Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Mystic Muse]

Originally Posted by Nightson

Spoiler

Zero unfortunately, the already spoiled cards don't leave a space for it in the name/number crunch.

Spoiler

Ah. Well, that's sad. On the bright side, that means my birds are open for a new casual deck I wanted to make anyway.

[DMofDarkness]

Originally Posted by Nightson

Spoiler

Zero unfortunately, the already spoiled cards don't leave a space for it in the name/number crunch.

Spoiler

They might reprint it in Sinker or Gatecrash... I refuse to believe that Birds won't show up during Ravnica block.

[Litewarior]

Spoiler

It seems that they are printing all the mana fixing stuff in the first two sets (Shocklands, gates, Chromatic Lantern), so I'm guessing birds will be in the last set, with some cool new flavor text based on [SPECULATION] the nature people that are trying to take down Ravnica [/SPECULATION]

[The Extinguisher]

Spoiler

We wont see Birds of Paradise. Because they've basically never been out of Standard and you need to shake things up sometime.

[Lord Seth]

At this point, I think to make Birds of Paradise's price drop you have to stop printing it.

[Squark]

Spoiler

Hmm... So, the card that makes dragon tokens isn't in the huge section of spoiled cards...

[tgva8889]

Spoiler

It was revealed, however:

Utvara Hellkite 6RR
Creature - Dragon
Flying
Whenever a Dragon you control attacks, put a 6/6 Red Dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
6/6

[Foeofthelance]

Spoiler

Guh. I want that dragon so badly.

[razark]

Wow. I used to play back in high school, almost 2 decades ago. Now my kids have discovered this game through the gamer's guild at my wife's college. They got a couple of sample decks, and really enjoyed it, so we've picked up a box of cards for them. It seems the game has changed since I left.

Looking through the cards, I've got some questions on how some things work:
Soulbond: This allows creatures to pair up and share abilities. Is a creature able to pair up with another creature with soulbond, or any other creature?
Planeswalkers: Last time I checked, the only planeswalkers were the players. Can someone explain, or point me to an explanation, how these work?
Double sided card: One of the cards had no back, but a creature on each side. I've seen reference to these types, but no explanation of what to do with them. Any input on this?

More general questions:
Is there a list of rules/resources available somewhere?
Is there a decent program for organizing collections of cards?
Any good tips for beginner players? I've had some experience, but it's been so long.
What should the ration of land to other cards be in a deck?

Thanks for any help you can bring to me.

[DMofDarkness]

Originally Posted by razark

Wow. I used to play back in high school, almost 2 decades ago. Now my kids have discovered this game through the gamer's guild at my wife's college. They got a couple of sample decks, and really enjoyed it, so we've picked up a box of cards for them. It seems the game has changed since I left.

Looking through the cards, I've got some questions on how some things work:
Soulbond: This allows creatures to pair up and share abilities. Is a creature able to pair up with another creature with soulbond, or any other creature?
Planeswalkers: Last time I checked, the only planeswalkers were the players. Can someone explain, or point me to an explanation, how these work?
Double sided card: One of the cards had no back, but a creature on each side. I've seen reference to these types, but no explanation of what to do with them. Any input on this?

Thanks for any help you can bring to me.

Well, I can't really help with your general questions, but I can help with these:
1. Soulbond creatures can bond with any creatures that are not currently soulbonded- that is, that is not already receiving Soulbond benefits from another creature. You can soulbond two creatures with Soulbond together, for instance, and they would both get the benefits of each's soulbond ability.
2. Planeswalkers: There was a whole story arc with the Mending and planeswalkers in general getting depowered, but here's how they work: On each, there is a number in the lower right hand corner. The planeswalker enters the battlefield with that many "Loyalty counters" on them. Each turn, including the turn that the planeswalker came into play, they can activate one ability of the planeswalkers at sorcery speed. To the right of each ability is a number- for example, on Garruk Wildspeaker, you have +1, -1, and -4. When you activate an ability, you alter Garruk's loyalty by that number- so, if you untap two lands, Garruk gets another loyalty counter, going up to 4. You can't remove more Loyalty counters than the planeswalker has- so, for instance, you can't activate Garruk's -4 ability when he has 3 counters on them. Then comes the odd part- they act sort of like other players. When creatures attack you, their owner can choose to have them attack a planeswalker you control instead- for example, your opponent's Shivan Dragon could attack your Garruk and deal no damage to you if its controller wishes it. However, you can still block for planeswalkers you control- you could still block the Shivan Dragon to save Garruk. Additionally, if a player would deal noncombat damage to you- like Lightning Bolt, and so on- they can choose to deal it to a Planeswalker you control instead. Finally, you can only have one Planeswalker of the same subtype on the battlefield at one time. So, you can't have both Garruk, Primal Hunter on the battlefield at the same time as you have Garruk Wildspeaker. They're both Garruk, and act like Legendary creatures, despite not having the same name.
3. Double Sided cards- cards with two faces. There are two ways to deal with those- one is that in Innistrad and Dark Ascension booster packs (The two sets that used double-faced cards), there are checklist cards with normal Magic backs that can be used in your deck. When you play the card, you just take the actual double-faced card out of wherever you're storing it, and put it on the battlefield. Alternatively, if you have sleeves that have an opaque back, you can just slip double sided cards in those, and then take them out and flip them when they transform (flip over).

