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Old 06-25-2012, 04:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
DracoDei
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Near Atlanta,GA USA
Gender: Male
Default Semi-hiatus to avoid wearing new reviewers out, but ANYONE can post here if you want.
Wikipedia-like Cross-indexing:
The Protector-A class very much like this class in high-level concept, but with a very different execution.
T.G. Oskar's Retooled Marshall
The Fanatic - Seems to be just about the diametrical opposite of this class, both in stereotypical attitude, and in terms of class abilities.

This class got too big for its old thread so I am redoing it in a new thread spread over a ridiculous number of posts. For the moment my development notes may be included in the body of the text and I may only update the main table rather than the alternate tables when adding new abilities.

The Grace-Gift
INDEX
Post 1 - Class Introduction
  • Index & Cross-Index
  • Intent
  • A Warning to the GM
  • Important Notes for Players
  • Introductory Fluff
Post 2 - Class Description
  • Adventures, Characteristics & Alignment
  • Religion, Background, Races, Other Classes & Role
  • Abilities
  • Code of Conduct
Post 3 - Class Attributes and Tables
  • Alignment
  • Hit Points, Skills, Armor & Weapon Proficiencies
  • Class Progression Tables
Post 4 - Class Features
  • A General Rule on Spellcasting and Spell-like Abilities
  • Class Ability Descriptions
Post 5 - Class Feats, Part 1
  • Feat List
  • Feat Descriptions
Post 6 - Class Feats, Part 2
  • Feat Descriptions
Post 7 - Suggestions for Game Play
  • Racial Suggestions
  • Ability Importance
  • Suggestions on Class Attributes and Features
Post 8 - Partial Change Log
  • Partial Change Log
Post 9 - Notes for Future Development 1
Post 10 - Notes for Future Development 2/Room to grow (Empty)

INTENT
This is my attempt to create a class that is completely defensive in nature. So much so that half their tactical concern in battle is simply to stay alive.

I realize that this is a very dipable class, but it also should be good for going deeper. I haven't figured out where all the abilities go, but I thought I should request comments before I add anything more. I realize it has a lot of options, but that is intentional, so as to prevent a situation where the class can't do anything because the threat doesn't happen to match up with any of the defenses they can grant. Sort-of like the original reason clerics were given everything on their class list instead of being limited to a smaller number of spells known... although I doubt I have created another CoDzilla, since, by himself, this guy has no offense. I might drop some abilities, but the all seem so flavorful to me (yes, even the ones that just transfer some sort of numeric bonus) and none of them are likely to be overpowered by themselves. Since most of them are mutually exclusive, and all of them are defensive (mostly of OTHERS, thus avoiding a one-character show), I don't think it will make any other character class obsolete. Considering an ability to take negative effects away from allies into themselves... would synergize well with a party member who can cast Heal, but not perhaps not Heal, Mass.

In several cases I have gone a bit out of my way to make it so a Grace-Gift with a charisma of even 4 or something ridiculously low like that is still effective, at least as a village healer. The NPCs of the world thank me.

Brief warning to GMs:
Spoiler


Important notes to players:
Spoiler


Introductory Fluff
“Whatever grace is given me, let it pass to him." -Galadriel

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13, King James Bible.

Many are the gifts the gods and other powers grant. The cleric, the paladin, the favored soul, the warlock and many others are each given a different sort of gift, usually in exchange for their service. But none are called to give their gifts away in quite as personal a way as the grace-gift. Most of the blessings that the grace-gift are entrusted with to pass along to his fellows are invisible to the untrained observer. Those with skill in the arts of war may notice that the grace-gift strikes a little harder when a foe tries to move past them to get at those they protect. Those with knowledge of spells may discern the import of gestures that the grace-gift make. Those with sharp eyes may note the companions of such an individual seem to be blessed with the ability to escape danger, while the grace-gift themselves seems as hapless as a untrained man. Even the correlation between the wounds opening on the grace-gift when their companions are struck in oddly mild ways, or the tendency of the grace-gift to collapse to the ground even as their allies take to the sky may escape most. So also, their tendency to go oddly still at the very moments that their allies move with amazing speed can be easy to miss. Grace-gifts have been known to enter into stories and legends as burdens that great heroes chose to shepherd through danger. Nothing could be further from the truth; a true grace-gift is NEVER a burden. If they literally become the unsung hero it is because of the inability of the collective consciousness to retain fiddling details, the arrogance of their compatriots, or their own humility (or desire to play upon the first aspect to retain a tactical edge over the foes they face with their companions).
__________________
Best homebrew:
Grace-Gift - Taking "Defender" to a whole other level.
Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
Last edited by DracoDei : 06-09-2013 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Total Reorganization, no mechanical changes
DracoDei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 04:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
DracoDei
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Near Atlanta,GA USA
Gender: Male
Default Fluff Aspect Suggestions, and Code of Conduct
Adventures: Grace-gifts adventure to protect. Some protect out of altruism, others to maintain order (possibly including the sort of order than claims that the weak should never be given equal footing with the strong). Those who follow gods of specific races often are motivated by desire to protect those races, both as a whole, and individuals of that race.

Characteristics: Grace-gifts are granted great protection (grace) by the god or force that has chosen them. While an inexperienced grace-gift might be easy to strike in combat, they will be less likely to be mortally wounded than almost any other character of equal power. It is the "gifting" part of their name that truly sets them apart as they extend the grace granted to them to those nearby. From nursing a sick child rapidly back to health, even as they themselves are likely to catch the disease in question, to taking on the very weight of gravity in the stead of a brave comrade, a grace-gift takes the concept of "a friend in need is a friend indeed" to whole new heights.

Alignment: The desire to protect that goes hand-in-hand with the powers of a grace-gift requires either altruism, or, more rarely, a dedication to order, but without altruism. Thus most grace-gifts are Good of some variety or another, and the remainder are Lawful.

Religion: Grace-gifts are as religious as paladins, and they tend to follow gods with the Good, Law, and/or Protection domains.

Background: The background of the grace-gift is much like that of the paladin, with the exception that they require no especial training, and thus often lack mentors or masters before they become settled into their powers(AKA reach first level). Many NPC grace-gifts find service as healers, tending to the sick, others enter into service as bodyguards, in some cases only starting their study of more advanced weapon-work (AKA taking a weapon proficiency feat in a martial or exotic weapon or cross-classing into a fighting class) after they have started their duties. While lacking in much ability to deter harm or slay attackers, they make up for it with their ability to protect against poisons simply by sitting beside their charge as they eat and drink gesturing frequently.

Races: Grace-gifts vary from races to race only in-as-much as the alignments that they live by do.

Other Classes: Paladins, and clerics of compatible alignments get along very well indeed with grace-gifts. If a grace-gift supports a person (or at least their actions at the moment) they will go to great lengths to aid them. Almost any other class can gain strength when supported by a grace-gift, and that is enough for the grace-gift. Few are ungrateful for such aid. In return grace-gift truly appreciates help in return, especially help that lets them endanger themselves less when they share their own blessings. The wizard who provides a Mage Armor, or cleric with Shield of Faith, thus allowing the grace-gift to grant whoever needs it at the moment their own ability to turn aside attacks is appreciated, as is the sorcerer who casts fly on a physically strong grace-gift so that the grace-gift can keep up when he bears both the sorcerer and the gnomish bard aloft. Of course, everyone loves the cleric when he is healing them, but when the wound is one literally taken for a mutual friend, the bond only grows the deeper.

Role: Grace-gifts serve much the same defensive roles as the buffing ability of a wizard, cleric, or defensively specialized fighter(this last, obviously, doesn't involve much buffing). A lot of their abilities are mutual exclusive, but this simply means that they can change roles from round to round as needed.[/spoiler]

Abilities: Charisma is important for many grace-gift abilities. Strength helps out with the attacks of opportunity that are the only thing approaching offense that grace-gifts are skilled with (and they are QUITE good at them at later levels). Strength is also vital to good use of the Carry the Burden ability, which allows you to lift your allies into the air by accepting the burden of gravity in their stead. Constitution helps with your Gift of Tolerance and Gift of Breath abilities, although, depending on circumstances, you might not need a LOT of it. Dexterity and Constitution are important because you have few protections against weapons (especially initially), and what defenses you DO have, you often will want to give away from time to time. You will also be loaning others the benefits of your base saving throws, so, together with Wisdom, these will ensure that you can survive doing so (but their benefits in this second regard are strictly secondary to charisma once you move beyond your initial array of abilities and gain the Divine Grace class feature).

Code of Conduct
Committing individual Chaotic or Evil acts has no effect on a grace-gift in and of itself, but they must dedicate themselves to either Good or Law. This choice is made upon gaining their first level in this class, and can not be changed. If they ever are not of the selected alignment they lose all grace-gift abilities with the exception of weapon and armor proficiencies and bonus feats. However, any feats with the [Grace-Gift] tag cease to provide any benefit regardless of if they were taken as grace-gift bonus feats. Their base saving throw bonuses from this class are also all reduced to 0. They may not progress any farther in levels as a grace-gift. They regains their abilities, saves, [Grace-Gift] bonus feat functionality and advancement potential if they returns to an acceptable alignment and then atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.
__________________
Best homebrew:
Grace-Gift - Taking "Defender" to a whole other level.
Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
Last edited by DracoDei : 06-09-2013 at 04:21 PM.
DracoDei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 04:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
DracoDei
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Near Atlanta,GA USA
Gender: Male
Default Main Table, Auxiliary Tables, Skills, Hit-Points, and Armor and Weapon Proficiencies.
Main Table, Auxiliary Tables, Skills, Hit-Points, and Armor and Weapon Proficiencies.

Alignment: Any Good and/or Any Lawful

Starting Gold: 6d4 x 5 gp (75 gp on average)
Starting Age: As per fighter.

Hit-die
d12

Class Skills:
The class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance(Dex), Climb(Str), Concentration(Con), Craft(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Heal(Wis), Jump(Str), Knowledge[Local] (Int), Knowledge[Nobility and Royalty] (Int), Knowledge[Religion] (Int), Profession(Wis), Ride(Dex), Sense Motive(Wis), Speak Language(N/A), Spellcraft(Int), Survival(Wis), Swim(Str), Tumble(Dex), Use Rope(Dex)

Skill Points at 1st Level
(4 + Int modifier) ×4. ((Bump this up to a 6+ Int base to reduce MAD?))

