Really, I think people running TW games might want to consider making a rule to prevent stuff like this from happening. It makes no sense in the game for Gaul to suddenly decide "LOLZORS W3'R3 genocidal psychopaths!" It's stuff like this which also carries on into future games as well. It's a poor attempt at intimidating other players by saying 'if you do this to me in the next game too, I'll do the same'.
If a country is down and out, or a player wants to leave, I don't think there should be a red button to press,or at least have limits to it. Blowing up your own capital as the enemy forces breach the final defenses is one thing. Oh, we're upset so we're going to toss a WMD to anyone who's ever wrong us is entirely different.
THANK YOU! Yes... But, oh well, I suppose we'll work with what we have for now. It creates interesting scenarios for both RP fodder and fluff in general respects. Creative writing is always fun!
That said, while I'll admit I might have the Directorate use an atomic landmine or something like that if the situation is really grim defensively, I just don't see myself doing the "Mass nuclear strike on everyone! Kill everything!" option.
Edit: It wasn't the Soviets that demanded part of your land. We just wanted to get ahold of the minds that developed that Zombie Virus and have you pay reparations for your attempted espionage. Iberica were the ones that did the whole 'Give us Spain!'
Of course an easy way to prevent this is to simply not make it possible to burn stats to destroy someone else's stats. It would still be possible to make WMDs, but you couldn't instantly turn all your remaining stats into a giant bomb.
And if a country wants to spend all their time making massive stockpiles of WMDs, then it actually would be completely in character for them to go out with a final bang and hit everyone they hated.
Of course an easy way to prevent this is to simply not make it possible to burn stats to destroy someone else's stats. It would still be possible to make WMDs, but you couldn't instantly turn all your remaining stats into a giant bomb.
And if a country wants to spend all their time making massive stockpiles of WMDs, then it actually would be completely in character for them to go out with a final bang and hit everyone they hated.
A fair point. We could also institute the "Mad With Power" rule. Any time someone tries to nuke the world or launch global catastrophes, a subordinate-- in the last moments-- pops off the government's leader before he can doom millions of innocents. Said person then sues for peace with the country that was going to be targeted.
I couldn't really do the 'final bomb' thing even if I wanted, mainly because the point at which I give up is the point at which I have so little stats left, burning them all won't even affect anyone significantly.
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Originally Posted by lamech
Trusting Murska worked out great!
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Originally Posted by happyturtle
A Murska without lies is like a day without sunshine.
If it's any consolation, I am taking requests for songs.
Could you do something about the Soviet Directorate, maybe? Egotistical of me, I know, but I'm curious of other perceptions of them (besides "Those jerks that are part of that alliance and are gonna be beating up Gaul soon").
Could you do something about the Soviet Directorate, maybe? Egotistical of me, I know, but I'm curious of other perceptions of them (besides "Those jerks that are part of that alliance and are gonna be beating up Gaul soon").
Sure, I just got to find a song that I can fit into my picture of your nation.
Economic Pact isn't a military or even defensive treaty. I've stated my reasons for not rushing to aid the Gaul - they haven't done much to promote the interests of the EP or aid me, while inviting trouble.
Still, nations of EP like you more then Soviet Directorate & NRE, at least it was like that before the rage virus stuff. If you use your REP, you might convince them to aid you. Amurian Technocracy will follow the lead of the majority, unless we think it's really against our or Pact's interests.
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Magical Emperor Monkey. You have my vote.
I learned two things about Montgomery that day... ...The first was that his men would follow him off a cliff. The second was that he would lead them there.
Could you do something about the Soviet Directorate, maybe? Egotistical of me, I know, but I'm curious of other perceptions of them (besides "Those jerks that are part of that alliance and are gonna be beating up Gaul soon").
Project Earth is very, very wary of the Soviets. Most of what they see from the Directorate is proud showings of their latest military creations including the two abominations in space.
Still, the Soviets seem amiable towards Project Earth, thus they are content to voice their disapproval from time to time and hope to sway the Soviets with diplomacy if need be.
Project Earth is very, very wary of the Soviets. Most of what they see from the Directorate is proud showings of their latest military creations including the two abominations in space.
Still, the Soviets seem amiable towards Project Earth, thus they are content to voice their disapproval from time to time and hope to sway the Soviets with diplomacy if need be.