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing: You might want to take a look at the value of your old cards, if you have any. Some of them are worth a lot, nowadays.

[Duos]

Soulbond allows you to pair it with any unpaired creature. "Unpaired" just means that it isn't already paired with another creature, so you can pair a creature with soulbond to a creature that doesn't have soulbond.

Planeswalker cards are a bit more complicated. Basically, they enter the battlefield with the number of loyalty counters specified in the lower right. Once per turn, at sorcery speed, you can use one of the planeswalker's abilities that you can pay for by adding or subtracting the number of loyalty counters indicated in the box on the left. You can't use an ability if you don't have enough loyalty counters. Planeswalkers can be attacked as if they were a player, so if you have a planeswalker, your opponent needs to decide which of their creatures are attacking who, although you still get to block regardless of who's getting attacked. Planeswalkers who take damage get that many loyalty counters removed, and if they have zero or less loyalty, they get put into the graveyard. If you cast a spell that deals damage to a player, you can choose to redirect the damage to ONE of their planeswalkers when the spell resolves, although you are still targeting the player and not actually the planeswalker.

The double-faced cards (DFCs) have one side with a mana cost and one without one. Anywhere except the battlefield, the card is treated as the the side WITH the mana cost. All DFCs have something that triggers their transformation, and when it transforms, you flip it over and it turns into whatever is on the back. If you want to put one in your deck, you need to use the checklist cards that are in most of the packs (just mark which one it is), or you can just use sleeves.

Basic and comprehensive rules can be found here.

If you want to organize your old cards, you can do what I did: Cry bitter tears that you didn't have a better filing system when you were younger, then spend three months sorting them all. (I don't really have a good answer for you here, although I wish you luck)

If you're just getting started, I would first just learn the basics: Steps and phases of each turn (untap, upkeep, draw, etc.), when you can cast things(the stack is your friend!), what common keywords (like flying and protection) do, and some common pitfalls to avoid (like-mana is land, planeswalkers are players, etc.).

A good land/non-land ratio differs from deck to deck. Aggressive decks with low curves or ways to ensure they can still cast their threats when low on mana can get away with running less, in the neighborhood of 17-19, and control decks that have good card advantage and NEED to hit all their land drops often play more, in the neighborhood of 24-26. Most decks usually have somewhere between 21-23 lands, though.

[razark]

Originally Posted by DMofDarkness

EDIT: Oh, one more thing: You might want to take a look at the value of your old cards, if you have any. Some of them are worth a lot, nowadays.

Thanks, I will parse the rest of the info later, but as for the value of old cards: they were worth one bottle of Jack Daniel's. I had a shoebox full that I got rid of my first semester of college, since they weren't doing me any good. Never expected them to, either.

Edit: Ok, I've had a chance to read through your replies. That cleared things up for me. I'm sure I'll probably run into some more questions as I look deeper into things and find more stuff added during my absence.

[Bucky]

Originally Posted by razark

Soulbond:
Double sided card:

Looks like you got a box of the wrong set. I'd have recommended Magic 2013 instead.

More general questions:
Is there a list of rules/resources available somewhere?
Is there a decent program for organizing collections of cards?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Default.aspx has all the cards in it, and the 'Display Rulings' link at the bottom should take care of a significant portion of your rules questions.

Any good tips for beginner players? I've had some experience, but it's been so long.

Bashing preconstructed decks into each other is a good place to start; watching online videos of experts playing is a reasonable introduction to more advanced play. At some point you also want to start reading strategy articles.

What should the ration of land to other cards be in a deck?