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
4 + Int modifier.

Main Table For Building/Leveling Up Characters (Note: I DO NOT recommend using this table for getting to know this class or critiquing it, it is MUCH too verbose.)
Spoiler

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
The Grace-gift is proficient with one type of simple melee weapon OR with one type of melee weapon that naturally deals subdual damage(such as a whip or sap, or one-handed/two-handed versions of a sap) OR with nets*. They are also proficient with Bolas, but ONLY when making trip attacks with them rather than attempting to deal damage.
*Due to the way I hear that Pathfinders rules allow AoOs to be used for tripping and grappling, selecting this option requires expending the first level bonus feat to select in Pathfinder.

If they pick nets, then, for purpose of threatened areas for attacks of opportunity they treat nets as a melee weapon with reach. Thus they can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe. They do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making an attack of opportunity of their own with a net.

They are proficient with light armor but not with shields.

Because the somatic components for a grace-gift's spell-like abilities are simpler than those used by wizards and sorcerers, a grace-gift can use those abilities while either unarmored or wearing light armor without needing to roll for arcane spell failure. However, like almost all arcane spell casters (and despite the fact that they themselves are divine spellcasters), a grace-gift wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of spell failure (all their spell-like abilities, have somatic components unless otherwise noted). A multi-class grace-gift still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from levels in other classes.

Base Attack Bonus, Saves, Bonus Feats and Passive and/or Strictly Out of Combat Abilities(Work in Progress)
Spoiler


Active and/or In Combat Abilities
Spoiler


COMPLETELY New Abilities by Level, Without Details on Upgrades/Sub-abilities Available(But includes all bonus-feat gains, even if they are for a degree (I to IX) that you already gained)
Spoiler



Divine Protection: AC Bonus Table
Spoiler


Defensive Strike and Improved Defensive Strike
Spoiler


Carry the Burden Range
Spoiler


Table formatting suggestions (that turned into class tweak ideas and non-mechanic changing rewrites of ability descriptions) from Kane0
Spoiler
__________________
Best homebrew:
Grace-Gift - Taking "Defender" to a whole other level.
Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
Last edited by DracoDei : 06-10-2013 at 09:54 AM.
DracoDei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 04:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
DracoDei
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Near Atlanta,GA USA
Gender: Male
Default Class Abilities
Spellcasting and Supernatural Abilities: Unless otherwise noted, all spell-like and supernatural ability of this class that require an action (even a free action) to use are divine (opposed to arcane), have somatic components, and qualify as divine versions of the spells they duplicate for purposes of qualifying for prestige classes, feats, etc and can be modified as such as if they were both a spell and a spell-like ability by class features, feats (but noting that grace-gifts lack spells per day that can be sacrificed to power basic metamagic feats with level adjustments higher than +0), and items (such as Rod of Maximize). ((Probably lots of loop-holes and naming problems here, but it will be worth it in the end to get this working so they can perform their job's right, unlike the poor warlocks.))

If an ability has both continuous(unless transferred, or simply continuous) functions and ones that require an action to use, then the above applies only to the portions of the abilities that requires actions.

Despite the divine nature of their abilities they incur an arcane spell-failure chance if used with medium or heavy armor and/or a shield for actively using almost all of their class abilities. The grace-gift's active class abilities lack verbal components unless based on a spell with verbal components. The grace-gift's caster level is equal to his class level and his saving throws (on the rare occasions someone attempts a save against one of his abilities) are equal to 10 + the (equivalent) spell level of the effect + their charisma modifier.[/spoiler]

Class Abilities

An Ounce of Prevention(Sp):
Spoiler


Aura(Ex):
Spoiler


Bonus Feats:
Spoiler


Divine Protection(Su):
Spoiler


Gift of Resistance(Sp):
Spoiler


Gift of Shielding (Sp):
Spoiler


Gift of Tolerance(Sp):
Spoiler


Swift to Protect(Ex):
Spoiler


Defensive Strike(Ex):
Spoiler


Life Saver(Ex):
Spoiler


Divine Grace (Su):
Spoiler


Helpful(Ex):
Spoiler


Master of the Healing-ward(Ex):
Spoiler


Courage(Ex):
Spoiler


Carry the Burden(Sp):
Spoiler


Enhanced Defensive Strike (Su):
Spoiler


Hands of the Healer(Su):
Spoiler


Status (Sp):
Spoiler


Gift of Time(Sp):
Spoiler


Gift of Breath (Sp):
Spoiler


Gift of Soul(Su):
Spoiler


Helping Hand (Sp):
Spoiler


Gift of Life (Sp):
Spoiler


Shield of the Soul(Su/Sp):
Spoiler


Mobile Defender(Ex): NOTE THAT THIS REQUIRES THE BLOCKER FEAT, WHICH HAS PREREQUISITES, TO BE OF ANY USE.
Spoiler


Matchless Loyalty(Ex):
Spoiler


Gift of Foresight(Sp):
Spoiler
__________________
Best homebrew:
Grace-Gift - Taking "Defender" to a whole other level.
Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
Last edited by DracoDei : 06-09-2013 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Major reorganization with minimal mechanical changes.
DracoDei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 04:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
DracoDei
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Near Atlanta,GA USA
Gender: Male
Default Class Feats, Part 1
NEW Feats
Standard Format Index of New Feats
Anchoring Defense
---Extradimensional Defense
Armored Defender
Burden Bearer
Chaotic Defense
???Defensive Trip???
Diving Evasion
Doubled Gifts
---Tripled Gifts
------Bountiful Gifts
---------Endless Gifts
Energy Defense
Enhanced Material Defense
---Strike Anything Defensively
Evil Defense
Good Defense
Grace-Gift's Dodge
Grace-Gift's Toughness, Least
---Grace-Gift's Toughness, Lesser
------Grace-Gift's Toughness
---------Grace-Gift's Toughness, Improved
GET OFF OF THEM!!!
Heavy Breather
Divine Protection, Improved
---Divine Protection, Greater
Improved Gift of Resistance
---Improved Divine Grace
Improved Gift of Tolerance
Improved Healing Acceleration((Need to roll this into the main class))
Improved Shield of the Soul
---Greater Shield of the Soul
Improved Swift to Protect
Improved Mobile Defender
Lawful Defense
Mage-Slayer, Lesser
Plague-Bane
---Improved Plague-Bane
??Protecting Paladin??
??Protector's Reward??
Sacrificial Defense
Shielded Defender
Stoic Protector
Touch of the Grace-Gift
---Improved Touch of the Grace-Gift
---Disaster's Bane
Martyr's Power

The Feats Themselves

Anchoring Defense [Grace-Gift]

You can seriously impede even the most elusive of foes.
Prerequisites: Enhanced Defensive Strike with Ghost Touch.
Benefits: When you hit an incorporeal creature with a defensive strike, it must make a will save with a DC of 10+1/2 grace-gift level+charisma modifier. If it fails it loses the incorporeal quality for 1d3 rounds. If it is currently at least partially within a solid object it is shunted out to the nearest open space that can fully contain it, taking 1d6 damage per 5 feet so traveled.
Special: A character with at least 7 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. You may take this feat more than once, each time after the first, the DC of the save increases by 3.
Extradimensional Defense [Grace-Gift]
Even teleportation can not protect aggressors.
Prerequisites: Anchoring Defense, Grace-Gift Level 11, Enhanced Defensive Strike with Ghost Touch.
Benefits: An opponent who uses a [teleportation] spell or effect to arrive withing your threatened area provokes an attack of opportunity from you, this attack of opportunity gains the benefits of Enhanced Defensive Strike. If they are arriving within there own reach plus 5' of an ally this attack of opportunity counts fully as a Defensive Strike.
Special: A character with at least 11 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Armored Defender [Grace-Gift]
You can work around the problems of wearing a bit more protection.
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift Level 11, Proficiency with Medium Armor
Benefits: You do not suffer an arcane spell failure chance for grace-gift spells or spell-like abilities for medium armor. You may tumble in medium armor, but if you do so, the armor check penalty from the armor to the tumble roll is doubled.
Special: A character with at least 11 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Burden Bearer [Grace-Gift]
"He's not heavy, he's my comrade."
Prerequisites: Carry the Burden class feature.
Benefits: Halve the amount of all load increases caused by your use of your Carry the Burden class ability.
Normal: Your load increases by the weight of the character(s) benefiting from your Carry the Burden ability plus the sum of their loads.
Special: This feat may be taken up to three times, its effects stack. The progression is 1/2, 1/4, 1/8. A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Chaotic Defense [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 13, Enhanced Defensive Strike [Chaos].
Benefits: When you hit an non-chaotic creature with a defensive strike it is deafened for 1d4 rounds. If it has more hitdice than your Grace-Gift caster level it is allowed a Fortitude saving throw with a DC of 10+1/2 grace-gift level+charisma modifier to negate the deafness. Furthermore, if you are on your home plane, and the creature you strike is a nonchaotic extraplanar creature it must make a will save against the same DC (regardless of hit-dice) or be instantly banished back to its home plane. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours.
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. You may take this feat more than once, each time after the first, the DC of the saves increases by 3.


???Defensive Trip??? [Grace-Gift]
"Hold It!"
Prerequisites: Defensive Strike class feature granting a to-hit bonus, Grace-Gift level 3
Benefits: If you are unarmed, or if you can make trip attacks with your weapon, you may substitute trip attempts for attacks of opportunity provoked by movement. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent in this way while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent in this way and when using bolas to trip. These benefits do not stack with the benefits of the Improved Trip feat and you do not get a free attack on an opponent you successfully trip in this way, even if you also have the Improved Trip feat.
Normal: You can't make trip attempts as attacks of opportunity and trip attempts provoke attacks of opportunity.
Special: A character with at least 3(2?) levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Diving Evasion [Fighter] [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Tumble 1 rank, Dexterity 13, must be capable of being both standing and prone (not at the same time of course).
Benefits: When this feat is active, there is a direction that you could take a 5' step in without squeezing (regardless of other factors that might effect your ability to take 5' steps), and you are standing, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to your AC and a +2 bonus to reflex saves, however, any reflex save you make by less than 5 or any attack that misses you by less than 5 points causes you to become prone, and moves you 5 feet in a random direction that you could fit without squeezing. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

You may activate or deactivate this feat at any time (except during the process of an attack on you or you making reflex save). During your turn this is a free action, at any other time it is an immediate action.
Normal: You can't dive out of the way of attacks.
Special: A Fighter or Grace-Gift may take this feat as one of their class bonus feats.