Thank you! In return:
The Directorate likes Project Earth as well, and is amiable for a reason. Project Earth have proven steady mediators and interested in world-spanning projects that help all nations. While the Directorate has been steadily building a military industrial complex, they're liable (pending how this all pans out) to start investing in some of Project Earth's large-scale Earth renewal and cultivation projects. Want to fire off some ideas back and forth via PM?
Well... Project Earth needs to finish up a few not-so world-saving technologies first. We'll see how progress goes after this turn. I figure things won't befreed up until the end of turn 12.
Well... Project Earth needs to finish up a few not-so world-saving technologies first. We'll see how progress goes after this turn. I figure things won't befreed up until the end of turn 12.
Fair enough! Mind if I fire the ideas off to ya anyways, just so we can hammer out some details ahead of time?
Actually, do you have MSN/an IM program in general? We could probably get stuff done 10x as fast than via PM.
See, as a member of the Economic Pact I would have helped Gaul if I was under the impression that you guys were allies. We've been very friendly all game, but we never did much cooperating or communicating that made me feel like allies. And the Economic Pact might use that name for communication, but it's not a military alliance. I've just cooperated with nations like China and Iran in a number of wars at this point. That's why we're allies. And it's important to not make yourself a liability either. It was not necessary at all for you to intervene in someone NRE had obviously been working on for years.
Thank you Daelrog for your kind words. And I know Thelonius talks in the threads more than I do (there's a reason for that), but people could also try talking to me regarding the Economic Pact. Carthage is your friend and way less of an evil mastermind than Amurian Technocracy.
Really, I think people running TW games might want to consider making a rule to prevent stuff like this from happening. It makes no sense in the game for Gaul to suddenly decide "LOLZORS W3'R3 genocidal psychopaths!" It's stuff like this which also carries on into future games as well. It's a poor attempt at intimidating other players by saying 'if you do this to me in the next game too, I'll do the same'.
If a country is down and out, or a player wants to leave, I don't think there should be a red button to press,or at least have limits to it. Blowing up your own capital as the enemy forces breach the final defenses is one thing. Oh, we're upset so we're going to toss a WMD to anyone who's ever wrong us is entirely different.
It is, and I think I'm never, *ever* going to run a TW after 1945 again, just to avoid ever dealing with nuclear weaponry. I mean, the Utopia Project was one thing (they'd fought a long war, been drained, and their remaining MIL wasn't as significant), but it's just plain petulant to fire off at the very first opportunity. I'll let this one go through since I don't like retroactive rules in any circumstance, but I am cutting the rules on stat burning from here on out. It's even worse since I should have realized going in that instituting that rule would have resulted in precisely this first-strike doctrine; it sure as hell did in actual history. The fact that I didn't may well still wreck the game, and I can't blame people for using the very rules I gave them, but we can at least prevent it from here on out.
Also, I think Turalisj, among other things, misread the rules on stat burning, so he's not going to get quite as much done as he clearly intended. Shame he just went with a "one-post-give-up" mentality; he actually could have done well by playing the diplomacy game, judging by the OOC comments.
I'm poor at arguments and making my point clearer than the other person. And I didn't want to spend the next few turns limping along as the Directorate and NRE went along grabbing everything I have. I'd rather just burn it to the ground and keep them from getting the spoils.
Could I have kept going? Sure. Would it have been worth it? Maybe, but it's too late now.
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Credit to AlterForm for the awesome Iroh avatar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golentan
What Yuki said.
Also, infernals are the only cool solaroids, so, just sayin'.*
*You are entitled to disagree. But to do so is wrong.
Yeah. If anything, I think nuclear strikes are something you should at least have to invest in, not just have the ability to spontaneously turn factories into nukes (or whatever the hell stat-burning is supposed to be ) Because burning stats to destroy stats completely wrecks the idea of a second strike doctrine and MAD.
It is, and I think I'm never, *ever* going to run a TW after 1945 again, just to avoid ever dealing with nuclear weaponry. I mean, the Utopia Project was one thing (they'd fought a long war, been drained, and their remaining MIL wasn't as significant), but it's just plain petulant to fire off at the very first opportunity. I'll let this one go through since I don't like retroactive rules in any circumstance, but I am cutting the rules on stat burning from here on out. It's even worse since I should have realized going in that instituting that rule would have resulted in precisely this first-strike doctrine; it sure as hell did in actual history. The fact that I didn't may well still wreck the game, and I can't blame people for using the very rules I gave them, but we can at least prevent it from here on out.