That depends on how expensive its cards are, and how much colored mana they require. If everything is the same color and costs 2 mana or less, you can get away with 18 land. A more typical 2-color deck that wants to play its 4-mana spells on turn 4 most of the time will want 24 land; if any of its spells are more than half one color, it also wants some land that works for both colors like Evolving Wilds or the color pair's Glacial Fortress equivalent. (all out of 60, of course)

[Forrestfire]

Spoiler

So what are people's thoughts on Golgari Charm?

Golgari Charm GB
Instant
Choose one - All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn; or destroy target enchantment; or regenerate each creature you control.

This card in general seems ridiculously strong, especially in modern. I can definitely think of a few decks that like making their stuff unkillable for a bit and/or wiping mana dorks tokens or fae...

[Sohala]

*Brings news*

[DMofDarkness]

Originally Posted by Forrestfire

Spoiler

So what are people's thoughts on Golgari Charm?

Golgari Charm GB
Instant
Choose one - All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn; or destroy target enchantment; or regenerate each creature you control.

This card in general seems ridiculously strong, especially in modern. I can definitely think of a few decks that like making their stuff unkillable for a bit and/or wiping mana dorks tokens or fae...

Spoiler

To me, it looks over-hyped. Not many decks run ridiculous enchantments, most Wraths in Modern don't allow Regeneration (Gifts for Final Judgement, Hallowed Burial, Wrath of God, and Day of Judgement, anyone?), and all creatures getting -1/-1 is not actually that good. Cower in Fear didn't really do anything to the format, and while the other options are nice, I don't really think that it's quite at the ridiculous level. Wrap in Vigor was subpar, a bad Erase is subpar, and Cower in Fear is subpar- I just don't get what the hype is. I can see it being useful for the utility, like it's supposed to be- niche case against unbuffed Spirit tokens in Standard, getting rid of Knights of Glory, occasionally acting as a bit of a buffer, getting rid of an Intangible Virtue, and so on make it a nice utility card/combat trick, but in the end of the day it isn't as stupid as people seem to be making it out to be. I'd give it 4 stars as a solid card, and probably run 2-4 if I ever go Golgari, but it really isn't as good as people keep saying it is...

[tgva8889]

Spoiler

Golgari Charm is incredibly good in Zombies. It beats Oblivion Ring/Detention Sphere and Supreme Verdict, which are going to be some of the most valuable weapons against them, and the majority of their creatures have more than 1 toughness so Golgari Charm just kills Gravecrawlers and Blood Artists. The other two modes are, however, of more value in terms of utility. It seems like quite a useful card for them to have in their toolbox.

[Mystic Muse]

Originally Posted by Sohala

*Brings news*

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I don't really care one way or the other about Kokusho all that much.

I don't think I agree with the decision to ban Primeval Titan in Commander.

[Lord Seth]

Wait, what? I thought bans were announced on September 20? Isn't it a bit early?

[tgva8889]

It's the 19th, so it's close enough and Sheldon has a weekly column on StarCity today.

[Mystic Muse]

Anybody got some advice for my casual Tribal Eldrazi deck? Such as best colors to go with it, or should it remain entirely colorless, since there's enough affordable colorless mana acceleration anyway (Palladium myr, Cloudpost, Eldrazi Temple, Sol Ring, Everflowing Chalice, Semblance anvil, large amounts of others)? So far for it I have

2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (Not sure if I want to put the money down for another)
2 All is dust
1 It that Betrays
Other more common Eldrazi (Ulamog's crusher, Pathrazer of Ulamog)

I may have found an Ulamog for a decent price too. Anybody know what "#GIV" means?

Also, what's the best colorless acceleration for this deck without spending a large amount of money?

[Lord Seth]

Wonder if we'll see an Earthcraft unban this time around.

I mean, I doubt we will so soon after another unbanning...but it's still possible, and it's probably next on the list after Land Tax.

[DMofDarkness]

Originally Posted by Mystic Muse

Anybody got some advice for my casual Tribal Eldrazi deck? Such as best colors to go with it, or should it remain entirely colorless, since there's enough affordable colorless mana acceleration anyway (Palladium myr, Cloudpost, Eldrazi Temple, Sol Ring, Everflowing Chalice, Semblance anvil, large amounts of others)? So far for it I have

2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (Not sure if I want to put the money down for another)
2 All is dust
1 It that Betrays
Other more common Eldrazi (Ulamog's crusher, Pathrazer of Ulamog)

I may have found an Ulamog for a decent price too. Anybody know what "#GIV" means?

Also, what's the best colorless acceleration for this deck without spending a large amount of money?