Doubled Gifts [Grace-Gift]
You can grant your gifts somewhat more easily.
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 9
Benefits: Once per round, up to 3/day, you may exchange a standard action for a swift action, however this action can ONLY be used to cast a grace-gift SLA. In no case may you use a given SLA more than once per round by virtue of this feat.
Tripled Gifts [Grace-Gift]
You can grant your gifts very easily.
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 11
Benefits: Once per round, up to 3 times per day, you may exchange a move action for a swift action, however this action can ONLY be used to cast a grace-gift SLA. In no case may you use a given SLA more than once per round by virtue of this feat(even in combination with Doubled Gifts).

Also, you may use Doubled Gifts 6/day instead of 3/day, but still only once per round.
Special: A character with at least 11 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Bountiful Gifts [Grace-Gift]
Gifts flow from you like beer from a keg at a dwarven celebration.
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 13
Benefits: You may use Doubled Gifts a number of times per day equal to 3+half your grace-gift level. You may use Tripled Gifts a number of times per day equal to 1+one-third your grace-gift level. Neither may be used more than once per round each.
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Endless Gifts [Grace-Gift]
Gifts flow from you like water over a waterfall.
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 15
Benefits: You have no daily limit on the number of times you may use doubled gifts or tripled gifts.
Special: A character with at least 15 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Energy Defense [Grace-Gift]
The energy of your protection manifests a bit more obviously than most grace-gifts.
Prerequisites: Enhanced Defensive Strike with an alignment type.
Benefits: Each time you make a defensive strike, you may change the bonus damage granted by your defensive strike class feature to one of the following that your defensive strikes are aligned to by your enhanced defensive strike class feature. Pick one at the time you take this feat. This can't be changed but you can take this feat again to add another option.
  • Acid, halve amount of bonus damage when using this option(Evil aligned strike)
  • Cold(Lawful aligned strike)
  • Fire(Evil aligned strike)
  • Lightning(Good aligned strike)
  • Non-lethal, this applies to all damage dealt by the strike, not just the bonus damage(Good aligned strike)
  • Sonic, halve amount of bonus damage when using this option(Chaotic aligned strike)
More importantly, you gain also gain resistance to the damage type equal to twice your grace-gift level(or four times your grace-gift level in DR/lethal damage if you gain the ability to deal subdual damage via this feat, but which does NOT apply against things such as hunger, thirst, cold and hot environments, etc). You may use a swift, move, or standard action to transfer this resistance or damage reduction to one ally within a number of feet equal to 10+Your Grace-Gift level, rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5. This transfer lasts for one round.
Normal: Your bonus damage from defensive strike is the same type as when you are not making a defensive strike.
Special: A character with at least 7 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. You may take this feat more than once, each time select a different damage type that you qualify for your bonus damage.

Enhanced Material Defense [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 3, Enhanced Defensive Strike class feature.
Benefit: Select one(two?) material which a two-handed weapon for a medium sized may be made of for an additional cost of no more than 2,000 gp. When making defensive strikes your weapon counts as being made of that SPECIFIC material for by-passing damage reduction, regeneration, and other such defenses, or for special purposes involving a specific material (for instance if you have some sort of Vampire Hunter PrC that lets you stake vampires during AoOs on a sufficiently good roll, you might wish to select "wood" so that you can stake with metal swords and other piercing weapons of appropriate length). This is IN ADDITION to any other material(s) it is made of or counts as being made of. In no case does this allow your weapon to acquire a trait that could be acquired via enhanced defensive strike, such as flame-touched iron weapons counting as [Good]. In any case other common (and valid) choices include cold iron, alchemical silver(noting there is no penalty to damage with this option), Byeshk, or Targath.
Special: A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. This feat may be taken more than once. Each time you select a new (pair of) material(s).
Strike Anything Defensively [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 15, Enhanced Defensive Strike(Adamantine and two special features) class feature, Enhanced Material Defense emulating at least two different materials ((Give rebates on any excess instances?))
Benefit: Your defensive strikes ignore all damage reduction.
Special: A character with at least 15 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Evil Defense [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 13, Enhanced Defensive Strike [Good].
Benefits: When you hit an non-evil creature with a defensive strike it is dazed for 1 round. If it has more hitdice than your Grace-Gift caster level it is allowed a Fortitude saving throw with a DC of 10+1/2 grace-gift level+charisma modifier to negate the deafness. Furthermore, if you are on your home plane, and the creature you strike is a nonevil extraplanar creature it must make a will save against the same DC (regardless of hit-dice) or be instantly banished back to its home plane. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours.
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. You may take this feat more than once, each time after the first, the DC of the saves increases by 3.

Good Defense [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 13, Enhanced Defensive Strike [Good].
Benefits: When you hit an non-good creature with a defensive strike it is deafened for 1d4 rounds. If it has more hitdice than your Grace-Gift caster level it is allowed a Fortitude saving throw with a DC of 10+1/2 grace-gift level+charisma modifier to negate the deafness. Furthermore, if you are on your home plane, and the creature you strike is a nongood extraplanar creature it must make a will save against the same DC (regardless of hit-dice) or be instantly banished back to its home plane. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours.
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. You may take this feat more than once, each time after the first, the DC of the saves increases by 3.

Grace-Gift's Dodge [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 17, Dodge, Tumble 22 ranks, Divine Protection class feature granting you at least a +10 bonus to armor class(when you aren't giving it away).
Benefit: Once per round, when struck by an attack from an opponent you have designated as the object of your dodge, you may automatically avoid all damage from the attack.
Special: A character with at least 17 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Grace-Gift's Toughness, Least [Grace-Gift]
Your body is a shield for those who need it, and a shield that can not take a few nicks is utterly worthless.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 11, Improved Toughness
Benefit: The bonus hit-points from Improved Toughness increase to +2/level. This change is retroactive for grace-gift levels previously gained, ?but not for levels of any other class you had at the time of taking this feat, although it does apply to levels of any class you later gain?.
Special: A character with at least 11 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Grace-Gift's Toughness, Lesser [Grace-Gift]
Your body is a shield for those who need it, and shields need to be strong.
Prerequisites:
Grace-gift level 13
Improved Toughness
Grace-Gift's Toughness, Least
Benefit: The bonus hit-points from Improved Toughness increase to +3/level. This change is retroactive for grace-gift levels previously gained, ?but not for levels of any other class you had at the time of taking this feat, although it does apply to levels of any class you later gain?.
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Grace-Gift's Toughness[Grace-Gift]
Some shields are better-made than others.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 15
Improved Toughness
Grace-Gift's Toughness, Least
Grace-Gift's Toughness, Lesser
Benefit: The bonus hit-points from Improved Toughness increase to +4/level. This change is retroactive for grace-gift levels previously gained, ?but not for levels of any other class you had at the time of taking this feat, although it does apply to levels of any class you later gain?.
Special: A character with at least 15 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Grace-Gift's Toughness, Improved [Grace-Gift]
Pain is only the sign that someone is making a feeble attempt to remove you from between them and those you protect.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 17
Improved Toughness
Grace-Gift's Toughness, Least
Grace-Gift's Toughness, Lesser
Grace-Gift's Toughness
Benefit: The bonus hit-points from Improved Toughness increase to +6/level(sic). This change is retroactive for grace-gift levels previously gained, ?but not for levels of any other class you had at the time of taking this feat, although it does apply to levels of any class you later gain?.
Special: A character with at least 17 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
GET OFF OF THEM! [Grace-Gift]
Attempting to overwhelm your teammates with numbers is... unwise.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 3, Defensive Strike class feature granting to-hit bonus.
Benefit: At its most basic level you may use a full-round action to make a single melee attack on each enemy that is within your threatened area that has at least one ally (NOT COUNTING YOURSELF) within its threatened area and has made a melee attack against at least one of your allies (AGAIN, NOT COUNTING YOURSELF) since your last turn (or the start of combat if it is your first turn). These attacks are made at your full BAB and gain the to-hit bonus from Defensive Strike and half of the damage bonus of Defensive Strike. If you have the Enhanced Defensive Strike ability these attacks also have all the benefits of that ability to which your class levels and feats entitle you.

When you use the GET OFF OF THEM!!! feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.

If your grace-gift level is at least 6 when using this ability you may instead make these attacks as a standard action.

If your grace-gift level is at least 11 and you are actually using a full round action to use this ability, then you make two such attacks on each such enemy.

If your grace-gift level is at least 16 then you may make two such attacks on each such enemy as a standard action.

Remember, you can not use this feat on your first turn in any combat in which you use Swift to Protect.

Special: A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Heavy Breather [Grace-gift]
With practice, breathing for two becomes much easier.
Prerequisites: Gift of Breath class feature.
Benefits: Halve Constitution penalties for each character you are breathing for via "Gift of Breath", minimum 1 in the case of each such character.
Normal: You take penalties to constitution when breathing for other characters as per the appropriate chart.
Special: A character with at least 5 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. This feat may be taken up to three times, its effects stack. The progression is 1/2, 1/4, 1/8. The minimum constitution penalty for each creature you are breathing for remains unchanged.

