.
Or working with Ramazith in Baldur's Gate (I think that might do it already, actually), stuff like that.
Of course, that won't solve the issue of there simply not being a lot of evil quests and even neutral behavior leading you up to 20 reputation by the middle of the game, and I doubt that's high on their list of priorities, too.
Last edited by Johnny Blade : 07-27-2012 at 06:40 AM.
Actually, that was always something I appreciated about the BG series: there's no question that an evil/low reputation playthrough is more difficult (because you get less XP and can't use weapons like Carsomyr or Drizzt's +5 scimitar), but that was balanced by the fact that evil NPCs like Korgan, Edwin and Viconia are the best of their respective classes. So it's a different kind of challenge. :)
I'm not talking about it being difficult, I'm talking about it being hard or impossible to keep a non-positive reputation at all.
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Originally Posted by Johnny Blade
Well, there are some places that could give you a rep hit in BG1 that don't currently do so.
Picking a fight with those Amnian nobles you run into somewhere in the southern areas might not be fondly regarded when everyone's concerned about an impending war, assuming someone sees it.
Screwing over that guy in Nashkel who thinks you're Greywolf coming to collect a bounty could also lower reputation.
Or working with Ramazith in Baldur's Gate, stuff like that.
Of course, that won't solve the issue of there simply being not a lot of evil quests and even neutral behavior leading you up to 20 reputation by the middle of the game, and I doubt that's high on their list of priorities, too.
Probably not, yes. More opportunities to take a Rep hit wouldn't hurt, though. This way you could offset the gains you get left and right.
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My FFRP characters. Avatar by Kid Kris. Sigatars by Gulaghar, Kid Kris, Zefir and billtodamax, respectively.
I'm not talking about it being difficult, I'm talking about it being hard or impossible to keep a non-positive reputation at all.
I... honestly didn't have that problem? I mean, when you say "non-positive" I'm assuming you mean low enough to get the evil "Dream" powers but not enough for city guards to constantly attack you?
I do remember there was a mod that added bards to various taverns, and they worked like temple donations but in reverse: you pay them a sum of money and they spread tales of your evil reputation, causing it to drop two or three points at a time. Never had a reason to use it myself, though...
So, does anyone now if these new NPC's will be carried over into the BG2:EE? Has there been any word on that?
Man, the crazy story purist in me badly wants to just pick the canon squad to go along with BG2's opening. But I also feel I kind of HAVE to try these new guysl
And just what is the point in having a Blackguard kit? Pretty much all the enemies are either neutral beasties or evil, so why specialize in killing good guys?
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"Is this 'cause I killed the hippie? Is that even illegal?"
So, does anyone now if these new NPC's will be carried over into the BG2:EE? Has there been any word on that?
Yes, on Twitter
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Plan is to have the new characters continue into BG2EE
From the same source
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Dorn is one pretty awesome tank.
All three characters are romanceable.
I think Rasaad will be a much better option than Anomen for female romance. Dorn too.
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And just what is the point in having a Blackguard kit? Pretty much all the enemies are either neutral beasties or evil, so why specialize in killing good guys?
Why not? For all we know, the kit might have abilities working all the time, just "flavored" to be evil.
And just what is the point in having a Blackguard kit? Pretty much all the enemies are either neutral beasties or evil, so why specialize in killing good guys?
Because if your party is evil enough to accommodate a Blackguard in the first place, you're probably going to do things like fight Drizzt and Balthazar, and you can use all the help you can get. ;)
Last edited by dianakingston : 07-27-2012 at 06:48 PM.
That Black Pits thing sounds lame to me, though. Really, getting a magic invitation/teleport scroll to some super-special Drow arena in...ooohh!...the Underdark, a place we have never seen before in a game, sounds like a mod done by a teenager. Still, there are professionals behind this, and I've played Icewind Dale with its silly expansions more than once, so it's not like this kind of uninspired background is a dealbreaker for me if the fights are fun.
My reading of it was actually to assume that you weren't going to be invited guest, but rather part of the entertainment and have to fight your way out...
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Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
Why not? For all we know, the kit might have abilities working all the time, just "flavored" to be evil.
Absolutely. It could easily be like the Assassin kit - very powerful, but only available to evil people. That's kinda how it works in BG2 anyway, all the best people you can recruit are evil. It's the fact that they're evil (and how that limits your play options) that balances out their advantages.
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Ah, yes. "Art", an abstract term capable of turning products corrupted by laziness and arrogance into masterpieces that are not merely immutable, but inherently justified.
Probably not, yes. More opportunities to take a Rep hit wouldn't hurt, though. This way you could offset the gains you get left and right.
An important thing to do here is to delink rep and store prices, having roleplaying options which are actively punished by gameplay mechanics is not a clever or useful design (and Bioware have never really gotten their heads around that, witness the inevitable lack of recognition of neutrality or, in fact, anything but absolute extremes on whatever spurious moral axis they're using today).
In BG2, turning into the Slayer lowers your rep by 2 each time.
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Think that magic is broken in 3.5? Might I suggest this?
(It's a PDF, give it a sec to load. Despite the title, it is not psionics; it's the magic system you know and love, changed to use spell points instead of slots. Also, every caster is a spontaneous caster, every spell has been rebalanced and many are meshed together.)
An important thing to do here is to delink rep and store prices, having roleplaying options which are actively punished by gameplay mechanics is not a clever or useful design (and Bioware have never really gotten their heads around that, witness the inevitable lack of recognition of neutrality or, in fact, anything but absolute extremes on whatever spurious moral axis they're using today).
On the contrary, it's both more of a challenge and more in line with what a low reputation actually means - for example, having an evil party requires you to be more economic with your equipment and gold, but it also means you'll spend a lot of time pickpocketing and stealing, which is exactly what an evil party would do anyway. :) Add to that the fact that you can sell stolen goods to black market buyers in BG2 and then steal them back, and it lines up perfectly with NE or CE roleplaying.
On the contrary, it's both more of a challenge and more in line with what a low reputation actually means - for example, having an evil party requires you to be more economic with your equipment and gold, but it also means you'll spend a lot of time pickpocketing and stealing, which is exactly what an evil party would do anyway. :) Add to that the fact that you can sell stolen goods to black market buyers in BG2 and then steal them back, and it lines up perfectly with NE or CE roleplaying.
I dunno, something in the shopkeeper logic "Ah, this man is known to bite the heads off babies for smiling at him, I can get away with charging him extra!" doesn't work for me.
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