Also, I think Turalisj, among other things, misread the rules on stat burning, so he's not going to get quite as much done as he clearly intended. Shame he just went with a "one-post-give-up" mentality; he actually could have done well by playing the diplomacy game, judging by the OOC comments.
Mistral? Whatever happens to the Directorate, don't think for a second that it will 'wreck the game'. If there's one thing you may have noticed in my posts, it's that I love writing out a good story. So long as the Soviets have so much as 1 Econ and 1 Tech, I can still continue to try and write out a good story. I'm not sure quite what Gaul has in mind, but whatever it is, I'll love to play through it. Nuclear bombs? The Moscow Metro lives on! Antimatter? A desolate wasteland, without the central authority of Moscow, attempting to reunify in the wake of Gaul's attacks. Zombies? Oh my god yes ZOMBIES! I freak'n love the idea of Russians vs Zombies!
So... Yeah. Nothing to worry about, Mistral, whatever may happen to my guys. And if I end up weakened and another nation decides to take over my own? So be it. I'll keep writing until then. To be totally honest with you, I love this game. It's the one entertainment I've had all summer during my classes with any sort of consistent regularity and consistent quality. Don't think for a second you 'wrecked' the game! You just forced us all to improvise a bit more. :D
Am I the only one who doesn't know what stat burning is and why it leads to nuclear devastation. Am I guilty of it?
It's the rule where you can permanently destroy some of your stats to permanently destroy someone else's stats. It's supposed to represent using one-time weapons like nukes and whatnot. In this case, it means that people who think they are losing decide to go out in a blaze of glory and in dying do as much damage to their enemies as possible.
It's the rule where you can permanently destroy some of your stats to permanently destroy someone else's stats. It's supposed to represent using one-time weapons like nukes and whatnot. In this case, it means that people who think they are losing decide to go out in a blaze of glory and in dying do as much damage to their enemies as possible.
Yeah, I never used that rule. Not worth burning stats for results.
Edit: Mistral, you could always do alternate reality games where nuclear power was never invented.
Actually, burning stats is exactly as efficient as spending temporary stat points, since those temporary stat points can just be used to replace the stats you lost.
I can burn 30 t.stat points to deal an enemy 3 damage.
Or I can use 30 t.stat points to gain 3 stat points, and burn them all to deal 3 damage.
Regardless, I agree their should be a limit on the number of stat points that can be burnt in a turn.
As per request, sorta. A song about the Soviet Directorates most publicly known feature: Their military.
Soviet Nation's Army by Kiren of GITP
Re-written from Seven Nation Army by White Stripes
Spoiler
We are the fighting force.
Our Soviet Nation Army is on the attack.
We won't forfeit our force, fighting our battles with retort and flak.
And when we enter in the fight you won't forget.
Acting on orders coming through our power-armor headsets.
And the message coming through my mind says destroy every drone.
We have our soldiers bail out, orbit strikes will put them through hell.
Nothing they can do about it, neither the Gaul or Utopians.
And if we have missiles coming our way we're gonna return it to you.
Your going to hold your arms in fear because that's what they all do.
And the orders coming from to us are fear no man or drone.
We are the Directorate.
Bar-non, the perfect force of war.
Were gonna play our part, create the worlds largest army corp.
And we're heading we're heading we're heading to our rivals door.
All the worlds gonna heed our creed if they join in on the war.
And the pains coming from their gut say leave them alone
As per request, sorta. A song about the Soviet Directorates most publicly known feature: Their military.
Soviet Nation's Army by Kiren of GITP
Re-written from Seven Nation Army by White Stripes
Spoiler
We are the fighting force.
Our Soviet Nation Army is on the attack.
We won't forfeit our force, fighting our battles with retort and flak.
And when we enter in the fight you won't forget.
Acting on orders coming through our power-armor headsets.
And the message coming through my mind says destroy every drone.
We have our soldiers bail out, orbit strikes will put them through hell.
Nothing they can do about it, neither the Gaul or Utopians.
And if we have missiles coming our way we're gonna return it to you.
Your going to hold your arms in fear because that's what they all do.
And the orders coming from to us are fear no man or drone.
We are the Directorate.
Bar-non, the perfect force of war.
Were gonna play our part, create the worlds largest army corp.
And we're heading we're heading we're heading to our rivals door.
All the worlds gonna heed our creed if they join in on the war.
And the pains coming from their gut say leave them alone
Kiren? You can pick any lady you like in the Directorate. Even the Chairman's wife.
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) Because burning stats to destroy stats completely wrecks the idea of a second strike doctrine and MAD.