Divine Protection, Improved [Grace-gift]
Your protection from threats as simple as a blade is strong.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 1
Benefits: When you use your Divine Protection class feature to grant at least 1 point of armor class bonus to a SINGLE ally the granted bonus is then increased by 2. When using the multitargetting version of Divine Protection, the targets gain (bonus sacrificed -1) instead of (bonus sacrificed -2) armor class.
Special: A grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Divine Protection, Greater [Grace-gift]
Your protection from threats as simple as a blade is strong.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 9?, Divine Protection, Improved
Benefits: When you use your Divine Protection class feature to grant at least 3 points of armor class bonus to a SINGLE ally the granted bonus is double what you sacrifice. When using the multitargetting version of Divine Protection, the targets gain (bonus sacrificed +1) armor class.
Special: A grace-gift of at least ?9th? level may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
__________________
Best homebrew:
Grace-Gift - Taking "Defender" to a whole other level.
Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
Last edited by DracoDei : 06-09-2013 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Major thread reorganization with minimal to no mechanical changes.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
DracoDei
Ettin in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Near Atlanta,GA USA
Gender: Male
Default Class Feats, Part 2
Improved Gift of Resistance [Grace-gift]
Every scrap of protection from threats more complex than a blade is yours to give as a gift... provided it was truly given to you by the gods to begin with.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 3, Gift of Protection and Divine Grace class features
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws. This is three SEPARATE bonuses. Both these bonuses and the bonuses to saves from divine grace may now be transferred via Gift of Protection as if they were base saves.
Special: A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Improved Gift of Tolerance [Grace-gift]
Neather arctic chill nor desert heat affects you or those under your care.
Prerequisites:
Class level: Grace-gift level 1
Class features: Gift of Tolerance
Benefits: You gain a +4 bonus to saves against any environmental condition of heat or cold that Endure Elements would provide a mechanical benefit against. You now may effect two targets per point of constitution penalty you take from Gift of Tolerance.
Normal: Each target you effect with Gift of Tolerance imposes a -2 penalty to your constitution score.
Special: A grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Improved Gift of Protection [Grace-gift]
Every scrap of protection from threats more complex than a blade is yours to give as a gift... provided it was truly given to you by the gods to begin with.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 3, Gift of Protection and Divine Grace class features
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws. This is three SEPARATE bonuses. Both these bonuses and the bonuses to saves from divine grace may now be transferred via Gift of Protection as if they were base saves.
Special: A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Improved Gift Divine Grace [Grace-gift]
The protections against threats more complex than a blade on you are strong indeed.
Prerequisites:
Class Level: Grace-gift level 11
Class Features: Gift of Protection and Divine Grace class features
Feats: Great Fortitude, Improved Gift of Protection, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
Benefits: You gain a +4 bonus to all saving throws. This bonus may not be transferred.
Special: A character with at least 11 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Improved Shield of the Soul [Grace-gift]
Your soul's shield is stronger than usual.
Prerequisites: Shield of the Soul class feature, Grace-Gift level 11
Benefits: The spell resistance granted by your Shield of the Soul increases by 2.
Special: A character with at least 11 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Greater Shield of the Soul [Grace-gift]
Your soul's shield is both adaptable and very strong.
Prerequisites: Shield of the Soul class feature, Improved Shield of the Soul, Grace-Gift level 13
Benefits: The spell resistance granted by your Shield of the Soul increases by a further 2 points. This stacks with the bonus given by Shield of the Soul.
Additionally, when transferring your spell-resistance you may choose to reduce the strength of the spell-resistance(s) you grant to each ally benefiting from the transfer, thus allowing it to synergize better with their spell-resistance from other sources. You may reduce each individual spell-resistance granted by a different amount, including zero (but not less than zero... that would just be silly, you silly!).
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Improved Swift to Protect [Grace-gift]
???
Prerequisites: Swift to Protect, Grace-Gift level 5
Benefits: When you use Swift to Protect but before initiative is rolled, you may select one of two benefits:
  1. You may add your charisma modifier to your initiative.
  2. If, upon rolling, your total initiative score would be less than your charisma score, replace it with your charisma score.
Special: A character with at least 5 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Improved Mobile Defender [Grace-gift]
Even at your most overwhelmed your protection does not flag.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Blocker, Improved Blocker, Grace-Gift level 15, Mobile Defender Class feature.
Benefits: For purposes of the Blocker and Improved Blocker feats you may take Total Defense as a free action at the end of your turn. The effects for those feats is as if you had spend a full-round action taking Total Defense. However if you use this option, any movement you make via those feats before the start of your next turn counts against your movement for said next turn, thus requiring you to expend at least a five-foot step, and quite possibly a move action, or even (in very rare cases) a double-move action.
This version of total defense provides no bonus to armor class or other similar benefits.
Special: A character with at least 15 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Chaotic Defense [Grace-Gift]
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 13, Enhanced Defensive Strike [Law].
Benefits: When you hit an non-lawful creature with a defensive strike it is deafened for 1d4 rounds. If it has more hitdice than your Grace-Gift caster level it is allowed a Fortitude saving throw with a DC of 10+1/2 grace-gift level+charisma modifier to negate the deafness. Furthermore, if you are on your home plane, and the creature you strike is a nonlawful extraplanar creature it must make a will save against the same DC (regardless of hit-dice) or be instantly banished back to its home plane. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours.
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. You may take this feat more than once, each time after the first, the DC of the saves increases by 3.

Mage-Slayer, Lesser [Grace-gift]
It is difficult to hurt your friends with magic when you are on the job.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 3, Spellcraft 4 ranks
Benefits: Spellcasters you threaten may not cast spells that target one or more of your allies defensively, (they automatically fail their concentration checks to do so), but they are aware that they cannot cast such spells defensively while being threatened by a character with this feat. This includes harmful spells that target an area (such as Wail of the Banshee, Fireball, or Web) occupied by one or more of your allies. Remember you do not count as your own ally.
Special: A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. Note that unlike the Mage-Slayer feat this does not reduce your own caster level.

Plague-Bane [Grace-Gift]
There are diseases that can bring a nation to its knees, infecting more people per day than clerics may cure. Every wise king who values the lives of his people(if only for what they provide him) has a healthy amount of fear of these things... those diseases fear YOU.
Prerequisites: Master of the Healing Ward class ability, Heal 6 ranks
Benefits: The increase to the number of people you can provide long-term care for and treat for diseases (and things that count as diseases due to Hands of the Healer if you have that ability) changes from one half your grace-gift level to twice your grace-gift level.
In addition, for purposes of saves versus mundane disease (IE not intrensically supernatural or magical in nature, and not in the process of being inflicted via Contagion or similar), your Gift of Resistance class feature provides its full benefits out to a range of 30 feet, and the reduced benefits out to a range of 100 feet.
((specify rules, preferably as a sub-spoiler under Gift of Resistance for how much of the time you have to use Gift of Resistance for it to apply to a daily saving throws against disease.))
Special: A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Improved Plague-Bane [Grace-Gift]
You fear no disease.
Prerequisites: Master of the Healing Ward class ability, Plague Bane, Heal 6 ranks
Benefits: You become immune to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
The ranges for Gift of Resistance purposes of saves versus mundane disease further increases, providing full benefit out to a range of 100 feet, and the reduced benefits out to a range of 500 feet.
Against NON-mundane diseases, the ranges are instead 30 feet for full effect and 100 feet for the reduced effect.
Special: A character with at least 3 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats. If you had previously taken Disease Resistant as a bonus feat, you may retrain it to any other feat you could have taken at that level.
??Protecting Paladin?? [Grace-gift]((VERY rough draft, just jotting a rough sketch down.))
To both strike down evil and lend defense to others are two sides of the same coin.
Prerequisites: Divine Grace ability from BOTH Grace-Gift AND Paladin (Except this means that you either need to be triple-classed, human, or eating XP penalties... well I guess I could put it on the I list and you could spend a bonus feat on it).
Benefits: Removes multi-classing induced caps from all Grace-Gift abilities.
+1 to all saves? (to compensate for redundancy of Divine Grace)
If the character has the ability to turn undead as a result of his paladin levels then his grace-gift levels stack with his paladin level to determine the effectiveness of that ability. (Simply because paladin turning is weak enough already, so why not throw them a bone?)
If the character has the spell-like ability to Remove Disease as a result of his paladin levels then grace-gift levels stack with paladin levels for determining how many times per week they can do so.
Can take more levels of Paladin even if you take grace-gift levels afterward.
Stack for Mount (once you get mount? Or stack towards mount anyway?)
Stack for Defensive Strike and, if the grace-gift has the ability, Improved Defensive Strike.
Stack for Lay On Hands and Touch of the Grace-Gift points add to Lay On Hands pool (which limits what they can be used for, but allows offensive uses).
Stack for number of Smite Evils per day and maybe even for damage. (Yes, I realize this means you can end up adding charisma to your to-hit multiple times a day... assuming you can smite on an AoO, which if you can't I should consider having this feat allow, but smites aren't often enough a day anyway, so I don't think I care.)
Stack for Hands of the Healer (it is so slow anyway, and you ARE losing a bit of spell-casting).

...... so basically it stacks for everything on the paladin side except BAB and spell-casting? Seems a bit much, but then again most of the abilities are either central to the paladin's contribution to the mix (Smite Evil) or so weak that it doesn't matter much (Turn undead). Could probably drop the save bonus, and the turn undead stuff.
Special: A character grace-gift who meets the requirements listed above may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

??Protector's Reward [Grace-Gift]??(This feat is a rough draft at this time, and I do not consider it ready to play without further consideration. If I had to guess I would say that it is UNDER powered.)
After much self-sacrifice for your allies to protect them from their enemies you have been granted a token amount of balancing to the karmic scales.
Prerequisites: Defensive Strike class feature granting at least a +4? bonus to damage.
Benefits: Each time you deal damage with a defensive strike or GET OFF THEM!!! to a true foe who presents a true threat (both as determined by the GM) to you or your allies add whichever of the following is the SMALLEST to a running tally:
  • The amount of damage you dealt
  • Your damage bonus from Defensive Strike for that specific attack (so this will be smaller if you are using GET OFF THEM!!!).
  • The subject’s hit points prior to being struck, +10 if the target had a constitution score. In other words the minimum amount of damage that would be required to kill/destroy the target.
At the start of each of your turns, and at the end of combat, you are healed for one quarter(one half?) of the amount of the tally and the running tally is then reduced to zero. Hitpoints in excess of your maximum gained at the start of your turn are instead gained as temporary hitpoints which last until the end of combat. Excess hitpoints gained at the end of combat are lost.
This is a supernatural ability.
Special: A character with at least 5? levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
((Change this from 1/4 to 1/2... or maybe 1/3? Anyway, looking at "Aura of Triumph" this doesn't look so powerful after all.))