I used to play a Tribal Eldrazi deck, and I went with R/G. Red mostly for burn and for Brood Birthing, Green for Overgrown Battlements and Kozilek's Predator. I saw some successful decks back in the day put in Pelakka Wurm for the lifegain on a huge body, and Crystal Ball was used for dig.

Since it's casual, I recommend Soul Foundry in the shell. Popping out tons of Predators or Overgrown Battlements every turn leads to getting ALL THE MANA more often than you'd expect...

[Landis963]

Spoiler

Story of RtR: So who wants to bet that Jace's fingerprints are all over the Interlocus? (That would be the giant meta-project that Niv-Mizzet is currently working on)

[Mystic Muse]

Originally Posted by DMofDarkness

I used to play a Tribal Eldrazi deck, and I went with R/G. Red mostly for burn and for Brood Birthing, Green for Overgrown Battlements and Kozilek's Predator. I saw some successful decks back in the day put in Pelakka Wurm for the lifegain on a huge body, and Crystal Ball was used for dig.

Alright. I've got 3 Rootbound Crags and 1 Copperline Gorge, so that'll work. I've got 2 Vexing Devils (Hoping to make it four) and 4 lightning bolts I could throw in for a burn aspect, plus 3 Brimstone volleys.

Since it's casual, I recommend Soul Foundry in the shell. Popping out tons of Predators or Overgrown Battlements every turn leads to getting ALL THE MANA more often than you'd expect...

Alright. I'll keep this in mind.

[Meta]

Originally Posted by Mystic Muse

Alright. I've got 3 Rootbound Crags and 1 Copperline Gorge, so that'll work. I've got 2 Vexing Devils (Hoping to make it four) and 4 lightning bolts I could throw in for a burn aspect, plus 3 Brimstone volleys.



Alright. I'll keep this in mind.

Don't put in the devils. If you want burn in a ramp deck it's because it's a cheap way to get rid of the little creatures that threaten to take away your 20 before your drop a monster. Them being at 6 or 2 will often be irrelevant if you just made them sac their board.

[Lord Seth]

Never play Vexing Devil in a deck where you wouldn't want to run Lava Spike.

[Mystic Muse]

Originally Posted by Lord Seth

Never play Vexing Devil in a deck where you wouldn't want to run Lava Spike.

I never got this argument. I don't see them as being remotely the same thing, or being things you'd necessarily want in the same deck.

Originally Posted by Meta

Don't put in the devils. If you want burn in a ramp deck it's because it's a cheap way to get rid of the little creatures that threaten to take away your 20 before your drop a monster. Them being at 6 or 2 will often be irrelevant if you just made them sac their board.

I just like the devils which is why I'm including them at the moment. I'll probably take them out eventually, and they may not even make it into the final deck. I don't know at the moment, since I don't have the cases to build the deck right now anyway.

[DMofDarkness]

Originally Posted by Mystic Muse

I never got this argument. I don't see them as being remotely the same thing, or being things you'd necessarily want in the same deck.

I just like the devils which is why I'm including them at the moment. I'll probably take them out eventually, and they may not even make it into the final deck. I don't know at the moment, since I don't have the cases to build the deck right now anyway.

I'm going to back everyone up on this- Vexing Devils isn't the best card for this deck. Vexing Devils wants the opponents to be on a clock, so either option hurts. Eldrazi Ramp is either playing enormous creatures that make the Devils look like small fries in comparison, or not really having a clock to make the decision to pay 4 life a big one.

As for cards I would recommend for this deck... Ancient Stirrings is a big one. Find a Land, Eldrazi, Sol Ring for G? Seems good. Staggershock and Arc Trail are also good ones- they facilitate powerful plays to help cripple your opponent. Shoot their beater(s) and/or dork(s), giving yourself enough time to stabilize behind Overgrown Battlements and chump blockers. And then suddenly Ulamog/Flying Spaghetti Monster.

One final bit of tech that I hadn't really considered before seeing a friend's deck was Battle Ramparts. Aside from synergizing with the Battlements well (both defenders, can turn a newly played Battlements into a ritual effect), Wizards of the Coast notably did not design Eldrazi with Haste in mind. Casting Emrakul and getting 2 swings with it is just silly. Casting an Ulamog to blow up their power permanent, swing in for Annihilation, and force the opponent to block or take 11 in one turn can really do a number on most opponents...

[9mm]

Originally Posted by Sohala

*Brings news*

noted... and promptly ignored. Simply put the problem they are trying to solve is the simple fact is Green gets the mana accelerators; banning out the favorite staple doesn't mean anything. What's next; Divining top bans?