Sacrificial Defense [Grace-gift] ((Poorly written, but should give the idea. Need to fix this later.))
You take down threats to those you protect, even at the cost of yourself.
Prerequisites: Enhanced Defensive Strike with option for +2d6 damage dealing 1d6 damage to you, Grace-gift level 7
Benefits: When making a defensive strike you may increase the number of d6s of damage you take when using that option by an amount up to one fifth of your grace-gift level. For each additional d6 of damage you take, increase the damage of that defensive strike by +2d6
Special: A character with at least 7 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Shielded Defender [Grace-Gift]
You can work around the problems of wearing a bit more protection.
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift Level 1, Proficiency with at least bucklers, small shields, and large shields.
Benefits: You do not suffer an arcane spell failure chance for grace-gift spells or spell-like abilities for buckers, small shields, or large shields. You may tumble while wearing a shield, but if you do so, the armor check penalty from the shield to the tumble roll is doubled and you do not gain any benefit from the shield during your tumbling movement.
Special: A grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Stoic Protector [Grace-gift]
Your aren't sociable, but you are there when you are needed.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Grace-gift level 1
Benefits: Replace your charisma(including modifier and bonus) with your wisdom(ditto), for the purpose of all grace-gift special abilities and grace-gift feats(including, for instance, the kicker if you take Combat Reflexes as a grace-gift feat).
Special: A grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Touch of the Grace-Gift [Grace-gift]
You are able to slowly repair harm to your allies... or even yourself.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 1
Benefits: A grace-gift may heal wounds with a touch (his own or those of others) by touch. Each day he can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her grace-gift level × her Charisma bonus × 4, provided her charisma modifier is 1 or greater.((Tweak this to (Charisma-10, min 1)*Level*2 so that odd points matter?)) Otherwise the amount per day is equal to twice his grace-gift level. A grace-gift may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once, however this ability may not be used on any creature that lacks both an intelligence and a constitution score, and only a number of points of healing equal to half the grace-gifts level (minimum 1) may be healed per use of this ability. Using touch of the grace-gift is a full-round spell-like with somatic components that provokes attacks of opportunity.
Note that this ability CANNOT be used to harm undead (or anything else), and heals undead (and characters with the tomb tainted soul feat, etc) perfectly well. It also is fully effective for healing any construct that has either an intelligence or constitution score (or both).
Special: A grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Disaster's Bane [Grace-Gift]
By means of this gift a hundred men may be saved in a city struck by earth-quake.
Prerequisites: Grace-Gift level 5, Touch of the Grace-Gift
Benefits: This ability an additional option when using "Touch of the Grace-Gift: a burst centered on you.

By default this option heals up to a number of creatures up to your grace-gift caster level within close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) of you. The TOTAL amount ACTUALLY healed is limited by and deducted from your daily limit of healing. You may elect to heal less than your normal limit per target per usage in order to conserve your per-day limit.

When using this option you may elect to take one point of constitution burn (or charisma burn if you do not have a constitution score). If this burn takes effect then the range of this ability is increased to Long (400ft + 40ft), penetrates all non-magical materials and barriers, and can effect an unlimited number of targets. Magical materials, other than force effects, are penetrated as long as the total amount of such material(s) in a direct line between you and the individual target is less than your grace-gift caster-level in feet. You may specifically include or exclude any creature you have line of sight to and can clearly identify. Other creatures can be included or excluded based on creature type (thus allowing the option to avoid expending healing on half-crushed cockroaches and/or animals). For targets you can't see or clearly identify this ability is automatically fooled by magical disguises with regard to creature type, and requires a caster-level check versus the disguise check to determine if is fooled by mundane disguises with regards to creature type. It is not fooled by any form of concealment, cover, invisibility(Including superior invisibility), the Dark-Stalker feat etc.

In either case the grace-gift may elect to heal no hit-point damage, but only stabilize dying creatures targetted. In such a case the ability consumes points of Touch of the Grace-Gift based on the Grace-Gift's heal checks modifier per the following table.
Heal Check Modifierup to +1011-1516-2021-2526-3031-3536-4041-4546-50
Targets stablized per point of Touch of the G.G. consumed2345678910


Special: A character with at least 5 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.
Improved Touch of the Grace-Gift [Grace-gift]
The well of healing within you is bottomless.
Prerequisites: Grace-gift level 13
Benefits: There is now no per-day cap on the amount of healing Touch of the Grace-Gift may provide.
Special: A character with at least 13 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

Martyr's Power [Grace-Gift]((This feat is a bit over-complicated, but it is only a first draft.))
While you live, you protect those you hold dear... your death releases your soul from the need to maintain its connection to your body, allowing it to become a conduit of great power for the energy of the divine. One shining perfect moment of giving.
Prerequisites: Grace Gift level 17, Four [Grace-Gift] feats (note that this is a smaller subset of the feats that a grace-gift may take as bonus feats).
Benefits: If you are slain by an ally you may choose to activate this ability at the moment of your death. If you do so, several effects occur:
  1. You take an amount of burn to both your constitution and your strength equal to your grace-gift level. This burn is recovered at the normal rate for a living creature engaged in moderate daily activity while you are dead. If your constitution score would be lower than 1 then all attempts to revivify you fail, but only half the xp's and/or material components of such efforts fail(in the case of charged magic items the lost charge(s) may be restored by anyone with the correct item creation feat and spells at half GP and xp costs), and the person attempting the revivification gets the impression that you can be revived in approximately a certain number of days. The GM determines the amount to report by secretly rolling a number of d3s equal to half the number of days remaining rounded down. If the number of days remaining is odd he should add 1d2 to this result.
  2. The duration on any of any of your grace-gift powers currently in operation whose total duration is two rounds or less are extended by a number of rounds equal to half your grace-gift level.
  3. Similarly, the durations of any of your grace-gift effects that are continuous continue for half your grace-gift level in hours.
  4. You may use any of your Grace-gift spell-like abilities that were NOT currently in operation at the moment of your death (including the transferal sub-ability of Shield of the Soul and similar) once each at the moment of your death. In the case of Gift of Shielding the damage is transferred to your corpse. The duration of all such abilities is 1 round and may not be extended by any means. When calculating how many creatures you may apply Gift of Breath, Gift of Tolerance, or similar abilities to you may not reduce your constitution below 1 but each such ability is considered separately and, do not count anything other than the specific ability in question in each case that would decrease your constitution (such as damage, drain, penalties, or burn from other sources), note specifically that this includes the constitution burn from using this ability.
  5. Related to the above: If you have the Touch of the Grace-Gift feat you may distribute your remaining healing ability among any allies you wish who are within 5' per grace-gift level without regard for the normal per-round limit. If you have Improved Touch of the Grace-Gift then this healing is instead a total amount equal to 4 times your grace-gift level times your charisma SCORE (or your grace-gift level times 10, whichever is greater) and you may apply up to number of temporary hitpoints equal to twice your Grace-Gift level to anyone you heal to full hitpoints (or was already at full hitpoints). These excess hitpoints count against your pool of healing, and last the usual duration for temporary hit-points.
  6. All allies within 5' per your grace-gift level gain a +2 bonus to hit OR to AC for one round, as if you had successfully used the Aid Another action on each of their foes. You may select which type of bonus is received individually for each such ally.
  7. Your body can not become an undead, deathless, or be otherwise transformed as a direct result of your death (such as if you are killed by a ghoul or vampire), and gains spell-resistance equal to twice your grace-gift level against all attempts by people other than your allies (as known to you at the moment of your death) to raise it as an undead, cast speak with dead, or similar spells or abilities on it.
  8. Any creature that consumes your corpse (including by your dying after having been swallowed whole or similar) must make a will-save with a DC equal to 10+your total bonus on will saves, not counting spells or magic items. If they fail this check their attitude becomes indifferent to all your allies for a number of rounds equal to your grace-gift level. So all encompassing is this effect that immunity to Mind-Affecting effects only grants a +10 bonus on the will save. This affect is broken if the creature is harmed by any of your allies, even indirectly.
  9. You receive your normal class-based spell-resistance against Soul Bind or any equivalent effect despite having transfered your spell-resistance as part of this feat. Even if you are successfully subjected to such an effect, all counter-divination spells and effects used to conceal the location of the gem automatically fail (Including placing the gem in an Anti-magic Field if that would normally cause a problem for such divination).
  10. The caster level of any spell used in an attempt to revive you is doubled, and the cost of any material or XP components is for such a spell is halved (only half XP is consumed, and if more than the necessary amount of material component is provided, only the halved amount is actually consumed).
Special: A character with at least 17 levels of grace-gift may take this feat as one of his grace-gift bonus feats.

A feat to maybe reference for benchmarks (not very granular though):
http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Battlef...283.5e_Feat%29
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Last edited by DracoDei : 06-10-2013 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Massive reorganization, few mechanical changes.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
DracoDei
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Default Suggestions for How to Play a Grace-Gift
Suggestions for How to Play a Grace-Gift
I am just going to go through the races then class abilities individually, since I already said the overall tone of the class in many places, plus if you don't get it by reading the abilities then you probably don't have the grasp of general D&D mechanics not to slow down a live group (PbP would be something else again).

Races
Spoiler




Ability Scores:
Here is the direction that the class most obviously lends itself to. Variations are VERY possible (although Charisma should always be the highest priority).
Cha > Str > Con > Dex ~= Wis ~= Int
At higher levels, wisdom may be less of a priority, given Matchless Loyalty. It really depends on how realistic your GM is about having enemies who don't know your specific capabilities order you to attack your friends rather than buff them after they charm you (noting that buffing may be a good idea for them even before you get that ability).

Class Attributes and Features:
Spoiler
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Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
DracoDei
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Default Partial Change Log
Partial Change log:
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Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:42 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
DracoDei
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Default Notes for Future Development 1
The following are my very round drafts for are the abilities I HAVEN'T added. I might or might not add any particular ones.
Spoiler



"Hello, my name is Mother Nightingale, this is my hospital. If you come to visit, or to receive treatment or instruction, then welcome indeed. If you come here to offer violence to any, then I will refer you to the list I have posted by the door of those I have added to the patient list in the past."

List of mass buff spells.

Threads in ROLEPLAYING section where I asked for help on specific aspects of this:
AoO builds


Threads researching aspects of this:
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Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
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Default Notes for Future Development 2/Room for expansion
((Nothing here yet.))
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Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
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What is this?
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
DracoDei
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Default What this is.
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Originally Posted by Callous View Post
What is this?
First off, the fact that you posted was fine. I reserved as many posts as I needed already, but wasn't going to change the thread title until I had split apart the main table (or at least made split versions of it) and perhaps gotten some more play-testing done. I didn't want to "nag" the Playground by displaying this class too insistently.

But to answer both of the interpretations of your question that come to my mind...
What is the class?
Spoiler


What is the reason I made a new thread?
Spoiler
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Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:02 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: Still under construction to improve clarity, but you can post here if you want.
For the first time since.. ever, I'm actually a player in an ongoing campaign. I've played a couple of one shots, and have been DMing for years, but haven't ever been a player before. Guess which class I chose?

So yeah, the I am naturally interested in where you go with this. It's a very original and unique type of character, and one that frankly suits my style of play ("Try not to let everyone die").

Notes:
1. I was a bit confused by how you structured the bonus feat lists. Namely, List III says "Grace-Gift 5" on it, yet at that level on the table they aren't listed as getting a feat. I took it that this number was instead to indicate the minimum level to take the feat, which made sense. Then at level 9 when they DO get a bonus feat, It only goes up to list IV, when List V says "Grace Gift 9". I think I'm missing something here.

2. AoOs get ridiculous. Evasive Strike+Combat Reflexes (As a bonus, of course)+Blocker+Stand Still. YOU. SHALL NOT. PAAAASS.

3. Touch of the Grace Gift. "Woo, I can heal 16 HP per day, at second level! Ohwait.. What's that? It takes a full round to use? And it maxes at 1/2 my level per round? So.. I can heal 1 hp as a full round action 16 times per day?" (Not a critique, I understand the reasoning and that it'll improve at upper levels. Just.. Aww)

4. Overall it looks amazing, though it is a tad complicated at first.

If you'd like me to, I can post my findings from my playtest of it.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:01 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
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Default Re: Still under construction to improve clarity, but you can post here if you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
For the first time since.. ever, I'm actually a player in an ongoing campaign. I've played a couple of one shots, and have been DMing for years, but haven't ever been a player before. Guess which class I chose?
EDIT: I am honored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
So yeah, the I am naturally interested in where you go with this. It's a very original and unique type of character, and one that frankly suits my style of play ("Try not to let everyone die").
Thank you. I was pretty sure there was a niche out there among players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
Notes:
1. I was a bit confused by how you structured the bonus feat lists. Namely, List III says "Grace-Gift 5" on it, yet at that level on the table they aren't listed as getting a feat. I took it that this number was instead to indicate the minimum level to take the feat, which made sense.
This second interpretation is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
Then at level 9 when they DO get a bonus feat, It only goes up to list IV,
Oops, that might be a typo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
when List V says "Grace Gift 9". I think I'm missing something here.
You have the mechanics right. What you are missing is a look behind the scenes.

My father is a computer programmer and so I have something of the mind-set of one (even if very little training in any specific language). Part of that mindset is making things modular so you can change one part of a thing without changing a bunch of other stuff.

The feats are sorted into their roman numeralled lists by power level, and those power levels are mapped onto the class levels via the wizard's spell level progression. This has nearly NOTHING to do with what levels they get bonus feats at.

Meanwhile, I give bonus feats at the class levels I feel are a bit empty, or otherwise in need of a boost. The class itself is a fairly weak concept in many ways, and the ONLY character design choices it offers are the feats and skill-points (EDIT: and the Enhanced Defensive Strike options and first level melee weapon proficiency). For this reason I gave one feat for the first 4 levels. In fact, initially these were static feats, but motionmatrix pointed out that I should give the players choices, so I did... and then things got gloriously out of hand as I eventually brewed up 25+ class-specific feats. Admittedly several of them (the Toughness line and Improved Divine Grace come to mind), are probably underpowered outside of some sort of theoretical optimization. I probably need to give more feats at the later class levels, but I am not quite sure where to put them. EDIT: Powering up the less good original feats could also be good. The "Grace-Gift's Toughness" line should be possible, but I am not so sure how to go about figuring out the exact numbers to do it. Said numbers would be the levels you get access to each one, and when there is a jump of 2 or more versus just 1.

The point being, as things stand, I could edit the table* to move the bonus feats around and the ONLY things I would have to change would be the table*. Meanwhile, if I want to change the power level of a feat I can do that in the feats post and under the bonus feat class feature listing (NOT the table*), and not create a contradiction with the table*.
*Tables as of this second thread, due to my trying to offer more options for how to read it so people would be less intimidated by the size of the table. But that is beside the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
2. AoOs get ridiculous. Evasive Strike+Combat Reflexes (As a bonus, of course)+Blocker+Stand Still. YOU. SHALL NOT. PAAAASS.
I assume you mean "Defensive Strike", or is "Evasive Strike" a feat I don't know about?

And yeah, it should get pretty good. Note that Blocker requires a full-round action, so you can't move towards the enemy and then do it (at least not until 13th level), but that whole business worked out very well for something that I developed as a secondary function of the class to help round them out a bit. Of course you often will be using BOTH in a given turn since "full-round action" doesn't include a Swift action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
3. Touch of the Grace Gift. "Woo, I can heal 16 HP per day, at second level! Ohwait.. What's that? It takes a full round to use? And it maxes at 1/2 my level per round? So.. I can heal 1 hp as a full round action 16 times per day?" (Not a critique, I understand the reasoning and that it'll improve at upper levels. Just.. Aww)
Yeah, it isn't anywhere near as much per-day a cleric or even druid's healing abilities (especially at class levels 3 and up), but not bad for a feat. It also isn't competing for spell-slots with almost everything else the class can do like the Vancian healers are dealing with.
The Full-Round and per-round cap were basically my way of saying "But in battle this SHALL NOT substitute for Gift of Protection and Gift of Shielding... take your damage like a man Grace-Gift."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
4. Overall it looks amazing, though it is a tad complicated at first.
Yeah, and I don't really think it can be simplified much without taking away from the core concept. The PRESENTATION could perhaps be, but the actual mechanics... they need OPTIONS in combat, and since what they need to be doing varies based on what the enemies (and, to a lesser extent, allies) will be doing, they need a LOT of options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
If you'd like me to, I can post my findings from my playtest of it.
To a homebrewer, play-test data is extremely rare and valuable. PLEASE do.
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Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
Last edited by DracoDei : 08-25-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:32 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
Welknair
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Default Re: Still under construction to improve clarity, but you can post here if you want.
1. Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. I may use that trick on later projects

2. Woops, meant to say "Evasive Reflexes", from ToB.

3. Well, combat healing was never a terribly good option anyways, and this class is better than most at helping allies not take damage in the first place (The two gifts you mentioned)

4. Can-do! First session was mostly character creation, and then a bit of exposition. The team are all 2nd level humans. My character has proficiency with a mildly brewed wooden training sword, 1d6 nonlethal bludgeoning damage. We're using elite array and I distributed my ability scores how you recommended (looking forward to level 4 when my Cha bumps up to 16). Feat-wise, I chose Force of Personality for Human, Improved Toughness for 1st, and then Stand Still and Touch of the Grace Gift as the bonuses. I plan to take Comat Reflexes as my bonus next level, as well as Blocker for 3rd. I can see how it can get complicatd fast.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
DracoDei
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Default Re: Still under construction to improve clarity, but you can post here if you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
1. Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. I may use that trick on later projects
Slightly less valuable for table-top RPGs than for programming, but yeah...
Also, you DID find a typo in the tables at level 9, and I DID fix it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
2. Woops, meant to say "Evasive Reflexes", from ToB.
Not seeing what you would use that for in that combo, since it lets you take 5' steps INSTEAD of taking an AoO, which rather defeats the point unless you can generate 2 AoOs later in the round by taking a 5' step.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
3. Well, combat healing was never a terribly good option anyways, and this class is better than most at helping allies not take damage in the first place (The two gifts you mentioned)
True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
4. Can-do! First session was mostly character creation, and then a bit of exposition. The team are all 2nd level humans. My character has proficiency with a mildly brewed wooden training sword, 1d6 nonlethal bludgeoning damage.
Sounds reasonable. No damage die increase over the sap (ARE you using the changes in red?) but it lets you add more of your strength bonus. Might want to cover what happens with Stand Still if your enemy is immune to subdual damage (constructs and undead). By RAW this works, and it isn't too counter-intuitive that it would actually work like that, but it never hurts to work these things out in advance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
We're using elite array and I distributed my ability scores how you recommended (looking forward to level 4 when my Cha bumps up to 16). Feat-wise, I chose Force of Personality for Human,
I assume this lets you substitute Charisma for Wisdom when making Will saves?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
Improved Toughness for 1st,
Probably useful at lower levels. I don't quite recall what I have heard about it at higher levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
and then Stand Still and Touch of the Grace Gift as the bonuses. I plan to take Combat Reflexes as my bonus next level, as well as Blocker for 3rd. I can see how it can get complicated fast.
Yeah, not as bad as a sorcerer, wizard, or sword-sage, but still some decisions to make (which is a good thing).
You going to be doing anything to increase your reach? The only applicable option I can think of for the next few levels is potions of Enlarge Person.


One of the things I did during the pre-game discussion for Tavar's game was to work out ahead of time which the other players thought were the tastiest buff(s) for their characters. You got that figured out, and if so, did you talk about it with the other players, or did it seem pretty obvious to you?
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Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
DracoDei
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Your face-to-face group met for the second session yet Welknair?
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Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
toapat
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My Homebrew is humbled by the sight of this class
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:29 AM   Top  -  End  -  #19
DracoDei
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Quote:
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My Homebrew is humbled by the sight of this class
Can you be more specific regarding what you like about it?
Or were you just saying that it is really long? Which is unsurprising given that they get individual class abilities that cover a good portion of the curative and buff lists, plus the feats to let you pick which aspects to accentuate. Actually simpler than a cleric if you count the text of all the spells that clerics get as part of the complexity of the class.

EDIT:
Ah, this guy. I'm not sure how you connected Grappling as being "defensive" unless it was the idea of locking down the opponent. You also needed to specify that the AC bonuses for the two shield's stacks.

But yeah, Grace-Gift gives a lot more options to play around with.
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Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:14 AM   Top  -  End  -  #20
toapat
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Quote:
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Ah, this guy. I'm not sure how you connected Grappling as being "defensive" unless it was the idea of locking down the opponent. You also needed to specify that the AC bonuses for the two shield's stacks.

But yeah, Grace-Gift gives a lot more options to play around with.
Actually grappling was added as to evoke the feeling of being a mountain and crushing your opposition as though a under a landslide. The class is built around the concept of becoming the mountain.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
DracoDei
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Actually grappling was added as to evoke the feeling of being a mountain and crushing your opposition as though a under a landslide. The class is built around the concept of becoming the mountain.
Ah, I see, I didn't realize it was a later edit...
But I need things explained to me step-by-step a lot of the time. I am very poor at reading implications. Did you like the Grace-Gift? What do you like/not like about it?
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
toapat
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I am impressed by the effort that went into this class, but what i really dislike is how you basically created an entire rulebook for one class.

I like that someone put out the effort to build such a class, but the more you put into a class, the more breakable, or more rigid it becomes.

this is a pretty cool super paladin though
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
DracoDei
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Thank you for your comments, now let me see if I can dig a little deeper to try to understand them.
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Originally Posted by toapat View Post
I am impressed by the effort that went into this class, but what i really dislike is how you basically created an entire rulebook for one class.
Sounds like "nice try, but the end result isn't worth it"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by toapat View Post
I like that someone put out the effort to build such a class, but the more you put into a class, the more breakable, or more rigid it becomes.
So you are saying I should have used the spells more directly, without as many tweaks?

I think the key to breaking this class would be a way of redirecting the benefits of the SLA's to yourself plus some way of avoiding the matching penalty. I'm not sure how easy that is to produce since I don't hang out on the optimization boards.

It is mechanically simpler than most full-casters. Not that most of those aren't broken, but the only break I have seen explained for this class (Grace-Gift followers/cohorts) I had already fixed with a warning to the GM, and I am probably going to install the mechanical fix I came up with at some point. If someone can think of one or more specific ways to break this then I might consider that, but so far I am seeing survivability and having a strongly relevant response (out of the MANY responses the class gives you) to any particular threat as being the major problems here.
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this is a pretty cool super paladin though
I assume that you are talking about the overall vibe, not the mechanics?
Mechanically they are closer to a non-CoDzilla cleric out of combat and in combat... well to use 4E's term Paladin's are Strikers and Grace-Gifts are Defenders (or perhaps Controllers/Leaders/whatever they call that?) utilizing a combination of Defensive Buffs and AoOs, with some very tasty offensive and utility buffs (and more to come on the offensive buffs I think).

Mechanically:
Matches:
  • Divine Grace
  • medium-strength hitpoint healing (well... if you take Touch of the Grace-Gift)
  • close ranged auras (Aura of Courage for the paladin, several abilities for the grace-gift)
  • pretty good AC
  • Non-hitpoint curative stuff (Weak spellcasting for the Paladin, Hands of the Healer etc for the grace-gift).
Non-matches:
  • Active role in combat is attacking for the Paladin, and he only has one class feature that is preventive for his allies. The Grace-Gift is about prevention and AoOs in combat.
  • Paladin uses physical attacks in a fairly basic way with a single per-day class feature supporting it. Grace-Gift's are more about the spell-casting, with a sideline of AoOs (or removing weaker foes from allies when/if GET OFF OF THEM!!! enters the picture). That sideline gets CHOICES and requires forethought to set up for maximum effectiveness.
  • Paladins are per/day for their smite and spellcasting, Grace-Gifts are mostly all-day for their core features (and some of those features take ALL DAY).
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:46 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
toapat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
*snip*
Im not saying that, im saying that it becomes easier to either hyperfocus the class, or to underbalance a class when you have so much material, or to create problems you cant deal with.


and i mean in terms of role, the paladin was supposed to be a defender in role and flavor, but was not given very strong defense in mechanics
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
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Quote:
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Im not saying that, im saying that it becomes easier to either hyperfocus the class, or to underbalance a class when you have so much material, or to create problems you cant deal with.
Ah, well yeah, I am creating a new style of play, or something very close to it with the super-short duration buffs. I never really stopped to think about it when I first started writing up the class, but it could prove to be a challenge. Will have to wait for playtest* and/or more specific critique.

*Two are under way! Thank you Welknair for playing in his RL game and Tavar for GMing the PbP(IC OOC) I am playing a Grace-Gift in! Of course, all that [sarcasm]pesky[/sarcasm] roleplaying has delayed the play-test of the actual class. So far I have just been "that guy with the maxed ranks in heal" who lets the guy with the demon in his head use his abilities while maintaining a semblance of control. Welknair's report for his first session can be seen further up this page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toapat View Post
and i mean in terms of role, the paladin was supposed to be a defender in role and flavor, but was not given very strong defense in mechanics
I see. Didn't recall that. Thought they were supposed to be "Protectors" in that they kill all the nasties trying to kill the defenseless commoners.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Garryl
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This feels very unprofessional to me. It's almost designed to be unreadable. It would be a lot easier to understand without all of the notes saying things along the lines of "You couldn't understand this if you tried, so here's something else." If you're going to put up a work in progress as a usable class, I'd suggest keeping it in a usable form, with your notes either on your computer or in a separate post underneath it (rather than jumbled inside something otherwise workable).

Also, the name irks me for some reason. Maybe "Martyr" or "Giver" instead? Grace-Gift just sounds like two words smushed together, rather than a real name to me.

Quote:
Main Table For Building/Leveling Up Characters (Note: I DO NOT recommend using this table for getting to know this class or critiquing it, it is MUCH too verbose.)
Ironic, because the class table contains a lot of information that many of the abilities lack. What level they come at, for instance. Or even the existence of some otherwise unlisted abilities (Status, Helping Hand, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are more lurking in there).

Under Code of Conduct, the Able to Bear It ability is mentioned, despite the fact that it doesn't exist.

Why are random passages and abilities in red? It's disconcerting. Are you trying to mess with my mind? Are those the notes your teacher wrote in after correcting it? Are those words written in blood to forge a deal with the demon of darkness and despair who lives at the heart of every forum outage?
- Edit: Nevermind, I saw the note up top about what the red text means. It's still disconcerting and makes it harder to read, though.

Why did you need to create a whole new spell for Carry the Burden, since nobody can actually use it as a spell? Just say what it does and give an effective spell level and be done with it, rather than confusing the issue by adding irrelevant information that also has unintended consequences. Specifically, since it's a spell (and for some reason specified as divine, despite the fact that Grace-Gifts aren't spellcasters at all), Chameleons can cast it, Archivists can learn it, and items can be made with it, and it's apparently on the Grace-Gift's spell list so they have a spell list despite not being spellcasters.

Spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities are normally neither arcane nor divine. Only spells have that distinction. Does the note about saving throws (I think you meant save DCs?) also apply to the supernatural abilities (which don't normally have equivalent spell levels, instead normally having save DCs of 10 + 1/2 HD + ability modifier)?
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:45 PM   Top  -  End  -  #27
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Finally some more comments on formatting... not as good as specific comments on the abilities themselves, but better than a sharp stick in the eye, and more than I expected with the thread being "offline for maintenance, enter at your own risk", which I ran out of characters to say more clearly in the title.

I am dashing off this response while my anxiety which follows me despite all the homebrewing I have done over the years allows me. Please ask questions about any unclear points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
This feels very unprofessional to me. It's almost designed to be unreadable.
I would welcome SPECIFIC ideas for clarifying it. You said a few things, but I get the sneaking feeling there is a lot more that you felt would be obvious.

The words "clarify this" are anathema to me. They unfortunately often mean nothing for me. I write how my brain works mostly, or in my best imitation of the writing style of what I read, and usually can't improve on that without knowing at least what the specific type of unclarity is, or, better yet, precise (and I mean almost computer programmer/mathematician/grammar-teacher level of precise) directions for making said repairs.
Quote:
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It would be a lot easier to understand without all of the notes saying things along the lines of "You couldn't understand this if you tried, so here's something else."
I never said THAT. I said that one table wasn't worth the effort for the someone critiquing the class (or creating a character from scratch?) rather than leveling up in it... based on what Kane0 said in the previous thread and/or some PMs between us. With only one data-point on how to improve formatting, I went along with what he said to a certain degree (not to the point of changing the underlying mechanics to make the table easier to read).

Apparently you disagree?

Also, if I missed something and said such a thing in more than one place please point them out to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
If you're going to put up a work in progress as a usable class, I'd suggest keeping it in a usable form, with your notes either on your computer or in a separate post underneath it (rather than jumbled inside something otherwise workable).
And what would such a form be EXACTLY?

My notes mostly ARE in a separate post... only a very small fraction of them are in with the text. Those notes would be very difficult for me to keep in any sort of context in a separate post, and many of them are designed so that if someone reading the class to critique it will notice the question in that context.

No, I am seriously asking, because the first thread used the format you described as far as a single table and got very little response(I swapped some reviews with the only person to comment on it in any depth). Then Kane0 said that I needed to dumb down the table because nobody would read it, so we worked together to split up the tables to group similar concepts together.

Kane0's table suggestions (which I received via PM) went with the tables. I guess I COULD move those to the "ideas for future changes" post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Also, the name irks me for some reason. Maybe "Martyr" or "Giver" instead? Grace-Gift just sounds like two words smushed together, rather than a real name to me.
Different strokes for different folks? Those sound somehow childish to me. Neologizing seemed the way to go. I could be convinced by enough people saying they prefer such a name. The mechanics are where my focus is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Ironic, because the class table contains a lot of information that many of the abilities lack. What level they come at, for instance. Or even the existence of some otherwise unlisted abilities (Status, Helping Hand, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are more lurking in there).
I haven't been as good as I might have been about updating the split tables, but up to a certain point of development everything should be on there, including the SLAs. I can go through and try to check that everything on the main table is on one of the sub-tables I made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Under Code of Conduct, the Able to Bear It ability is mentioned, despite the fact that it doesn't exist.
Yeah, I guess I should change that since I found other things to give them. Good catch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Why are random passages and abilities in red? It's disconcerting. Are you trying to mess with my mind? Are those the notes your teacher wrote in after correcting it? Are those words written in blood to forge a deal with the demon of darkness and despair who lives at the heart of every forum outage?
- Edit: Nevermind, I saw the note up top about what the red text means. It's still disconcerting and makes it harder to read, though.
Well, since I need to reference this for the play-test game, those need to stay in until they are approved. MAYBE I could just put a [Not Approved by Tavar] tag on those, but that would be harder to locate for discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Why did you need to create a whole new spell for Carry the Burden, since nobody can actually use it as a spell? Just say what it does and give an effective spell level and be done with it, rather than confusing the issue by adding irrelevant information
It seemed the clearest way to state the overall changes. What exactly would you call "irrelevant information"? Any time someone says something like that it throws up huge red flags in my mind since I often have a great deal of trouble knowing what other people consider relevant or irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
that also has unintended consequences. Specifically, since it's a spell (and for some reason specified as divine, despite the fact that Grace-Gifts aren't spellcasters at all),
Uh... I take it that by your definition Warlocks aren't spellcasters?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Chameleons can cast it, Archivists can learn it, and items can be made with it, and it's apparently on the Grace-Gift's spell list so they have a spell list despite not being spellcasters.
Forgot about those problems, despite having run into them with my Leap Dragoon. I should be able to copy-paste the countering phrases from that work to take care of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities are normally neither arcane nor divine.
Well, maybe technically not(never occurred to me to investigate the matter), but I would certainly call an SLA of a divine-only spell a "divine SLA" and I would say that Warlocks are Arcane casters built around SLAs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Only spells have that distinction. Does the note about saving throws (I think you meant save DCs?) also apply to the supernatural abilities (which don't normally have equivalent spell levels, instead normally having save DCs of 10 + 1/2 HD + ability modifier)?
Should be "saving throws against his abilities" or something along those lines.

And yes, those would apply to supernatural abilities... except that I am pretty sure that all their supernatural abilities are saveless since they don't target anyone per se.

*Checks to see if he gave any supernatural abilities spell levels.*
Huh... so I did!
Looks like I need to split Divine Protection in the same way I split Shield of the Soul where it is a Supernatural ability with a Spell-like ability that is so closely related that they are best sharing a heading (unless you really think that having more items on the table is a good thing).


EDIT: Added a small disclaimer in the first post after the link to the old thread.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:15 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
Garryl
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Yeah, sorry about that. I was a frustrated with something else and let it come out into my words. This should have been a much more helpful critique than it actually was. My apologies.

Quote:
I never said THAT. I said that one table wasn't worth the effort for the someone critiquing the class (or creating a character from scratch?) rather than leveling up in it... based on what Kane0 said in the previous thread and/or some PMs between us. With only one data-point on how to improve formatting, I went along with what he said to a certain degree (not to the point of changing the underlying mechanics to make the table easier to read).

Apparently you disagree?

Also, if I missed something and said such a thing in more than one place please point them out to me.
Looking it over again, my comment was indeed entirely about that line, I think. Regardless, it was unfair of me.

Regarding the class table, it could be a lot more clear by having less information. Specifically, most of that extra info in brackets can go. Bonus feats don't need to specify which list they can come from on the table. Most of the abilities don't need to give details when they are originally gained, and only need a very short summary of the changes at higher levels. Really, more of a reminder to a reader who knows the ability than even a summary. For example:

Spoiler


Quote:
Uh... I take it that by your definition Warlocks aren't spellcasters?
Nope. They are invokers. They have invocations (which are spell-like abilities, not spell). They do not have a spell list, but they do have an invocation list. They do have a caster level since their invocations are spell-like abilities, but that isn't a sufficient condition to be a "spellcaster". If I recall correctly (and I probably don't), Complete Arcane specifically defines them as not spellcasters, and instead provides exceptions to the normal rules that allows them (as invokers) to qualify for certain options that ordinarily only function for spellcasters (such as gaining a benefit from PrCs that advance spellcasting).

Quote:
Well, maybe technically not(never occurred to me to investigate the matter), but I would certainly call an SLA of a divine-only spell a "divine SLA" and I would say that Warlocks are Arcane casters built around SLAs.
Warlocks are neither arcane nor divine. They have a specific exception in their ability to cast invocations that causes their invocations to be affected by arcane spell failure, but that does not make them arcane. If I recall correctly (and, again, I probably don't) they can't even benefit from PrCs that specifically advance arcane spellcasting, only unqualified spellcasting.

Quote:
Forgot about those problems, despite having run into them with my Leap Dragoon. I should be able to copy-paste the countering phrases from that work to take care of that.
Or just don't define it as a new and distinct spell. For example:

Spoiler


For me, that's also a lot easier to understand, although at least some of that is because I wrote it.

Sorry again for my unhelpfulness earlier. Going to bed now, hopefully this makes up for some of it.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:45 AM   Top  -  End  -  #29
DracoDei
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Quote:
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Yeah, sorry about that. I was a frustrated with something else and let it come out into my words. This should have been a much more helpful critique than it actually was. My apologies.
I forgive you. (And I am tired, but not angry, as I write this so there may be errors).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Looking it over again, my comment was indeed entirely about that line, I think.
Good to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Regardless, it was unfair of me.
See above comment regarding forgiveness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Regarding the class table, it could be a lot more clear by having less information. Specifically, most of that extra info in brackets can go. Bonus feats don't need to specify which list they can come from on the table. Most of the abilities don't need to give details when they are originally gained, and only need a very short summary of the changes at higher levels. Really, more of a reminder to a reader who knows the ability than even a summary. For example:
Ok, now THIS is VERY helpful general theory, especially if it doesn't get contradicted by someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Spoiler
And this saves me a lot of work! I should wait until I am more awake to give a shot at double-checking it, and then quote-save the current table's post so I can have a back-up when I replace most of the tables with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Nope. They are invokers. They have invocations (which are spell-like abilities, not spell). They do not have a spell list, but they do have an invocation list. They do have a caster level since their invocations are spell-like abilities, but that isn't a sufficient condition to be a "spellcaster". If I recall correctly (and I probably don't), Complete Arcane specifically defines them as not spellcasters, and instead provides exceptions to the normal rules that allows them (as invokers) to qualify for certain options that ordinarily only function for spellcasters (such as gaining a benefit from PrCs that advance spellcasting).
Well, I actually want them to be able to get into most cleric/paladin PrCs as easily as possible, although how to have spell-casting advancement work with the class MIGHT be a challenge... I think a good start would be "each added caster level instead advances all spell-like abilities that never had a per-day limit as if it was a level of grace-gift, including granting access to new spell-like abilities, increasing caster level, and giving new options for abilities that advance with class level".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Warlocks are neither arcane nor divine. They have a specific exception in their ability to cast invocations that causes their invocations to be affected by arcane spell failure, but that does not make them arcane. If I recall correctly (and, again, I probably don't) they can't even benefit from PrCs that specifically advance arcane spellcasting, only unqualified spellcasting.
Yeah, that last bit proves it was a mistake in my book, and one I see no reason to repeat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Or just don't define it as a new and distinct spell. For example:

Spoiler
Could work... will have to look at it when I have my head more together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
For me, that's also a lot easier to understand, although at least some of that is because I wrote it.
Well, I will think about swapping this out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
Sorry again for my unhelpfulness earlier. Going to bed now, hopefully this makes up for some of it.
Yeah, tired as I write this too.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:48 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
DracoDei
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Stuff from DnD-Wiki IRC chat:
Spoiler



Garryl: Was working my way through the table you gave me, alphabetizing the abilities at each level (my fault they weren't, not your's) and making sure that nothing was left out. Everything was going 100% fine until 3rd level where I ran into some questions.

The first is that I replaced "Defensive Strike(Base Attack Bonus)" with "Defensive Strike(To-Hit)". This includes the charisma bonus in the concept, and also... well, phrasing anything in that ability in terms of base attack bonus was my way of stating things in the most simple way possible, rather than making the bit with the weird formula the main way of explaining the mechanics.

The other thing I did was follow you advice to the letter by changing "Enhanced Defensive Strike(Magic)" to simply "Enhanced Defensive Strike". This isn't the way the monk does it in the SRD though. Of course, that would argue against the whole idea of what you were saying about leaving out the baselines of things and only listing upgrades in parantheses, and we KNOW the table is overly wordy... although the alphabetization within each level may help.

What do people think?

I haven't gotten much past this point yet, but only due to being interrupted by the time-limits on a public terminal I am using at the moment.

EDIT: Have been moving forward with the alphabetizing part. When I got to 6th level I was uncertain if "+50% damage" was better than "level x1.5"...

Working copy of Garryl's suggested table that have alphabetized, and now need to check that everything that is in the main text is on it, and vice-versa.
Spoiler




Backups of tables I am probably going to remove from the table's post:

Base Attack Bonus, Saves, Bonus Feats and Passive and/or Strictly Out of Combat Abilities(Work in Progress)
Spoiler


Active and/or In Combat Abilities
Spoiler


COMPLETELY New Abilities by Level, Without Details on Upgrades/Sub-abilities Available(But includes all bonus-feat gains, even if they are for a degree (I to IX) that you already gained)
Spoiler



Table formatting suggestions (that turned into class tweak ideas and non-mechanic changing rewrites of ability descriptions) from Kane0
Spoiler
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Best homebrew:
Grace-Gift - Taking "Defender" to a whole other level.
Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as a Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread, including two new organs!
Filk: 4000 Years(to live) . . . . For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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